New cat wants to play but old cat wants none of it

[calicosrspecial]

I am so sorry to hear this.

How do they carry themselves? Tall, confident, tail up? Each of them? Or does one seem less confident?

Does he want to get at her to play only? If they can eat near each other without being aggressive it suggests they can get along. The fact he does eat with her near is a sign he is distracted by food to some degree.

When he reaches through the gate does it seem more play rather than aggressive? Is she more defensive or does she seem more offensive and aggressive to where she might hurt him? Can you tell if her claws are out if she swats at him? Have you ever seen fur pulled out?

Does he or she ever have negative body language when he or she is near (or about ready to go after the other one)? Things like hair up, ears back or low, dilated eyes?

How does she react? Other than hissing? Does she run away? Or does she stay her ground?

How do they act after he tries to "get to her"? Does she avoid the area? Hide? How long does it take for them to act like they normally do?

If he got to her what do you think would happen?

I know it is hard and frustrating. It sounds to me like there are a lot of positives. They can eat together, they use each others litter boxes, they enjoy being in each other's territory, and they have never really had a fight. That tells me that it is highly likely they will get along.

He is still a kitten, plenty of energy. My sense is he wants to play with her, she is still cautious or isn't interested in being bothered. Do you think she would really hurt him? Really fight with him?

The stakes at this point are very high.

Is there any way you can take and post a video of their interactions? If we feel confident enough that they could be together without fighting and hurting each other then we may need to consider getting them together and seeing how they interact (being ready with a pillow to disrupt a real fight).

If you do decide to take him to a shelter please try to find a true no kill shelter/rescue as most shelter cats end up being euthanized.

I know it is frustrating but I hope we can give it one last try. It usually looks a lot worse than it usually is but it is tough to know as I am not there in the situation. Please let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[Mamanyt1953]

First, thank you for trying so hard, here.
Now...if there has been no actual fur flying or blood on the floor, you are not dealing with actual cat fights. What they are doing is far more wearing on you than it is on them. It seems like they are establishing who is dominant and who is not. At that point, sometimes a cat's gotta say what a cat's gotta say, and sometimes human intervention prevents them from ever actually solving their issues.

I'm going to link a few articles for you. You may have already read them, but here they are:

Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats
Is Your Cat Stressed Out?
Potential Stressors In Cats - The Ultimate Checklist
You, Your Cat And Stress

10 Must-know Tips For Happy Living With A Shy Cat
16 Top Cat Experts Share Tips For Dealing With Timid Cats

The Dos And Don'ts Of Cat Behavior Modification
How To Set Healthy Boundaries For Your Cat

I know that I'm throwing a LOT at you, but I really want to see this kitten remain with you if at all possible.

 

[margd]

I've just read your entire thread and am really impressed with how hard you have tried to make this work. Since a third cat is out of the question, I only see two other options.

1. Talk to his vet about medication to calm him down. Since he only wants to play though, and is otherwise such a great cat, I would only do this as an absolute last resort. By absolute last resort, I mean taking him to the shelter.

2. Letting them fight it out as Mamanyt1953 suggested. I don't mean a bloody battle where everyone comes out needing medical treatment. If it gets that far, you do need to break it up. She needs to get the message across that she won't play with him and at this point it seems the only way she can do that is to fight back until he figures it out. He may never do so, but it's worth trying this to at least give him a chance. You'd have to closely supervise the battles and be ready to quickly intercede if necessary. If you have a friend to referee with you, that will make it easier.

You mentioned at one point that she's a bush cat who likes to run under things to get away but that he just follows her. Is there any way that you can set up a "cave" for her that only has room for one cat so that once she's in there, he has no choice but to restrict his actions to paw swatting from the entrance? I know that won't be easy because cats can squeeze into the smallest places but you might be able to take something like this and modify it. I just picked this at random just to show you the idea.



I wish you the very best of luck!

 

[kashurr]

I hadn't responded because I thought I found a way for her to get used to him. I had been putting him on his harness and leash and removing the gate while I feed them. Not treats, but actual meal. While eating he'll ignore her. Half the time after he's done eating he'll try to go after her, the other half he'll lie down. The results didn't matter whether or not he was played with before hand. His response was completely random.

