New kittens, vomiting and coccidia

[GenCat]

I have never used them for my own cats, but, adding some lamb heart chunks could work if lamb is a protein she tolerates. It depends on your ick factor though as dicing that up can be....
If MPC is out of something I need, I also use Hare-Today.com. They are in PA, the owners are wonderful and I'm very happy with the company. They offer a lot of boneless ground meats that do nicely if I need to dilute the bone content in any grind.
Both companies offer fine and course grinds. I don't use the course grinds for my cats, just the fine grinds, but YMMV.

I’ve always considered myself squeamish, then my cats needed raw food and all that went out a window lol I usually wear gloves when handling the more gross meats since the feeling of it is worse than visual for me. I think the only place I draw the line is tripe, if I ever feed them that it will come pre ground only I always have the option of my iron stomach husband as well, but he’s not all that good with a knife lol. Well meat shears would be an option for him though

I got all my organ meats from hare today (was trying to match proteins I can buy locally), loved their followup emails and reading about how they run the company. Much respect for them.

Is it even safe for a cat to eat course grinds? The only one I would even consider that with would be my big boy cause he seems built for it but large bone shards scare me a bit, grind that stuff down lol

 

[GenCat]

LiLi report. Yesterday I attempted to give her Cerenia in a pill capsule again and she spat it back at me at least 10 times, half way through that I had to get a new pill capsule because the first one started melting. No matter what we tried (pill popper, husband holding her, etc) she managed to spit it out. I even managed to get it on the very back of her tongue but she was just like PTEWY and back on the table it went. It was super stressful so finally I gave up. She's been doing well on the lamb, if she wants to be vomit-y then so be it.

Her meal tonight after I got back from work she ate a bit and ran around playing before getting in my lap. She was fine for a bit then boarded the struggle bus. Thankfully she got off at the very next stop (5 mins later she was back to normal). But then she GOT BACK ON. Girl quit riding the struggle bus, just stop. Anyway she still didn't throw up just a couple burps and lip licking. I took the opportunity while she was feeling better to trick her into eating her Cerenia in a bit of pill pocket. I guess that still works better I just need to use it as treats more often so she doesn't get suspicious of the horrible tasting ones.

I also bought some rendered duck fat (100% fat no additives) which I am going to refrigerate and hopefully it will congeal enough to coat a pill. Only reason I'm doing this is to have a better alternative to the pill pockets rather questionable ingredient list since it could contribute to nausea as well (it has chicken and other things). Even though I do have some ones that I got from the vet with much better ingredients it's just peanut butter flavor which I am not sure whee one will appreciate lol

Sometimes I feel like we need a separate section in "cat health" for "Ongoing novels about my cat's chronic condition".

 

[Kwik]

I believe Ive mentioned this before,maybe not here so I'll offer the suggestion anyway

Cerenia can be made into a transdermal compound- I'm sure your Vet works with a Compound pharmacy so they can send over the script- it's a little expensive but sure worth it imo

Here's some info on transdermal cerenia if you'd like the info
Evaluation of the efficacy of transdermal administration of maropitant in managing vomiting in cats

You know my Graycie gives me the same exhausting routine as your LiLi when it comes to meds and so I always explore easier applications for her - I've used the Cernia transdermal compound and it worked well...... with Graycie I also had all those problems with giving her anti- histamines which could not be made into a transdermal application so I was ready to give up until my Vet found a transdermal for humans with a different dosage and we were able to find one with a proper dosage for cats.....unfortunately it turned out to not be allergies but thsts another story for another time

Perhaps you can try that as an option that would elimate one issue,the stress for both you and LiLi at medication time

 

[GenCat]

I believe Ive mentioned this before,maybe not here so I'll offer the suggestion anyway

Cerenia can be made into a transdermal compound- I'm sure your Vet works with a Compound pharmacy so they can send over the script- it's a little expensive but sure worth it imo

Here's some info on transdermal cerenia if you'd like the info
Evaluation of the efficacy of transdermal administration of maropitant in managing vomiting in cats

You know my Graycie gives me the same exhausting routine as your LiLi when it comes to meds and so I always explore easier applications for her - I've used the Cernia transdermal compound and it worked well...... with Graycie I also had all those problems with giving her anti- histamines which could not be made into a transdermal application so I was ready to give up until my Vet found a transdermal for humans with a different dosage and we were able to find one with a proper dosage for cats.....unfortunately it turned out to not be allergies but thsts another story for another time

