Need input - FIV+ and FIV- cats living together. Risks/Concerns

[chaucer]

 
You really are Orville's angel and a wonderful kind person. Wishing your family  and all 3 of your kitties a safe and happy 2016. I hope you will continue to update us on your journey.

Thank you, and to you and yours a Happy New Year.

Not to be a bore, but there was a surprising moment just a little while ago. Orville had been sitting outside the glass for a while so I opened the door and in he came. I was able to close the door!  For the next 10 minutes or so, he wandered through parts of the house, accompanied by Chaucer!  They walked side-by-side. Chaucer was fluffed a bit but they walked together and sniffed each other.  Orville was still a little nervous and mewed.  Henryetta, when approached by him, hissed and growled but not other aggression. Toward the end of Chaucer's tour when Chaucer went off and just watched Orville, the latter was looking for a way out. Chaucer did appear and Orville did walk up to him and they were nearly in a cat-fight embrace but I stopped it (no hissing/growling that I could hear). I am still concerned about Orville infected them. Anyway, Orville wanted back out so I let him. I want him to feel safe in here and that he can retreat outside so he won't feel trapped. Currently, he is sitting outside the glass looking in as usual.

 

[catwoman707]

 
Thank you, and to you and yours a Happy New Year.

Not to be a bore, but there was a surprising moment just a little while ago. Orville had been sitting outside the glass for a while so I opened the door and in he came. I was able to close the door!  For the next 10 minutes or so, he wandered through parts of the house, accompanied by Chaucer!  They walked side-by-side. Chaucer was fluffed a bit but they walked together and sniffed each other.  Orville was still a little nervous and mewed.  Henryetta, when approached by him, hissed and growled but not other aggression. Toward the end of Chaucer's tour when Chaucer went off and just watched Orville, the latter was looking for a way out. Chaucer did appear and Orville did walk up to him and they were nearly in a cat-fight embrace but I stopped it (no hissing/growling that I could hear). I am still concerned about Orville infected them. Anyway, Orville wanted back out so I let him. I want him to feel safe in here and that he can retreat outside so he won't feel trapped. Currently, he is sitting outside the glass looking in as usual.

I love this, and in time you will have much more confidence that all's well on the homefront

What do you mean about nearly in a cat fight embrace?

Also, Orville should always have an 'out' too, it's what he has grown accustomed to and is his safe zone now, that might change as he grows more comfortable inside but for now is a good thing.

 

[zed xyzed]

Not sure the embrace would have led to a fight, usually before a scrap there is a lot of posturing and they make god awful noises, but you are right in playing it safe. You really have done an amazing job in introducing them

 

[ralphscats]

I agree that they probably felt a little threatened. Chaucer may be friendly to Orrville as long as Orrville isn't intruding on his turf. I've been off of here for a few days, so forgive me if I missed this, but have you rubbed a towel or something on each of them and then given them to each other? That will help them get  used to each other's scents.

Don't give up! It is a slow process. It took me a couple of months. If you could bring Orrville in and put him in the cage and let the others smell him, that might help. You could even put the cage in different rooms at different times so that way his scent would be in all the rooms and he would get familiar with each room from a distance.

 

[chaucer]

 
I love this, and in time you will have much more confidence that all's well on the homefront

What do you mean about nearly in a cat fight embrace?

Also, Orville should always have an 'out' too, it's what he has grown accustomed to and is his safe zone now, that might change as he grows more comfortable inside but for now is a good thing.

After the wandering around together through the living room, dining room, kitchen, breakfast room and back to the den,  Chaucer settled on one side of the chair and Orville on the other. Both looked at each other and started to walk toward each other. When they met up, Orville kind of put his leg up and then bent his head toward Chaucer's neck as if to bite it. I think there was a meow sound (no hissing or growling) but I didn't want to risk a fight-fight so I said "No" an opened door. Orville went out. He's currently sleeping in the revamped bed on the steps, but it's different now. He stays in his bed and does jump up for the door when I go out. He stays in the bed and lets me pet him instead of getting out and rubbing around me. He still purrs a lot and kneads the blanket and air while I'm petting him and talking to him.  It was funny how he seems very relaxed in his bed by the door (not in the shelter) since his visit indoors.