Usually when he's on his leash and harness, he tries to go after her but I keep him from getting closer than two feet from her. I'm trying to get her comfortable with him around with no barriers. However, she tries to stay away from him and creeps around us. She'll go completely around the room, hiding behind anything that she can to keep something between them.

However the other day, while I was switching their locations, she slipped past me and got into the same room as him. Instead of the usual go up to her slowly, he ran straight at her full speed. Naturally she ran away and he chased her. I didn't want a fight to break out so I separated them. This time, both their tails were fluffed up. Usually it's just hers that gets fluffed, but even his was.

Regarding how they carry themselves, when they're relaxed, they both walk with their tails up, or when they're tired tail neutrally down. When one of them is on the patio and the other is inside and they're separated by a glass door, she'll literally run at the door at him sometimes.

When he's pawing through the gate, I don't feel like it's aggressive in any way. It feels more like a "please play with me" type thing. He does it regardless if he's with me or not. She'll be at the gate and hiss and bat at him. Often times she starts to try to bite his paw. She doesn't use her claws from what I can tell. When he doesn't stop she'll start to growl along with his and her ears will start to press against her head. After a while she'll leave the gate.

When he does get to her, she doesn't avoid the area or run or hide. She just kind of stays there for a moment before coming to me. Doesn't take long for everything to be normal, however she does show more aggression towards him than before, as in is quicker to hiss or growl.

He's gotten to her a few times, each time I don't hear anything from him, but her I'll hear yowling, the type you hear when cats fight. I've seen tufts of his fur in her claws when I take a bit to separate them.

It's been exactly a year since I've moved and he adopted me. It's extremely disheartening that I'm still afraid of having them in the same room together without him on a harness and leash.

I'll try to get a video of them interacting through the gate when I have the chance.

Honestly, I don't want to give up either cat. They're both amazing cats and I love both of them. She's completely a mommy's girl and although gets along with other people when I'm around, definitely isn't the same around others as me. He, however gets along with any human. Though he's attached to me, when he gets accustomed to another person around constantly, he gets attached to them to. The only time I've ever heard him hiss was at a pitbull when he was in a carrier and the dog was sniffing him.

I thought about getting a behavioral expert to come check them out, but they're not cheap and unfortunately I don't have the money for it. My greatest wish is for them to get along.

 

[Mickpest]

Hi Kashurr!
First, I am very impressed by your stick-to-it-ive-ness! I can relate to how you are feeling, as I have had a similar path with my two boys, Pesto and Mickey. It will be a year on February 6th since we added Mickey to our household, and I am happy to say, finally, that I think it is at last working!! We had had some rough starts when we first brought him home, and didn't allow him loose in the house until the end of May of last year, so almost 4 months after bringing him home, as he would "attack" Pesto constantly! We tried soooo many things, from this site as well as from a behaviorist. Some kind of worked, some didn't work at all. The whole "play with him first" thing really didn't work for Mickey, as he would just get all worked up, no matter how long we played with him and it would increase the negative behavior towards Pesto. What finally has worked for us?

1. We put Mickey on Prozac (trans-dermal cream application to inside flap of ear)
2. We stopped playing with either cat in the presence of the other
3. We stopped interfering with ALL of their, what we perceive as negative, interactions.
4. If behavior wouldn't stop, i.e., Mickey couldn't stop chasing Pesto in the course of an hour or so, we would put Mickey in time out for 20 minutes. (a nice comfy room with water). We would then let him out nonchalantly, and repeat if necessary.

Here is what the result of our endeavors has gotten us:
A. We are at the point now where the "bad" chases are infrequent, maybe 1 every 3 days or so, and even then they are not that bad. We call it bad when play escalates to the point where Mickey won't let Pesto get away, gets on his back, holds on to him and bites him causing Pesto to yell. Let me clarify that there has never been any blood or injury. Only the occasional tufts of fur found in claws. (both of them)
B. They will sleep together now, even in bed with my husband and I. That took some time (months),and arguments between them, but they seem to be figuring it out!
C. Pesto now initiates play! I have seen him entice Mickey and they will go tumbling around in obvious play.
D. I finally can pet Pesto in front of Mickey, without Mickey immediately going after Pesto!
E. Pesto is no longer "slinking" around, trying to hide. I was getting very upset as I thought keeping Mickey might ruin poor Pesto forever, but he is adjusting and will even act "kittenish" on his own, playing with a toy by himself, which he rarely did before.

