Started them on raw tonight :D

[ldg]

Yeah, and when we increase it too quickly! :lol3: :anon:

Everyone did great all day today! I fed NV rabbit at lunch, NV chicken at dinner, and NV rabbit for the late night meal. This last one, EVERYONE ATE EVERYTHING. Except Lazlo - but he'd been snacking all evening and afternoon. :anon: :lol3: He left about 1/3. Tuxie and Shel were happy to finish it up for him.

 

[feralvr]

:lol3: Lazlo loves his snacks I guess SO glad you had a great day yesterday. Will check in later for another great update

 

[ldg]

Well, Lazlo had just a tiny bit of diarrhea again last night. Seems the beef is working its way out of his system. :cross: :nod: I decided to feed him the protein he does best on until I'm confident his tummy is all setted down - you got it, rabbit! :lol3: I prefer rotating... but let's just let things settle.

Breakfast - everyone ate everything again. :lol3: (NV rabbit). Lazlo did leave about 1/3, which Tuxie, Spook and Shel were happy to finish. But Gary fed him halo chicken at his usual hour, 6:30. :lol3:

And yes, Lazlo loves his snacks. He never liked the timed meals. They stressed him quite a bit, and I'm pretty sure that's what gave him the ulcers, I forced it on everyone too quickly. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't force it the way I did. BUT.... can't go back, can only learn. So Lazlo is spoiled and gets food whenever he wants.... but as our little cancer baby, I wouldn't have it any other way. :heart3: :rub:

As we're giving NV rabbit all day... (because of our limited freezer space, it just makes it so much easier to feed everyone the same thing), lunch obviously went well. :lol3: Spooky didn't eat, but I get her pattern now. She really only likes to eat a LOT twice a day. So I expect she'll have a good dinner, then not want to eat much for the late night meal. We'll see - but that's been her pattern for quite a few days now. I may just alter how I feed - keeping her portion of the meal she doesn't eat in the fridge and just ADD it to the meal she does eat. We'll see.

 

[ldg]

OK! Like yesterday, Lazlo seems just fine today! We'll have to see if he poops at all later tonight - he hasn't all day. The only new cat I have to add to the list that I've seen pooping is Shelly, and things looked the way they're supposed to! :lol3:

Again, we're doing NV rabbit all day, and all is well! Spooky didn't eat her lunch, like I said, but she did GREAT at dinner! Lazlo left about 1/3 of his - she was happy to eat it. Shel left a couple of bites, Tuxie left a couple of bites, and Flowerbelle left a couple of bites.

But as I suspect they don't really need 2.5% of their body weight - I'm must doing it because AC warned me very few cats need just 2%, I'm not going to be surprised if the kitties don't always finish all their food at meals.

With my 2.5% calc (for everyone but Billy - 2%; and Flowerbelle - 3%), I feed exactly 2 pounds of food a day.

If, as I suspect, they generally only need 2% (except Flowerbelle who probably needs 3%) (plus the raw treats here and there), on average, over time, they should be leaving 5 ounces of food uneaten every day (at 2% for everyone and Flowerbelle at 3%, it works out to 27 ounces of food). On average, they're leaving about 0.5 - 0.8 ounces uneaten at every meal (adjusted for Spooky eating twice as much, 2 meals a day) - which is on track for a bit more than my 2% estimate, but definitely less than the 2.5%. :dk: We'll just see. Lazlo gets his chemo treatment tomorrow (knock wood), so we'll find out how much he weighs. And It'll be two days short of two weeks on raw.

Flowerbelle gets weighed on Feb 15 when she's back for a check-up on her heart murmur/blood pressure... and it'll have been a month on mostly raw (the first couple of days were 50/50 mix with canend) so we'll see what's happened to her weight.

But we are basically 100% raw for a day or two more than a week now. Yeah, I had my lazy slip-up yesterday morning, but given everyone's eating raw and happily - and even the treats I give them now are only raw treats (dehydrated turky, chicken, S&C chicken, or liver) - and they don't even BOTHER me for kibble anymore (even Lazlo and Tuxie aren't asking for food right after dinner any longer, and Flowerbelle no longer tosses stuff off of tables after meals - well - other than yesterday morning when they got canned :anon: ) ... I'm thinking I've got me some CARNIVORES! RAWR!

