My 12 year old chubby cat has suddenly lost her appetite and is sleeping constantly

[catwoman707]

 
i'm so sorry that your krissy isn't feeling well. 

do you mean finding via phone/email a vet to do a second opinion? or finding a vet who will do a second opinion after reviewing krissy's medical records/tests (but not actually seeing krissy and doing any tests), over the phone and/or by emails? you may be able to find a vet to do a second opinion the way you're thinking, but i think it still comes down to trusting the (second opinion) vet/the vet's experience.

are you still considering a home cooked and/or raw diet? if so, i do remember reading somewhere on dr lisa pierson's website that she does phone consultations for raw or home cooked diets after she's received and reviewed the patients medical records -- for those cats that have medical issues/have specific dietary needs due to medical issues. there's a fee.

i think i'd worry that a second opinion by another vet where the vet is really only looking at your krissy's medical records and test results, might really only be this other vet interpreting again the symptoms and results of the tests already run. and if there are differing opinions between the two vets, that might confuse me (even more).

I meant finding another vet who more specializes in internal issues in cats that can review her history and records/results and tell me something I can do/not do that will help her.

(via phone/emails) not needing them to see Krissy, she's had all the tests she needs really, another viewpoint I suppose.

After giving her BB turkey canned with fortiflora on it even, she wouldn't eat that, and now I have FF turkey with fortiflora on it and she won't eat that now either, just the dry turkey food.

I trust the advice of LDG, in regards to the supplements, etc but am stuck with the food part, which is huge for Krissy's outcome and recovery.

I want to know just how bad this really is for her, if there are other options that the first vet hasn't taken or considered, maybe a steriod IS better, I don't know.

I know vets can reeeally vary a great deal, and I also can tell Krissy's current vet is at a loss from here, she stopped checking in even, I don't think she really knows what to do.

I mean what do I do if she won't eat what I need her to eat? What do ya do? Another frustrating night, sorry. I hate to see her not feeling good.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

 
I meant finding another vet who more specializes in internal issues in cats that can review her history and records/results and tell me something I can do/not do that will help her.

(via phone/emails) not needing them to see Krissy, she's had all the tests she needs really, another viewpoint I suppose.

After giving her BB turkey canned with fortiflora on it even, she wouldn't eat that, and now I have FF turkey with fortiflora on it and she won't eat that now either, just the dry turkey food.

I trust the advice of LDG, in regards to the supplements, etc but am stuck with the food part, which is huge for Krissy's outcome and recovery.

I want to know just how bad this really is for her, if there are other options that the first vet hasn't taken or considered, maybe a steriod IS better, I don't know.

I know vets can reeeally vary a great deal, and I also can tell Krissy's current vet is at a loss from here, she stopped checking in even, I don't think she really knows what to do.

I mean what do I do if she won't eat what I need her to eat? What do ya do? Another frustrating night, sorry. I hate to see her not feeling good.

that makes sense to me. if i remember correctly, your krissy doesn't do well/gets quite stressed at the vet's, right?  if so, then getting another viewpoint, having a second vet review her medical history and tests results (without having krissy to go to the vet's and/or have more tests run (or re-run)) might very well bring new ideas or a new approach in treating your girl's condition without causing her more stress/upset.

i remember that earlier in this thread you were saying you weren't serving your krissy fish flavored wet foods. may i ask the reason? does she like fish? i'm asking because back over 5 years ago when my two were diagnosed with IBD, i knew i had to choose a wet and dry cat food that they both would eat -- and my snick is a very picky eater. i chose natural balance limited ingredient diet salmon and green pea wet and dry because my two love fish, i knew they would eat it. both cats ate that and only that for over a year before snick started wanting more variety and was not wanting that one food (and only that food) any more. the salmon and green pea canned and dry have just (for the canned) "Salmon, Salmon Broth, Pea Flour, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil" and (for the dry) "Peas, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon" in it -- plus the vitamins and minerals, and some other ingredients like parsley and etc. i'm just wondering if krissy might want to eat a fish canned/dry foods, and that is a single protein food and is limited ingredient.

it sounds like krissy is having some gastro upset. or it could be that she's associating her gastro upset with the BB turkey canned. 