There was no straight behavioral line here. We had bad days and good days, and had to fight the sadness we would feel when the bad days would come back with a vengeance after we thought we had it figured out. We also had to take copious notes to make sure we weren't being too unrealistic over time.

When I look back over the progress we have made now since day one, it's a huge improvement, and almost unbelievable. I never thought I would see them groom each other or sleep next to each other, for any length of time, but it's happening!

Good luck and hang in there!

I hadn't responded because I thought I found a way for her to get used to him. I had been putting him on his harness and leash and removing the gate while I feed them. Not treats, but actual meal. While eating he'll ignore her. Half the time after he's done eating he'll try to go after her, the other half he'll lie down. The results didn't matter whether or not he was played with before hand. His response was completely random.

Usually when he's on his leash and harness, he tries to go after her but I keep him from getting closer than two feet from her. I'm trying to get her comfortable with him around with no barriers. However, she tries to stay away from him and creeps around us. She'll go completely around the room, hiding behind anything that she can to keep something between them.

However the other day, while I was switching their locations, she slipped past me and got into the same room as him. Instead of the usual go up to her slowly, he ran straight at her full speed. Naturally she ran away and he chased her. I didn't want a fight to break out so I separated them. This time, both their tails were fluffed up. Usually it's just hers that gets fluffed, but even his was.

Regarding how they carry themselves, when they're relaxed, they both walk with their tails up, or when they're tired tail neutrally down. When one of them is on the patio and the other is inside and they're separated by a glass door, she'll literally run at the door at him sometimes.

When he's pawing through the gate, I don't feel like it's aggressive in any way. It feels more like a "please play with me" type thing. He does it regardless if he's with me or not. She'll be at the gate and hiss and bat at him. Often times she starts to try to bite his paw. She doesn't use her claws from what I can tell. When he doesn't stop she'll start to growl along with his and her ears will start to press against her head. After a while she'll leave the gate.

When he does get to her, she doesn't avoid the area or run or hide. She just kind of stays there for a moment before coming to me. Doesn't take long for everything to be normal, however she does show more aggression towards him than before, as in is quicker to hiss or growl.

He's gotten to her a few times, each time I don't hear anything from him, but her I'll hear yowling, the type you hear when cats fight. I've seen tufts of his fur in her claws when I take a bit to separate them.

It's been exactly a year since I've moved and he adopted me. It's extremely disheartening that I'm still afraid of having them in the same room together without him on a harness and leash.

I'll try to get a video of them interacting through the gate when I have the chance.

Honestly, I don't want to give up either cat. They're both amazing cats and I love both of them. She's completely a mommy's girl and although gets along with other people when I'm around, definitely isn't the same around others as me. He, however gets along with any human. Though he's attached to me, when he gets accustomed to another person around constantly, he gets attached to them to. The only time I've ever heard him hiss was at a pitbull when he was in a carrier and the dog was sniffing him.

I thought about getting a behavioral expert to come check them out, but they're not cheap and unfortunately I don't have the money for it. My greatest wish is for them to get along.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I also want to say thank you for standing by them and working hard to get them to get along.

The fact that half the time he doesn't go after her after eating is a positive. It tells me that it will work, it is not if but when.

Is there anything you see that might suggest when he will go after her and when he doesn't? The way she acts? Her body language?

We want to try to make every encounter between them as positive as possible. So we want to try to have him focused on anything but her really. And if she sees that he isn't focused on her and isn't a threat she will slowly begin to trust more. So I am thinking when he is on the harness try to keep him focused on anything but her. It is fine if she is hiding and going around the room. If she can see he isn't focused on her it will be a positive. Then, when she gets a little more confidence she might come out a bit. We will still want to keep him focused on something else, not her. Anything to show her that he isn't a threat.

When she slipped past you did she run into the room he was in? He may have felt threatened or he may have felt "play time". The fact she ran from him tells me she is still afraid and lacks some confidence. We need her to be more confident and to hold her ground a bit more. He doesn't wan tto hurt her but she doesn't realize it yet.

It is a positive that they do walk confidently with their tails up. That is a good sign. But the fact she runs at him with the glass door tells me she is still fearing him and insecure. We need to keep doing positive associations (eating together, scent swapping, site swapping, making every encounter between them as positive as possible even if it is for a minute. Positive associations and showing her that he is not a threat.

If they at the gate and they are starting to get into it try to distract in a positive way (calling a name, using food, etc). Anything to stop it from becoming a negative encounter. When the ears get back it has turned into a negative encounter. Negative association. We want her to just move away, ignore him. So it is like "whatever".

You mention "when he does get to her ..." Under what circumstance is that under? That is positive that she doesn't run, doesn't avoid the area or hide. Very positive that she then goes to you and it is normal. Huge positive. I would like to understand under what circumstances that happens.

Howling or hissing is communication. A way of saying "knock it off". That is good, normal. And if it doesn't escalate then the communication is actually communicated and understood. Again a big positive. Tells me again that it is not a question of if they will get along totally but when. He doesn't want to hurt her but she needs to learn that and believe that.

I know. Some introductions can take a long time. 1 year is not unheard of if you can believe it. We will get there. We need her to understand that he does not want to kill her. Which I see no evidence that he does.

I would love to see a video of them. But I would really like to have only positive associations and encounters at the gate. Distract as often as possible. When one looks away it is a positive.

Use the fact that she is a mommy's girl (if you can safely without being at risk of being hurt in anyway) to help build trust. If you can safely give her love with him roaming around focused on something like a toy. If she can see him focused on something other than her. But be careful so you don't get accidentally hurt in any way.

How are your emotions when they are together? Do you feel anxious? Stressed? Nervous? Cats take on our emotions so the more on edge we are they more they are. Try to be as calm and confident around them as possible. Especially because she is a mommy's girl, she may pick up on your emotions more than you realize.

A cat behaviorist is a great idea but if you can't afford it we will be here for you. There are some fundamental things. Positive association. Making every encounter as positive as possible even if it is a short time. Distracting them if needed to avoid any negativity. Staying calm and confident.

They both sound like great cats. She just feels a touch insecure not knowing what he might do (even though I don't believe he has any intent of hurting her). I really want to continue building her confidence. A lot of play. Feed after play for her. Everywhere in the house. I want her to feel strong ownership. Have an old shirt with his scent on it when you and her are together. So that she can have your love and his scent and that positive association. Let her watch him safely, try to have him focused on anything but her.

There are a lot of positives. You can do this. I don't see any reason why they will not get along.

Please feel free to post anytime and anything. We are her for you to help.

 

[kashurr]

Mickpest,
I would love to just "let them work it out," but it's not just chasing that occurs. He eventually corners her and then jumps on her and there's fighting. This occurs within 15 minutes. There's no distracting him.

calicosrspecial,
There is no indication between either of them whether or not he'll start trying to go after her after eating. When eating, she'll mostly ignore him, occasionally looking up at him, but otherwise no indication of even caring that he's there.

The only time I can distract him with no barrier between them is during feeding times. Otherwise he cannot be distracted by anything: treats, toys, petting, nothing. He won't even so much as look at anything but her. If I manage to stretch myself, keeping him away but able to reach her with a toy, she'll interact with it, but the second he moves she'll focus on him.

When she slipped past me, she didn't so much run as just managed to squeeze past my legs. There were multiple times he's gotten to her. About two months after I got him I tried putting them in the same room. Had a friend over to distract her while I distracted him. He ignored me and went straight for her. Four months later I tried again with the same thing. There have also been a few times that they've manage to slip past the door when it opens. There was once shortly after I put the gate up while I was in the bathroom that he manage to climb past three feet of a wooden board and squeeze through two inches between the board and top of the door frame and got to her. It took a little while before I could separate them (as I was in the bathroom at the time). There was no blood but lots of fur and both of them seemed tense.

When they walk with their tails up, it's never near each other. As soon as they see the other cat both their tails go down to a more neutral position. 99% of interactions through the gate isn't positive. He'll try to reach the other side by putting his paw through the gate and just pawing. Sometimes at the air, sometimes at the carpet. If she's nearby, she'll try to bat at his paw and bite it, hissing and growling. I've tried both positive distractions and negative. If she's on my side of the gate, she'll occasionally acknowledge me. If he's on my side of the gate, there's no distraction.

You say "if it doesn't escalate then the communication is actually communicated." This is zero chance that is happening. He has never ever backed off from her when she's hissed or growled at him. It's like he doesn't understand what it means.

After the second attempt at putting them together and multiple escapes, I do not have them in the same room roaming. He does not get distracted by anything and is only ever interested in her.

I managed to get a short video of them interacting.


This was one of their tamer interactions. It usually goes on for a few minutes before one of them just decides to walk away. Sometimes it can get pretty aggressive on both their sides. She was growling and hissing far more before I managed to get a video.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Let's start with the video.

The black cats looks much more defensive. Like "don't do it". The tan or lighter cat look like they want to play and doesn't understand the other cat is not interested in playing. I am looking at the body language (which isn't too bad actually) and the ferocity of the swats. I am guessing the black cat is the girl?

The fact they can eat together tells me a lot, that they can and will get along eventually. The fact she ignores him while eating tells me she doesn't totally fear him (when he is focused on something else). So we need to continue to work on getting him focused on something else so she can see that he doesn't mean harm.

If I am right and the black cat is the girl that encounter at the gate says when he focuses on her she immediately goes to "protection mode". She doesn't trust him. So we need to build trust.

I really want to make sure those gate interactions are as positive as possible. We may have to go back to a closed door and only have them together eating for a while.

Does he show much aggression towards her or does he seem to just want to play? This is before she defends herself and he probably starts getting more aggressive. So when he starts to go towards her not after the first blows start.

That interaction at the gate looked pretty tame from the light cat and pretty defensive from the black cat. The light cat thinks "let's play" while the black cat is like "don't even try it, get away".

Ok, it is very good that they are confident (tails up) when they are not around each other. That is helpful.

I would like to get those gate interactions positive. If you can have her distracted or not reacting to his reaching out that could be helpful. If we then can get him to realize she isn't responding and have him stop or even better walk away that would be great.

I get a sense he doesn't understand that she means "stay away". He thinks it is just play. I have a couple of questions. Was he raised by his mother? Did he have siblings? How old is he? How old is she?

I don't think he has any intent to hurt her (if he did he would have already). He wants to play. But she just isn't trusting of him yet. We need to build that trust through positive encounters even if they are only a minute. So eating together. Then separate. I would like to see positive encounters at the gate before they get together other than eating. If they can't get along at the gate then we may have to close off visual (but i don't want to go there). But they would still be eating together if possible.

So we only want to have them together eating for now as long as you are highly confident they will have a positive encounter. And let's work on distracting her at the gate and making sure those gate encounters are positive. I want to focus on her, making sure she doesn't react and I would love to see him walk away from the gate like the light cat did in the video.

We have to start building on small positives, avoid negative encounters, and try to let her know that he doesn't mean harm (which I think he doesn't). I have seen this often where the new young cat just wants to play and the older resident/existing cat misinterprets it as an existential threat.

 

[kashurr]

The black cat is the older female named Luna. The tan cat is the younger male named Nico.

Regarding the reaching through the gate, he does this regardless of whether she's at the gate or not. I feel like his reaching through the cat is more of a "let me out please" or trying to get through. She just happens to be at the gate sometimes when he starts doing it. Usually the way the interactions end are her walking away. It's less often that he's the one that stops.

I don't feel aggression from him ever. It definitely feels more of a wanting to play type situation. The interaction I showed was by far one of the more tame ones. Just last night (which I didn't manage to record), she got pretty aggressive. She was hissing and growling and spitting. Her tail got all puffed up and she was run up at him to bite him then running away and back.

I have no idea if he was raised by his mother or have siblings. He literally was a stray that came into my old apartment as I was moving and wouldn't leave so I kept him. He was six months at the time. He's currently a year and a half. I picked her up from the shelter. She was a stray pickup that was in the shelter for ten days before I adopted her. She was four months. She's currently two years and four months old. I've had her for two years and him for a year. When he adopted me, I was literally moving apartments, so their meeting was in a totally new and neutral area.

 

[5starcathotel]

From the video, and what I read in this thread so far...I feel like Nico is the more adjusted kitty. Though I don't necessarily agree he is thinking "let me out" when he reaches through the gate. I think he mostly wants to play, and he knows there is a toy (aka, Luna) on the other side.

What was his reaction to her hissing/growling/spitting last night?

 

[kashurr]

There's no reaction to the hissing/growling/spitting. He's just constantly reaching through the gate like in the video. He doesn't stop reaching, he doesn't back off or change his behavior.

If I put it in human terms, she keeps telling him no, and he still jumps on her.

 

[Elfilou]

I feel really sorry for both of them, and you. I personally would continue to try and re-home one of them while also trying to keep figuring it out. This is no way to live. Not for them, not for you.

I think it's more than time to "let them at it". By having kept them separated for so long I feel that you have created so much suspense. "Wanting what you can have" is strong in Nico, and you keep interfering before Luna can see that there really isn't that much to fear.

I say start with 30 minutes and don't break up their fights unless fur is flying. Increase to an hour and keep going.

How much is their age difference?

Have you considered medicating one or both of them?

And lastly, I highly advise getting lots of shelving and hiding places. Go to IKEA and just get some shelving, hot-glue some carpeting on the shelves etc. It's really easy.

 

[Elfilou]

After thinking about this for a little bit I want to add this. Think of the whole process as exposure therapy. I had exposure therapy, once formally and once informally. The one in a formal setting was for spiders, because I once had a bad expierence as a child encountering a tarantula on vacation. At therapy, I'd first picture a spider in my mind, then see pictures of them, then I'd see one in a jar, gradually, until I let one walk over my hand.

The informal expierence was much the same, but at someone's home. I once got scratched by a cat as a child and was deathly afraid of cats. I wanted nothing to do with them. But I started spending a lot of time at a friends' house, and she had 5 cats. They were indoor/outdoor but nonetheless unavoidable. After more and more time just hanging out around them, I eventually got encouraged to play with them through a dangling toy - and needless to say, look at me now, posting on a cat forum.

Fear is a very primal response in all mammals. Fear of the unknown is the worst, and keeping scary things at a distance and avoiding makes things worse. This is why slow introductions usually work so well, it essentially is exposure therapy for cats. Fear always rises and rises in scary situations, but at some point the fear can not go any higher. Thats where fear drops. Letting a spider crawl on my hand, my anxiety shot up so much. But after a few minutes, after doing it again and again - I stopped sweating. I stopped being nervous. The anxiety goes down upon exposure.

You've done all of this for your cats up until letting them actually "fight" or well, play fight, let's be real. Luna needs to go through the exposure of having him around longer and longer, unrestricted, until she realizes that her anxiety can't go any higher - and that's where it will go down. Stop breaking it up until she can expierence her anxiety dropping by itself. Unless, of course, things escalate.

 

[di and bob]

Females often act the way Luna is, most are divas and pretty much live on an island. My females have never gotten along with the males who often jump on her and the screaming and fur flies, and these are her sons! I yell NO and it stops, until the next time. The boys just don't understand why she won't play!They are all neutered and spayed.
My Chrissy spent a year on top of the fridge when we moved and tried to blend the families. Then she finally stood up for herself, the fur flew and the boys gave her a wide berth after that and all was well.
You might try letting them pretty much go with the leash.There will be fur flying and a lot of noise, but as long as there are no deep bites or blood it is a tussle over territory and rights. If you have ever seen a REAL cat fight you would know this is not it. My ferals come to eat with ears torn off, patches of their skin missing, and deep bites and scratches dripping blood. Real fighting involves real injuries.
The best solution is of course to get Nico a buddy, one with the same rambunctious temperament for him to tussle with. I have four cats in a 950 square foot area and every one is fine. There are vertical paths that can be built to make the space bigger, and you could even have a outside fenced area or large kennel if possible to relieve their boredom. Even a cage supported out a window helps.
I truly think Luna is acting perfectly normal, and Nico will have to learn his boundaries. He WILL calm down over time.

 

[calicosrspecial]

The black cat is the older female named Luna. The tan cat is the younger male named Nico.

