Started them on raw tonight :D

[feralvr]

6oz for Hope, who is 13lbs, and 6.75 oz for Bugsy, who is 20lbs. This is the most I can feed Bugsy..... he is not gaining nor losing weight - he is keeping...... Hope on the other hand, is gaining, as she keeps eating the bites left off from Bugsy ::smshfrk:
To preventing Bugsy from thrwoing up, I am now starting to give him Halo treats in between meals - so is kelly, but not many - just a couple pieces, rehydrated...... for chewing :nod: and only in between the long periods without food.
IMHO it depends on the weight of the cat, but also on the activity level and the lean weight - Bugsy's lean weight is NOT 20lbs, and he is a total couch potato. Different from Hope, who is much more active, for example :nod:

YEP - I think Pipsqueak is like your Busgy ..... He just can't go this long between meals - or the raw just comes right up as soon as it goes down. Too much in one feeding and his stomach was too empty to tolerate the raw. The problem for me is that Pipsqueak will NOT eat the Halo (:shocker:... I know) OR the S&C freeze-dried Chicken. But of course, he would LOVE LOVE some dry kibble to tide him over.

 

[auntie crazy]

You could also try Whole Life's freeze-dried chicken as an enticement or treat. It's what I use and none of my six can resist it.

AC

 

[ldg]

6oz for Hope, who is 13lbs, and 6.75 oz for Bugsy, who is 20lbs. This is the most I can feed Bugsy..... he is not gaining nor losing weight - he is keeping...... Hope on the other hand, is gaining, as she keeps eating the bites left off from Bugsy ::smshfrk:
To preventing Bugsy from thrwoing up, I am now starting to give him Halo treats in between meals - so is kelly, but not many - just a couple pieces, rehydrated...... for chewing :nod: and only in between the long periods without food.
IMHO it depends on the weight of the cat, but also on the activity level and the lean weight - Bugsy's lean weight is NOT 20lbs, and he is a total couch potato. Different from Hope, who is much more active, for example :nod:

So Carolina, are you going to start giving them less food, so they start to take off some weight?

 

[ldg]

Laurie EXCELLENT post earlier - and I feel SO good hearing about how much you are feeding - and when. I am going through the exact same thing here. I also HAD to stop leaving dry out last year because Wendall and Walden are just like Billy - gorging little piggies . That is when I went to scheduled meals. I could easily start feeding four meals a day too - but my problem is Perla - she really only has an appetite twice daily - very odd...... I don't get it and it worries me for some reason. BUT I just might start doing exactly what you are doing :nod: Bump to four feedings a day at one ounce or so each :nod: I think I won't worry so much about puking either that way. Hopefully Perla will get in on the "raw feasts" too. :cross: OR - I might add one snack during the day of the S&C freeze-dried Chicken or Chicken/Salmon. OH BOY SO many choices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU for sharing all of that important information with us. Between you and your calculations and AC's expert calculations - I feel very reassured that I am on the right path as far as amounts to feed each cat.

:lol3: I'm glad someone besides me appreciated all that information. Talking it through with AC, and working it out for me I think was a good exercise. My theory is that given they can pretty much all stand to lose a little weight, I'd rather be slightly underfeeding and see what happens. And I just have to concentrate on Shel finishing his meals better. :nod:

OH - I did measure the amounts at lunch. Turns out I was pretty much spot on in my guesstimations. So the only one I'm going to track is Shelly. I'm going to keep track of what he doesn't eat, so I know how much is going in him.

GREAT NEWS all around at your place!! :happy3: SOO SOO SOO glad everything is going well, sweetie :heart3: NOW GO AND GET SOME MORE RAW

OK, we got more food! I'm not that excited - he'd sold the S&C duck, and didn't have more. He did order the NV chubs for us - and as I have exactly one rabbit patty left, I had no choice but to get more NV rabbit. I had to buy the bag of medallions, as it's only 3 pounds, and the 6 pound bag of patties would NOT fit in the freezer right now. :lol3:

So I'm not excited that all I have for a little while here is NV. BUT I feel better knowing their poops are supposed to be crumbly like this. :lol3: I haven't seen anyone go to the bathroom lately - I just hope no one is straining. :cross: Oh - and I do have the S&C lamb to include in rotation. :nod:

BUT - I now have four proteins. Chicken (four pounds), beef (four pounds), rabbit (3 pounds), and lamb (2 pounds). (Just shy of what I need for a week).

