Sebastian is Back at the Vet...Suspected Pancreatitis Again :(

[peaches08]

If your vet is concerned about bacteria and raw, Primal uses high pressure processing which kills pathogens.

 

[ldg]

Okay, the problem with the vet...I'm not really sure just how open-minded they are. I think they feel negatively towards raw. They know what I'm giving Sebastian up to this point, so nothing is secret, but the doc just might freak if I say I want to start him on raw.  I suppose this is where the holistic vet would come in; I do know they support raw.

I agree with Carolina, it is important that your vet know - and I doubt your vet will freak. You've got your reasons, just explain them. I remember when we decided to feed raw - we work with three different vets at different practices. The most traditional of the vets (but the best vet for diagnosis and the best surgeon) was leery - but when I assured him it was both "balanced & complete" and sterile, he was OK with giving it a try. (Our issue wasn't IBD, but Laz had cancer and was receiving chemo treatments, so had a compromised immune system).

 

[carolina]

Denice, just wanted to add.. . Metro used to work for Bugsy, until that he had this bacterial imbalance. Then it was nothing.
It was never a 3-day course though, and used on flares; it didn't resolve the issue, just the flare, then he would go back to being somewhat well.

 

[carolina]

I think this reinforces that there is no one size fits all solution to this.   Even though Patches had the vomiting and constipation the flagyl would work for him.  It would bring him out of a flare and I would try the different foods and he would be back to the vets with a flare again and another round of flagyl which would bring him out of it again.  I never tried raw but I would have him on a protein for several months and think I had found the solution and he would be sick again.  The only thing that has kept the problem in check for him is the low dose of a steroid.

Unfortunately I think there is simply no one right answer.  For Patches I really don't think it is a food intolerance.  I went through the different proteins for six years with him still having flares.  Hopefully Sebastian's can be controlled with a diet/probiotic mix.  That is certainly a much better solution than the steroid and the possible side effects from long term use.

Denice, some cats like yours can be taken off steroids after they go on raw. I am not going to push it, but since you never tried it, just know it might be an option for the future, if you decide to try, it happens often... Glad you do have a plan that is working, and I know how hard it is to change something that is working.... .

 

[goholistic]

Thanks, all, for your support and feedback! I appreciate it very much. 

I'll keep you posted on Sebastian's progress and "the discussion" with the doc. 

 

[stewball]

I really hope he starts to feel better soon and you too. Do you have pey insurance in America? What is primal?

 

[goholistic]

I really hope he starts to feel better soon and you too. Do you have pey insurance in America? What is primal?

Thanks again! I don't know what pey insurance is, so I'm not sure. Maybe not? 

  Primal is a commercial raw diet for cats and dogs (www.primalpetfoods.com).

 

[goholistic]

Oh...I forgot to mention something. Every other day or so, I'll give Sebastian a "mini" physical exam. 

  I'll check his ears, eyes, mouth, skin, belly, butt, etc. to make sure everything looks/feels okay. He doesn't mind. I just do it while I'm petting or brushing him. I'd love to have a baby scale to weigh him.

Well, I noticed that his ears look really good. This is mentionable because for the last several months (perhaps around the same time as everything else, or even before), I noticed a red rash with a rough surface in his left ear that would appear, go away, reappear. I figured it might be a [food] allergy. I had eliminated grains, fish, and beef. It seemed to get better, but I think it came back again. This was in June/July/August. I can't really remember exactly.  

  Anyway, it is still on the table that a food allergy (say to poultry, perhaps?) could be a contributing factor in all this. He's on the Pred (which would probably suppress any allergy-related symptom, anyway) and the hypoallergenic rabbit diet. Could a [new] food allergy cause such commotion and disruption in the GI system? From what I've read, usually eosinophils will be elevated with a food allergy. 

I still strongly feel he has a bacterial imbalance (regardless of what caused it), so I will continue to address that. The "acute-ness" of his pancreatitis just a few weeks after receiving all those medications from his dental still leaves this at the top of my list.

And then, of course, there's the "All of the Above" option. 

 

[stewball]

How is Sebastian?

 

[goholistic]

Thanks for asking. He continues to eat well (the rabbit diet). Today is the day that his prednisolone was lowered from 6.125 mg to 5 mg. This makes me nervous since he has been doing well, and I fear that the inflammation will return at a lower dose. I really hope I'm wrong.  

 

I'm a little concerned about his bowel movements. They are now solid, but he goes more frequently, and they seem a little "unprocessed" and stinky. A few times I found a couple knats flying around his (and only his) BMs, which indicate they're still pretty "meaty." Sorry to be so descriptive. I'm wondering if he's not digesting properly. I may need to considering putting him on digestive enzymes.

I'm also continuing to give him 1/4 tablet of Pepcid in the same gel cap as the Pred. Anyone have any thoughts on if I should continue the Pepcid?

He still gets his sub-q fluids every other day, and I'm working up a nighttime concoction (slippery elm, etc.) to add to his regime since I am only pilling him in the morning now.

 

[ldg]

That's great his appetite remains healthy!

...In addition to digestive enzymes, what about a shot of B-12? If he does have IBD, nutrient absorption could be part of the problem with the gut bacteria balance... the B-12 may help. :dk:

he continues to do well on the lower dose of pred!

 

[goholistic]

Thanks for the vibes, LDG! I am getting nervous. 

