Mia is massively overweight

[FeralHearts]

Welp she's up again this morning. 17.41 opps 17.20 - still *sigh* I don't get it.... she's not cheating either... but I'm actually using a proper measuring cup so perhaps I will have better success these up coming weeks.

I can see this is going to be a real struggle.

 

[Kflowers]

Before you focus on the ounces, I think you really need to come to terms with your scales. I'd get a weight, any small weight, like the ones used in
kitchens and keep weighing it every day to be sure your scales are giving you the same weight every day.

Also be aware that the position of the tail when weighing the cat can make a significant difference in the weight, particularly if the tail is moving. And the feet.

We weighed once a week, same day every week before breakfast, since the anticipation of food makes her a little more cooperative.

 

[FeralHearts]

Before you focus on the ounces, I think you really need to come to terms with your scales. I'd get a weight, any small weight, like the ones used in
kitchens and keep weighing it every day to be sure your scales are giving you the same weight every day.

Also be aware that the position of the tail when weighing the cat can make a significant difference in the weight, particularly if the tail is moving. And the feet.

We weighed once a week, same day every week before breakfast, since the anticipation of food makes her a little more cooperative.

Thank you.! *hugs*

I think you are totally correct. I'm looking for a scale for her but all of them say if the cat moves it'll be off - and she moves. I've been weight myself 3 times, then her as I hold her close and weigh us both 3 times ad deduct the difference.

I weigh her Monday mornings before breakfast, I failed to do that yesterday so we did it today instead.

I think you are right too that I have to put a weight on the scale and make sure it's reading the same every time first and calculate if it's off.XOXOXOX

 

[Kflowers]

I use the WeighMax w-2809 it's a postal scale I got from Amazon. one reason I got it was that it catches the weight faster than any other. That means after the first couple of times, it caught Sweet Gum's weight.
remember do it before breakfast to get more cooperation. $25, been working for a year. Same details for weighing as above. here's the addy.
registers from 1 ounce to 90 lbs, it is for postage.

Amazon.com : Weighmax W-2809 90 LB X 0.1 OZ Durable Stainless Steel Digital Postal Scale, Shipping Scale With AC adapter : Office Products


if I already told you this, sorry.

 

[FeralHearts]

K Kflowers sorry for the late reply - thank you.

Update:
I've tried a few scales now and I'm having to resort to weighing myself and then her and subtracting *sigh* but I've managed to get her to stay still while holding her so it's about as accurate as I'm going to get.

With that said.

I'm totally failing getting her to loss weight right now. I'm talking epic fails. I'm not totally frustrated yet as I know it's a process and finding what works but...

Date, Time, KG, Pounds:

Mon,Sept 28, 2020	9:00 AM	7.9	17.4165
Tuesday, Sept 29, 2020	-	-	-
Monday, Oct 5, 2020	9:00	7.8	17.1961
Monday, October 12, 2020	10:30	7.7	16.975
Monday Oct 19, 2020	7:22 AM	7.8	17.19
Monday Oct 26, 2020	7:01 AM	7.9	17.4165
Monday, Nov 2	8:45 AM	8	17.63
Monday, November 9, 2020	7:21 AM	8	17.63

As you can se no luck.

Now on the plus the change in the one food has made her want to play more so we are beginning a play ritual now and hopefully that will help. I've not flipped the wet food yet as she won't really eat it - but I'll keep trying.

I'm considering getting some Surefeed Microchip feeders. Two of them. One for Braveheart and one for W.L - Charlie eats his wet food upstairs so I can monitor that one.

They are pricey though and I'm unsure if BH or WL will eat from them. It's why it's going to end up being a last resort. I'll give it, say three more months, and if I'm not seeing even minor consistent weight loss between the changes and play - I'll put some money aside for those. Unless anyone has any other ideas?

 

[FeebysOwner]

Hi. I went back and looked through this thread, and I didn't find where you told us what you are feeding her now. That would be how much canned, how much dry and how much of each - including calorie counts. The times of day you feed her, and how many meals over the course of a day. How are you handling feeding multiple cats too?

All of this makes a difference. Share some more details, please!! If I missed it, sorry - then, please direct me to the post that has all of this information.