 

[momto4kitties]

I will we had patogen free raw here in PR, it would be much safer for my Lucas, but we don;t have that  But I"m just so glad to read about how well your kitties are doing on raw!! Yay!

 

[feralvr]

Gotta dance for this news!!!! AND gotta love the !!!!!!!!!! Ok - after my meltdown this morning - we are back on track. Pipsqueak, Like Lazlo, will only eat NV rabbit right now - he seems to have NO problems with that. PLUS!!!! I just got some ....... :anon: Oops.... I will update all of this in my own thread ..... BUT I am excited again and hopeful to continue on the wonderful raw journey. I am glad you had a great RABBIT day....... OH I found out there is a shortage on rabbits and that production will be more scarce - that is what I heard from the lady at the new store I went to. SO we had better get that freezer and stock up on rabbit. I love your calculations too on feeding your babies - you are doing a fantastic job.......

For Lazlo tomorrow :cross:

 

[ldg]

A shortage of rabbit! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ldg]

OMG, that totally remind me, I forgot to tell you. We went to the pet food store today - I need more rabbit LOL. I also wanted to return the frozen beef chub - well - not "return" it, but ask him to keep it until I reintroduce it. We just have SUCH limited freezer space in the RV.

But they had NO RABBIT! So I came home with chicken. Some more NV chicken, and the Vital Essences chicken. They liked it and did well on it. We still have some S&C lamb. He does his ordering tomorrow. On tap: Primal Turkey, NV Rabbit, S&C duck, and S&C dehydrated chicken (for treats). So hopefully Laz's digestive system is all settled down now... :cross:

We have to head into NY Tuesday, and just in case we can't get back to the store until Thurs or Friday (it's not like it's right up the road or something LOL), I needed to have enough food on hand. I've got 8.5 pounds of food on hand, plus the last rabbit meal for tonight - so we can make it until Friday morning if we have to. :nod: They'll have two types of chicken and the S&C lamb until we can get there.

 

[feralvr]

OH NO.... SEE Rabbit shortage. I called another place this afternoon and that store owner confirmed that rabbit is hard to get right now... Maybe that is why it is more expensive too. I am thinking of running back to the other store I was at today, and buying up the last of her NV rabbit. Primal rabbit is very expensive. $34.oo for three pounds ..I need to have rabbit on hand, especially for Pipsqueak. I completely rearranged the freezer to be able to fit more bags. It is really fun shopping for raw for the babies. . I am counting on the Primal Turkey to be a hit with the kids, especially Pipsqueak, but ya never know with that kid I have the same things on tap :lol3: and waiting in the wings till things settle down. I think I went toooooooo fast and crazy trying too many new proteins and brands withIn the first two weeks My excitement got the best of me, the cat's were looking at me like "NOW what are you serving, AND WHY are you so happy about it". :bigmouth:

 

[ldg]

Yep, I called the Pet Supplies Plus over in PA - no rabbit.

And the kids were not overly excited about the NV chicken this morning (though it's never been their favorite, they all usually eat it fine). :slant:

We'll see what happens at lunch. I took out some Vital Essences chicken (which they seem to like better than the NV).

 

[feralvr]

I am glad you just mentioned the Vital Essences Chicken, I forgot that you have tried that.... Since our group of cats seem to like the same things - I might get the Vital Essences chicken instead of the NV Chicken too. MY dog's are having more and more raw meat to eat because of some of these proteins just not working for the cats - so the dogs get them. :lol3: I had better get to that store today and grab up that

Glad to hear breakfast was good though - I guess they can't LOVE everything we offer them. That's what the "toppings/drugs" are for :lol3:

 

[goingpostal]

Are you guys talking about vital essentials?  Not essences?  I've got the VE nuggets and finally got my cat to eat a couple which is amazing but haven't been able to find the frozen to buy.  Do all these places get rabbit from the same source or what is the deal with the shortage on commercial?  I had been looking into my options because rabbit is one of the few proteins my cat can eat and ordering $4 a pound rabbit from hare today adds up fast but thankfully found a source in my state that only wants $1.75/pound for skinned rabbit. 