It was kind of cute how Chaucer and Orville were walking side-by-side with just a couple of inches between them as they went through those rooms. If Orville was FIV+, I would have let them settle any kind of territorial dispute the way they  normally would, but I didn't want to risk it. Orville is over twice Chaucer's size.  It was a nice progress and I hope that Orville will at least feel like he can come in the house when it gets cold and not get attacked. Henryetta didn't even give him the time of day.

 

[chaucer]

I meant to write that he does NOT jump up now to greet me but continues to lie in his bed and look at me with the drowsy "what do you want now?" look.

 

[catwoman707]

 
After the wandering around together through the living room, dining room, kitchen, breakfast room and back to the den,  Chaucer settled on one side of the chair and Orville on the other. Both looked at each other and started to walk toward each other. When they met up, Orville kind of put his leg up and then bent his head toward Chaucer's neck as if to bite it. I think there was a meow sound (no hissing or growling) but I didn't want to risk a fight-fight so I said "No" an opened door. Orville went out. He's currently sleeping in the revamped bed on the steps, but it's different now. He stays in his bed and does jump up for the door when I go out. He stays in the bed and lets me pet him instead of getting out and rubbing around me. He still purrs a lot and kneads the blanket and air while I'm petting him and talking to him.  It was funny how he seems very relaxed in his bed by the door (not in the shelter) since his visit indoors.

It was kind of cute how Chaucer and Orville were walking side-by-side with just a couple of inches between them as they went through those rooms. If Orville was FIV+, I would have let them settle any kind of territorial dispute the way they  normally would, but I didn't want to risk it. Orville is over twice Chaucer's size.  It was a nice progress and I hope that Orville will at least feel like he can come in the house when it gets cold and not get attacked. Henryetta didn't even give him the time of day.

I see much positive in this latest.

If there were going to be any true fighting going on, you would have seen signs and they would not be cruising the house side by side by no means.

I think if anyone is going to pull a territorial dispute it will be Chaucer, since it rightfully is his home first of course, however with this latest, I highly doubt there will be a real issue here.

I think that allowing Orville in often for short periods is excellent for progress and confidence for you to be comfortable with them together unsupervised eventually.

If you give treats, this is a great time to pull them out and give them both a few at the same time, put on the floor and not from your hand.

This is just in case Chaucer gets to feeling possessive of you.

Regular visits inside for Orville, allowing him longer and longer is very good. It's a nice gradual pace.

Henryetta, well girls will be girls, and to her, males are more like unimportant to her, she is the queen of course She can't be bothered with trivial males.

Remember too, if there were even any kind of interactions with the boys, it's not going to be the kind that result in deep bleeding wounds. They have already shown there is not a major issue between them.

Looking very good to me!!

 

[ralphscats]

I'm so happy to read your latest update!! It's going well!!!
I about had a heart attack tonight. Something happened that I was totally unprepared for, so I wanted to let you know for when you experience it. I was giving treats in the kitchen. My little FIV girl, Ellie, is catching on to the routine of when I give them now. She came into the kitchen with the others to get her snack. Purrs was next to her. Ellie licked Purrs on the head!! I about freaked but then I had to remind myself that it's ok. I don't know how long it will take to not totally be thinking about transmission. But I was happy to know that they felt comfortable enough with each other to interact that way.
I look forward to your next update!! Thanks for sharing with us. It makes me so happy to know that a furbaby is getting loved and is going to be saved. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[chaucer]

I'm so happy to read your latest update!! It's going well!!!
I about had a heart attack tonight. Something happened that I was totally unprepared for, so I wanted to let you know for when you experience it. I was giving treats in the kitchen. My little FIV girl, Ellie, is catching on to the routine of when I give them now. She came into the kitchen with the others to get her snack. Purrs was next to her. Ellie licked Purrs on the head!! I about freaked but then I had to remind myself that it's ok. I don't know how long it will take to not totally be thinking about transmission. But I was happy to know that they felt comfortable enough with each other to interact that way.
I look forward to your next update!! Thanks for sharing with us. It makes me so happy to know that a furbaby is getting loved and is going to be saved. [emoji]128522[/emoji]

I think that's why I broke up the thing between Chaucer and Orville because I thought there would be a bite. I do know it has to be a deep bite but I worry. I even worried letting them play with the same piece of string Orville had in his mouth!

Orville came in for a short time this morning. He and Henryetta ate some treats not far from each other. She, of course, hissed at him when he wandered a little closer, but he just moved on without an issue. I did get a picture of that. Chaucer is still a little too curious for my comfort.  They didn't cruise together today but Chaucer stayed on the sofa a little bit before venturing down.  Orville meowed quite loudly today and then stretched for the door handle so I let him back outside. Chaucer tends to rub around the furniture in front of Orville, especially if Orville is outside looking in. Orville.