 

[Kflowers]

FeralHearts, I feel your frustration. Sweet Gum won't eat wet cat food. She can't eat Purina or Mars, something in their mix just doesn't work for her. She had gotten a couple of pounds over weight and wasn't
able to make her jumps - arthritis.

I don't like to recommend foods because cats are so individual, but you are desperate and I've been there.

I looked through every dry food searching for brands that had a good reputation. Then I sorted for calorie count because in the end dieting is about calories. What I found was Blackwood Lean/senior cat food. She gets a fourth a cup in the morning and again at night. She gets 10 pieces of Dr. Esley's chicken dry food as her treat. I throw them she chases them. It gets her moving. She doesn't like toys when I'm involved. She lost weight very slowly but steadily except for one three week period when she held steady.
She gets an ice cube size of tuna - two teaspoons maybe - with her medicine sprinkled on it.

The four pound bag of Blackwood lasts several months so it's not
pricey. the Dr. Esley's lasts a long time since it's just 10 pieces a day.

Just be patient during the plateaus and ignore them, keep on feeding the same amount as before.

We were lucky, she hates people food. It took almost a year but she lost three pounds and can now make her jumps.

hugs and pets

 

[FeralHearts]

Thank you both for taking the time to reply :-) XOXOX

FeebysOwner I mentioned only one thing diet wise but nothing else - so I will give details as I think maybe I need a good swift kick in the pants.

I started by changing out the dry food for Mia. This whole area is where I'm thinking I'm in need of a kick in the pants.

Now, all the cats are given 2 -3 small wet meals a day and a bit of dry food at night. I reduced all of their wet food over the last few months as they waste a lot. So most days they get 2 a day (just over a 1/4 can each cat) and then at the end of the night they get a handful of dry.

That being said, the wet food I feed them is varied so TBH I can't give an exact calorie content - but I can do a range. (This may be where, at least on part, things aren't working and it is on me.) But the calorie content still doesn't equal the weight no matter how I add it.

Here's the breakdown:

What the Vet wanted: . What they wanted me to do brought her calories content immediately down to a weight she should be at 220 calories which is for a 10.5 pound cat. I felt this was dangerous so I wanted to go very slow. That was to give her 1 cup of the metabolic dry food and 1 can of the metabolic wet per day. She wouldn't eat a full can per day so her calories would have ended up even less. I don't give her many treats at all.

What I've done: (And again I'm having to estimate here which is not great but....)

I've give her just under a 1/4 cup of the dry. It's hills metabolic (297 kcal per cup) I add a dozen or so pieces of the old food right now to keep her interested and a about a dozen pieces of another food I know she'll eat. Calories are about 120 for that meal.

Wet food is about a half a can of various foods 3oz (nearly a full can) to 5.5 oz cans (just over 1/2 of one) as she won't eat the metabolic wet yet. The calories on the wet range from: 92 cal (3 oz) to 191 (5.5 oz) calories per can at the highest range.

So if I do the math 120 + 142.5 (if she ate 3/4 of a 5.5 oz can - which she rarely does) plus add 25 calories for the bone broth and salmon oil that equals 287.5. That would be calories for a 14.5 pound cat. Even if I add in the negligible amount of treats she occasionally gets it still means she should be losing weight. Even if she snuck a bit of the other cats food - and yes she occasionally does take a bite of two and I gently move her away but still. The calculations indicate she should be losing weight. At most what she appears to get is that of a 15 pound cat on a highest calorie day.

Did that make sense?

I add water to her wet food as well.

You can see my confusion - so from my perspective I feel like I'm starving her as that does not seem like a lot of food.

Am I over feeding her? It really doesn't seem like I am since she's not losing weight but I can only go but what I've learned and read.

CALORIE CALCULATOR FOR CATS - that's where I do that calculations for weight.

I'm going to have to get very precise and tough aren't I? *hangs head*

K Kflowers Thanks I will look into that food. I do like the looks of that dry food though. Better than the hills in many ways.

I really want them on wet though tbh. Badly. I don't mind the dry food as sort of a fill in so-to-speak but all the cats LOVVEEE their dry food and calorie wise etc it's much higher and Mia does need more wet as she gets crystals sometimes. I worry if I give her all dry and stick to that alone for calorie count that I'll never get her back on wet. Dry is like crack to these cats. Seriously. Terrible addictions to it.