Jim's ordering (Primal) turkey and S&C duck for me (for delivery next Tues to the store). In retrospect, I wish I hadn't asked him to order the NV chicken chubs. I just thought they'd fit in the fridge/feezer better (they do), and I was worried they won't like beef (they might not, I don't know for sure yet), but I'd rather be using the Vital Essences chicken. I'll make sure he can sell the NV chicken chubs to others - I won't stick him with it. (They come in a box of.. .12? I took home two pounds of each, beef and chicken).

I hacked up one of the chicken chubs into four ounce chunks(8 ounces each) - easier to manage that way. It's in the fridge. I sliced two of those into 2 oz chunks, because I decided to introduce beef tonight. So I sliced off an approximate 2 oz chunk from a beef chub - and we should be good to go shortly.

I did slice of a little sliver of the beef chub, and just walk around offering a little to everyone as a treat. Billy completely bonked out. :lol3: And Flowerbelle who often turns her nose up at things - well - she's just a red meat lover, I think. We'll see!

Dinner tonight will be 75% chicken, 25% beef.

***********************

I also came home with a pile of "other" stuff. *sigh* THAT is one thing I did NOT factor into raw feeding - the cost of the transition. :lol3: I bought some canned food just to make sure there's something to eat if for any reason we can't get to the store. I came home with two jars of Halo chicken (and that stuff is just expensive, sorry) - but it helps everyone (other than Flowerbelle) finish their meals. I still have dried liver to crush on top (takes very little - that goes a long way), and I came home with freeze dried turkey meat, which I'll also be able to crush on top as a "finish this!" enticement. :nod:

And I was AMAZED - the S&C chicken (dehydrated) I ordered was HERE today! It said to expect delivery between NEXT tuesday and Friday - I did NOT pay for expedited! I am VERY excited about that. So now I have a quick alternative to canned food for Lazlo's "between meal" eating - either rehydrated or dehydrated.

Gary asked me if I was SURE this was going to cost the same or less. :lol3: I told him yes - eventually. HOPEFULLY next month. I am really, really hoping that I won't need to buy any more fortiflora, halo chicken OR canned food (though we'll probably always keep some on hand just in case of emergency). The S&C dehydrated.... I'll probably need to keep getting for Lazlo. I should contact them to make sure it's OK to use one bag over 2-3 weeks.

 

[ldg]

75% chicken and 25% beef dinner was a hit for all of them except Spooky and Shel. Spook does this - not want to eat sometimes. She makes up for at the next meal usually, so I don't know that it was the food.

And Shel? I don't know what's up with him. He had a couple of bites, and it did NOT matter what I did to it, he didn't want to eat it. But he was hungry - he ate some S&C rehydrated, he ate some Halo - both dry and rehydrated, and some turkey treats, again, both dry and rehydrated. :dk:

I'm not giving him more food. I'll feed them rabbit for the late night meal and see what happens.

I didn't think to feel how cold the food was - I'd smooshed it around in warm water. But it might have been a little chilly. I'm wondering if temperature is an issue for him.....

 

[feralvr]

You could also try Whole Life's freeze-dried chicken as an enticement or treat. It's what I use and none of my six can resist it.

AC

PERFECT!!!!!!!! Thank you

 

[feralvr]

Oh Laurie - you sound just me again :lol3: This transition is getting a bit expensive because I have to have both on hand too. Raw and wet. I want to try beef too but afraid they won't like it. What beef did you buy??? was it the NV - do they even make a beef. I didn't know about the NV chubs. I bet those are a bit cheaper too, huh? I also have noticed the poops are a bit more "crumbly" - glad to hear it is not just my babies with poop like that Good to know :nod: This is SO hard with the picky cats, isn't it - like your Spook and Shel. Perla and Pipsqueak are the worst. Presley comes in second. Perkins really seems to eat well for me, thank goodness. Walden and Wendall - well - I wish they were all like those two. They are my excellent eater's and clean their plate. I also wonder if the "cool" meat is not appealing to Perla and Pipsqueak.... but I don't want it to sit out too long. It is just trial and error at this point in the transition. It is such a worry to me when they don't eat much and then walk away ..... I have figured out to feed the dog's AFTER the cats :lol3: That way I am not wasting this "expensive" food - the boys are happy to eat it

I have a silly request.... :anon: Could you list what brands you are feeding too with each meal. For example :lol3: tonight you said they ate 75% chicken and 25% beef. I am assuming this is NV? Sorry, I just want to know how your cats are doing on specific brands. I will do the same. Carolina already does this, I think ....

