AVMA to vote to take a stand against raw feeding

It only makes me think even less of Purina and the Delta Society Pet Partners (what ever they are....).

And maybe boycott Purina (I feed Ritz raw; the feral/stray/dumped cat colony Friskies and dry food.)

LDG said:

Oh, and there's a petition up, if anyone wants to sign.

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Were you looking for one or planning to write your own on that website?

I probably would sign it if I had been feeding raw for years and a vet who favors it, but as you know, I am far from ready to make the switch so I don't know what my vet thinks.

Ritz said:

It only makes me think even less of Purina and the Delta Society Pet Partners (what ever they are....).

And maybe boycott Purina (I feed Ritz raw; the feral/stray/dumped cat colony Friskies and dry food.)

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Everyone who feeds raw is already boycotting most or all pet food companies, so I don't think it will help. Of course, it is smart to stop feeding Friskies for the health of your feral colony.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Were you looking for one or planning to write your own on that website?

I probably would sign it if I had been feeding raw for years and a vet who favors it, but as you know, I am far from ready to make the switch so I don't know what my vet thinks.

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:scratch: Why do you need to be a raw feeder (or even have a pet :lol3: ) to have an ideological problem with the AVMA doing this? Anyone can sign. And what does what your vet thinks about it have to do with anything?

I'm signed up at change.org and saw it on FB.

LDG said:

Oh, and there's a petition up, if anyone wants to sign.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ame...pet-owners-rights-to-feed-a-raw-meat-pet-food

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That petition states that the signers are asking

"Please support the right of educated and responsible pet owners to choose how they will feed their pets."  

For clarification, since there seems to be some confusion about what the AVMA policy means, the policy in no way affects pet owners right to feed raw. It could effect how vets respond if asked about raw feeding by a pet owner.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Everyone who feeds raw is already boycotting most or all pet food companies, so I don't think it will help.

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Wow, what a defeatist attitude. So why are you bothering, as one individual, to write to the FDA?

I like to try to live on principles that matter to me. My not buying milk doesn't stop factory farming of dairy cows, and my buying locally farmed eggs doesn't stop factory farming of chicken egg layers.

:dk: :scratch:

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Of course, it is smart to stop feeding Friskies for the health of your feral colony.

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It supplements what they eat. It's better than kibble. There would be hundreds of thousands fewer cats being TNRd if those of us that do the work and fund it out-of-pocket ourselves spent the money on food. Priorities matter, and ferals eat whole animal diets. None of the ferals I care for rely on the food I provide for 100% of their needs.

mschauer said:

That petition states that the signers are asking

"Please support the right of educated and responsible pet owners to choose how they will feed their pets."  


For clarification, since there seems to be some confusion about what the AVMA policy means, the policy in no way affects pet owners right to feed raw. It could effect how vets respond if asked about raw feeding by a pet owner.

Click to expand...

Well, your options are:

1) don't sign
2) ask them to correct the wording of the petition
3) create a better petition
3) write your own letter to the AVMA
4) do nothing, don't worry about it. :lol3:

LDG said:

mschauer said:

That petition states that the signers are asking

"Please support the right of educated and responsible pet owners to choose how they will feed their pets."  


For clarification, since there seems to be some confusion about what the AVMA policy means, the policy in no way affects pet owners right to feed raw. It could effect how vets respond if asked about raw feeding by a pet owner.

Click to expand...

Well, your options are:

1) don't sign
2) ask them to correct the wording of the petition
3) create a better petition
3) write your own letter to the AVMA
4) do nothing, don't worry about it.

Click to expand...

5) Post a clarification so people understand what they are signing.  

LDG said:

Wow, what a defeatist attitude. So why are you bothering, as one individual, to write to the FDA?

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That's what I'm trying to understand.

LDG said:

Wow, what a defeatist attitude. So why are you bothering, as one individual, to write to the FDA?
I like to try to live on principles that matter to me. My not buying milk doesn't stop factory farming of dairy cows, and my buying locally farmed eggs doesn't stop factory farming of chicken egg layers.

It supplements what they eat. It's better than kibble. There would be hundreds of thousands fewer cats being TNRd if those of us that do the work and fund it out-of-pocket ourselves spent the money on food. Priorities matter, and ferals eat whole animal diets. None of the ferals I care for rely on the food I provide for 100% of their needs.

Click to expand...

Milk and eggs purchases are affecting the industries and retailers enough to make companies change their rules on where they get cattle and chickens. However, the fact that they are human food products makes a big difference. Pet food companies probably don't care if beef comes from free-range cattle or not. But while I eat meat and eggs and drink milk, knowing being a vegan does not change anything for industries, of course I do understand why other people choose to be vegans.

The FDA letter is totally different. It is telling them why more and more people are feeding raw meat to their cats and dogs. Boycotting bad pet foods by feeding raw does not send a message to the FDA because they don't know the reasons for it. If they know why people are switcfhing pets to raw, maybe the FDA will realize a lot of money is at stake and pet food companies are losing customers because of all the crap that is supposed to be banned, but allowed to happen anyway. If other people who actually feed a raw diet to their cats also write to the FDA it might actually think and do something about it. If not, I will start a petition on change.org or a similar website.

LDG said:

Oh, and there's a petition up, if anyone wants to sign.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ame...pet-owners-rights-to-feed-a-raw-meat-pet-food

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Thanks, Laurie

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Milk and eggs purchases are affecting the industries and retailers enough to make companies change their rules on where they get cattle and chickens.