If I don't give them their dry food snack at 9 pm - I get the stare down... not by just one... all four stand there and give me the stare down. I should take a pic of it. Creepy.

Is Sweet Gums at her right weight now?

 

[stephanietx]

Have you tried going to grain-free food and scheduled feeding times? This worked for one of my kitties who needed to lose weight. We cut her dry food intake down and gave snack size portions. When she started looking for food, I'd distract her with some kind of interactive toy. I also had to learn that I had to say "It's not time yet" and "You're going to be okay." and "I know you think you're starving, but you're not."

 

[FeralHearts]

stephanietx Thanks for replying.

I can certainly try grain free for everything - it wouldn't hurt. TBH Most of what they get is grain free already though. (At least in the wet food) The weird thing about that metabolic dry snack is since I've been giving it to her she has been a wee bit more active - which is a miracle in itself.

She has scheduled feeding times. My kitties are not free fed - lord only knows how big they would all be if I did that! Yikes!

I think I will cut the dry food a tinge though. Even just a few kibbles at a time maybe.

 

[FeralHearts]

The times of day you feed her, and how many meals over the course of a day. How are you handling feeding multiple cats too?

Oh I forgot to answer this really. I went through calories but here are more details:

Kitties are all fed on their own plates and or bowls for dry food. Charlies wetfood is upstairs. Dry food he is fed with the pack.

The three girls all get their wet food together plates are about 3 - 4 feet apart. I have cameras. The hard one to watch is the morning meal as I'm trying to get ready for work.

Wetfood - on my wake up they are fed before I get my first Cup of tea. So 6:30 am - wet food. Slightly more than a 1/4 can each with salmon, bone broth and water.

Wetfood - As soon as I get home, before i eat, anytime around 6 pm - as late as 7 pm but usually around 6ish. Just over a 1/4 can of wetfood each with salmon, bone broth and water.

Cans are 5.5 for the girls and 3 oz for Charlie as he's got a special one.

Dry food - 9:30 pm - Approx 1/4 cup. Each get a different one.

Multiple cats is hard as they will sometimes sneak from each others plates - A mouthful or two. I have to watch.

During my days off first Wet meal is around 8 am and second is 5 ish. Dry is normally closer to 10 pm

 

[Kflowers]

Yes, Sweet Gum is at her right weight, she's not a racing lean cat, that would be another half pound. She's still on the diet, but with a little extra Dr. Esley (higher calorie than the Blackwood.)

I just this minute tried to find the Blackwood lean/senior food, I got a bag of
it a couple of weeks ago from Chewy, and I can't find it. I went to their website and they were talking about updating. But yes, I measured it to
get her to within 220 calories. Yes, I picked it because it was low calorie and because, I too felt it better than the high carb Hill's diet. Chewy has the regular - chicken and salmon.

You can only do what you can do. Each cat like each person is different and diets work differently for each one. It may just take her awhile for the
diet to start working. And it is so much harder when there is more than one, but that is also a good thing as she will play with the others.

I can't remember, did you get her thyroid checked to
see if it was low? Sometimes that makes it hard to lose weight. At the same time, let me warn you that human doctors' tests aren't very good at
discovering low thyroid. I know this because in the near by big city there is one with cutting edge tests who has been able to help a lot people whose doctors said, nothing wrong with you, you just need to push yourself. No reason you're pudgy, no reason you're tired all the time. etc etc. Only, there was. So you can only do what you and your vet's tests can do.

hugs and pets

 

[FeralHearts]

True - each cat if different and will respond differently to food. I'm lucky with her as there are very few things I've found she won't eat - or is that unlucky in her case lol?

I did end up getting her tested for Thyroid. At first the Doctor was a "No, that's rare" but when I had to bring her back again for blood tests they hadn't done... we did Thyroid and Diabetes. I had the works done so that we could try to rule out anything but chubby cat.

Actually I had no idea Human tests weren't good at detecting thyroid. I believe it though. My mom, my aunt and my grandfather all have a low thyroid. All very fit too. So I'm tested every year along with my bloodwork for it. The funniest thing about the thyroid on them is that they all (myself included) have the same blood type. So far mine, they say, is okay.