  It's only been one day since the lowered dose of Pred and he's already walked away from his food before finishing. He did eventually go back and finish, but I guess I was really get used to him scarfing his food up the past week, and would love for him to eat so enthusiastically every time.

Sebastian is already getting weekly B12 shots. Here's his current regime:

DAILY

Morning - 5 mg Prenisolone, 1/4 tablet Pepcid AC, 200 mg L-lysine, 1 capsule probiotics

Evening - 200 mg L-lysine, 1 capsule probiotics

Late Night - 1/2 capsule Slippery Elm Balk, 1/2 capsule Marshmallow Root

EVERY OTHER DAY

100 ml sub-q fluids

WEEKLY

B12 shots

I'm looking into purchasing digestive enzymes. I've stopped the Benefiber. I tried Milk Thistle for liver support, but he hates it (tried both the powder in a capsule and the liquid extract). I am also trying to incorporate Omega-3s into the mix somewhere, but I am not having any luck. I have tried 2 different kinds of salmon oil and 3 different fish oils from small fish. They are all overpowering and make his wet food smell and taste like the oil, even only a couple drops.

Any suggestions for other anti-inflammatory / digestive health supplements? 

  I had considered an antioxidant supplement, such as Vetri-Science Cell Advance. 

 

[ldg]

Maybe keep him on the 7.5mg for a longer period? :dk:

FYI, Laz is on a maintenance dose of pred now, but he was on 5mg for over a year, and now I've got him on 2.5mg daily. And our Tuxedo, who had IMHA (immune-modulated hemolytic anemia) was on the upper end strength of depo shots for.... years. And on steroids a total of eight years. Most cats really do handle even long term use of steroids well. When it's a quality of life issue....

Oh - someone was looking for a less overpowering krill oil, and found one. Let me get the link.

Yeah... he's already getting pilled quite a bit. Flowerbelle needs her heart medication, but that's it. So I just pill her with the krill oil supplement, because she hates it - and the salmon oil. Everyone else, thankfully, eats the salmon oil dropped on their food. But yes, it is overpowering.

Here's the krill oil discussion: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263565/krill-oil-brand

 

[denice]

I would also be careful about reducing the pred too quickly.  I know Patches stayed on 10 mg for about 3 months.  His liver enzymes had been normal and he had been eating well for a good 6 weeks before the steroid was reduced.  There just isn't a substitute for the steroid among the supplements.

 

[carolina]

Food for thought: give it a day and see how he eats tomorrow on 5mg.... He might do just fine.... It might just be thay he needs to get used to it. If he doesn't get well again I a couple of days, call the vet and discuss going back to 7.5.
As for the fish oil... My finicky cats didn't eat fish oil, but have no issues with krill. I started with a tiny amount and built it up to a full 500mg gel cap a day.

 

[goholistic]

Oh...hmm...I didn't realize how long your cats were on a higher dose. Maybe we're tapering down too quickly. Thanks for your input. I will call the vet tomorrow. 

He did eat better tonight...walked away before the food was gone, but came back within a couple minutes to clean his plate.  Whew! 

Perhaps the doc's plan is to keep him on the 5 mg for a longer period. Initially, the doc thought 7.5 mg was a little high based on my feedback. On 7.5 mg, Sebastian was CRAZY and wanted nothing more than to eat non-stop all day. It was a bit ridiculous. So she had me take it down to 6.125 mg, and then to 5 mg. Anyway, I'll keep him on the 5 mg for now, discuss with the vet, and see how he does. 

Thanks for the info about Krill Oil. That was the one thing I haven't tried yet.

By the way, I ended up buying the Renew Life Ultimate Flora Advanced Immunity probiotic, which has the S. Boulardii. I did a little more digging on Arabinogalactans and it might be helpful to him. Apparently it feeds good bacteria in the gut and acts as an anti-inflammatory. I will start small to make sure it goes okay and gave him a 1/2 capsule tonight. I wasn't sure how he would like it in his food. I sprinkled just a little on his food and he didn't seem to notice it, but I gave him a 1/2 capsule by putting it in one of the small gel caps I bought. I will give him his regular probiotic (10 strains, 13 billion) in the morning and give him the Renew Life (1/2 capsule) at night. I have not yet bought the Nexabiotic. I have quite a shopping list of online purchases to make, so I'm planning to do it all at once. 

Thanks, again. I'm sure I'm annoying you all by now....but I appreciate your support!! 

 

[raintyger]

 
Any suggestions for other anti-inflammatory / digestive health supplements? 

  I had considered an antioxidant supplement, such as Vetri-Science Cell Advance. 

Have not have time to go through this entire thread, but coconut oil has anti-inflammatory properties. It also has anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties.

 

[raintyger]

You can also get refined coconut oil if Sebastian doesn't like the coconut taste, although most cats are reported to like coconut oil and lick it off fingers/spoons.

 

[stewball]

Have you been to a homeopathic doc? They don't tell you that you must stop the meds he's taking. It would be in addition to. It's always worth checking it out. You have such problems with your cats. I don't know if I could handle all what you're doing. My hat's off to all of you.

 

[ldg]

Well, if you're using the Renew Life, you don't need the Nexabiotic! :lol3:

...and why would you think you're annoying us? Anyone has the option of not reading or responding to the thread.

I just did a VERY quick search, and found there is one study on coconut oil and Crohn's Disease (summary article at Livestrong, but they have the report in references). http://www.livestrong.com/article/83218-coconut-oil-crohns-disease/