S.O.S Siamese Cat Refuses to Change!

[ldg]

My cat also has IBD. He has constipation and bleeding complications because of it. Raw exacerbated that issue.

Again, we addressed this several times - an unbalanced raw diet, fed incorrectly, with too much Calcium, exacerbated this issue - NOT a raw diet.

Some kitties with IBD do not do well with bones. Carolina discovered this in the testimonials at http://www.ibdkitties.net

IBD kitties all have different triggers and issues. Raw is not the right diet for all of them, and raw is certainly not a cure-all. But for many kitties with allergies and/or IBD, it resolves the problem created by the inflammation caused by the highly processed foods. If done correctly.

 

[bluebo]

Again, we addressed this several times - an unbalanced raw diet, fed incorrectly, with too much Calcium, exacerbated this issue - NOT a raw diet.
I also addressed this several times. It was unbalanced because he would not eat boneless meats. Therefore raw was useless for MY CAT.
Not true.... unfortunately - it does very little. Gizzards might help a little, but very little. It does work their jaws much more than their teeth.
It depends what size of chunks of meat they are eating and how tough they are.
Both my vets and their dentist - and trust me, they are very, very good. Only a procedure under anesthesia - a dental will be capable of a through cleaning under the gumline. I feed chunks of meat and wish very hard this was the case, but it is not.
Of course a vet will tell you this, how do you think they make money?
While I don't have full control, I have a heck lot more control than if I were feeding commercial pet food. I am feeding human grade, USDA inspected meats, and I know the source of each one of them. With Canned and kibble..... there you are talking no control, IMHO, at least to me. With the diet I feed, I have as much control as possible. And that is perfectly fine on my book.
A raw diet was useless for MY cat. I'm not concerned about YOUR cat I'm talking about MINE and other selects few cats that can't handle it.
Good for you..... Good for him - but isn't this the cat who has IBD, constipation and bleeding?
My cat had (HAD) constipation with bleeding and now that he is on the food I am currently feeding he is healthy as a horse!

Bold^^

 

[bluebo]

Actually, there are quite a few studies done on the dental aspects of kibble. Kibble does not provide any dental benefit unless specifically designed to do so. Cats do not "chew" kibble. Some may "crunch" it, but it shatters before it reaches the gum line (again, unless specifically designed not to). There are ... I think seven kibbles that provide some dental benefit.
I'm not sure what the pig vs. cat comparison is for? They have a completely different construction of their mouths and teeth. :dk: Pigs are omnivores, cats are carnivores. Cats' mouths are designed for ripping and tearing, and there are no digestive enzymes present in their saliva. Unlike with omnivores, digestion does not start in the mouth, it starts in the stomach. :dk:
http://www.fremontcosmetic-dentistry.com/patient-info/teeth-trivia/mammal-mandibles/
Pig:

Cat:

I wasn't talking about kibble providing dental benefits, I was talking about raw meat...
I didn't make a pig vs cat comparison. I think I may not have structured my sentences properly.
I was meaning that animals that you buy from the grocery store are not well taken care of, they live in abhorrent conditions, they are pumped full of antibiotics and steroids, they resort to cannibalism at times. Not only that, most raw meats are enhanced ( they are salted) which isn't good for animal to consume.
Raw meat is ideal for a cat. I'm agreeing with you and Carolina (almost seems like she doesn't understand...?) but I do think there are exceptions to every rule. Raw isn't good for my cat but it is for most.
Although I'm also a little leary of parasites/pathogens... tapeworms, pinworms, trichinosis, diphyllobothrium (seafood tapeworm), parasitic roundworm (anisakis simplex), sarcocystis (beef), toxoplasma gondii (beef) and the list goes on...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10831740

 

[carolina]

I wasn't talking about kibble providing dental benefits, I was talking about raw meat...
I didn't make a pig vs cat comparison. I think I may not have structured my sentences properly.
I was meaning that animals that you buy from the grocery store are not well taken care of, they live in abhorrent conditions, they are pumped full of antibiotics and steroids, they resort to cannibalism at times. Not only that, most raw meats are enhanced ( they are salted) which isn't good for animal to consume.
Raw meat is ideal for a cat. I'm agreeing with you and Carolina (almost seems like she doesn't understand...?) but I do think there are exceptions to every rule. Raw isn't good for my cat but it is for most.
Although I'm also a little leary of parasites/pathogens... tapeworms, pinworms, trichinosis, diphyllobothrium (seafood tapeworm), parasitic roundworm (anisakis simplex), sarcocystis (beef), toxoplasma gondii (beef) and the list goes on...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10831740

First of, I do understand, I speak English. And you must be having a really hard time structuring your sentences if you want me to take from your posts that you are agreeing with me.
The meat I feed is not treated the way you are saying. Is not Enhanced. You can still choose the meat you buy, and I do. I choose cage free vegetarian fed poultry, and pasture raised meats.
When I say I know where they come from, I mean I KNOW where they come from.
I am sorry your husband worked under such deplorable conditions - but his conditions don't make the World either.

To this comment of yours:

Of course a vet will tell you this, how do you think they make money?

No. I am not sure about your vets, but I am lucky to have honest vets, besides, if you noticed in my post, I have a dentist, which is a different vet, and they know it. No matter what they told me, they knew there was no money for them to make, as they were not the one doing the dental. The World is not as horrible as you think.