 

[ldg]

Yes, sorry, Vital Essentials. :lol3: They make patties as well as those nuggets - and I think both are available as frozen or freeze-dried. We've been using the frozen - sorry you can't find it! They really prefer the Vital Essentials to the NV chicken. :nod: When we bought our first raw foods, the store owner gave us several sample bags of those (frozen) nuggets. The cats didn't want to eat those LOL. They can be smooshed up. But it's just easier to buy the patties.

And lunch wasn't much more of a hit than breakfast was. Chicken just isn't their favorite protein. I just don't want to be switching things up until I'm sure Lazlo's tummy is settled. There was the tiniest bit of diarrhea in the box today, and with formed (but wet) poop on top. I didn't see Lazlo leaving the box, but I'm sure it was him.

He had his last chemo treatment today. I brought the vet up-to-date. She wasn't concerned - she agrees. Either it was the beef not agreeing with him, or I brought something inside from the ferals outside. Obviously I'm to alert her if this doesn't clear up completely by tomorrow or Wednesday. But he felt and looked fine, no fever or anything. She was also pleased with his weight - 12.1 pounds. That's down from 12.6 a few weeks ago: but given he's had no kibble at all for about two weeks, she thinks we're on track (especially given his bladder was empty and he'd just gone #2). She wants him around 11.5 anyway, and I've targeted his ideal weight in feeding, which is what she wanted me to do.

Our trip to NY was moved to Thursday, so tomorrow afternoon hopefully we can pick up rabbit ( :cross: ) and Turkey. I know they can't eat only rabbit... but I want to introduce turkey, and I'd REALLY like to use rabbit as the base for mixing.

As to your question about sourcing rabbit... I don't know. NV sources from China. I don't know where Hare today sources - and there aren't a lot of commercial foods that offer rabbit.

There's Aunt Jeni's (but they have an 85:15 ratio of meat/bones/organs to other stuff);
Bravo basics (not balanced);
Fegnion;
Feline's Pride;
Nature's Logic (but it's in a 90:10 ratio of meat/bones/organs to other stuff);
Nature's Variety;
Paw Naturaw (but it includes pork liver); &
Primal.

 

[feralvr]

I am very glad that Lazlo was able to have his LAST treatment today AWWWW, sweetie, What a loooooooooong road it has been - you have been a rock through all of this for your baby boy :heart: Wonderful journey of love :heart3: I really DO hope the diarrhea clears by tomorrow. I totally get that you want thing's to settle down before moving on to another protein for Lazlo. It is a bumpy road starting this transition - figuring out which protein works best for each individual cat. AND it did take me about a day or so to figure out exactly WHO had the diarrhea too. Tricky with multiple kitties :nod: For a great night of raw feeding .

BTW - I drove all the way out to that new store - and someone just bought the last two bags of NV rabbit right before I arrived. I should have paid for them over the phone :nothappy:..... so I went to my usual store and they are going to order in a case as they are all out too. WELL - let's see if NV has any - because the other store said it would not be readily available until Mid- Feb.

 

[ldg]

Well, this not having enough freezer space is a real problem. :slant: No one ate dinner, the late night meal, or breakfast very well this morning. I'm rotating between NV chicken and Vital Essentials chicken though.

I haven't seen any more signs of diarrhea in the litter box... :dk: At least Lazlo was never in the kind of distress that "required" going more than once a day. Everyone else seems fine... I just have some hungry kitties. I've been giving them Halo chicken treats (which is getting really expensive), and S&C dehydrated chicken.

Jim's delivery comes today... I really hope he gets some rabbit in, so I can add that back to the mix, and basically start over with it as the base for introducing Turkey (assuming Lazlo's tummy is settled. :cross: ) and adding lamb back into the mix. We've been eating what we can out of the freezer to make more space. :lol3:

 

[carolina]

For Jim to have the Rabbit and for you to be able to get that freezer ASAP :cross: it seems that you really need it
Why have they not eaten well on those meals?