 

[bonepicker]

that makes sense to me. if i remember correctly, your krissy doesn't do well/gets quite stressed at the vet's, right?  if so, then getting another viewpoint, having a second vet review her medical history and tests results (without having krissy to go to the vet's and/or have more tests run (or re-run)) might very well bring new ideas or a new approach in treating your girl's condition without causing her more stress/upset.

i remember that earlier in this thread you were saying you weren't serving your krissy fish flavored wet foods. may i ask the reason? does she like fish? i'm asking because back over 5 years ago when my two were diagnosed with IBD, i knew i had to choose a wet and dry cat food that they both would eat -- and my snick is a very picky eater. i chose natural balance limited ingredient diet salmon and green pea wet and dry because my two love fish, i knew they would eat it. both cats ate that and only that for over a year before snick started wanting more variety and was not wanting that one food (and only that food) any more. the salmon and green pea canned and dry have just (for the canned) "Salmon, Salmon Broth, Pea Flour, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil" and (for the dry) "Peas, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon" in it -- plus the vitamins and minerals, and some other ingredients like parsley and etc. i'm just wondering if krissy might want to eat a fish canned/dry foods, and that is a single protein food and is limited ingredient.

it sounds like krissy is having some gastro upset. or it could be that she's associating her gastro upset with the BB turkey canned. 

 

[bonepicker]

I did not read earlier thread so excuse me if you have tried it. Nutro natural choice chunky chicken loaf or pride by instinct rockstar rabbit. My fussy girl finds those 2 irrestible.

 

[bonepicker]

My girl has controlled IBD with grain free, carageenan free wet only. No dry. The two above have neither ingredient.

 

[micknsnicks2mom]

I did not read earlier thread so excuse me if you have tried it. Nutro natural choice chunky chicken loaf or pride by instinct rockstar rabbit. My fussy girl finds those 2 irrestible.

thank you! it's not my picky eater that's having the gastro upset (though i also have a picky eater, who has medical issues), it's catwoman707's cat, krissy. krissy has a possible sensitivity/allergic reaction to chicken (as well as IBD and pancreatitis -- if i'm remembering correctly) so they're looking for a single protein canned and dry food that has no chicken in it and that krissy (a picky eater) will want to eat.

 

[bonepicker]

P

thank you! it's not my picky eater that's having the gastro upset (though i also have a picky eater, who has medical issues), it's catwoman707's cat, krissy. krissy has a possible sensitivity/allergic reaction to chicken (as well as IBD and pancreatitis -- if i'm remembering correctly) so they're looking for a single protein canned and dry food that has no chicken in it and that krissy (a picky eater) will want to eat.

. Pride is rabbit and pork no chicken might be a safe bet and very tasty if she needs a little nudge to eat.

 

[catwoman707]

 
that makes sense to me. if i remember correctly, your krissy doesn't do well/gets quite stressed at the vet's, right?  if so, then getting another viewpoint, having a second vet review her medical history and tests results (without having krissy to go to the vet's and/or have more tests run (or re-run)) might very well bring new ideas or a new approach in treating your girl's condition without causing her more stress/upset.

i remember that earlier in this thread you were saying you weren't serving your krissy fish flavored wet foods. may i ask the reason? does she like fish? i'm asking because back over 5 years ago when my two were diagnosed with IBD, i knew i had to choose a wet and dry cat food that they both would eat -- and my snick is a very picky eater. i chose natural balance limited ingredient diet salmon and green pea wet and dry because my two love fish, i knew they would eat it. both cats ate that and only that for over a year before snick started wanting more variety and was not wanting that one food (and only that food) any more. the salmon and green pea canned and dry have just (for the canned) "Salmon, Salmon Broth, Pea Flour, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon Oil" and (for the dry) "Peas, Salmon Meal, Pea Protein, Salmon" in it -- plus the vitamins and minerals, and some other ingredients like parsley and etc. i'm just wondering if krissy might want to eat a fish canned/dry foods, and that is a single protein food and is limited ingredient.

it sounds like krissy is having some gastro upset. or it could be that she's associating her gastro upset with the BB turkey canned. 

