CJ update

[berylayn]

just got caught up on this thread...congrats!!!

I was hoping to see pics at the end, but I guess they have not been posted yet.

I'll be anxiously awaiting the photos.

 

[marianjela]

Originally Posted by CJandBilly

Hey Sam,
CJ and Billy's mom is an orange and white stray cat. I believe their father to be a smokey gray cat. (He's the only tomcat I know of, and we saw them, P.S.

) I was told by someone on TCS, that if this is true, CJ being a white cat is extremely rare. They said some way to tell, with CJ's kittens, if she is this rare type. I wonder, could she be rare like they said? Not that it matters to me... I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Hey Cassie, I've posted on this topic on your other thread, but I'd be interested to see what others think about this as well as I find these genetics all-too-addicting. Like a big ol' puzzle!

I've been figuring the probabilites for Willow's kits and even found this to be the perfect time to teach my daughters!

I could've been evil and just bet them on what colors they thought they would be without letting them know I knew a secret ;-)

With adopting Willow from the pound, I have no idea what her parents looked like, but I can say this much for certain since she is a red female -- her daddy was orange (or cream) (with or without white) (unless of course, like in your case, the dad was really white but masking the orange gene) and her mom also carried the red gene. At any rate, I know that Willow is homozygous red (double dominant - OO), just like your red tabby female and that (unless crossed with a white cat) all her kits will have red.

 

[charcoal]

Congrats on the new ones!

 

[sharky]

congrates

 

[andeshan]

So thats how it works lol. Samona is a Turkish Angora which means she is dominate color gene in the pool. Although more Turkish angora breeders are breeding orange and white angoras. I have my 4 week old babies 1 pure white, 2 orange and white with masks, and 2 white with a single black spot on head. I could have pure bred kittens and not know it lol but unlikely since all the information I got is why Samona went to the pound.

By the Way Congrats to CJ, Billy and Grandma on the new babies. Alot of people have been waiting and reading this threat for so long it is like they are part of our own family. Do keep us posted.

 

[wellingtoncats]

Originally Posted by CJandBilly

Hey Sam,
CJ and Billy's mom is an orange and white stray cat. I believe their father to be a smokey gray cat. (He's the only tomcat I know of, and we saw them, P.S.

) I was told by someone on TCS, that if this is true, CJ being a white cat is extremely rare. They said some way to tell, with CJ's kittens, if she is this rare type. I wonder, could she be rare like they said? Not that it matters to me... I'm just curious.

Thanks!

Hi there,

I'm pretty sure it is impossible for a Red Bicolor and a Smoke cat to give birth to a white kitten. It is possible however that she mated with more then one cat, and that's why you got a white-

Sam

 

[nano]

Well, glad to hear your cat safely delivered three kittens. Hope all is well!

 

[caterpillar]

Thanks for the genetics lesson!

I would love to know how many feral or stray cats are roaming about in my backwooded area and how they are related. The white/grey patched cat that followed Mooie back could very well be related to Punky or even our lost Mysty cat.

The easy genetics is Mysty. He was a grey tabby with a white locket and white tummy. Momcat was all white and the Dad a gray tabby. The other sibling was solid white. There was no red in that litter.

After we took in Punky, my hubby spotted a cat that looked just like her only a bit larger that was being chased away by Mooie.

We've also noticed two cats each having a white leg and we call them "Shed cat" and "Shed cat imposter." Shed cat's a brown tabby with white paws, a white leg, and a white neck and Shed cat imposter has the same white leg but is all grey. All of these outside cats have small ears like Punky. They could all be related.

Can torties have tabbies? Can tabbies have torties?

When is Willow giving birth?

Sorry for all of those questions.

 

[mom of 10 cats]

<<Can torties have tabbies? Can tabbies have torties?>>

Torties can have tabbies, I know for a fact. Lilith is a tortie, and Blondie, Jules, Pan, and Silver are tabbies. Max is a dilute tortie, Poly a blue polydactyl.

 

[marianjela]

Originally Posted by Mom of 10 Cats

<<Can torties have tabbies? Can tabbies have torties?>>

Torties can have tabbies, I know for a fact. Lilith is a tortie, and Blondie, Jules, Pan, and Silver are tabbies. Max is a dilute tortie, Poly a blue polydactyl.

...and torties that are also tabby are sometimes called Torbies

The tabby gene, the color genes and even the dilution genes are all separate enities to be considered when figuring color and type. Even the Polydactyl gene.