I am done here.
This thread is already way, way side tracked. IMHO if you want to talk raw, if you have questions, then open a thread on the raw forum. I already said all I had to say here.... The OP is probably taking nothing from this thread, and this is no longer helpful to his/her case. IMHO it has become another raw discussion. You don't want to feed raw, of course it is perfectly fine, and your choice entirely. As it is my choice to feed a raw diet to my cats. That's all there is to it.
There are many, many threads of how I feed my cats, a thread with over 1,000 post on my introduction to raw. You can look it all up, if you wish, or not in the raw forum. There are many threads of how others feed their cats, and many discussions on many topics.
The only reason why I have been responding here, is because I felt there were some information about raw and the way I feed my cats that called for an answer.
To the OP's benefits, this is it for me, in regards to raw, unless it is addressed by the OP, or someone else.

 

[Willowy]

I kinda think it's funny when people use abhorrent factory farm conditions as a reason for not feeding raw/homecooked. What meat do you think they make pet food out of?

 

[bluebo]

I kinda think it's funny when people use abhorrent factory farm conditions as a reason for not feeding raw/homecooked. What meat do you think they make pet food out of?

I guess my point is that raw feeders claim to be "natural". There is literally nothing natural about factory farmed animals. Nothing. Also, canned food is cooked. I don't have to be concerned about the parasites, but yes there are other things... lose/lose situation.

 

[bluebo]

First of, I do understand, I speak English. And you must be having a really hard time structuring your sentences if you want me to take from your posts that you are agreeing with me.
Well if you read English then go back to the numerous posts where I said a raw diet is an ideal diet. Not all cats do well on it because there are exceptions.
The meat I feed, is not treat with antibiotics, is not treated the way you are saying. Is not Enhanced. You can still choose the meat you buy, and I do. I choose cage free poultry, and pasture raised meats.
When I say I know where they come from, I mean I KNOW where they come from.
So you went to the farm where this meat was raised and slaughtered? How do you know it's not enhanced. Does it say non enhanced meat on the label.
I am sorry your husband worked under such deplorable conditions - but his conditions don't make the World either.
Generally the world is pretty crappy. If they can manipulate a person to make a buck, they will.
To this comment of yours:
No. I am not sure about your vets, but I am lucky to have honest vets, besides, if you noticed in my post, I have a dentist, which is a different vet, and they know it. No matter what they told me, they knew there was no money for them to make, as they were not the one doing the dental. The World is not as horrible as you think.
If being a dentist is their profession then I'm assuming they make money off of dealing with teeth, yes?
I am done here.
This thread is already way, way side tracked. IMHO if you want to talk raw, if you have questions, then open a thread on the raw forum. I already said all I had to say here.... The OP is probably taking nothing from this thread, and this is no longer helpful to his/her case. IMHO it has become another raw discussion. You don't want to feed raw, of course it is perfectly fine, and your choice entirely. As it is my choice to feed a raw diet to my cats. That's all there is to it.
I don't believe the OP was asking about raw....
There are many, many threads of how I feed my cats, a thread with over 1,000 post on my introduction to raw. You can look it all up, if you wish, or not in the raw forum. There are many threads of how others feed their cats, and many discussions on many topics.
The only reason why I have been responding here, is because I felt there were some information about raw and the way I feed my cats that called for an answer.
To the OP's benefits, this is it for me, in regards to raw, unless it is addressed by the OP, or someone else.

 

[carolina]

Yes, the meat says non-enhanced, and I also know the natural levels of sodium in the meat - I read the labels on the top of it to double check.

On the vets: I have two vets that are not my dentist and they both share the same opinion with my dentist. As I said there is no money for them to make on that deal.

Sorry your World is crappy. Mine isn't so.

 

[ldg]

I guess my point is that raw feeders claim to be "natural". There is literally nothing natural about factory farmed animals. Nothing. Also, canned food is cooked. I don't have to be concerned about the parasites, but yes there are other things... lose/lose situation.

No one here has made that claim. :dk:

As to the salt solution it's quite simple if not buying organic, pastured meat: check the amount of sodium.

..and given the incidence or probability parasites in human grade meat, I think the risk vs reward is a rather simple equation, especially once you understand what the greatest risk is (salmonella) and the cat or dog's ability to manage it. http://www.thecatsite.com/t/246595/avma-to-vote-to-take-a-stand-against-raw-feeding/90 post #95, or http://www.thecatsite.com/t/245431/dont-listen-to-tufts-university#post_3216259

There are a few commercial canned foods that are relatively species appropriate. Weruva claims to be human grade, though there is no official definition for that. In my first, or one of my first posts in this thread I made recommendations that may or may not be helpful, depending on their goals.

 

[AbbysMom]

This thread has gotten way off-topic, not that I am sure what the topic really is.

RAC44 - I'm just as confused as a lot of the other posters. You started the thread asking for help transitioning your cat off Purina, then have aggressively defended it and have called out everyone who has tried to help you and has commented they don't like Purina. :dk: If you want to discuss and debate cat food trends, please start another thread and state that is what you want to discuss.

If others want to debate the problems vs merits of raw food, start a thread about it, although I am sure you can find plenty if you do a search.

Also, there is no need for personal remarks. If you want to get personal, take it to PM.

 

[ldg]

RAC44, if you would like help identifying other foods - wet or dry - to feed your cat, we can help.

My suggestion is to look for high protein, low carb foods with limited ingredient lists.

Be aware that moist ingredients weigh more than dry, so even if "chicken" is listed as the first ingredient in any food, wet or dry, if there are subsequent dry ingredients (such as "meal" or "pea fiber," etc.), they likely provide more of the protein content than the wet ingredients listed earlier in the list.

Cats have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates and they cause problems such as obesity and diabetes. This is why it's best to try to avoid grains, potatoes, etc.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, that doesn't leave a lot of choices. But there are options, and you can always decide to research ingredients to make better informed choices about the "lesser evils" to choose, so to speak, as ingredients in your kitty's food. Links to information about which ingredients you may want to avoid (and why) can be provided if you're interested.

 

[pushylady]

This thread is now locked.