I'll do some more research on low thyroid in cats etc. because as you can see those calories should, in theory have her losing some weight.

I will say the course on her diet and reduce a bit more of the dry like I did last night and see if maybe it will just take her a while to show improvements. It's possible she's like us humans in so much as when we first start to diet / life change we don't see results... and then one day BOOM they start to happen like something lit a fire under our metabolism. Maybe I can hope for that!

 

[Kflowers]

If you're looking and this is not to push you, Amazon has it in the salmon flavor for cats who will eat fish. No chicken flavor in the lean/senior. Sweet Gum may get fat again. She originally got fat from stress eating when I found and brought home the dog. They're okay together now.

 

[Kflowers]

Back in the early 90s, my cats were getting a little solid, they ate wet and had dry on hand. The vet suggested the Hill's R/D. It did stop them from gaining weight, but none lost weight on it. We then got the Hill's W/d. Same
results. This is just my experience and, I believe, the formula may have been changed somewhat since then. I know Hill's senior dog food changed formula in the last ten years. That would be when they changed owners. First bowl of it the dog absolutely refused to eat it and I looked it up.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I read through what you are feeding your cats, and when. Two things came to mind:

1.) a 12 hour stretch between meals might be a tad bit too long. In some cats, and that could be Mia, it can affect their metabolism (as it does with humans as well), causing it to slow down to 'preserve' their reserve of fat. It sometimes can also lead to constant thoughts of food because they feel hungrier throughout the 12-hour 'fast, making them more 'food driven'. Any human being on a diet is typically told to eat 4-5 smaller meals a day, as opposed to 1-3 larger meals; I cannot imagine why that wouldn't apply to at least some cats, especially those who tend to be overweight. Something to consider since you were thinking about timed feeders anyway.

2.) Not all canned foods are 'equal' in terms of calories. Here is my example - Feeby likes FF pates, which run around 90 calories for a 3.0 oz can. She also like Wellness Core (duck & turkey) which is over 200 calories per 3.0 oz. can. On the days she eats the Wellness, she still eats the same amount of food in quantity overall. So, those days she can run anywhere from 300-350 calories, whereas the days she doesn't eat Wellness, she eats in the range of 250-275. If you are averaging calories, you could be missing just how many calories Mia eats on any given day. If you can find enough foods that she will eat which range less in calories, any of the higher caloric foods could be eliminated from her diet. Just something else to consider. Both of these foods in my example are decent, grain free foods - but, certain meat sources tend to be higher in fat content than other.

Keep at it. If she heathy otherwise, and you monitor her with regular blood work, looking for things like diabetes/etc., it might just be that Mia will never be a slender cat!

 

[Willowy]

She also like Wellness Core (duck & turkey) which is over 200 calories per 3.0 oz. can.

I thought that sounded wrong so I looked it up, and that is what Chewy says, but it must be a typo :/. Wellness' website says the 3-oz can has 117 calories: CORE® Pâté Turkey & Duck

I'd actually really like to find a cat food with that many calories, for sick cats! Even a/d doesn't have that many and it's made to be high-calorie.

Taking her down to 220 calories would be fine, that wouldn't make her lose weight too fast. You can even go down to 15 calories per pound (of ideal weight) for weight loss, although you'd definitely want to do that gradually.

To be honest, if she'll eat it and not starve herself, I'd just give her canned food only, and maybe 5-10 pieces of kibble when she starts staring. Kibble seems to be pretty addictive and sometimes you just have to go cold turkey. Of course, if she refuses to eat enough canned food (at least 15 calories per pound of ideal weight) you'd have to rethink the strategy.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I thought that sounded wrong so I looked it up, and that is what Chewy says, but it must be a typo :/. Wellness' website says the 3-oz can has 117 calories: CORE® Pâté Turkey & Duck

Well, that makes a whole lot more sense!!!! Thanks!

Taking her down to 220 calories would be fine, that wouldn't make her lose weight too fast. You can even go down to 15 calories per pound (of ideal weight) for weight loss, although you'd definitely want to do that gradually.

I think the whole gist of slowly lowering the calories was because Mia WANTS to eat, so a drastic drop off is only going to make her feel as if she is hungry and not offer as much opportunity to 'shrink' her stomach gradually.