 

[ldg]

Yep, she does. Right now, sadly, all I have is NV. OH - no, I still have S&C Lamb. :nod:

Actually, the prices Jim charges us, not his listed prices, it works out the same, roughly $4.50 per pound for NV - everything except the rabbit, which is $5.80 per pound. Online, the chubs cost much less per pound (the listed prices, without shipping). But shipping often adds 50% or more to the cost. Not always, I'm sure. I'm just pretty sure it's cheaper to have Jim order the stuff for us rather than order it online, so I haven't searched that hard for where to buy online at this point.

 

[ldg]

Well I had to log in from the phone (not starting up the laptop) because the late night meal went so well! Went for the fallback, NV rabbit (it was also the most dethawed). I set up alarms for myself so I take the food out of the fridge to let it warm up properly for meal time.

Everyone but Spooky and Flowerbelle finished everything.

Spooky left about 1/3; Shel ate most of that! (Lazlo finished it off ).

Flowerbelle left about 1/4, and Tuxie ate all of that! :bigthumb:

In the morning, we're trying beef again, but at a 50/50 mix with chicken, both NV.

Oh, last thing. The late night meal was definitely warmer than cool. :lol3: Not my definition of warm, but definitely NO chill to it. Total eating time was about 10 minutes.

 

[carolina]

So Carolina, are you going to start giving them less food, so they start to take off some weight?

no.... not yet.... this is pretty much 2% of body weight for Bugsy.... I think I need to give him more time - I am sure he will lose weight given the time, being off all the carbs from kibbles, etc..... :nod:
I want to play safe for a while....

 

[feralvr]

Yep, she does. Right now, sadly, all I have is NV. OH - no, I still have S&C Lamb. :nod:
Actually, the prices Jim charges us, not his listed prices, it works out the same, roughly $4.50 per pound for NV - everything except the rabbit, which is $5.80 per pound. Online, the chubs cost much less per pound (the listed prices, without shipping). But shipping often adds 50% or more to the cost. Not always, I'm sure. I'm just pretty sure it's cheaper to have Jim order the stuff for us rather than order it online, so I haven't searched that hard for where to buy online at this point.

SUPER price from Jim. I pay a bit more per pound through Four Legs. 3 pound of NV Chicken is about $18.00 and 3 Pound of Rabbit about $22.00. I am SO glad you have Jim - he sounds just great . I am going to check out another natural store. The one that sells the Primal .

 

[feralvr]

Well I had to log in from the phone (not starting up the laptop) because the late night meal went so well! Went for the fallback, NV rabbit (it was also the most dethawed). I set up alarms for myself so I take the food out of the fridge to let it warm up properly for meal time.
Everyone but Spooky and Flowerbelle finished everything.
Spooky left about 1/3; Shel ate most of that! (Lazlo finished it off ).
Flowerbelle left about 1/4, and Tuxie ate all of that! :bigthumb:
In the morning, we're trying beef again, but at a 50/50 mix with chicken, both NV.
Oh, last thing. The late night meal was definitely warmer than cool. :lol3: Not my definition of warm, but definitely NO chill to it. Total eating time was about 10 minutes.

YAY for Shel - what a good boy and making momma SO happy . I am also trying to let the meat get to at least "room" temperature before I feed now. I am planning my time accordingly for that Glad all went well last night :happy3: :rub:

 

[ldg]

First, Lazlo woke me at 6:30 for food. I grabbed the Halo, gave him a couple of pieces (not rehydrated) and went back to sleep. He was happy, his tummy was happy, and that makes me happy. And I got to barely wake up to deal with it. :lol3:

THEN it was time for breakfast.

OK - HOW many times has Carolina told us to introduce slowly? And HOW many times did I say I should? So exactly WHY did I not learn from Carolina's and Lauren's experiences and jump to 50/50 NV chicken and beef this morning?

I experimented. I plopped half the chicken on one side, and half the beef on the other. No mixing water, no toppers, and put it down for them to eat.

Flowerbelle, Lazlo, Shel, and Tuxie took a couple of licks and looked at me like - I'm supposed to eat this?

So I mixed theirs with water and put on their respective toppers. Tuxie dove in, Lazlo dove in, Flowerbelle dove in. Tuxie ate all of his, Flowerbelle ate ALL of hers (!!!), and Lazlo ate most of his. I let Spooky finish Lazlo's because she didn't eat dinner at all yesterday, and didn't eat all of her last meal last night.

Shel needed fussing to eat most of his.

