Today is J-Day!

[Kat0121]

Pam. Just

This is SUCH a difficult situation to be in. My instinct really is that Jackie needs a home where someone is in all the time. Some animals are just like that. You absolutely have to take account of the cats' needs too. Miss J is just one animal out of 7, and that HAS to impact decisions. Sure, the cats are coping now, but it is still stress.

Leah is a very noisy and conciencious guard dog. Asha handles it fine because there is someone here 99% of the time to diffuse things, but she still growls every time Leah kicks off. I'm not at all convinced she'd cope long term if things were different.

I hope the beagle rescue can help you. Sad as it is, I think you're doing the right thing

Hang in there

I couldn't agree more. You have gone far and above the call of duty with Jackie already and what this is doing to you, Rick and the cats isn't fair.  It's very sad to see an older dog go to a rescue but it often turns out for the best. It sounds like she has always had these behavioral problems but if Rick's parents were around most of the time, she wouldn't have had to express them. 

Not trying to open a can of worms here or anything but couldn't Rick's sister and BIL help out at all? Take her for walks, visit with her, maybe take her for a weekend or during the week if one of them will be home? She could be a shared dog. Maybe?

 

[larussa]

I understand your situation very well and no, you cannot go on like this, it is not fair to you or the cats.  The cats have been so good thru all of this, bless their hearts.  I just pray Jackie still has a future with someone or somewhere. 

 

[MoochNNoodles]

Jackie reminds me of my friend's old basset hound.  When my friend moved overseas they rehomed the dog to my boss; who was a very experienced dog owner.  Well; he was not happy at her house.  At first he was fine.  She had a young son and her father would come let the dogs out daily.  He loved her son; he could walk the dog and they'd run and play together.  He had 2 other dogs to play with; a big gentle chocolate lab and a dachshund. Once he started settling in he started peeing in the house and refusing to go out for her father.  To the point of growling and snarling at him!  I never saw him act that way before.   Her father was very good with dogs too; so it was a surprise to him!

He would be completely different when they took him on trips.  They were big campers and the dogs would go along.  He was night and day.  One trip the visited family in another state.  The family was younger retired and the dog bonded to her uncle.  They decided to leave him there for a few weeks to see how it went.  That ended up being his permanent home.  He was happy.  No more peeing inside.  No more growling at anyone.  They had the time to give him the attention he wanted.  So they left him go.  I was upset at first because I'd arranged the rehoming.  I felt responsible for it.  It took me time to see it was in his best interest that he stay with them.  In the end; that was what mattered.  No one gave up on him; they made the hard choices.  

I hope you are able to help Jackie into a better situation for his needs too. 

 

[jcat]

Did she pee at your in-laws' house? Could the UTI be the reason she's leaving puddles? Is she carrying on the whole time you're gone, or only going into a frenzy when she hears your cars?

I'm one of those people who believe crating can exacerbate bad behavior. Dogs can become overanxious when confined like that, because they can't do their job of protecting the house and every little sound they can't investigate sets them off; many do much better when they can move around and watch over their territory. Peeing isn't unusual in a new home, either, and often resolves itself given a couple of weeks. The UTI, even if mild, might be making things worse.

What I'm trying to say is that although the situation is bad and very frustrating, it's not necessarily something that you'd have to deal with forever if she can't be rehomed.

 

[Winchester]

She hasn't peed in the house since Thanksgiving and I really see that as a good sign. She's on the meds for the UTI, but we just found out about the UTI and she just started the meds yesterday. 

From what I'm seeing when I come home at lunch, she thrashes in the crate while I'm at work. I come home at lunch and the crate can be moved as much as 3 feet from where it was. Yesterday, we had the crate in the living room and when I got home from work at lunch, the crate (with her in it) was under the kitchen table. Rick's afraid that it's going to tear the kitchen floor because of all the movement.

She hates the crate and I do think it's making things worse. But I don't want to come home and see her in the bay window either. Or see a 5-foot long swath of pee and dribble on the living room carpet (which is what I dealt with the day before Thanksgiving) because of her anxiety.

I know we can get her over the UTI with meds. I honestly don't know if we can get her over the screaming. She doesn't drink our well water; like the cats, she drinks only bottled water.