Which by-the-way I love! I want a poly so bad!!! I envy you Momof10! We used to have a poly, in fact he was also blue (gray) and passed away about 3 years ago. We got him when he was just a kit. A little boy was walking around with a wagon full of kittens and he was the only poly in the bunch! We fell instantly in love - only then we didnt know his "condition" had a name - LOL - I swear that cat thought he was a dog

 

[marianjela]

Originally Posted by caterpillar

Thanks for the genetics lesson!

When is Willow giving birth?

Sorry for all of those questions.

Oh Caterpillar dont be sorry, I love the questions, helps keep me on my toes and keeps me refreshed.
A gray cat is actually a black cat with the dilution gene. The dilution gene is a recessive gene, so any cat that shows (genotype) gray or cream even, has the double recessive gene (indicated as dd) and will pass one of them on to thier children. So they will be carriers. BUT, if the other parent doesnt carry the dilution gene, the baby will be born with full density, ie. black, brown, red, etc.

The white 'spotting' or bi-color (like I said earlier) is a whole other consideration, called the piebald gene (indicated with SS, Ss, or ss). The white spotting is dominant, and generally (it is my understanding anyway - someone correct me if I'm wrong - from what I've read) a cat with with a double domintant gene (SS) will have more white (like a Van or Harlequin) than a heterozygous (Ss) cat.

There are three coat colors: black, chocolate, and cinnamon. All cats carry one of these three colors. If it also has the dilution gene then it becomes: blue (gray) lilac or fawn.

If the cat carries the Red gene (O-) it will override the color, if it is Male is will be red, if it is female, it will be Tortie, or Red if it is homozygous red (OO) since the red gene is sex-liked, which I'm sure you know...

Red mixed with the dilution gene is cream. A cat without the red gene is (oo) a non-red carrier (homozygous non-orange)

And an all-white coat (W-) masks all colors - including red. But still, under that mask, is thier genetic color - or what they would pass onto their off-spring. And how Cassie got her red female. Billy-cat is Red, and the mom is White carrying the orange gene. So from this we know CJ is NOT homozygous white, otherwise ALL her kittens would be born white regardless.

All these things together is what desides if it is cream, tortie, gray, bi-color, calico... whatever. It's basically a combination of a few basic things.

Oh well, I guess I've gone on enough... Sorry if it is too much information, I can get carried away sometimes!

Anymore questions just ask, or even PM me, beleive me, I love this stuff, it's getting someone that cares to listen that's the difficult part

By the way, we're expecting Willow to give birth any day now. I was hoping for it to be over this weekend, mostly so I could sleep in the next day if I had to be up all night

Willow is a homozygous red, no white, long-haired cat. So she is OOwwllD-
remember an orange female is homozygous. No white is a recessive, so we know she is homo-z for this also. She is long-haired, which is also recessive and indicated with the ll. She is not diluted so we know that she has the dominant (D) gene, but we can not tell if she is a dilution carrier. If she were to have a cream kitten then we could know for sure that she does. We dont know what color she carries under the orange. If she has a tortie, we can take a guess. All this said, we dont know who the father was, so the kittens are a bit of a guess. Though we know, unless the father was white, that they will all be red or tortie or a variation of...

See, I told you... I really get carried away, my hubby thinks I'm obsessed! Sorry if you're still reading this mess

 

[mandi18]

congrats on the kittys!!!!!!!!! i gots a Q for anybody who can answer me. if my cat breed w/ a fluffly blk cat,a white a silver tabby cat, and a silver tabby cat. what color kittens would she have? this is my cat

 

[andeshan]

More than likely you would have a mix of calico (grey calicos and Black calicos) torties and tabby's. If I remember correctly Calico is a very dominate gene in colors except when it comes to males. Although with a solid black or white you might get a tuxedo pattern.

I have been privilaged to 3 male calicos at one time (a father and 2 sons) the father and one son were calico (brown, black, grey and white) with tabby stripped tails the other son was a brown tortieshell calico with white chest.

I do want to say if your pretty kitty is not purebred then you might consider getting her fixed though. Just because you would like to have a litter with her might not be a great idea. Many of those mixed breed kittens don't find homes and well go to pounds or dropped in country or even killed. If you are wanting a nice kitten you might check here on the site for the kitten of your dreams.