I asked myself this very question while searching for the right foods for her.

I know initially once I had her blood done last Dec and it showed an allergic reaction going on by her eosinophils being sky high, so I eliminated fish from her diet, little did I know it would be chicken, since she progressively got worse after the fish was gone, but it was because it increased the chicken in her diet! 

Nobody ever mentions the salmon, so I didn't think it was an option.

Yes, Krissy loves fish flavors.

I thought too much fish was bad though?

Gosh, if that's the case and she might do well on salmon, I'm ALL for it, as she will likely eat the darn canned better than she is eating the turkey, and I don't like giving her ff turkey again, that's for sure. PLUS since the BB turkey seemed to be a turn off, she isn't hardly eating the FF turkey now even. Main diet is dry turkey NOT going to get her well on dry only, that's my thinking at least.

Could the salmon be the answer? I wouldn't believe it................................too simple! It's not poultry, it's easy to find, less expensive even, and she likes it. Go figure! Really? Salmon?

In post #182 of the thread http://www.thecatsite.com/t/278273/the-well-known-problem-of-ibd-or-lymphoma/180#post_3646876 she says how fish is bad/hard on the digestive system for IBD cats.

I'd imagine that includes salmon too?

 

[catwoman707]

Krissy has always been a perfect litterbox user, or she will go in the backyard.

I just stopped her starting to poop in the dining room.......she went a very small amt.

It was quite soft with mucous.

Crap.........literally. Why?

 

[goholistic]

 
@GoHolistic  is your Sebastian allergic to chicken as well? But he is okay with turkey?

While Sebastian is my pancreatitis kitty, the only allergy I'm pretty confident he has is to guar gum, although awhile back when I first adopted him I thought he might be allergic to barley as well. He does not get any grains whatsoever, anymore, so that's not an issue. He's on that special rotation diet I told you about earlier as recommended by our TCVM vet for his condition and Chinese diagnosis, but I believe it also provides a good rotation to potentially avoid protein allergies.

My Boo does not have IBD or pancreatitis (that we know of), but he's the one with the more severe food allergies. I've eliminated chicken, duck, beef, and brewer's yeast from his diet. I recently introduced salmon into his diet (not all fish; only salmon) and he is doing okay with that, but I feed it in rotation with venison, rabbit, and turkey. He seems to do okay with turkey despite that it is a poultry. I do not recommend feeding a primarily fish-based diet. Here are a few articles:

Why Fish is Dangerous for Cats by Dr. Jean Hofve

Mercury in Fish-Based Cat Food: What You Should Know by Ingrid King

Feeding Fish to Dogs or Cats is NOT Advisable by Dr. Karen Becker

Of course, bad things can be said about pretty much anything that goes into commercial pet food, but I generally do not feed fish-based foods to Boo or Caesar any more than two meals a week.

Duck-based foods have the potential to be higher in fat, and could, therefore, cause GI upset in some kitties.

As to Krissy's now muscousy stools, that could very well be because of all the different foods. I'm having a difficult time keeping up with what you've tried and exactly what she's eating now. Can you provide a list?

 

[catwoman707]

Well, I was hearing what you were saying about ff turkey canned, and know you are correct, it does not ONLY contain turkey unfortunately.

Once I saw she loves fortiflora, I got some turkey BB canned, she ate half of it the first time, then nothing at all.

I was on quite the mission last week, they now recognize me at Petco ......

Once I discovered that she likes fortiflora, I thought great, let me see what I can feed her now.