Perhaps you can try that as an option that would elimate one issue,the stress for both you and LiLi at medication time

Thank you for the refresher on that! I'll look into it but I'm unsure if I can afford it right now with all the upcoming specialist bills. I also noticed a flavored liquid compound, which was comically "marshmallow" flavor

 

[iPappy]

Thank you for the refresher on that! I'll look into it but I'm unsure if I can afford it right now with all the upcoming specialist bills. I also noticed a flavored liquid compound, which was comically "marshmallow" flavor

There have been a few other members here who have questioned the "marshmallow" flavor of compounded medications. I've never given my cats marshmallows, so I have no idea what they would think of that!

 

[Kwik]

Thank you for the refresher on that! I'll look into it but I'm unsure if I can afford it right now with all the upcoming specialist bills. I also noticed a flavored liquid compound, which was comically "marshmallow" flavor

The marshmallow flavor additive seems to go over the best and any cat I've ever had compounds formulated for did not like the fish flavored believe it or not nor the bacon- the marshmallow for some reason has always been my " go to"- I try hard to find unflavored but that's nearly impossible with medications as something has to mask the medicinal taste- even the liquid supplements I use I get the " marshmallow "

 

[GenCat]

There have been a few other members here who have questioned the "marshmallow" flavor of compounded medications. I've never given my cats marshmallows, so I have no idea what they would think of that!

After thinking about it it's probably a dog thing. Like how all the pill pockets have a peanut butter flavor that's for dogs but with cats tacked on as a "well maybe they'll eat it too" lol. Update: I stand corrected! Kwik has the insider info that cats love marshmallow flavor!

I went to the store today to get ground lamb since I am almost out and it's a bit of a drive for the chunks. Got there and apparently it all expired yesterday. They hadn't ordered it because it sold so badly. Well I fixed that very quickly by letting them know I will be buying it there often in the future so they'll have more by Wednesday. Noticed that they do have ground veal though so that will be on the menu in the future lol

 

[Kwik]

After thinking about it it's probably a dog thing. Like how all the pill pockets have a peanut butter flavor that's for dogs but with cats tacked on as a "well maybe they'll eat it too" lol. Update: I stand corrected! Kwik has the insider info that cats love marshmallow flavor!

I went to the store today to get ground lamb since I am almost out and it's a bit of a drive for the chunks. Got there and apparently it all expired yesterday. They hadn't ordered it because it sold so badly. Well I fixed that very quickly by letting them know I will be buying it there often in the future so they'll have more by Wednesday. Noticed that they do have ground veal though so that will be on the menu in the future lol

Way back when I first started using the Compound Veternsry pharmacy my Vet always asked what flavor I wanted and he always recommended the marshmallow and said mostly all his patients seems to like that one- I said" Marshmallow"? Who came up with that"? Huh? He told me he had no idea who would have thought to try using it in the first place but dogs seem to like the bacon & cats the marshmallow- I was happy enough to get liquid rather than pills so I did try all the flavors & by gosh,he was right....so thanks to my Vet or I probably would never had tried it

 

[GenCat]

Ok so looking at the Hare Today calculator, but a bit confused. I always hear that 10% bone is too much but their calculator aims for that much even for cats. Ignoring that, is this a good combination?

Update:
Wow, I expected kittens to need more but that is a LOT.

Safe Raw Meaty Bones for Cats & Kittens

Raw feeding guide on safe raw meaty bones for adult cats and kittens to provide essential calcium in a home prepared diet.

perfectlyrawsome.com

 

[Kwik]

iPappy could probably best answer

Not my area of expertise

 

[iPappy]

Truthfully, I've never used a calculator. I kind of wing it, and if their stools are too hard, I add less bone and a bit more organs, and if it's too soft, I add more bone and a bit less organ meats. Luckily, all my cats are around the same age and seem to have very similar needs so one batch seems to work for everyone. I cheated a bit with Lila as a kitten, she was separated from the "big cats" when she was a baby and she was fed her few meals per day but had kitten food available too. With LiLi, that might be difficult since she has had so many tummy issues.