 

[marianjela]

Originally Posted by Andeshan

I do want to say if your pretty kitty is not purebred then you might consider getting her fixed though. Just because you would like to have a litter with her might not be a great idea. Many of those mixed breed kittens don't find homes and well go to pounds or dropped in country or even killed. If you are wanting a nice kitten you might check here on the site for the kitten of your dreams.

I second this... your cat is very beautiful, but there are still a lot of unknowns.

From what I can tell, your cat carries the [partial] genetic makeup llOoB-S-D-

which basically means, ll: she is long-haired, Oo: she's a tortie, B-: her base color is black (but you don't know what her second allele is), S-: she has white, which makes her the 'calico' (but again, you don't know whether this is homozygous or hetero) D-: she is full density, or no dilution (not gray or cream).

With all these unknowns, it is hard to say what kind of kits you can end up with, add to this she was mated to not one, but 3(!) toms....

the black tom who is long-haired, mixed with your cat, would return all long-haired kittens. Disregarding the unknown alleles, you could get a 50/50 mix of black kittens and calico females/orange males. The tom is solid black, no white spotting, he will pass this on to his kittens. Depending on whether your cat carries the recessive no-white spotting gene or not will dictate whether the kits will have white. If she is Ss; then they you may get solids, but with all the white your cat has, I would venture to guess that she is homozygous or SS, and you will ALWAYS get kittens with white. If BOTH of the parents carry the recessive dilution gene, then the kittens could also be gray. Or cream/dilute torties.

But since she was also mated with the 'silver' cats, you would not know for certain where the gray is coming from.... You know that one cat can produce kittens from multiple toms in the same litter....
The 'silver' cats are basically black with the homozygous dilution gene. Again, if the mother carries the recessive gene, then she could have a gray kit, if not, she will ALWAYS have full-density colors, ie. black, orange, etc. You didn't say whether the last 2 toms were short-haired, I assume they are, then you may get short-haired kits as well. The silver-with-white tom is the same as the first, but since both mom and dad carry the piebald gene, the chances of getting a bi-color cat increases.

See, there is a lot to consider, and not just looks but health and tempermant too, which is exactly why breeding should be left to 'professionals'. BTW - I do not breed animals, I'm just the run-of-the-mill pet owner who happens to have a passion for genetics!

At any rate, I hope you find appropriate homes for your wee ones, maybe you should start to find homes for them before they even arrive, and please do not place a free-kittens ad in the paper as you never know what kind of person could show up for your babes, and good luck with Mikayla and her kits!

 

[tigerlilys momm]

No offense, this is all very interesting... But isn't this all suppose to be about CJ and her babies??? I really like hearing about genetics and would love for you guys to keep this forum going but we haven't heard about Cassie lately and I wanna know how her cat and kittens are doing. Let me know if you make another thread!

 

[marianjela]

Originally Posted by TigerLilys Momm

No offense, this is all very interesting... But isn't this all suppose to be about CJ and her babies??? I really like hearing about genetics and would love for you guys to keep this forum going but we haven't heard about Cassie lately and I wanna know how her cat and kittens are doing. Let me know if you make another thread!

Well, TigerLilysMom, it started out with Cassie asking a question about her kittens and parents, and CJ's mom and dad and kinda steam-rolled from there. If I knew how to break this into another thread, I would. Sorry for taking up Cassie's thread... But yep -- I'm waiting for news too! and for pictures!

 

[lotsacats]

Awww, three beautiful babies! Can't wait to see some pictures!

 

[gilly]

Congratulations CJ! I think that you have had us all on edge waiting for your baby kittes to be born lol

 

[cjandbilly]

It's no problem... I asked the question about genetics, and I'm glad everyone got something out of it.

CJ is doing great. Getting annoyed! LOL! I've named them all. The white one is Al, the orange female is Porky, and the orange male is Limeny. I'm very worried about Limeny, and I'm not sure he's gonna make it. He's breathing abnormally, dehydrated, and I can't get him to eat, he's extremely lethargic, and has a heart rate of about 90 BPM, when a cat's heart rate is supposed to be greater than 200 BPM, according to my veterinary manual. And now, he's cold to the touch. I've tried keeping him warm, making him nurse, stimulating him, and nothing works. All that can work now is prayer, and I ask for everyone prayers, please! I'm so very worried about my little Limeny, and all that can help him now, is prayers, so, please, please, please, pray for my Limeny!

Thank-you!
Cassie & CJ & Billy

 

[ali012281]

Cassie, have you contacted your vet about little Limeny? Maybe you could hand feed him?