(And yes, we do worry about her destroying things in the house. I don't want the kitchen floor torn and I wasn't particularly happy when I saw the gouges in the windowsill from her being in the bay window. It's bad enough with the cats scratching the furniture without dealing with a dog that does damage, too. Fortunately, she does not chew....other than trying to chew the wires of the crate.)

She's going to the kennel this morning and will be back home with us on Sunday. We have to go to a wedding and our pet sitter comes twice a day. That's not enough for Jackie. But now we're worried that being kenneled will set her back. Although as Rick said, "Set her back? From what? She really hasn't gotten any better and in some ways, she's gotten a lot worse." So there you go.

She needs more exercise than we can give her. I know we have a big yard. But we don't have the time for her to be outside for hours on end. If it was summer and there was more daylight, it would be different. And I'm not the kind to leave a dog tied outside to a tree or anything like that. When we're outside, that's one thing. I don't know if we could do that treadmill thing with her or not. I keep saying that I want to take her on the trail or over to walk at my sister's house, but I can't find the time. And I know how ridiculous that sounds, but I simply cannot find the time. 

She is happy here overall; I really do believe that. And if we were the kind of people who never went anywhere, she'd be fine here. When we're at home, she's the happiest dog around. She listens well, she goes outside to pee and for walks around the house. She's eating fine, she loves her snacks; she's even dealing well with the cats' food now. A lot of times, as soon as I start to feed the cats, Jackie will go into the living room on her own or she'll go over to her dish and wait for me to feed her. The tail never stops; the body never stops wriggling. I think she'd be happier if we let her sleep in bed with us, but the cats wouldn't allow it. But overall, I really do think she's happy with us.....to the point where she never wants us to leave her!

 

[jcat]

You probably won't be able to keep her away from the bay window, but you can protect the sills with quilting, pillows & velcro, plexiglass or safety glass. Blinds or curtains have to be kept up/short. It's just in the nature of dogs to look out the windows to see what's going on and identify potential intruders, and they can do a lot of damage with their claws, so dog owners have to be a bit inventive in order to protect wooden windows or doors. We've got marble window sills. After my parents saw them, my dad went to a salvage yard and picked up various pieces of marble, sheet glass and old composite kitchen counters and cut to size to protect their oak window sills. When we wanted to protect our good oak dining table from Mogli, we shopped online and got a piece of car safety glass cut to size - it was surprisingly inexpensive.

An 11-year-old dog shouldn't have to be outside/walking for hours on end. Two half-hour walks a day should be enough, three if you can find the time. It would be different if she were a young, high-energy dog like a husky, but she isn't.

 

[stewball]

Jackie reminds me of my friend's old basset hound.  When my friend moved overseas they rehomed the dog to my boss; who was a very experienced dog owner.  Well; he was not happy at her house.  At first he was fine.  She had a young son and her father would come let the dogs out daily.  He loved her son; he could walk the dog and they'd run and play together.  He had 2 other dogs to play with; a big gentle chocolate lab and a dachshund. Once he started settling in he started peeing in the house and refusing to go out for her father.  To the point of growling and snarling at him!  I never saw him act that way before.   Her father was very good with dogs too; so it was a surprise to him!

He would be completely different when they took him on trips.  They were big campers and the dogs would go along.  He was night and day.  One trip the visited family in another state.  The family was younger retired and the dog bonded to her uncle.  They decided to leave him there for a few weeks to see how it went.  That ended up being his permanent home.  He was happy.  No more peeing inside.  No more growling at anyone.  They had the time to give him the attention he wanted.  So they left him go.  I was upset at first because I'd arranged the rehoming.  I felt responsible for it.  It took me time to see it was in his best interest that he stay with them.  In the end; that was what mattered.  No one gave up on him; they made the hard choices.  

I hope you are able to help Jackie into a better situation for his needs too. 

Some animals can only be in a one animal forever home.