I wanted rabbit, but while there is rabbit lid dry by Natures Variety Instinct, the canned has pork in it as well SO disappointing, as I know rabbit is foreign to her and heard that the taste is alot more enticing then other novel proteins.

If I can get away with the pork in that canned food, I would try that. If she will eat the canned, then I would get her switched.

So in searching for a wet/dry, came up empty, except Natural Balance has a lid of duck and green pea, canned and dry.

Krissy hated it.

Then NV Instinct has lamb canned, but as far as dry, it is only dog. However, matching ingredients, they are a perfect match to the cat dry except no taurine in the dog dry.

Tried the lamb canned, eh, she licked all the FF off of it, might have gotten a couple small bites of the food.

So I bought the NB duck, she hated it. Pew, she basically made a scrunchy face and hi-tailed it out the back door! Haha, no kidding.....

OKAY then....I get it!

So she is still on the BB turkey lid dry, and back to the ff turkey.........yep, square one still.

I must say though, after her trials of other canned, she spent the past few days not feeling as good. Back to the hidey sleeping.

Today, she is better again. 

If the turkey dry and the ff is holding her steady, then I suppose I'm stuck with it.  Somehow I don't see her inflammed intestines, etc  getting healed on all that dry and ff though either.

She is super picky, gosh. Dry, not really, canned, VERY. That is why she is still eating dry too. The ONLY reason, as I do believe she would heal on canned vs dry and just maintaining her.

So that's where we are now.

When @mickNsnicks2mom

said she used dry and canned salmon lid, I thought, wow, Krissy is good to eat salmon, but hesitated because it's never been mentioned as an option. I also do know that alot of fish is not a good thing for kitties.

I understand the rotating proteins once she has become well again, and that should be doable, well at least the dry version, ...... I don't want her on dry food really. I'm sort of stuck with it now though. 

But to get her healed and the inflammation down, do you think dry will do it? Well dry and ff canned.    

I was so surprised she was going to poop in the dining room, that's just so very out of character for her. She has never, ever done that before.

What do you think it means, she is associated pain with her box? Jeez I hope not.

 

[cocheezie]

Have you tried this? http://wildcalling.com/products/trotn-tommy/

It does contain cassia and guar gum. I haven't tried it because this flavour is not available in my area, although Cocheezie liked some of the other flavours.

 

[abbyntim]

What about Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet in turkey? It's available in both canned and dry. That's what I initially fed my cat Tim when he was so sick, and he still eats it as part of his rotation today.

And regarding the Instinct rabbit, why is pork a problem? Are you trying to keep Krissy on one single protein? It's really hard to find canned rabbit that is rabbit only. I tried and the only one I found was Wild Calling, which contains gums that upset Tim's stomach. Plus, he has not cared for any of that brand. Rabbit is Tim's second protein now and he does fine with this food as part of his rotation. If you're willing to try raw, you can find a couple of commercial brands that are rabbit only, which Tim also eats.

One thing about the Instinct foods: They are a bit high in fat and I drain off some of the liquid (fat) before I feed them to Tim. As long as I do that, he does very well on these foods.

 

[catwoman707]

 
Have you tried this? http://wildcalling.com/products/trotn-tommy/

It does contain cassia and guar gum. I haven't tried it because this flavour is not available in my area, although Cocheezie liked some of the other flavours.

This looks pretty great! The problem is, the nearest store that carries it is quite a distance from me, bridge toll and all

I wonder if I can ask the local feed supply store to order some, but then they can't exactly order one can for me to try out on Krissy either.................

Also thinkin, maybe Pet Club might be willing to order it?................

Thanks for that info!!

 
What about Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet in turkey? It's available in both canned and dry. That's what I initially fed my cat Tim when he was so sick, and he still eats it as part of his rotation today.