 

[feralvr]

You DO need that freezer :cross:..... Sorry the kids are not as voracious with their meals last night and this morning . I am sure they will be very hungry for lunch and hopefully will dig in and have clean plates so momma can be happy ... So hard when they are asking for different food.

NOW - I did find something out last night and you might want to try this too - when you are in a pinch. I checked out the S&C Dandy Lamb (dog) freeze-dried patties yesterday at the store. Exact same ingredients as the raw frozen. :nod: SO last night for the late night meal - I opened up the bag OMG I had cat's all over me - except for Pipsqueak. Seriously, it was incredible. They never act like that for the frozen raw lamb :dk:.. SO instead of EVO dry - they all got 1/2 soaked pattie of the freeze-dried S%C Lamb - AND they were begging for more.... so I allowed them to have another half (soaked) pattie. SO each cat had 1 whole pattie. Except for Pipsqueak - he absolutely hates freeze-dried anything This will be my late night bedtime meal from now on. The duck might be good too. Just a thought for you Laurie - just as a back-up. My cat's just loved it so very much - it was wonderful to see them so excited about eating.

 

[ldg]

That's interesting, Lauren. I might give it a try. :nod: Of course - have to order it from somewhere or have Jim order it.

And nope! No rabbit was delivered today! It was ordered - just not delivered!

Carolina - because of Lazlo having diarrhea on Friday night, I was feeding just one protein until I was sure his tummy was fine. NV Rabbit was what they all did best on, but I ran out of it on Saturday. That's all they ate all day. In the freezer, I had a little S&C lamb, NV chicken chubs, NV beef chub - which intro I took too quickly and that didn't work out so well LOL - and Vital Essentials chicken.

So as I wanted to feed them just one thing until I was sure Lazlo's tummy was settled - and he got his chemo treatment yesterday too - they ate either NV chicken or Vital Essentials chicken only Sunday, Monday, and this morning. They are SICK of chicken!

At lunch I went 50% chicken, 50% lamb. The last time they had lamb was Thursday at lunch. Ming Loy threw up lunch. I really don't know what's up, because Lazlo, Tuxedo, and Shel ALL refused to eat. They had MAYBE a couple of bites. And no amount of Fortiflora, Halo chicken, or crushed dried beef liver was going to change that.

At the pet store this afternoon, there was bad news all the way around.

Jim ordered the S&C dehydrated chicken for me - he thought I wanted that INSTEAD of the S&C frozen duck, not in addition to! So a little communication problem there. I called in advance, and he said he got the S&C in. Of course, I thought that meant the frozen raw duck.

NO NV RABBIT was delivered! Distributor doesn't know when they'll have it again. In fact - when I called Jim and found that out, I called every pet store that sells frozen within an HOUR drive radius - and NO ONE had rabbit! For the first time since I started the transition, I panicked LOL. I ordered Feline's Pride rabbit. With shipping it was VERY expensive, and totally out of budget. But I got VERY lucky on the timing - I already got a notice that it shipped. I ordered 5 pounds. Not sure when it'll get here, but at least it's on the way.

And he didn't order the Primal Turkey, because I said "patties," and it only comes in nuggets. OK - I appreciate his caution. Much better for him not to have to return it. :nod: So again... I'll have that at least at the store next week, we got that little misunderstanding sorted out. (And now he has our phone number LOL).

In the meantime... I can't keep feeding them only chicken! They were fine with the lamb up until last Thursday - I really didn't want to get it because of today, but had no choice, as I don't want to bother trying to introduce beef right now. My choices were NV venison (with beef heart), Bison, MORE chicken, or lamb.

BUT.... he carries Bravo. He had exactly ONE 2 pound rabbit "basic" (only rabbit meat and bone - no organs, not supplemented). I figured if I mix it with other stuff, it'll work as a short term solution. He also had the (Bravo) plain venison and the (Bravo) plain duck. Those only come in small chubs (just one pound). Since I want to introduce the S&C Duck (which he WILL have next Tuesday LOL), I came home with:

3 pounds - NV lamb medallions
2 pounds - NV chicken chub
2 pound Bravo rabbit basic (just rabbit & bone, not supplemented)
1 pound Bravo duck basic (again, not supplemented)
1 pound Bravo venison (just meat, no bone, not supplemented).