While Orville won't go back in his shelter, he seems delighted to have the soft pet bed and velour blanket out of there where he can lie on it. He's been sleeping on it for two days now!

 

[ralphscats]

I think that's why I broke up the thing between Chaucer and Orville because I thought there would be a bite. I do know it has to be a deep bite but I worry. I even worried letting them play with the same piece of string Orville had in his mouth!

Orville came in for a short time this morning. He and Henryetta ate some treats not far from each other. She, of course, hissed at him when he wandered a little closer, but he just moved on without an issue. I did get a picture of that. Chaucer is still a little too curious for my comfort.  They didn't cruise together today but Chaucer stayed on the sofa a little bit before venturing down.  Orville meowed quite loudly today and then stretched for the door handle so I let him back outside. Chaucer tends to rub around the furniture in front of Orville, especially if Orville is outside looking in. Orville.

While Orville won't go back in his shelter, he seems delighted to have the soft pet bed and velour blanket out of there where he can lie on it. He's been sleeping on it for two days now!

That's great that they are eating close to each other!!
I'm not sure if you know, but please be careful with string. My neighbor's cat got into some string. Her poor furbaby had to have surgery to get the strung out of his intestines. She spent close to $3000 on him. He almost didn't make it. I didn't realize how dangerous it was until Milo went through this.
Ellie was running through the house chasing Fuzzy this morning. She is still a kitten and just wants to play. I hope the other cats realize she is just playing. I've been trying to play with all of them more to keep them occupied and to tire them out some.

 

[chaucer]

I really should be clearer when I write.

  The string was a vintage cloth tape measure. Strings are dangerous. I use ribbons or the tape measure.

Hopefully, Orville will stay fairly warm now that the temperature is dropping into the 20's (F) at night. I put a small laundry basket out there just now and put some towels in the bottom and then put his pet bed and blanket in it. This means he will "sink" into the bed in the basket and the blanket will come up around him more. He'll be curled up because he's almost too big for the little laundry basket.  This is until I can get straw later. I'm hopeful that when the temps fall below the 20's that he will want to come inside now that he's been in twice.

Like you, I hope my cats realize that there is no reason to fight. Orville is playful like Chaucer so until the two of them work out what's "play," I will worry!

 

[ralphscats]

I really should be clearer when I write.   The string was a vintage cloth tape measure. Strings are dangerous. I use ribbons or the tape measure.

Hopefully, Orville will stay fairly warm now that the temperature is dropping into the 20's (F) at night. I put a small laundry basket out there just now and put some towels in the bottom and then put his pet bed and blanket in it. This means he will "sink" into the bed in the basket and the blanket will come up around him more. He'll be curled up because he's almost too big for the little laundry basket.  This is until I can get straw later. I'm hopeful that when the temps fall below the 20's that he will want to come inside now that he's been in twice.

Like you, I hope my cats realize that there is no reason to fight. Orville is playful like Chaucer so until the two of them work out what's "play," I will worry!

Thank you for clarifying that for me! I was thinking string, like thread. Sometimes I have something in my head abd don't think of other things or meanings. A cloth tape measure is a really great idea for a toy though!! I was talking to a vet yesterday and she said I need to exercise Maddie and Sneezes more to try to help them chill out. She said laser lights are bad because they can never actually catch them. A cloth measuring tape would work!! I've been using Da Bird but they pull the feathers off. Thank tou so much for the great idea!! I've wondered too about when my FIV girl gets ahold of the feathers how long the virus lives on them. Cloth probably wouldn't be the same as a feather.
It's been bitterly cold here the last two days. This morning it was 9. I'm glad you're not having these temperatures. Cantu I send some heat up this way?

 

[catwoman707]

Da Bird is a great toy! But my girls also pull the feathers out darnit!

Keep in mind, the virus is not transferred by saliva

 

[chaucer]

It's like this one.

tape measure.jpg

• chaucer
• Jan 6, 2016

 

[ralphscats]

Thank you both! I haven't been able to go get any more toys as I found a dog. Very long story short he is now back with his owner! Hopefully now I can get back to trying to figure what toys (or tape measures) to get and playing with my furbabies. Hopefully that will destress us all!! [emoji]128522[/emoji]

 

[chaucer]

Updating and question:

Wish I'd had the camera handy just now.  I put some flaked tuna (cat food) on a plate for Orville and decided to set in the den. I opened the door and in walked Orville to eat it just as Chaucer walked into the room from the kitchen. I watched and Chaucer walked up to the plate. Orville stopped eating and laid down next to the plate and then he and Chaucer both stuck their heads next to each other in the plate! I went to get a separate plate for Orville but both sniffed each other and ate a little together. 