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Yes, and how do things like that start? With one caring person. :dk:

So what are you saying? You want to participate in something only if enough other people are participating that a difference can be made? So how does anything ever GET to that point? :lol3:

EmilyMayWilcha said:

However, the fact that they are human food products makes a big difference.

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Why?

EmilyMayWilcha said:

Pet food companies probably don't care if beef comes from free-range cattle or not.

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Some do. That's why companies like Nature's Variety, Aunt Jeni's, Paw Naturaw, etc. were STARTED.

:scratch:

EmilyMayWilcha said:

But while I eat meat and eggs and drink milk, knowing being a vegan does not change anything for industries, of course I do understand why other people choose to be vegans.

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Sorry, you lost me on this one.

EmilyMayWilcha said:

The FDA letter is totally different. It is telling them why more and more people are feeding raw meat to their cats and dogs. Boycotting bad pet foods by feeding raw does not send a message to the FDA because they don't know the reasons for it. If they know why people are switcfhing pets to raw, maybe the FDA will realize a lot of money is at stake and pet food companies are losing customers because of all the crap that is supposed to be banned, but allowed to happen anyway. If other people who actually feed a raw diet to their cats also write to the FDA it might actually think and do something about it.

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:scratch: You mean they don't know why people feed raw? They aren't aware of market share? Of course they do, of course they are.

There was enough of a stink made about the euthanized cats and dogs in pet foods for them to conduct a study. They found pentobarbitol, but no DNA from cats and dogs. Of course, I don't know how many foods were tested, or how you catch DNA of a cat or dog in a pet food. For all I know, what they did is akin to looking at a square foot of something the size of three football fields and not find any ticks, and declaring the area free of ticks. :dk:

But of course they know the issues. It's BECAUSE of the money in the pet food industry that things don't change - or that people like Susan Thixton are fighting a very uphill battle. Like I said earlier - the PFI in the U.S. is an $18 billion industry. The largest players are

1) Mars - the fifth largest private company in the country - with 2010 sales (total, not just pet food) of "just" $30 billion
2) Nestle, SA - a Swiss company, the largest food manufacturer in the world with 2011 total sales of $85.5 billion (USD)
3) Colgate Palmolive - 2011 sales of $16.7 billion
4) Proctor & Gamble - 2011 sales of $82.6 billion
5) Del Monte - another private company. Only data I have is 2009 sales: "just" $3.6 billion

I did a VERY quick look-up of pet food lobbying. I found lobbying for food/agribusiness in general: "During 2011, agribusiness, including the food industry, employed 1,081 federal lobbyists who were working for 443 clients at a cost of $123.6 million." http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/slicing-into-the-food-industrys-40-million-worth-of-lobbying/

I looked up the P&G quickly, and found they spent $4.13 million on lobbying in 2010. http://www.pg.com/en_US/company/global_structure_operations/governance/governance_political.shtml

Meanwhile, Nature's Variety is one of the largest providers of commercial raw food. A small private company, data is hard to come by. All I can find is that revenue estimates are between $100 million and $500 million. But given the estimate is that Commercial Raw represents about 3% of the U.S. Pet Food Industry, that is a TOTAL of $540 million in revenue - between ALL the commercial raw providers.

P&G spent 0.05% of its revenue on lobbying. If the entire commercial raw industry spent 0.05% on lobbying, that is $270,000.

This is why things don't change, not because the FDA isn't aware of the problems, the concerns, or why people feed raw.

Again, I encourage you to write you letter. I think when we want things to change, we need to take a stand, and we need to speak out, and we need to vote with our wallets. It all starts somewhere, and with some ONE.

:dk:

mschauer said:

5) Post a clarification so people understand what they are signing.  

Click to expand...

I posted info as to the existence of a petition as re: this issue. :dk: It's up to people to click on the link or not, and then to sign it or not. :scratch: Are you saying I should have posted more info so you wouldn't have bothered clicking on the link?

LDG said:

mschauer said:

5) Post a clarification so people understand what they are signing.  

Click to expand...

I posted info as to the existence of a petition as re: this issue.

It's up to people to click on the link or not, and then to sign it or not.

Are you saying I should have posted more info so you wouldn't have bothered clicking on the link?

Click to expand...

No, I wasn't asking you to do anything. You said that I had one of 4 options. I pointed out that there is a 5th :  For me to point out to any potential signers that the wording of the petition is deceptive because it implies that the "right" of raw feeders to feed raw is somehow in jeopardy when it is not. If anyone wants to sign the petition, more power to them. I just don't want anyone to think that if the proposed policy is adopted that it will somehow affect their ability to feed a raw diet because it won't.

OH! :lol3: Man, I'm not having good reading comprehension levels in this thread, am I? :lol3: :anon:

LDG said:

OH!

Man, I'm not having good reading comprehension levels in this thread, am I?

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Written communication is always a bear!  

Well, that's very kind, but it really doesn't account for the mix-up between AAFCO and AVMA. :lol3:

LDG said:

Well, that's very kind, but it really doesn't account for the mix-up between AAFCO and AVMA.

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Oh, no. That was just stupid.  

mschauer said:

Oh, no. That was just stupid.  

Click to expand...

(Sorry Laurie - I'm not laughing AT you, I'm laughing WITH you.

)

I went to Change.org wondering if online petitions actually make a difference. One of the successful petitions was stopping Bank of America's proposal to charge debit card users, so we have proof it works. Whether it convinces the AVMA raw food is better than kibbles or not probably depends on how many signatures it gets. For every 1,000 people feeding raw there are millions more feeding toxic junk foods. How powerful is 1,000 people? That is hard to say, but I expect the goal to be reached before the vote.