New kittens, vomiting and coccidia

[GenCat]

Not sure how, because she hasn't been eating a whole lot, but she hit 3.3 pounds (previous record was 3 pounds)

 

[iPappy]

GenCat how are things going?

 

[GenCat]

GenCat how are things going?

Not too well but stable for now. I ended up trying Cerenia (+ adding Mirataz) again and so far I have managed to hide it enough in pill pockets that she doesn't foam at the mouth. She does seem very nauseous though but has a lot more "comfortable loaf" moments. Sadly we're still struggling to get her to eat like she did before the URI at new years. Will be going back to the vet so they can check her mouth to see what's making eating difficult.

 

[GenCat]

She found the pills in the pockets and managed to spit them out this time so she had to eat them the hard way thankfully she didn’t foam at the mouth this time, I did not need another URI incident. I will try the pill capsules tomorrow.

I noticed a lot more people manage to get their cats to eat digestive kibble than wet, obviously they need to put more of their $$$ at Hills and Purina into making digestive wet food palatable enough to make it to the stomach. Ordered a bag of Blue Buffalo hydrolyzed out of curiosity since she has done so well on KMR. She’s still on Cerenia/Mirataz combo so it’s hard to really determine but so far I think she is doing very well on it.

I started by making a small bowl of KMR, letting her drink most of it (she doesn’t like licking the bottom of the bowl), then sprinkling 2-3 kibbles into it at the end along with her supplements (Adored Beast came in so fingers crossed it helps). Usually even with the medication combo if I feed her canned food of any kind even in small amounts she will start looking a bit nauseous and stop playing as much. But so far I have increased the hydrolyzed a couple pieces every meal and she hasn’t slowed down.

I’m not a fan of dry food at all for a multitude of reasons but this sick baby’s tummy needs a break so if this is what it takes I’m all for it. I’ll be trying a different brand next time, probably Farmina’s hydrolyzed.

Oh and bless Chewy for their amazing customer service, they refunded me on the nasty gunk the vet gave her that she wouldn’t eat and I’ll be donating it to a vet near me that can hopefully save someone else the trouble of finding out fluffy refuses to eat it lol.

 

[Kwik]

You know something,my Beloved Cheech turned thst little nose up to anything in a can,bag or "wet"- he lived a very healthy long life until he became ill at 17- he passed just before 19yrs..... he was strong,fast,energentic with a beautiful shiny coat and bright eyes...... so what can I say,he drank fresh clean water all the time and was well hydrated- whatever it takes to get this baby to hold food down is A-ok in my book

Also,my little Bella will pretty regukarly regurgitate wet food - she's an "eat to survive " kinda girly and not motivated by food in the least- her little tummy does well grazing on dry food but she does love gravies,soups and stews so those are her snacks ( leaves the meat for someone else)

I give them what works,so if you find what works stick with it and maybe as she matures you can gradually try what you think might be a better diet.... all you can do is exactly what you've been doing- you're the best in my eyes,LiLi could not have a better pet parent

 

[Kwik]

Can I comment on something here,a little off Topic?
I think our society has gotten so "smart" that they lack common sense- KWIM?So much study &research on nutrition and health yet it doesn't even make sense some times- yeah yeah we all know red meat is not good for you,sugar is bad,certain foods even contribute to this or that,right?

Take me for example,you could not have had a person who was more physically fit,ate no junk and all " good " foods my entire life and though it's true I was never sick with colds or flus ( not ever) I've been battling cancer many many years- so now,who cares what I eat! I go to many survivor groups and attend many research seminars and studies and they attribute so much to diet and red meats etc- yet every single patient in my group never ate red meat and are all pretty much sugar free types- stupid,it's just stupid imo.....

Thsts my little off topic( sort of) rant for the day---- humans and animals are predisposed to most abnormalities,we are all do unique in our metabolisms and what works for one may not work for another...... I'm just venting,little LiLi gets to a soft spot in my heart-I get tired of Dr recommendations sometimes and just do my own thing because it works better,for me🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷

Wondering now if I should select all & CUT? Nah,I'll leave it be because I'm in conplete support of GenCat - trust her judgement conpletely

 

[iPappy]

She found the pills in the pockets and managed to spit them out this time so she had to eat them the hard way thankfully she didn’t foam at the mouth this time, I did not need another URI incident. I will try the pill capsules tomorrow.

I noticed a lot more people manage to get their cats to eat digestive kibble than wet, obviously they need to put more of their $$$ at Hills and Purina into making digestive wet food palatable enough to make it to the stomach. Ordered a bag of Blue Buffalo hydrolyzed out of curiosity since she has done so well on KMR. She’s still on Cerenia/Mirataz combo so it’s hard to really determine but so far I think she is doing very well on it.

I started by making a small bowl of KMR, letting her drink most of it (she doesn’t like licking the bottom of the bowl), then sprinkling 2-3 kibbles into it at the end along with her supplements (Adored Beast came in so fingers crossed it helps). Usually even with the medication combo if I feed her canned food of any kind even in small amounts she will start looking a bit nauseous and stop playing as much. But so far I have increased the hydrolyzed a couple pieces every meal and she hasn’t slowed down.

I’m not a fan of dry food at all for a multitude of reasons but this sick baby’s tummy needs a break so if this is what it takes I’m all for it. I’ll be trying a different brand next time, probably Farmina’s hydrolyzed.

Oh and bless Chewy for their amazing customer service, they refunded me on the nasty gunk the vet gave her that she wouldn’t eat and I’ll be donating it to a vet near me that can hopefully save someone else the trouble of finding out fluffy refuses to eat it lol.

With any cat that isn't strong, healthy, and bright eyed, my feeling has always been eating something is better than eating nothing at all. My cat was on A/D...not the greatest "ingredients" but for him, it was a great choice because it was so high in calories and he needed all the help he could get. IIRC a hydrolyzed food is basically where the ingredients are broken down into such small "particles" that the body doesn't recognize an allergen so they get some relief and are able to eat full meals again without getting or feeling sick. Many times these diets are temporary (8 weeks or so) to let the body rest, and then you gradually start adding things back in to see what triggers a reaction.
Piggybacking off of what Kwik said, there are foods out there that are very healthy but my body does NOT do well with. There are foods that are touted as "unhealthy" but I absolutely thrive on, so, rather than listening to what the so called experts say, I do what works...for me. I think the bottom line is everyone is different and what works for some, doesn't work for all.

 

[GenCat]

Can I comment on something here,a little off Topic?
I think our society has gotten so "smart" that they lack common sense- KWIM?So much study &research on nutrition and health yet it doesn't even make sense some times- yeah yeah we all know red meat is not good for you,sugar is bad,certain foods even contribute to this or that,right?

Take me for example,you could not have had a person who was more physically fit,ate no junk and all " good " foods my entire life and though it's true I was never sick with colds or flus ( not ever) I've been battling cancer many many years- so now,who cares what I eat! I go to many survivor groups and attend many research seminars and studies and they attribute so much to diet and red meats etc- yet every single patient in my group never ate red meat and are all pretty much sugar free types- stupid,it's just stupid imo.....

Thsts my little off topic( sort of) rant for the day---- humans and animals are predisposed to most abnormalities,we are all do unique in our metabolisms and what works for one may not work for another...... I'm just venting,little LiLi gets to a soft spot in my heart-I get tired of Dr recommendations sometimes and just do my own thing because it works better,for me🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷

Wondering now if I should select all & CUT? Nah,I'll leave it be because I'm in conplete support of GenCat - trust her judgement conpletely

Totally understand that, my condition can also be controlled a lot by diet but I was unable to mentally, or physically, handle it so I just shrugged and moved on lol thankfully surgery mostly handled everything. In the case of LiLi I've been concerned about it due to the chronic vomiting (dehydration and discomfort if throwing up dry food) and diarrhea (dehydration x2) as well as the fact that a lot of IBS cats have intolerance of many things in veterinary diets.

IMO every condition has multiple causes and one of those will always be genetics, which you can't exactly escape from or cure. I was watching a very interesting video about how many conditions may have originated from the people who lived through the Black Plague. It's great that they lived through it, but it still affects the body and some of that damage can be passed down.

With any cat that isn't strong, healthy, and bright eyed, my feeling has always been eating something is better than eating nothing at all. My cat was on A/D...not the greatest "ingredients" but for him, it was a great choice because it was so high in calories and he needed all the help he could get. IIRC a hydrolyzed food is basically where the ingredients are broken down into such small "particles" that the body doesn't recognize an allergen so they get some relief and are able to eat full meals again without getting or feeling sick. Many times these diets are temporary (8 weeks or so) to let the body rest, and then you gradually start adding things back in to see what triggers a reaction.
Piggybacking off of what Kwik said, there are foods out there that are very healthy but my body does NOT do well with. There are foods that are touted as "unhealthy" but I absolutely thrive on, so, rather than listening to what the so called experts say, I do what works...for me. I think the bottom line is everyone is different and what works for some, doesn't work for all.

Definitely agree, which is why I almost had it out with a shelter employee who blamed me for not trying hard enough to get her to eat the veterinary canned food. I said to her face "what? you expect me to STARVE her into eating it?" which then she back peddled very quickly. If a cat thinks the food smells awful, they are not going to eat it.

Also reminds me of how the vet didn't want me to syringe feed her because "cats have an aversion to eating foods themselves after they're syringe fed that food" *watches LiLi beg for KMR and gulp it down herself after being syringe fed for a week". I actually appreciate that syringe feeding week because we learned how to do it safely and comfortably for her and she will actually "latch" onto the syringe knowing tasty food is coming. She sometimes forgets that it's 50/50 if that's medicine inside and latches then tries to back out

Yes you are correct about hydrolyzed food. I have noticed that she seems to have a hard time digesting and the build up in her tummy only when she consumes meat so I went...what if we make the meat easier to breakdown? I have also wanted to try pancreatic enzymes but it requires a vet to sign off and I don't know if mine would since it's for treating something they don't think she has. But my brain puts 2 and 2 together and decides, well it's worth a try!

There is an acupuncturist near me that swears your blood type tells you what things you should eat. I think A type was mostly vegetables with very little red meat, and one other was mostly red meat. I think connecting it to your blood type is a tad bit like using a horoscope to predict your way in life but I do agree that certain people do very well with things that are considered "not as healthy" by most standards.

 

[GenCat]

Me staring at the price of this...

https://www.chewy.com/pancreplus-powder-dogs-cats/dp/173681

Then finding this "1–3 oz (30–90 g) of raw chopped pancreas can replace 1 teaspoon of pancreatic extract"

Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency in Dogs and Cats - Digestive System - Merck Veterinary Manual

Learn about the veterinary topic of Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency in Dogs and Cats. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual.

www.merckvetmanual.com

Checking out on My Pet Carnivore right now

 

[iPappy]

Me staring at the price of this...

http://[URL]https://www.chewy.com/pancreplus-powder-dogs-cats/dp/173681

[/URL]

Then finding this "1–3 oz (30–90 g) of raw chopped pancreas can replace 1 teaspoon of pancreatic extract"

http://[URL]https://www.merckvetman...ine-pancreatic-insufficiency-in-dogs-and-cats

[/URL]

Checking out on My Pet Carnivore right now

I have ordered from My Pet Carnivore for almost 15 years. They are really a great company with excellent customer service and great transparency.

 

[GenCat]

I have ordered from My Pet Carnivore for almost 15 years. They are really a great company with excellent customer service and great transparency.

So glad to hear this! I saw a lot of good reviews on Google and looked into them a bit but I hadn't heard much about them around the forums/Facebook so was a tad bit nervous. I think they're the closest meat supplier to me (besides Rebel Raw) which I really like since I'll feel a bit more comfortable ordering during summer.

 

[Kwik]

Hmmm,why don't I know about MyPet Carnivore? Thank you my girlies I've never even heard about this place before this moment

 

[GenCat]

Hmmm,why don't I know about MyPet Carnivore? Thank you my girlies I've never even heard about this place before this moment

I am very happy you have new sources for delicious munchies for the furry friends

I've been enjoying being able to share all this information with a coworker who is open minded about raw feeding since she shares munchies with her dogs already. I let her know about meal completers as well as My Pet Carnivore.