 

[GenCat]

Truthfully, I've never used a calculator. I kind of wing it, and if their stools are too hard, I add less bone and a bit more organs, and if it's too soft, I add more bone and a bit less organ meats. Luckily, all my cats are around the same age and seem to have very similar needs so one batch seems to work for everyone. I cheated a bit with Lila as a kitten, she was separated from the "big cats" when she was a baby and she was fed her few meals per day but had kitten food available too. With LiLi, that might be difficult since she has had so many tummy issues.

That’s honestly really impressive that you’ve learned to balance it based on that. Will keep that in mind.

We’re going on a long drive into the city tomorrow to an Asian market and pet store that has a lot of different premade raw blends available so hopefully I can pickup most of what we need for the next few months as well as see if there’s something more balanced for kittens that agrees with her tummy.

Also noticed that Sam’s Club sells lamb leg roast for a really good price so will probably pick that up and spend a day freezer prepping it to mix with the bone in grinds. Was hoping to get the lamb loin they sell but it’s eternally out of stock. Once again thankful for my investment in a good wood cutting board and Japanese meat knife lol

 

[iPappy]

That’s honestly really impressive that you’ve learned to balance it based on that. Will keep that in mind.

We’re going on a long drive into the city tomorrow to an Asian market and pet store that has a lot of different premade raw blends available so hopefully I can pickup most of what we need for the next few months as well as see if there’s something more balanced for kittens that agrees with her tummy.

Also noticed that Sam’s Club sells lamb leg roast for a really good price so will probably pick that up and spend a day freezer prepping it to mix with the bone in grinds. Was hoping to get the lamb loin they sell but it’s eternally out of stock. Once again thankful for my investment in a good wood cutting board and Japanese meat knife lol

A premade blend for kittens would be a great investment provided she can tolerate it. Just make sure to really read the ingredients list to make sure it's all stuff she can handle!
I don't feed a lot of lamb, so make sure it's high enough in taurine. If she can handle poultry or beef, heart counts as a muscle meat (not an organ) and is VERY high in taurine. I'm not sure about lamb hearts, but My Pet Carnivore carries them so you could email them and ask.

 

[GenCat]

A premade blend for kittens would be a great investment provided she can tolerate it. Just make sure to really read the ingredients list to make sure it's all stuff she can handle!
I don't feed a lot of lamb, so make sure it's high enough in taurine. If she can handle poultry or beef, heart counts as a muscle meat (not an organ) and is VERY high in taurine. I'm not sure about lamb hearts, but My Pet Carnivore carries them so you could email them and ask.

Will keep this in mind! I can definitely supplement extra heart meat if necessary. MPC says that lamb heart is also very high in taurine and everything I got today includes a lot of it so I think it should be fine though.

The pet food shop we went to was amazing. They are very pro raw food and were excited to hear I was a newbie joining them in giving our cats "the good stuff" lol She was so excited showing me all their freezers of food and recommended me some stuff for LiLi. It's an hour and a half drive but as long as gas doesn't go up in price it's still cheaper than shipping plus the bonus of not having cat food totally take over my freezer space (and delicious Asian food in town )

I ended up stopping a little bit of everywhere just to be sure I have something she will be able eat. I got Smallbatch lamb because the ingredients seemed fairly safe, as well as turkey and rabbit. It says it is AAFCO balanced for all stages of life. I also got Smallbatch grinds of the same proteins just in case she doesn’t tolerate it well and needs alnutrin with meat and bones. It shows similar levels of calcium and phosphorous as their all stages of life premade (which honestly seems really low...). If she tolerates the beaver meat well I'll probably 50/50 it with the lamb since the beaver meat bone % is higher.

I also got two Savage Cat blends because I was impressed with their added ingredients, especially the fact that it already contains pancreas. It's probably out of my price range for the long term but if LiLi tolerates it well she can get spoiled a bit till she's 1 1/2 years old I'm giving her "bonus" kittenhood time because she has struggled so much.

Was hoping to also get Lotus brand to try later on but they were sold out which is probably best because I spent a fortune on food already and got enough to let all the cats try stuff for a couple of weeks.