 

[Winchester]

You probably won't be able to keep her away from the bay window, but you can protect the sills with quilting, pillows & velcro, plexiglass or safety glass. Blinds or curtains have to be kept up/short. It's just in the nature of dogs to look out the windows to see what's going on and identify potential intruders, and they can do a lot of damage with their claws, so dog owners have to be a bit inventive in order to protect wooden windows or doors. We've got marble window sills. After my parents saw them, my dad went to a salvage yard and picked up various pieces of marble, sheet glass and old composite kitchen counters and cut to size to protect their oak window sills. When we wanted to protect our good oak dining table from Mogli, we shopped online and got a piece of car safety glass cut to size - it was surprisingly inexpensive.

An 11-year-old dog shouldn't have to be outside/walking for hours on end. Two half-hour walks a day should be enough, three if you can find the time. It would be different if she were a young, high-energy dog like a husky, but she isn't.

Those are excellent ideas! I've talked to Rick about trying to find something to protect the window sill that's better than the quilted pillow we have now. He really likes the idea of plexiglass. I also love the idea of using plexiglass to protect the top of our kitchen table. Thank you so much for those ideas!

I think what we'll do is get the plexiglass. Remove the molding from the window sill, stick the plexiglass down, then replace the molding. That will help to (hopefully) keep the plexiglass in place, too.

We stopped crating her....she was thrashing so badly in the crate that we were afraid she'd harm herself. Jackie REALLY hates the crate and would go completely crazy. We've also realized yesterday that it doesn't matter if we both leave the house or if it's just one of us who leaves.....she flips out regardless when we come back. Yesterday, Rick was already home and all the kids had had their supper and Jackie had been outside til I got home. She heard my car and Rick said she carried on. I could hear her when I got out of the car, barking and carrying on. I just came in the house and ignored her completely for about 5 minutes or so. She calmed down again, then she hopped up on the couch with me for a while. I'm hoping that that was because she had been kenneled over the weekend because that was the first time that had happened. Usually if one of us is home with her, she's not too bad when the other one comes home.

And last night Rick took Boo for his vet visit. Jackie paced around the house til they came home. Rick brought Boo up the steps, opened the carrier, and Boo walked out. Jackie was all over him, licking him and her tail was going a mile a minute. I think she was worried about Boo. Boo hopped up on the couch, Jackie hopped up on the other end of the couch, and they both napped while we ate dinner.

I do think she likes the cats. I do think she was wondering about Boo last night. And this morning, she and Boo were napping in our bed for a while, while I was getting ready for work. Before I left, I brought her out to the living room; Boo came out, too, and when I left the house, they were both on opposite ends of the couch again. I had given her 1-1/2 Composure chewies (although we don't think they help her, not really).

Oh, her Thundershirt came yesterday. Rick put it on her for a while and she was fine with it. He took it off later on and then put it back on her this morning. She was wearing it when I left for work. I have the gate across the hallway so the cats can go back to the bedroom.

There is no peeing in the house. She is not chewing anything that we can see. (She had chewed on one of the blankets in the crate so badly that we had to throw it away.) We are faithfully giving her her Amoxi for the UTI (with peanut butter....she just loves peanut butter and she has her own jar).

So it looks like she's ours for the count. The Beagle Rescue place that I had contacted never got back to me. Her vet said that, at this point, with her issues, euthanasia would probably be the best bet. I'm not going there; I'm just not. That's ridiculous. We will deal. It's not easy...it's just not easy.

We paid $30 for her to be kenneled for the weekend, so that we could go to the wedding. Rick and I have been talking and, in some ways, $30 is a good price to pay for some sanity. So on weekends when we really want to get out for a while, with friends for all day on Saturday, to go for a day trip, we're just going to pay the money and board her for the weekend. Not every weekend and probably not even every month. But there are times when we want to go away for the day, maybe a day of antiquing or shopping or what have you, followed by a nice dinner somewhere. And we'd come home fairly late. Those times, we'll take her to the kennel for the day and pick her up the next morning. It gives us a little sanity, gives us the chance to get away for a while, and gives the cats a dog-free day or so, too. And it might even be good for Jackie, too.

I don't know what it is about animals at our house. They come in....and they don't leave! 

 I guess she's ours. 

 

[Columbine]

I'm so glad you're feeling a little more positive about things. Great to hear that the peeing has stopped.