Now back to our regularly scheduled LiLi check in. She spat her Cerenia (in a pill capsule) back at me 4 times today! The last time I swear she spat it out and it landed somewhere but I could never find it, I told her when she throws up later it's her own fault for being such a pain when I'm trying to help Secretly hopeful she did actually swallow it and won't feel too bad.

The hydrolyzed food seemed to be doing decently but today she's been on the "struggle bus" a lot. I could barely extract her from my shoulder to go to work and then my husband came out so she did the same to him. Left marks on his shoulder she dug in so hard.

Got home from work and I forgot I had bought a package of lamb to cut up and make kitty snacks so I mixed it up and froze the extra.

Well I gave some to them but the big cats weren't happy about the large pieces (first time attempting chunks) then LiLi comically stuck a claw into a big chunk and flung it across the mat lmao. She proceeded to play with it for a few minutes. I chopped it up some more and she went feral kitty on it. She finally managed to chew her small chunk but not being used to it coughed it back up It didn't deter her though and she devoured 3-4 small pieces before I decided she needed a tummy time out to see how it settled. She is now zoomy-ing around the house with the big kids, prayers that she doesn't decide to board the Struggle Bus again.

 

[iPappy]

So glad to hear this! I saw a lot of good reviews on Google and looked into them a bit but I hadn't heard much about them around the forums/Facebook so was a tad bit nervous. I think they're the closest meat supplier to me (besides Rebel Raw) which I really like since I'll feel a bit more comfortable ordering during summer.

I am very happy you have new sources for delicious munchies for the furry friends

I've been enjoying being able to share all this information with a coworker who is open minded about raw feeding since she shares munchies with her dogs already. I let her know about meal completers as well as My Pet Carnivore.

Now back to our regularly scheduled LiLi check in. She spat her Cerenia (in a pill capsule) back at me 4 times today! The last time I swear she spat it out and it landed somewhere but I could never find it, I told her when she throws up later it's her own fault for being such a pain when I'm trying to help Secretly hopeful she did actually swallow it and won't feel too bad.

The hydrolyzed food seemed to be doing decently but today she's been on the "struggle bus" a lot. I could barely extract her from my shoulder to go to work and then my husband came out so she did the same to him. Left marks on his shoulder she dug in so hard.

Got home from work and I forgot I had bought a package of lamb to cut up and make kitty snacks so I mixed it up and froze the extra.

Well I gave some to them but the big cats weren't happy about the large pieces (first time attempting chunks) then LiLi comically stuck a claw into a big chunk and flung it across the mat lmao. She proceeded to play with it for a few minutes. I chopped it up some more and she went feral kitty on it. She finally managed to chew her small chunk but not being used to it coughed it back up It didn't deter her though and she devoured 3-4 small pieces before I decided she needed a tummy time out to see how it settled. She is now zoomy-ing around the house with the big kids, prayers that she doesn't decide to board the Struggle Bus again.

Lili throwing her food across the mat is so funny to picture!
How big were the chunks you gave her? If she brings it back up, it might help to take some scissors and cut about half of it into strips attached to the chunk so she has something smaller to grab onto, this can help them learn to chew their food up.

 

[Kwik]

I am very happy you have new sources for delicious munchies for the furry friends

I've been enjoying being able to share all this information with a coworker who is open minded about raw feeding since she shares munchies with her dogs already. I let her know about meal completers as well as My Pet Carnivore.

Now back to our regularly scheduled LiLi check in. She spat her Cerenia (in a pill capsule) back at me 4 times today! The last time I swear she spat it out and it landed somewhere but I could never find it, I told her when she throws up later it's her own fault for being such a pain when I'm trying to help Secretly hopeful she did actually swallow it and won't feel too bad.

The hydrolyzed food seemed to be doing decently but today she's been on the "struggle bus" a lot. I could barely extract her from my shoulder to go to work and then my husband came out so she did the same to him. Left marks on his shoulder she dug in so hard.

Got home from work and I forgot I had bought a package of lamb to cut up and make kitty snacks so I mixed it up and froze the extra.