EDIT: The article below was super informative and echoed a lot of the advice iPappy mentioned so figured I would leave it here in case anyone finds this thread and wants more information. I also emailed Alnutrin to get their advice on if more taurine may be necessary and what bone % I need to be using for kittens.

How Do I Feed My Kitten A Balanced Raw Diet? | Red Dog Blue Kat | Red Dog Blue Kat

Kittens have certain nutritional requirements as they grow. Learn how to properly balance your kittens raw diet.

www.reddogbluekat.com

 

[GenCat]

So far LiLi has been doing much better, gained some weight and her fur is looking nice like before she got sick at New Years. Still giving her Cerenia daily, whatever amount I can get down her throat but apparently it’s enough because we’ve had no vomiting. She does still feel ill after eating but still seems better than before. Oh and best thing, no diarrhea! I can‘t tell if it’s totally formed but still I will take anything other than liquid. She shares the big cats litter boxes and we moved her baby cage out since we no longer have to monitor her as much which is why it took me a couple days to notice.

Been slowly adding more Small Batch lamb to her regular raw lamb, she likes it a lot and tends to go for it first. Her older siblings don’t understand why they can’t have the lamb too lol even though if she doesn’t eat it after the second time I offer it it goes to them.

Currently working on streamlining my raw food production line. I realized mixing up a batch of Alnutrin isn’t difficult if you portion out the organ meats in advance and since most stuff comes in 1 or 2 pound bags I decided to do it all at once while still frozen (thank you santoku knife for your service).

I bought some silicone ice cube trays with lids that make 2” cubes. It turned out perfect for portioning the organs to go with 1 pound of muscle meat (half liver and half kidney or pancreas). The trays also fit inside a 1 gallon hefty bag with the slide close on top for extra freezer proofing and to keep any meat that may get on the outside away from everything else in the freezer. Then they easily stack as well. I got the four colors so that I can color code the proteins.

 

[GenCat]

Just got back from the specialist visit and boy was that a ride. The staff were all really nice and took good care of us. The vet tech spent awhile getting information and told me they would most likely need to do an ultrasound (expected that) and how much (did not expect that lmao). Obviously it’s the only option to proceed so told them to go ahead.

Well before they did that the doctor came in to give me a rundown of the potential issues and what diagnostics they would need to do as well as the importance of doing everything in order so we don’t miss anything and have the pieces we need to decide what to do next. He didn’t want me to have to go through diagnostics and the costs of them until he was sure that he had all the information he could glean from my local vet. Apparently he was concerned about esophageal disorders but my vet didn’t get the x-ray high enough for that (Due to it being so rare they probably never even considered it). So he was confirming everything he could with my vet before doing the ultrasound.

Once everything was confirmed he went ahead with the ultrasound. So I was a little bit lost keeping up with everything but, he suspects either 1. There is an obstruction of some kind involving a foreign object after all 2. She has a physical defect affecting her stomachs ability to empty into the small intestine. He wanted to consult with a radiologist before discussing with me what to do next so will have more information tomorrow or the day after. He was really honest that surgery will be necessary (she won’t grow out of it) but the risks are very high if it is a physical defect.

 

[iPappy]

Just got back from the specialist visit and boy was that a ride. The staff were all really nice and took good care of us. The vet tech spent awhile getting information and told me they would most likely need to do an ultrasound (expected that) and how much (did not expect that lmao). Obviously it’s the only option to proceed so told them to go ahead.

Well before they did that the doctor came in to give me a rundown of the potential issues and what diagnostics they would need to do as well as the importance of doing everything in order so we don’t miss anything and have the pieces we need to decide what to do next. He didn’t want me to have to go through diagnostics and the costs of them until he was sure that he had all the information he could glean from my local vet. Apparently he was concerned about esophageal disorders but my vet didn’t get the x-ray high enough for that (Due to it being so rare they probably never even considered it). So he was confirming everything he could with my vet before doing the ultrasound.

Once everything was confirmed he went ahead with the ultrasound. So I was a little bit lost keeping up with everything but, he suspects either 1. There is an obstruction of some kind involving a foreign object after all 2. She has a physical defect affecting her stomachs ability to empty into the small intestine. He wanted to consult with a radiologist before discussing with me what to do next so will have more information tomorrow or the day after. He was really honest that surgery will be necessary (she won’t grow out of it) but the risks are very high if it is a physical defect.