I would have gotten a couple more of the Bravo chubs - but that is ALL he had. I figure I can use the duck meat on Monday, to start the intro to the protein, then take over with the S&C duck.

I don't know why I got the venison. :lol3: I guess I was thinking that like the duck, I could use it to start an intro if I wanted to try NV vension? :dk: I'm not sure what the thinking was there. I was just looking at kitties that ONLY had chicken at home and are sick of it - and not enamored with the lamb: they got sick of it last week.

And I have 5 pounds of Feline's Pride rabbit winging its way to me. I need to use the rabbit as the "base" to introduce other stuff, just because it seems to be their favorite protein (so far). But while I was at the store, I had no idea when it was going to ship. I didn't pay for expedited or anything... and if it didn't ship until the end of the week....

Anyway, on hand, I already had:

1.5 pounds of Vital Essentials chicken patties, and
2 pounds of NV chicken

So I bought a bunch more Instinct cans: mostly rabbit, but some duck, venison, lamb and turkey. I hadn't fed them canned venison for a long time. The turkey they love (which is WHY I'm trying to get turkey raw!!!), and the duck they like sometimes.

So the minute we got home, I repackaged the NV lamb medallions so they fit (take them out of the jumble in the bag, put them in freezer storage ziplock baggies (marked with date and contents) and then they lay flat. Saves HEAPS of space.

I then cut the rabbit chub into 8 ounce pieces. :nod: One of those I cut in half, and I sliced up one of those 4 oz pieces VERY thin, and immediately put into a baggie in cold water to dethaw for dinner (which was supposed to be about 20 minutes from then LOL).

But that worked just fine. That dethawed really quickly. I split one large and one small Instinct canned rabbit (total, 8.5 ounces) and that 4 ounces of raw rabbit between them for dinner. I had 1.7 ounces of food leftover. :lol3: (I normally put out an ounce of food each (8 oz), and they usually leave 0.5 - 0.8 ounces uneaten). So they really needed that, I think. I feel like I took a step back here - but with chicken and lamb as their only other "already introduced" proteins... and the current chicken and lamb boycott - I felt I really didn't have much choice. :slant: So I'll do the same thing for their late night meal, I think. Not sure what I'll do in the morning... probably a raw chicken/raw rabbit split. We'll see.

 

[carolina]

Feline's Pride?
Girl..... you gotta go bankrupt on that rabbit
You really should look at Hare today - that's for sure my next stop...... as soon as I fully intro Nature's Menu - their meats are so cheap and such a good quality too! - Have you seen how many organs are in it?
Remember for tomorrow - and I know I am a BROKEN RECORD - Bravo Rabbit, even though is rabbit, is still a new brand..... I am not sure I would do 50/50..... Well.... I, Carolina, would not do it..... but then, It's just me :dk:

I know about being sick of chicken - not the favorite here either...... but I push it. I don't give them much of an option....
You know you can always also order Rad Cat from that site - I think they have free delivery after $60? - no rabbit though, but it is definitely a food the kitties here love love love - they only have lamb, chicken and turkey....
Hare Today is SO much cheaper though.....
I am praying the kitties will love Nature's Menu and later Hare today, for variety - can we say llama, duck, rabbit, pheasant, pork ($3/lb ), goose, turkey, quail, goat, beef, venison....... they have it all girl!

 

[feralvr]

OMG.....Agree Felines Pride..... Your babies are getting nothing but the best :nod:.... Today I was reading up on Dr. Pierson's website and she mentioned that Felines Pride is one of her favorites. So I looked it up, WOW..... Big bucks.... I will be waiting to hear how the kids like it. It would be worth it's weight in gold if they did.

Do be careful with the Bravo.... Juicy..... That is what I started feeding Wilbur last Fall and the cat's went crazy for the stuff. Might be a big hit with your gang. I am considering adding Bravo down the road, once I have these kitties eating raw well. :cross: For breakfast

Carolina, YES on the varieties :lol3:.... They have us trained SO well and demand variety. That makes this transition harder, at least in the beginning stages of introducing the new proteins and brands. Kitties say ........BORING...... :lol3: