New cat wants to play but old cat wants none of it

Mickpest

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Yeah I can't sit three cars in a 600 square foot apartment.
I am so sorry about your dilemma. We are in the same boat, have tried everything including onsite visits with a behaviorist and putting the new kitty on anti depressants per the vets advice. Nothing is working and it's maddening to have them seemingly get along with a baby gate between them, but once the gate is removed the chase is on once again. Have never had these problems before and have had a lot of cats in the past. I'm sorry I don't have any meaningful advice for you, but wanted you to know that you are not alone, and it sounds like you have tried everything and are a great cat parent!
 
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kashurr

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3 cats that are getting along are easier to deal with than two that are not. Just sayin'
I feel like it would be two that are getting along and it would end up 1 vs 2. In any case I don't even know if adding a new kitten would even help or make things worse.

Also I don't even have a third room to separate the kitten from the other two to introduce the kitten. I live in a one bedroom apartment. There's no other room or area I'd be able to introduce a third cat with.
 
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calicosrspecial

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It is very common that the cats get along with a barrier then when together one gets excited and wants to play with the other one and the other doesn't want to play. I have helped so many people with this situation.

The resident cat/existing cat usually has the most difficult time adjusting as it is their territory being "invaded".

I have found that build the confidence of both cats is hugely important.

How exactly do things play out when they are together? New cat runs to resident, wants to play, jumps on resident, resident gets angry, swats then chases? How does the new cat react? How do they behave after the "dust up"? Any hiding? Etc.

Are you playing with the resident cat? We need to step up play with resident cat, after a good play session feed. Do you have enough cat trees for resident cat? Scratching posts? Have you thought about adding cat shelving? For more places for resident to "get away" from the play.

New cat will not at all be distracted? Not play, not food? Words? Are you playing with new cat in his area? We need him to play, to find a toy more interesting than another cat.

When you play make sure the toy acts like prey, a mouse or a bird. Get the cat to stalk it and pounce on it. Then repeat. After a good play session feed treats or a meal. We want the cats to really want to play, to find it fun.

We can figure this out, I have helped a lot of people with this. The more confident each cat is the more likely they will get along.

Please ask anything. Hang in there, we can figure this out.
 
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kashurr

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So what happens when I let them together is hell approach the resident cat. She'll back away hissing and growling and he'll continue to approach her. When she's cornered he'll pounce at her. She'll yowl and fight him and he'll play fight with her but never sound or look like he's really fighting. When I separate them he'll just chirp to go after her again and she'll stay where she was for a while before relaxing. There's no hiding or anything after.

Regarding territory, she didn't have a territory when I adopted him. Poor circumstances that didn't help, I had just moved when he adopted me so it wasn't her space yet. Now I waited a month before they saw each other even through a cracked door when I first got him.

I play with both of them every day when I get home. I play and the. Give them treats or food. My resident cat is a "bush" cat. As in she feels far more safe and comfortable under somewhere. She doesn't like her trees or high places unless she's lounging. Otherwise she won't go there when she's uncomfortable. She'll hide under the bed or table or whatever. Which of course is easy for him to chase her. She's a few times attempted to hide under the bed from him only to have him chase her there. She has multiple high places, including cat trees, shelves, etc to go to but has never retreated to there.

Regarding the new cat, he loves to play when I'm with him and she's out of sight. He'll immediately chase whatever toy I have to play with him. Is favorite is a squeaking mouse with feathers on a string that he'll chase around for forever. He'll stop even eating to chase the toy. However when they're in the same room, he'll look at the toy while I'm trying to distract him with it and instead go towards her. I've tried this by myself and with a friend over to distract them separately. Instead of being distracted by his favorite toys that will pull him away from food (and he's a glutton so he loves food), they don't compare to how much he wants to play with resident cat.

Right now I keep them separated by a large baby gate when I'm home, and a closed door when I'm not. I constantly switch which room each is in. They eat on each side of the gate less than two feet from each other with no problem. Normally he'll reach through the gate pawing to reach her. She'll occasionally come up to the gate and bat at his paws. Sometimes she'll his if he doesn't stop or actually touches her.
 
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kashurr

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I am so sorry about your dilemma. We are in the same boat, have tried everything including onsite visits with a behaviorist and putting the new kitty on anti depressants per the vets advice. Nothing is working and it's maddening to have them seemingly get along with a baby gate between them, but once the gate is removed the chase is on once again. Have never had these problems before and have had a lot of cats in the past. I'm sorry I don't have any meaningful advice for you, but wanted you to know that you are not alone, and it sounds like you have tried everything and are a great cat parent!
I'm sorry you're having the same issue as me. It's really tough and frustrating. Especially when it feels like it'll never be solved. I wish you the best of luck!
 

Mickpest

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I'm sorry you're having the same issue as me. It's really tough and frustrating. Especially when it feels like it'll never be solved. I wish you the best of luck!
Thank you! My heart is feeling pretty beat up right now, as I saw the vet this morning, and she only gives my guys about a 30% chance of ever getting along at all at this point. Not very heartening, and feeling like I need to make a decision very soon about bringing our new boy back. We are so attached to him now, as I know you must be with yours. It makes it all so very hard. Its amazing how much these little guys worm there way into our hearts! :)
 
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kashurr

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Thank you! My heart is feeling pretty beat up right now, as I saw the vet this morning, and she only gives my guys about a 30% chance of ever getting along at all at this point. Not very heartening, and feeling like I need to make a decision very soon about bringing our new boy back. We are so attached to him now, as I know you must be with yours. It makes it all so very hard. Its amazing how much these little guys worm there way into our hearts! :)
I know! It's super rough. I have been looking for a new home for home for a while now. But he's such a sweetheart. Super affectionate. Very playful. He loves to be picked up and held like a baby. Heck he even loves belly rubs! Not to mention his fur is super soft!
 

calicosrspecial

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Thank you for the additional information.

Your resident cat is not confident enough. The fact she is going under things, is going low, never high tell us she is lacking confidence. Even though he doesn't want to hurt her she isn't confident enough so she acts like prey. So, we need to build her confidence.

Please step up play with her. I mean really good sessions. I want her to stalk it, pounce on the toy, kill it. Then repeat. After play feed. Hunt, Capture, Kill, Eat. I want her walking around with her tail high, going up in the world. During this time I want to keep them physically separated. If you see them together near the gate try to make it as positive as possible. We don't want her to bat or hiss. We want her to basically look at him, be like "he is no threat, he's cool". We always want to make every interaction as positive as possible. She is viewing their time together as negative and that is putting us backwards. Keep associating them with positive things. If time is a constraint focus on her with play. Continue to use food at the gate, feed them together, if anyone focuses on the other distract in anyway possible.

So two important things. Step up play to build her confidence. And try to make every interaction as positive as possible and try to minimize or eliminate any negative encounters.

We need her to "own" her territory. I want her to be up and walking around like a Queen. So play will help but let's stop site swapping and any physical contact without barriers. We need her to be more confident then go back to integrating. I know it is frustrating but I believe this is the most important thing, to get her to "own" her territory and to have confidence.

We can get there.

Mickpest, feel free to message me or to start a new thread with your situation, maybe I can help.
 
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kashurr

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So in regards to her going under places, she's always loved this. Like going in bags, playing under the bed, dozing under the coffee table. Even before I ever brought him in.

When she plays, she either plays lazily, or hunting it. Unlike him who runs after the toys usually, she'll stalk the toy and already treats it as prey. Minus when he's in the same room, she by all means seems completely confident. She doesn't hide from strangers, instead goes up to them. She loves lying on the patio and watching people. She walks around with her tail up, even up to him at the gate.


Regarding the batting, she bats at him more playfully than negatively. She'll bat at his paw a few times then walk away. When she hisses at him, it is not accompanied with the batting. She'll his at him when she hasn't batted at him.

I haven't done any contact without the gate for the past four months. I'm trying to get them more used to each other. Mostly I want to be able to have her at the gate without hissing.

Unfortunately I'm unable to not site swap. Currently I have to put him in the bathroom at night as she'll yowl to be let in the bedroom if I don't as she's always slept with me. The current set up is usually him in the bedroom and her in the living room during the day, switched usually during the weekend where I'll have the patio door open in the bedroom and she can go outside and inside while he's in the living room. Either way she doesn't seem to be bothered by his scent or "territory" in fact when I used to move his litter box back and forth she'd go lie and sleep where his litter box would be. She's able to sleep where he sleeps/play. They've shared litter box with no problem.
 

calicosrspecial

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Well, this is much better than I thought.

Ok, this is good.

So we are in a lot better spot. We need to figure out how to break his attention on her, to give her an opportunity to be with him without being bothered. How to distract so that she realizes he is not a threat.

Please think about it. I usually use play or food but it sounds like it will not work with him. Can you hold him without being scratched or hurt in anyway? I have done that before. I have called their name. I have physically blocked cats (though I am not sure i would recommend that for others).

Let's put our heads together and think of anything that might distract him and show her that he can be there with her without something negative happening.

He can't be tired out, correct?

Please try to make every interaction as positive as possible and to minimize any negative encounters. Maybe time is just needed.

Keep playing with her, real good play. All over her territory. If you can play with her by the gate with him near that could be helpful (as long as he doesn't jump the gate and want to join). Not sure if this would be possible.

I'll keep thinking, please mention anything you think might work. Hang in there, it will work eventually. Your last post was very encouraging. A lot better situation than I thought.
 
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kashurr

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Neither of them have eitherbhiss at or hurt me. Her I've never heard hiss except at him. Him he's never hissed. The gate covers the whole doorway and neither can't cross over to get to the other. I make sure that both get played in front of the gate within view of the other.

One thing I've been trying is to train him on a harness and leash. He's fine in the harness now, doesn't chew or try to get it off. He's still getting used to the harness. He walks low to the ground still. Otherwise he's been doing really well with it. I've been thinking of i can have him on the harness and leash, I can make sure he doesn't chase her and corner her while they get used to each other face to face without barriers. Lots of treats and play while this happens.
 

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If you have the ability and interest for a third cat, I would strongly suggest trying to find a way to make it work. After five years I threw in the proverbial towel and got a playmate for my second cat because after five years he still desperately wanted to play and she was still determined to ignore him or hiss him away.
 
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kashurr

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If you have the ability and interest for a third cat, I would strongly suggest trying to find a way to make it work. After five years I threw in the proverbial towel and got a playmate for my second cat because after five years he still desperately wanted to play and she was still determined to ignore him or hiss him away.
Honestly I'd love all the cats. But there's literally no way I can get another cat right now. I live in a 600 square foot one bedroom apartment. It would be physically impossible to introduce him/her to the house properly and that's even assuming there wouldn't be any problems like there are now. And even if a third cat and second cat, there's no guarantee that they'd leave the first cat alone. Worse it could end up a 2 v 1. It's not that my cat is ignoring him/hissing him away, I'd 100% prefer that. They can't even be in the same room together right now without a fight breaking out. If I can get them to ignore each other, that would be perfect for me.
 

calicosrspecial

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I think the harness is a great idea. Anything to show her that he is not a threat and for him to get used to her and hopefully not want to play with her/bother her as much. I have personally never used the harness (I do the holding though it is more dangerous) but I have hope you can make it work. It will help her a lot to see him but not be chased etc. It will help her confidence with him.

Just make sure he views the harness as a positive as we always want to try to make positive associations.

Take it slow. PLEASE let me know how it works.

They will get along, the question is not if in my mind but when. Keep up the great work!!
 
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kashurr

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To revive and old thread...

So I've been continuing trying to get them to get along. It's been 8 months since I brought him home.

Following what I had said previously, iv was been putting him on a harness and leash. At first it was once a week then every couple of days.

What's happens is : he's distracted for the first couple of minutes and doesn't go to her. However after the first couple minutes he tries to get to her each and every time with me keeping him from her.

The closer he gets the more uncomfortable she gets. As he goes towards her, she'll move away from him. When he gets too close, she'll hiss. This routine has happened without change each and every time for the past few months since May.

Just last week though, he managed to get loose and immediately went after her and they fought. He didn't make a sound and she yowled. I broke them up but now she's extremely afraid of him again.

If he reaches through the gate, she'll run away, tail fluffed, and hide near me. I haven't used the harness since then.

I don't even know if I had made any progress because nothing changed in either of them. He would go after her without fail and she would back away from him each time.

I honestly don't know what to do and am starting to believe they'll never get never along.
 

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I'm so sorry to hear about your situation and the update. I know how you feel because I'm going through similar situation. I really admire you for trying so hard in hoping to improve the situation for so long because it's been only 1.5 months for me. It's really frustrating and exhausting.

My 6-year-old resident cat is also a bush dweller so she always stay low and it gives my 6-month kitten more chance to stalk and pounce on her. She will then hiss, growl and run away. She's also a timid cat so I've tried to help her build up confidence by making her jump up on the scratching post to stay high, she will only stay awhile then jump down and lie on the floor. I think she feels safe and easier to run away. I'm a bit lucky because my new kitten is not as aggressive, he seems to know his boundary sometimes when resident cat is angry but still I don't know how much longer she can tolerate because the kitten is still very young and hyper. He will still grab and bite her suddenly. I guess he just want to play all the time. He even started to jump on the resident's only bed that she can sleep peacefully. I don't how I can stop him.

Sorry I can't give any better advises as you have tried different things I guess all we can do is to wait for them to grow older.
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi,

Don't worry, we will get them to get along.

How was the fight? Was she hurt? How did he act after it? How did she act after the fight?

The key really is to build her (resident cat's) confidence. A confident cat is less likely to be attacked. If a cat looks timid and acts like prey they can be bullied.

So we do this in a few ways.

Play builds confidence. So I like to step up play with the cats (if time is a constraint I would focus on the resident cat). After a good play session feed either treats or a meal. Do this starting in their area and then in areas where they tend to meet.