And regarding the Instinct rabbit, why is pork a problem? Are you trying to keep Krissy on one single protein? It's really hard to find canned rabbit that is rabbit only. I tried and the only one I found was Wild Calling, which contains gums that upset Tim's stomach. Plus, he has not cared for any of that brand. Rabbit is Tim's second protein now and he does fine with this food as part of his rotation. If you're willing to try raw, you can find a couple of commercial brands that are rabbit only, which Tim also eats.

One thing about the Instinct foods: They are a bit high in fat and I drain off some of the liquid (fat) before I feed them to Tim. As long as I do that, he does very well on these foods.

I'm pretty happy with the Blue Buffalo Basics, LID turkey and potato she is eating, and the canned I also have that she won't eat though.

It would def. be worth a try to get a can of Instinct LID turkey to see if for some reason she will actually eat that one. 

When Tim was initially sick, you fed him dry and canned and he got well on it? Did he have inflammation like Krissy does?

Honestly, I don't know that the pork in NVInstinct rabbit is a problem, but going by the single novel protein approach, it adds another protein into the mix, so I assumed it wouldn't work for her. Not while attempting to get her better at least.

Thanks!!

 

[abbyntim]

 When Tim was initially sick, you fed him dry and canned and he got well on it? Did he have inflammation like Krissy does?
Honestly, I don't know that the pork in NVInstinct rabbit is a problem, but going by the single novel protein approach, it adds another protein into the mix, so I assumed it wouldn't work for her. Not while attempting to get her better at least.

Thanks!!

I was not clear when I first posted. Tim was on NVI canned only. His problems started with a couple of really bad constipation episodes, which one of the emergency vets thought was caused by dehydration, so we transitioned him from dry to canned in order to resolve that. The canned I fed him for six months or so had gums and carrageenan and he got all sorts of other problems that I believe were a result of inflammation. Then we transitioned him to canned NVI LID turkey and some duck, though he didn't like the duck as much. The lamb was too fatty for him and upset his stomach. After a couple of months, I added the rabbit.

I think vets recommend a single novel protein in order to attempt to isolate an allergy or other food problem. Because Tim improved dramatically just by switching to NVI canned food, I was comfortable feeding him two different proteins. I wanted to feed rabbit because I had read it was good for kitties with stomach issues. I resisted the NVI rabbit because of the pork liver. After discussing with Tim's holistic veterinarian, we decided to try it - I was trying to not mix proteins at any given meal.

I still prefer to feed a single protein per meal, but sometimes you have to compromise and what I am doing now seems to be working for him. He still shows signs of mild tummy upset at times, but he's so much better. I am hoping he will completely heal in time. But this may be as good as it will get for him. Today I let Tim eat a tiny amount of dry a few times a week as a snack. But the bulk of his calories come from raw and canned.

 

[bonepicker]

I agree my Girl as stopped vomiting when I stopped the dry completely. Pride by instinct rockstar rabbit no carageenan and nutro natural choice chunky chicken no carageenan or merrick duck pate (has carageenan)

 

[catwoman707]

Krissy is having another off day today, not eaten all that much either, and I have no excuse for it such as in the past, trying out different foods on her.

Nope, same diet as usual, well except that for a few days now she has been getting about 1/2 of a capsule of nexabiotic, but somehow seriously doubt this will cause her to have an off day.

I found the vet who came and did her ultrasound, she is available part time for consultations at another veterinary clinic, so I called and left a message that I really would like to speak with her over the phone about Krissy.

Now the wait is on....

She is a DVM and DAVCIM, I know this has something to do with oncology and internal medicine, but curious what it actually stands for/means.

I laid awake in bed last night unable to sleep until around 3:30 am, worrying about Krissy.

Gosh, she's so darn healthy otherwise, until this. I guess that's what alot of people say...................

Can she die from this? Ooohh, the very thought............

 

 

[equestrian06]

DACVIM = Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine

DVM = Doctor of Veterinary Medicine

It more or less means she's board certified in oncology, which hopefully translates to having more know-how on the subject than typical vets that didn't focus as much on it to do the certification for it.