I'm just wondering - did the separation anxiety issues start after you FIL passed? It's possible she's still struggling with losing him, and worries that people won't come back when they leave. If that's the case, Rescue Remedy might really help her let go of that trauma. My old mare had MAJOR separation anxiety (and believe me, her behaviour got truly frightening at times ), and Bach Flower Remedies really helped her.

 

[Winchester]

No, Columbine, she's had the anxiety issues from the time she started living with Rick's parents. She had been in an abusive situation. Her former people didn't take her out often enough and then they would beat her when she peed in the house. She had to "hold it" for hours and hours. She developed kidney stones and, right after Rick's parents took her, she needed an operation to remove the stones. She gets bladder infections at the drop of a hat. So she didn't have an easy time of it.

When Rick's parents got her, they thought her howling and carrying on was cute. "Look at how she misses us!" 

 And it just progressed to the point of where we're at now.

His parents didn't take Jackie out as often as we do. She goes out twice in the morning before Rick leaves for work. I take her out twice during my lunch break. (As soon as I get home at lunch, we go out for a couple tours around the yard. The cats and Jackie get their lunch. And then Jackie and I go back outside, not really to pee, but just to get her back outside for a while.)  Rick takes her out at least four times during the evening, including the final time before bed. Weekends we take her out more often, simply because she does like going outside. On weekends, Jackie and I may be outside for 30 minutes at a time, simply so she can nose around in the yard, check out all the smells and she can see what has been visiting.

When Rick's father passed away, they didn't give Jackie the chance to say good-bye to him. I honestly thought then (and I still do) that she should have been allowed to see him; he died at home. But his mother wanted the dog out of the house right away before they took the body out and so she was over at the neighbor's house when he actually died. When Jackie came home later on, she looked and looked and looked for that man. And she couldn't find him. Chances are that she knew what happened. When he was getting really bad, Jackie stayed in the bedroom with him; she would come out to eat and to go outside, but then she'd go right back to him. And I think she should have had the chance to say good-bye to him. Maybe I'm giving her human emotions, but I do think that she needed some closure.

We tried Bach's a couple of times now. When Muffin first came to live with us and then again when Jackie first got here. We really noticed no big difference either time. I can try it again; it's worth a shot. We've only been using Composure for a week and her Thundershirt just got here yesterday.

I can't take her to obedience classes right now; to be honest, between the vet bills for Jackie and for the cats' vet appts this month and the expenses from going to that wedding this past weekend, our finances have taken a major hit. I'm hoping to start classes in January with her. Honestly, I'm not trying to make excuses....it's been a bad month for things.

 

[Columbine]

Sorry - I'm not meaning to come across as pushy :anon: I totally get financial/time/energy limitations. It's never easy juggling multiple animals -especially multiple species!

Wow - sounds like Jackie's had a really hard life She's lucky to have you now. I'm sure you're right about the closure. Hopefully in time she'll find some real peace with you...and give you some peace in return!

 

[Kat0121]

 
No, Columbine, she's had the anxiety issues from the time she started living with Rick's parents. She had been in an abusive situation. Her former people didn't take her out often enough and then they would beat her when she peed in the house. She had to "hold it" for hours and hours. She developed kidney stones and, right after Rick's parents took her, she needed an operation to remove the stones. She gets bladder infections at the drop of a hat. So she didn't have an easy time of it.

When Rick's parents got her, they thought her howling and carrying on was cute. "Look at how she misses us!" 

 And it just progressed to the point of where we're at now.

His parents didn't take Jackie out as often as we do. She goes out twice in the morning before Rick leaves for work. I take her out twice during my lunch break. (As soon as I get home at lunch, we go out for a couple tours around the yard. The cats and Jackie get their lunch. And then Jackie and I go back outside, not really to pee, but just to get her back outside for a while.)  Rick takes her out at least four times during the evening, including the final time before bed. Weekends we take her out more often, simply because she does like going outside. On weekends, Jackie and I may be outside for 30 minutes at a time, simply so she can nose around in the yard, check out all the smells and she can see what has been visiting.