Question:  Was this bad?  I know that FIV is mostly due to deep bite wounds, but is there a risk if they have eaten together?

After the food get-acquainted, Chaucer walked to the living room and Orville followed. I let Orville explore and Chaucer just let him.  Henryetta, however, hissed at Orville and growled when he tried to approach her.  Orville stopped to sniff the cats' food bowl in the kitchen, took a bite and moved on. He stopped near the laundry room where the litter boxes are but didn't go in.  After that he wandered over to his food plate and I opened the door and out he went. I still don't want him to feel trapped. The weather is turning much colder next week so I'm hoping Orville will start coming in, even if it is just in/out for now, since he sees he's okay in the house.

 

[catwoman707]

 
Updating and question:

Wish I'd had the camera handy just now.  I put some flaked tuna (cat food) on a plate for Orville and decided to set in the den. I opened the door and in walked Orville to eat it just as Chaucer walked into the room from the kitchen. I watched and Chaucer walked up to the plate. Orville stopped eating and laid down next to the plate and then he and Chaucer both stuck their heads next to each other in the plate! I went to get a separate plate for Orville but both sniffed each other and ate a little together. 

Question:  Was this bad?  I know that FIV is mostly due to deep bite wounds, but is there a risk if they have eaten together?

After the food get-acquainted, Chaucer walked to the living room and Orville followed. I let Orville explore and Chaucer just let him.  Henryetta, however, hissed at Orville and growled when he tried to approach her.  Orville stopped to sniff the cats' food bowl in the kitchen, took a bite and moved on. He stopped near the laundry room where the litter boxes are but didn't go in.  After that he wandered over to his food plate and I opened the door and out he went. I still don't want him to feel trapped. The weather is turning much colder next week so I'm hoping Orville will start coming in, even if it is just in/out for now, since he sees he's okay in the house.

This is another great update!! They are clearly going to be just fine!

NO, no risk of contracting from eating together, none. The ONLY way is deep bleeding bite wounds.

The only other possibility is very rare, but moms nursing their babies. Babies will test positive for a short time, but every so often they do get fiv.

No other way.

Henryetta and he will not fight, she is showing typical female behavior for a new kid in her castle

 

[catsnip404]

That is a fantastic update!  And if you can, it's better to keep him in the house.  FIV cats can pick up more diseases outside that they might not be able to fight off, so an indoor life is really better for them.  Nero gets a little upset, but in the end, it's better for him, however he does seem to enjoy being inside now as well -- he's even started to play with toys.  

Counting down less then two weeks for the retest of Nero, the feral (or maybe semi-feral) that I brought inside that is living in my bedroom.  I had been feeding him for about eight months and finally trapped him (oh the guilt!) and he tested FIV+ but thankfully FeLV-.  I know he got into a fight with an FeLV+ tom, so just to be sure on the FeLV I have had him quarantined all this time, and have done an amazing amount of laundry and handwashing.

Thanks in part to Feliway, he has made major strides in getting over his anxiety, and has turned out to be a really lovey boy.  He still has his moments where anxiety gets the best of him, but it's become more and more rare, even without the Feliway.

But the next step is to introduce him to my four indoor girls that are all FIV-.  It will be a slow introduction, but clearly by now they all are aware of each other, and one of my girls even talks to him through the door.

I was paranoid about FIV too at the beginning, but I'm okay with it now.  Slow and steady will be the course, however long it takes.

For anyone wondering....I blocked the main door of the bedroom to the rest of the house with a dresser that has a solid skirt so there is no nose-to-nose contact under the door.  The only entrance to the bedroom right now is through a bathroom, giving double-door protection.  But it is cute when he's on top of the dresser talking and Miss Julia talks back.  Assuming his FeLV test comes back negative, she'll be my first ambassador.  

 

[catsnip404]

 

[catwoman707]

@CatSnip404  I like what you have to say in your post, but one question.

Why is there a fighting felv positive cat living outside?

What's the story with him if you don't mind me asking?