Regarding the reaching through the gate, he does this regardless of whether she's at the gate or not. I feel like his reaching through the cat is more of a "let me out please" or trying to get through. She just happens to be at the gate sometimes when he starts doing it. Usually the way the interactions end are her walking away. It's less often that he's the one that stops.

I don't feel aggression from him ever. It definitely feels more of a wanting to play type situation. The interaction I showed was by far one of the more tame ones. Just last night (which I didn't manage to record), she got pretty aggressive. She was hissing and growling and spitting. Her tail got all puffed up and she was run up at him to bite him then running away and back.

I have no idea if he was raised by his mother or have siblings. He literally was a stray that came into my old apartment as I was moving and wouldn't leave so I kept him. He was six months at the time. He's currently a year and a half. I picked her up from the shelter. She was a stray pickup that was in the shelter for ten days before I adopted her. She was four months. She's currently two years and four months old. I've had her for two years and him for a year. When he adopted me, I was literally moving apartments, so their meeting was in a totally new and neutral area.

Yes, he wants to play. I do not see aggression from him either.

It is very common for the resident cat to act like she is. It is her territory being "invaded" and she is very cautious worried about him. Our goal is to assure her that he is not a threat. We may have to go back to a closed door and restart. But let's do more scent swapping. Let's get his scent by areas she feels very comfortable. Also, let's try to make every encounter by that gate as positive as possible. Since he is hard to distract please working on doing positive things with her by the gate and distracting her by the gate. If he is reaching through and she is distracted it is great. I would love to be able to get there. I really want to make a positive and safe association by the gate in anyway possible.

 

[calicosrspecial]

There's no reaction to the hissing/growling/spitting. He's just constantly reaching through the gate like in the video. He doesn't stop reaching, he doesn't back off or change his behavior.

If I put it in human terms, she keeps telling him no, and he still jumps on her.

He senses that she doesn't really want to hurt him. He views it more as play. Kind of like the bratty boy dipping a girl's pigtails in the ink well. If she was really afraid of him she would avoid that area and be afraid to eat with him etc. It seems to me like she is trying to teach him "manners" and he isn't listening. I see this all the time.

Have you done any site swapping yet?

 

[kashurr]

di and bob unfortunately I can't get a third cat. I only have a one bedroom 640 foot apartment, I'd have no way to introduce a third cat. On top of that even if I had room, my apartment complex only allows a two pet maximum.

C calicosrspecial
I have tried to positive association by the gate. I pet her by the gate. Give her treats by the gate. Play with her by the gate. She's fine during these times.

I site swap every other day. For example, Monday he's in the bedroom day and night, while she's in the rest of the apartment. Tuesday she's in the bedroom while he's in the rest of the apartment. Scent isn't an issue for either of them. Both of them share the same spots that they frequent: the cat beds, the desk chair, the saucer chair, the cat trees, the bed, the couch, this one random box. Neither, including Luna, has a problem with his scent on any these. She doesn't even give them a second sniff when she lies down.

 

[calicosrspecial]

That is great. Big positives. I think you are much further along than you think.

So keep doing positive association by the gate and making those interactions between them as positive as possible. So if he is reaching out to her try to distract her (thinking about your safety so you aren't hurt in any way) so she sees his actions and doesn't care. No swatting back so aggressively, just focused on you or something else. We want to show her that he is not a threat. That his reaching isn't a big deal. We want her to know he is doing it and not really fear it or care about it.

If she understands that he doesn't mean harm or is a threat then she will accept more easily.

 

[kashurr]

So I had him on his harness and leash today while they were eating and he got a little close to her for her comfort and she attacked him. Literally so fur flying from him. But he didn't back down or leave her alone. She ended up running away. And after she did he tried to go after her but I kept him from moving.

 

[calicosrspecial]

I think we need to give them a little space to avoid these negative encounters. They have to go at their pace unfortunately. So let's keep them a little further away for a way so that they can be "together" without any negative encounter. We have to let her know that he is not a threat.

Also, step up play with her and try to play with her in the area where they are eating and where they had this encounter. Really good play session then feed her and her alone (either treats or a meal) in that area after her play. Have him in his room and if possible block his sight of that area. I want her to get more confidence in that area and in general as confident cats are less likely to attack or be attacked.

How has her body language been? How is he walking? How does she hold her tail?