When Rick's father passed away, they didn't give Jackie the chance to say good-bye to him. I honestly thought then (and I still do) that she should have been allowed to see him; he died at home. But his mother wanted the dog out of the house right away before they took the body out and so she was over at the neighbor's house when he actually died. When Jackie came home later on, she looked and looked and looked for that man. And she couldn't find him. Chances are that she knew what happened. When he was getting really bad, Jackie stayed in the bedroom with him; she would come out to eat and to go outside, but then she'd go right back to him. And I think she should have had the chance to say good-bye to him. Maybe I'm giving her human emotions, but I do think that she needed some closure.

My DH passed away at home, too and the dog was there. I had to crate her because everything was so chaotic. Her crate sits near the front door so she was right there when they had to take him away and she cried. It was awful. She knew what was happening. She adored him and went into a deep depression after. She waited for him in the hallway by the door for over 2 years. She moved when it was time to eat or time to go outside and that was it. She used to wait there for him to get home from work. It was really tough to see. The cats didn't live with us yet. 

So basically, there's no way to know if seeing him would have helped Jackie or not. I often wonder if I should have locked her in another room during that time but I wasn't exactly in the right frame of mind to be trying to figure out how the dog would handle it, either. 

You and Rick are doing a great job with her. Your FIL would be grateful for and really proud of how you're taking care of his little girl. 

 

[jcat]

that she's not peeing in the house! Putting her in a kennel for a day or two is a good solution, and after she's been at the same place a couple times she'll settle in. There are a few dogs that are boarded at the shelter for a day or two at a time and act like its their second home. They come bounding in like, "Hi! I'm here for a visit again!".

It's great that Jackie has bonded with Boo like that.

My niece has a beagle and a basset. She had a big bay window in the one apartment they lived in and used those animal draft blockers to protect the window sills - they were the right width and could be wedged in. Both of her "hounds" are howlers, though the beagle isn't as bad as the one my siblings and I grew up with. Teddy used to howl at the moon, sirens, etc..

My mom died at home, and my sister let the dogs stay with her till after she was gone; one of them howled the minute she died, although she had lapsed into a coma hours before. They didn't keep looking for her after her body was removed, so it's pretty certain they knew she was gone for good.

 

[larussa]

Rather than repeat myself since I said everything I wanted to say in my email.  I do want to say how happy I am that Jackie has found a loving forever home and a bunch of cat siblings too. 

I really think there is a romance between Jackie and Boo and like most men, Boo won't confess to it but Jackie shows her love by slobbering all over him, very cute indeed. 

 

[handsome kitty]

I think January is a fine time to start obedience classes with Jackie.  All the holiday craziness will be over and you can start new routines and it will be easier to stick to them.

I am hoping you can work this out so everyone is happy.

 

[Winchester]

We are going to try a bark collar. I talked to our neighbors tonight; they have two beagles and they had the same kind of problems with their boys. They used bark collars (and they also have a shock collar). I am pretty much at my wits end with the barking and the carrying on and the behavior needs to be stopped. I can't deal with it. I am willing to keep her and make sure she has a good life with us. But she really needs to stop the barking and screaming because I can't handle it. 

I'm sorry....call me what you want. I really don't want to go there, with the bark collar. But it's stressful and it's exhausting. Enough is enough. We are keeping her; we won't give her up. But I need peace, too.

ETA: She just peed on the subfloor in the bedroom. I give up. I just give up. She was last out about an hour ago. 

 

[Columbine]

I'm so sorry this is being such a rough transition. Just remember that the vibration type bark collars can create hot spots if left on for too long at a stretch, and that - like any training aid - they need a gradual introduction. Not judging your decision at all - just cautioning a little

I can imagine a little of how frustrating Jackie's noise and 'accidents' must be (thanks to my own dogs' behaviours ). Hang in there.

 

[Winchester]

Columbine, I don't care anymore. I simply do not care. I'm sitting here in tears. That peeing thing really set me off tonight. After all this time.

 

[Columbine]

 

[handsome kitty]

 
Columbine, I don't care anymore. I simply do not care. I'm sitting here in tears. That peeing thing really set me off tonight. After all this time.

I wish I were there to give you a shoulder to cry on and a big hug.  Hang  in there.