There is also the issue of only feeding her twice a day - she probably needs to eat a less amount, but more often.

 

[FeralHearts]

So Mia is still fat. In fact she's now gained weight.

I'm at a loss. She's at the vet right now as she's not pooping / peeing very much if at all. Trips and trips to the litter box with little to zero. - there is blood in either urine or poop or both - no idea. I'm very very worried.

I'm hoping it's simple and she gets to come home and I'm very scared.

So I'm just taking the positive attitude it's simple and she's coming home.

When she does - this has to be it. She has to loss the weight. She has gain near 2 pounds in 6 months.

She's on a diet, low calories - this makes no sense.

I have tried:
-Prebiotics,
- Probiotics
-food changes, calories that are for a 10 pound cat (vet said so and my way wasn't working sooo.)
- I've tried supplements for her gut.
- Tested for diabetes - fine
- Tested for thyroid issues - fine
- Bloodwork is ok.
-urine - well she gets crystals sometimes but the last two years they can't take samples as too fat.
-She does move very well and the most I can get her to play is about 3 minutes. Mostly very lazy play as it's hard for her.

She is a feral but been in the house about 5 years now and she's turning 11 in May.

She is scared of her own shadow most days.

When she was first brought in it took me a year to get her to leave her safe room on a daily basis. It took 6 -8 months to get her to trust her cat tree.

She runs at the slightest anything but so loves when you sit with her and pet her. She wants to attention but is so scared of things.

I don't know what options I have left to try.

Three I can think of:

- Keep her on the diet but the metabolic dry food ONLY. Small meals, same calories - which is like about 175 calories on a good day. She usually doesn't eat it all. No wet. (she does drink water)
- Try to get a harness and try to get her outside to try to get her to move more.
- rehome her for a month to see if someone else has better luck. LAST RESORT because that would be sooooo stressful on such a fearful cat. I don't want her to die and I'm failing her somehow.

Things is outside she was a nice size until about a year before she had an emergency and I brought her in - she very suddenly got fat outside. SO the weight gain began while she was still feral. Both of her sisters are inside now too and neither of them has this issue.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Just curious what all you did to try to get her to lose weight - things like canned food with high protein/low carbs/high fiber/low fat, feeding more than twice a day, gradually reducing the 1/4 dry food you were giving at night - maybe getting it down enough to offer her treat balls or food puzzles so she has to work at eating it, charting her daily calories, and reducing them gradually, and weighing her weekly to see how the food changes were affecting her weight. Your vet is dead-wrong about a drastic lowering of calories all at once for the purpose of weight loss. The cats most negatively affected by this are overweight cats. Additionally, the weight of a cat is not the only determinant of being overweight - body condition charts should also be used. I have included one below, in case it has not been shared with you before.

There are timed feeders for canned food, with multiple compartments in order to feed multiple times a day. Some of them have compartments for ice so that the food is less likely to spoil when left out for hours. Recording the amount of calories consumed on a daily basis is a must, as are weekly weigh ins.

I am not sure what the theory/logic is behind feeding only dry food - even one labeled as 'metabolic'. If you compare the carbs in dry vs. wet you will see how much more dry contains, and the odds are the protein is less in the dry than in canned foods. Dry food is also not going to help with either constipation or urinary crystals. My cat was more prone to urinary problems when she was eating dry food only, and she has always been a prolific water drinker compared to most cats. Now she is on canned only, with some water added, and still drinks just as she used to, but (knock on wood) her urinary issues seem to be behind her. Is there a metabolic canned food that you could try? I know Hill's has one, so I suspect others do too.

Did your vet also run any tests to look for hormonal/adrenal issues? One example of a hormonal issue is hyperadrenocorticism/Cushing's Disease, while rare in cats, it is brought on by excess production of cortisol - which, btw, is called the stress hormone. That could explain your cat's other fear-based behaviors. You may also have to consider x-rays, CT scan/MRI, and even an ultrasound to look for abnormalities related to the adrenal and pituitary glands. I'd talk to the vet about this whole aspect.

Lastly, I think you said your cat does not move very well. Aside from the weight, has she been checked for arthritis? Most cats tend to have some degree of arthritis as they age - overweight ones are even more inclined.

Obesity in Cats | PetMD