It sounds like they were very thorough, and very willing to do things in order so nothing gets missed and a misdiagnosis isn't made. It sounds like you're in good hands
I'll be anxiously waiting to hear any news on this. You've done such a wonderful job with this little kitten, she is so incredibly lucky to have you!

 

[Kwik]

Just got back from the specialist visit and boy was that a ride. The staff were all really nice and took good care of us. The vet tech spent awhile getting information and told me they would most likely need to do an ultrasound (expected that) and how much (did not expect that lmao). Obviously it’s the only option to proceed so told them to go ahead.

Well before they did that the doctor came in to give me a rundown of the potential issues and what diagnostics they would need to do as well as the importance of doing everything in order so we don’t miss anything and have the pieces we need to decide what to do next. He didn’t want me to have to go through diagnostics and the costs of them until he was sure that he had all the information he could glean from my local vet. Apparently he was concerned about esophageal disorders but my vet didn’t get the x-ray high enough for that (Due to it being so rare they probably never even considered it). So he was confirming everything he could with my vet before doing the ultrasound.

Once everything was confirmed he went ahead with the ultrasound. So I was a little bit lost keeping up with everything but, he suspects either 1. There is an obstruction of some kind involving a foreign object after all 2. She has a physical defect affecting her stomachs ability to empty into the small intestine. He wanted to consult with a radiologist before discussing with me what to do next so will have more information tomorrow or the day after. He was really honest that surgery will be necessary (she won’t grow out of it) but the risks are very high if it is a physical defect.

Wow!Now that is a specialist!Sounds like beyond wonderful,you must feel like you are finally getting somewhere-I hope and pray you get good news from radiology

 

[GenCat]

It sounds like they were very thorough, and very willing to do things in order so nothing gets missed and a misdiagnosis isn't made. It sounds like you're in good hands
I'll be anxiously waiting to hear any news on this. You've done such a wonderful job with this little kitten, she is so incredibly lucky to have you!

Yes, I was very impressed from the start which surprised me given they had a lot of negative reviews. But then I realized that a lot of the reviews were probably for the regular vets or the emergency side, not the specialists (who won’t even be called in for emergency care, which I found crazy)

Thank you I’m of mixed feelings still since the doctor was very direct that surgery outcomes are not the best. One positive is that once it‘s done if things go well it will be fixed rather than what I expected which was a lifetime of having to “keep ahead“ of IBD and the problems that go along with it. The cost is also going to be really high but then I thought about the potential costs of IBD in comparison which calmed me down (years and years of needing Cerenia, Mirataz and novel proteins would add up really fast)

Wow!Now that is a specialist!Sounds like beyond wonderful,you must feel like you are finally getting somewhere-I hope and pray you get good news from radiology

Thank you honestly never thought I would hope for her to have eaten a rock or something and that be causing this but here we are lmao I was glad they had tissues everywhere because after he told me that surgery was risky I needed a quick cry. Apparently it’s rather rare in cats but I found a few reports and they all had positive outcomes so I calmed down a bit once I processed everything.

 

[Kwik]

Yes, I was very impressed from the start which surprised me given they had a lot of negative reviews. But then I realized that a lot of the reviews were probably for the regular vets or the emergency side, not the specialists (who won’t even be called in for emergency care, which I found crazy)

Thank you I’m of mixed feelings still since the doctor was very direct that surgery outcomes are not the best. One positive is that once it‘s done if things go well it will be fixed rather than what I expected which was a lifetime of having to “keep ahead“ of IBD and the problems that go along with it. The cost is also going to be really high but then I thought about the potential costs of IBD in comparison which calmed me down (years and years of needing Cerenia, Mirataz and novel proteins would add up really fast)



Thank you honestly never thought I would hope for her to have eaten a rock or something and that be causing this but here we are lmao I was glad they had tissues everywhere because after he told me that surgery was risky I needed a quick cry. Apparently it’s rather rare in cats but I found a few reports and they all had positive outcomes so I calmed down a bit once I processed everything.

One step at a time my friend- try not to think about what might not even happen- we will continue to hope for the best and take each day as it comes- it's all you can do is to continue exactly as you are

Hugs hugs hugs hugs