And then he promptly threw it all up. :lol3:

What I'm failing to get here is my thinking. When introducing a new kibble, I would transition over a WEEK. So exactly why do I think new raw proteins can just be thrown at them in these quantities? :scratch:

The good news is he likes the beef, he ate it first. :lol3: So I just need to back up and take incorporating it more slowly.

 

[carolina]

First, Lazlo woke me at 6:30 for food. I grabbed the Halo, gave him a couple of pieces (not rehydrated) and went back to sleep. He was happy, his tummy was happy, and that makes me happy. And I got to barely wake up to deal with it. :lol3:
THEN it was time for breakfast.
OK - HOW many times has Carolina told us to introduce slowly? And HOW many times did I say I should? So exactly WHY did I not learn from Carolina's and Lauren's experiences and jump to 50/50 NV chicken and beef this morning?
I experimented. I plopped half the chicken on one side, and half the beef on the other. No mixing water, no toppers, and put it down for them to eat.
Flowerbelle, Lazlo, Shel, and Tuxie took a couple of licks and looked at me like - I'm supposed to eat this?
So I mixed theirs with water and put on their respective toppers. Tuxie dove in, Lazlo dove in, Flowerbelle dove in. Tuxie ate all of his, Flowerbelle ate ALL of hers (!!!), and Lazlo ate most of his. I let Spooky finish Lazlo's because she didn't eat dinner at all yesterday, and didn't eat all of her last meal last night.
Shel needed fussing to eat most of his.
And then he promptly threw it all up. :lol3:
What I'm failing to get here is my thinking. When introducing a new kibble, I would transition over a WEEK. So exactly why do I think new raw proteins can just be thrown at them in these quantities? :scratch:
The good news is he likes the beef, he ate it first. :lol3: So I just need to back up and take incorporating it more slowly.

I think the sure way to learn about slow introductions is to clean up raw puke - NOT fun
Yeah......... for sure it is needed..... raw is nothing like wet food, I have learned that really quickly :nod: I think we have that impression because.... well.... it IS wet, after all..... but it is very protein rich..... Kitty got to have those enzymes ready and going to digest all that. Once they do though..... It is game on and you can rotate them without an issue :bigthumb:

 

[ldg]

LOL, we had a nice, safe, breakfast of NV chicken only. Lunch was lamb - it was the only thing dethawed enough. :lol3: Dinner was NV rabbit. (NV is all I have right now! :slant: ).

Spooky's not eating well now... I started to wonder if it was the raw. But she's (overall) been eating fine - no fussing, no toppers needed for the most part. I quickly made her some canned without everyone noticing, but she didn't want that either. :dk: I'll be keeping an eye on her.

Shelly's fine - finished 3/4 of breakfast and lunch (the lamb took some convincing LOL), and ate most of dinner.

I'll start over with the beef tomorrow at 25%.

 

[feralvr]

I think the sure way to learn about slow introductions is to clean up raw puke - NOT fun
Yeah......... for sure it is needed..... raw is nothing like wet food, I have learned that really quickly :nod: I think we have that impression because.... well.... it IS wet, after all..... but it is very protein rich..... Kitty got to have those enzymes ready and going to digest all that. Once they do though..... It is game on and you can rotate them without an issue :bigthumb:

TOTALLY - I learned my lesson not only once but twice this week :anon: :nausea: I also figured that raw was considered the same as wet so BOOM - New protein, New brand - No problem ( :lol3: So I thought.... ) NEVER again will I go that fast with intros.

Hopefully, Laurie, you won't need to learn it twice like I did.

I think we need extra of these tonight :sun: :sun: :heart3: :sun: ........... ..............

 

[feralvr]

LOL, we had a nice, safe, breakfast of NV chicken only. Lunch was lamb - it was the only thing dethawed enough. :lol3: Dinner was NV rabbit. (NV is all I have right now! :slant: ).
Spooky's not eating well now... I started to wonder if it was the raw. But she's (overall) been eating fine - no fussing, no toppers needed for the most part. I quickly made her some canned without everyone noticing, but she didn't want that either. :dk: I'll be keeping an eye on her.
Shelly's fine - finished 3/4 of breakfast and lunch (the lamb took some convincing LOL), and ate most of dinner.
I'll start over with the beef tomorrow at 25%.

For Spooky... Why do these babies continually worry us so :dk:.... I think we are all on "high alert" right now just because of this transition and wanting to watch every move - good, bad and otherwise

:cross: for the BEEF..... :slant:.... I never made it to the new store today ... will drag Larry with me tomorrow. He is learning all about raw feeding too - OR should I say "I am convincing him too - along with the furbabies"

 

[ldg]

Well, we are overdue for an update, and there's a lot of catching up to do, because the poop-o-meter had a problem last night!