Silly question, but have you tried sipper elm bark for Krissy? Ive taken it myself a couple times, but since I've been giving it to Tee, he seems to have felt SO much better. I actually forgot to give it to him yesterday and by his last meal yesterday and first meal today, he seemed a little under the weather but after I gave him his SEB pill, he was good as new again about an hour isn later. I know it specifically helps with tummy upset, it may be worth a shot and certainly wouldn't hurt. plus, its not very expensive either - so if it doesn't do anything, you're not out much cash.

 

[catwoman707]

Well here I sit bawling my head off.

I saw in my thread http://www.thecatsite.com/t/272873/cat-has-an-allergy-to-something-where-do-i-start 

that my poor little Krissy has been feeling like crap for a very long time now, and here it is, close to a year later and still am unable to make her feel better.

I wrote that she was sleeping in the other bedroom/guest room alone all day long, which she is doing right now too.

How tragically sad for her to feel so awful for such a long time.

I can't seem to reach the ultrasound vet either. I'm calling again tmrw. 

It just goes on and on and on, no end in sight, then she will get something even worse, caused by this prolonged mess....................

She means the world to me, and I can't fix her. I'm consumed with her all day, everyday, she's always in my mind. Here I am rescuing all these cats and kittens, spent the entire day at the humane society with the cats and kittens in animal control in their holding cells, knowing full well they are on death row and can't hardly even look into their faces, but making their stay a bit easier, giving them all canned, talking to them, holding the kittens, etc 

All the while my baby girl is home, sleeping alone, not well, who knows how much this is hurting her, and I can't find the answer how to help her.

I'm just sick, sort of losing it tonight as you can probably tell.

 
DACVIM = Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine

DVM = Doctor of Veterinary Medicine

It more or less means she's board certified in oncology, which hopefully translates to having more know-how on the subject than typical vets that didn't focus as much on it to do the certification for it.


Silly question, but have you tried sipper elm bark for Krissy? Ive taken it myself a couple times, but since I've been giving it to Tee, he seems to have felt SO much better. I actually forgot to give it to him yesterday and by his last meal yesterday and first meal today, he seemed a little under the weather but after I gave him his SEB pill, he was good as new again about an hour isn later. I know it specifically helps with tummy upset, it may be worth a shot and certainly wouldn't hurt. plus, its not very expensive either - so if it doesn't do anything, you're not out much cash.

NOT a silly question! @LDGrecommended I get the powder, which I did, but have not started giving it to her yet, because I also got nexabiotic, and trying hard to get her up to the dose LDG said to give, been sprinkling 1/2 a capsule onto her dry food, which she does NOT like, and I'm really trying not to pill her but will if I have to, but LDG said 1/2 capsule twice a day, so pill her twice? Or can I give it to her 1 capsule, once a day? Maybe not. IDK.

I think right now I need to go make the slippery elm brew/tea and get that rolling.

Not exactly sure wth I'm doing in that respect either, will she eat it like that? Does it have a taste? Do you put tea on his food or how do you do his?

Thanks, I appreciate the help. I'm a wreck tonight

 

[cocheezie]

Looking after a sick loved cat is exhausting. It's constant thinking, constant monitoring, even when you are not with the cat. It's frustrating when you can't figure out what's wrong and you are thinking up and trying so many different things. But there's more to it than this. Take a deep breath and enjoy your cat. Just "here we are - isn't this fantastic!" "Let's do something you want to do" - even if it is just a silent Quakerish hanging out in the same room (sometimes she may want some space). And she knows that you help other kitties, and that's okay. She's used to you being gone for long periods of time and coming back smelling like other cats. Even if it's a bad day and nothing you tried has worked, you have the joy of being with a friend.

A number of forum members use slippery elm bark successfully. I never had much luck with it. Coch could detect it a mile away. Hopefully one of the slippery elm success stories will be online soonest with all the information you need.