Also, keep trying to feed on either side of the gate. You may have to start a distance away but slowly move the food closer. Is your boy (new cat) food motivated? If he is eating and focusing on the food it not only gives a positive association but it also allows them to have a positive encounter (no chasing, staring etc).

When they do get together we want to make the experience as positive as possible even if it is just for a short time. And slowly build. If you get a sense it is going to get negative (via staring etc) then we want to end the meet and greet.

Use anything to distract before a situation gets negative. Use food or play to distract.

Do scent swapping so they both can get use to the other cats scent and associate it with positive things (like food). Again anytime they are together whether it is scent or sight as long as it is positive it will build trust and confidence.

You can use old shirts. You can swap beds (and see how they react). Scratching posts.

If you can do some site swapping (getting each of the cat's in the other's territory) that is also helpful. But again they should be separated by a gate so it is a positive experience as best as can be.

So we really want to associate them with positive things so they can associate each other positively and try to make every encounter as positive as possible even if it is for a very short time. And we want to build their confidence via play and feeding after.

If time is an issue I would play with her as much as possible feeding after. Play with her in the area where they would meet. And feed them by the gate (distracting him if needed). Then getting him in a room with her (while he is on a harness) and trying to avoid any negative encounter. If he can walk near her and ignore her even for a minute it is a positive. And slowly build the time together.

I would love for her to be confident when he is around with her tail high. The more confident she is the less likely he will want to attack. Now he will probably want to play with her still.

Please let me know if you have any questions any time. I am happy to help. A lot of people have this issue and if we break it down to the basics it really does work. When we can get her to have more confidence and trust it will work out.
 

Mickpest

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To revive and old thread...

So I've been continuing trying to get them to get along. It's been 8 months since I brought him home.

Following what I had said previously, iv was been putting him on a harness and leash. At first it was once a week then every couple of days.

What's happens is : he's distracted for the first couple of minutes and doesn't go to her. However after the first couple minutes he tries to get to her each and every time with me keeping him from her.

The closer he gets the more uncomfortable she gets. As he goes towards her, she'll move away from him. When he gets too close, she'll hiss. This routine has happened without change each and every time for the past few months since May.

Just last week though, he managed to get loose and immediately went after her and they fought. He didn't make a sound and she yowled. I broke them up but now she's extremely afraid of him again.

If he reaches through the gate, she'll run away, tail fluffed, and hide near me. I haven't used the harness since then.

I don't even know if I had made any progress because nothing changed in either of them. He would go after her without fail and she would back away from him each time.

I honestly don't know what to do and am starting to believe they'll never get never along.
I don't know if someone has already suggested this, but have you tried talking to a vet about possibly using drug therapy? We have gotten to a place where we finally have both cats loose in the house 24/7 with fewer and fewer altercations for the most part. Any changes in the house will stir things up again of course for a few days. We still have what I refer to as the "dawn and dusk" phenomenon, where our new guy will chase and harass our older cat, but we usually can ask him to stop with success, not always but usually. :). Starting yesterday, we made the decision to switch to fluoxetine (prozac) from amitriptyline, as it is apparent he will have to stay on the medication for likely a year or more, and amitriptyline is known to sometimes die off in effectiveness as well as have more possible complications. We have the meds compounded into a cream to make administering it much easier. I don't like the idea of medicating an animal for behavior issues, but when the alternative is taking him back to the shelter I think it is the right decision, for us anyway.
 
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kashurr

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To revive and old topic. There has been zero change between them. She still hisses at him through the gate. They can eat on opposite sides or the gate but that's it. All he wants to do is get at her.

He reaches through the gate, tearing up my carpet, to try to reach her, regardless on what side he's on.

I've put him on leash and harness and all he does is try to go straight at her. There's no distracting him with anything. The only thing he wants is to get at her, which she wants him to stay away.

I switch sites daily and they have no problem with it (other than whining because they can't be with me). They share litter boxes, toys, resting places, beds. They eat just fine two feet away from each other on opposite sides of the gate. I play with both of them, within view of the other. Regardless of what side he's on, he's constantly reaching through the gate to get to her. Every time his paw gets too close she hisses at him but he keeps reaching. On the harness he ignores any toys or any food or anything else and just tries to get to her. I keep him away, but she hisses if he gets within three feet of her, but that doesn't stop him.

I've tried following all advice given and everything I've read up on. It's been over ten months with me having to separate these cats with a barrier, not being able to go in and out of my one bedroom properly. I don't know what to do anymore. I almost want them to go at each other to figure it out but I know that's not the right call. I've tried to find him a home but no luck there either. I'm going to have to give him to the shelter or something.
 
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