I fed them NV chicken for the late night meal. Everyone ate. BUT - Lazlo had 2 or 3 bites. I couldn't get him to any more. Well, it became clear quite quickly why. He jumped down and threw up. He got up a large hairball (and it looked like something broken in half, so I think there's more in there. ).

Then right after that, he went to the box and had diarrhea.

Given he's on only raw - not even canned food since the morning before (though Instinct and Evo have essentially no carbs) - thanks to AC, I know the food should be moving through him in about 12-13 hours. *nod* Now - his GI system may be somewhat compromised given the tumor in his stomach. And as he threw up exactly the couple of bites of chicken, the hairball, and TWO sucralfate pills, something's up. I give him sucralfate at night after the last meal, and in the morning at the time of their first meal. But his stomach was otherwise empty of food.

As so many kitties have trouble with beef, while Shelly's expressed his problem with it right away by throwing up, I think Lazlo's issue with the beef was at the other end. (And throughout this journey with the lymphoma - stomach tumor - diarrhea has never been a problem).

No NV beef for a little while until I'm sure that's what the problem was. If it was any other kitty, I might continue to include it at a smaller percent. But this is our Lazlo. :heart3: His body doesn't need the stress.

The GOOD news, however, is that Spooky was happy to eat her food and Lazlo's. :lol3: Shel and Tux ate all of theirs without much fussing either.

SO ... I was up until really late for me last night. The good news was that shortly after the vomiting/diarrhea issue, he was on Gary's lap, enjoying pets and acting just fine. In fact, he woke me up at 6:30 for food this morning. :lol3: I gave him Halo Chicken treats.

But I could NOT deal with walking up enough to warm up food from the fridge at breakfast. :anon: I gave them canned. Instinct Turkey. Everyone ate just fine, including Lazlo.

So it was NV rabbit for lunch. Lazlo, Spooky, and Shel each left about 1/3 of their food behind. But I'm a happy camper.

Lazlo was playing, and has been pestering me for food all afternoon. So I'm thinking - and hoping - that was all it took to get it out of his system.

Of course, I've been watching the boxes like a hawk today. The other good news is that Billy, Spooky, Tuxie, and Chumley are all pooping great! :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:

They'll be having NV chicken for dinner.

 

[ldg]

Oh - I really HAVE to add - even though everyone ate so well at breakfast, it WAS canned. And though this shouldn't surprise me, everyone - particularly Flowerbelle - was pestering me for more food all morning. The difference between canned and raw really is stark.

And I haven't provided any behavior updates recently.

That's because they're the same!

Spooky no longer seems bothered by Chumley.
Tuxie doesn't seem to feel the need to beat anyone up - especially Ming Loy - any more.
Chumley's been sleeping on the bed. He's done this before, but he always seems very... "on alert" when there are a lot of other kitties in here. He seems MUCH more relaxed! And this was often where there were issues with Spooky. In fact, he slept on my pillow last night. :heart3:
Lazlo keeps an eye on Bill - but no more bopping, and Billy's not doing any more slinking around him.
The new one last night? Sheldon decided to groom Flowerbelle, extensively. :lol3: She wasn't too into it, but didn't stop him.

 

[feralvr]

Shel grooming Flowerbelle and How funny - I can just imagine the look on Flowerbelle's face - but you know these rincess: ... they have to put up a bit of a fuss even if they are enjoying it

Laurie - I think it if just fine to break out the canned - especially the EVO and Instinct :nod: - as close to raw as you can get IMO. Believe me, I have used that as a fall-back as well. This is not an easy, simple switch - not in the least - BUT the changes I have seen also in my cats makes it SO worth the ups and downs.... the :nausea: and the :lovegrin2::9: - .... you know what I mean :lol3: I also will not be trying beef anytime soon. In fact with Pip - I am only sticking to NV rabbit and NV chicken right now. He does great on those. Although - I am waiting about four more days to start him up again, as you know my reasons. I never made it to the new natural store today - so no Primal. I will go on Monday. Hoping the Pipster will tolerate Primal better than Nature's Logic. :nod: My poor little man - a rough week for him for sure.

YAY for Spooky - getting some leftovers and how nice of Lazlo to share..... I am sorry our sweet boy Lazlo had a bit of trouble today .... It is a bit like Russian Roulette, isn't it.... when we try a new protein/brand..... ......................... ................................