Well I gave some to them but the big cats weren't happy about the large pieces (first time attempting chunks) then LiLi comically stuck a claw into a big chunk and flung it across the mat lmao. She proceeded to play with it for a few minutes. I chopped it up some more and she went feral kitty on it. She finally managed to chew her small chunk but not being used to it coughed it back up It didn't deter her though and she devoured 3-4 small pieces before I decided she needed a tummy time out to see how it settled. She is now zoomy-ing around the house with the big kids, prayers that she doesn't decide to board the Struggle Bus again.

You're an absolute doll!

 

[GenCat]

Lili throwing her food across the mat is so funny to picture!
How big were the chunks you gave her? If she brings it back up, it might help to take some scissors and cut about half of it into strips attached to the chunk so she has something smaller to grab onto, this can help them learn to chew their food up.

She did it again at breakfast before eating it

The chunks were around 1.5 x .5 inch. They were for the big cats but they turned their noses up at chewing. That is a genius suggestion, I accidentally did that once and her confusion was amusing to watch. She’s like I have a bite in my mouth that is a good size but why can’t I swallow it *gets annoyed and chews through the bit holding them together*. Another one she chewed down to exactly the size to get stuck to the roof of her mouth and I had to save her.

She ate quite a few mini chunks for breakfast and is now zooming around the house with XiaoXiao. I’m trying to figure out how to make ground meat more palatable for her cause she’s not a fan but to do the alnutrin meat and bone I kind of have to (or find meaty bones that are a safe protein)

 

[GenCat]

Dinner also went well! I see a very noticeable change in her behavior after meals so will be sticking with the lamb until she shows a change.

 

[iPappy]

Dinner also went well! I see a very noticeable change in her behavior after meals so will be sticking with the lamb until she shows a change.

This is very good that she's handling it so well!
As far as the grinds go, have you tried taking small spoonfuls of the grinds and really mashing them down into little chunks that resemble the actual chunks, but just take less chewing? If she has eaten the grinds before, did you notice a different in her energy level or how she seemed to feel eating the grinds vs. the chunks?
If you're feeding meat/bone/organ grinds, make sure you know what the ratio is. IME most of those are geared towards dogs and are much too high in bone content. My cats get 5-6%, and most grinds are 10%, so keep that in mind.

 

[GenCat]

This is very good that she's handling it so well!
As far as the grinds go, have you tried taking small spoonfuls of the grinds and really mashing them down into little chunks that resemble the actual chunks, but just take less chewing? If she has eaten the grinds before, did you notice a different in her energy level or how she seemed to feel eating the grinds vs. the chunks?
If you're feeding meat/bone/organ grinds, make sure you know what the ratio is. IME most of those are geared towards dogs and are much too high in bone content. My cats get 5-6%, and most grinds are 10%, so keep that in mind.

She’s a bit more ulp-y tonight but still seems much more comfortable. Like a 40/100 nausea, where as most other food was more like 60-80/100 nausea. Will definitely try compacting the ground meat and trying to make little meat cubes she can hopefully bite onto easier.

So far she’s only had boneless ground meat, this is my first venture into whole grinds for any of the cats. And you are right on the mark with your advice cause that’s why I haven done it yet, I was nervous about figuring out how to “dilute” the bone percentage lol.

My Pet Carnivore says it uses 10-15% bone content so will definitely even it out with some boneless meat. Interesting that I never considered some meats will be hard to balance since it’s difficult to get small animal meats boneless. Like the beaver grind I ordered, I will have to add lamb or something to it and it’s no longer a single protein making it a bit harder to track what is causing stomach upset.

 

[iPappy]

I have never used them for my own cats, but, adding some lamb heart chunks could work if lamb is a protein she tolerates. It depends on your ick factor though as dicing that up can be....
If MPC is out of something I need, I also use Hare-Today.com. They are in PA, the owners are wonderful and I'm very happy with the company. They offer a lot of boneless ground meats that do nicely if I need to dilute the bone content in any grind.
Both companies offer fine and course grinds. I don't use the course grinds for my cats, just the fine grinds, but YMMV.