Took in a Pregnant Stray

[firefly5003]

She did have very small bald spots on the top of her head but they are almost clear now.  She also had a lot of hair missing under her tail but we assumed that from stress cleaning..  She also has an area under her mouth that is missing hair (the vet saw that and didn't say anything).  She doesn't have a collar.  Ugg, I hope it isn't ringworm...  If it looks worse tomorrow I will call the vet.

We did watch Dollhouse for bit but we stopped a few episodes in (I forget why, I just know it was my boyfriend's fault ).  I do love Joss Whedon.  I'll look into the names .

 

[firefly5003]

Okay, tushie pictures!  Maybe NSFW!?  I mean.. I am sure people would think weird things if I was look at kitten butts at work.  Can anyone figure out sex from these?  It was very hard because mommy gets impatient with kittens out of the nest.

#1 girl?

tushie_1.jpg

• firefly5003
• Jul 19, 2012

#2 boy?

tushie_2.jpg

• firefly5003
• Jul 19, 2012

#3 girl?

tushie_3.jpg

• firefly5003
• Jul 19, 2012

#4 .. no clue, mommy took him/her back before I could get a good picture

tushie_4.jpg

• firefly5003
• Jul 19, 2012

I can try to get better ones if someone thinks it will help figure it out.

 

[kushmama89]

honestly...it looks like only the last is male. but its a bit hard to see it. but the first three are spaced so close. the whole slit/dot thing makes no sense to me since my three week old girl has a boy dot but if you raise her tail good has a slit. and she is dedinitely a girl. look at all 4. can you tell a real difference on any?

 

[eb24]

Yeah that much hairloss is not a great sign. I would for sure call the vet. If they suspect ringworm it takes 10-14 days to get the results back but they may go ahead and start them all on a course of treatment. I would tell the vet when you call you are concerned that's what it may be so they don't overlook it. 

I agree that #1 looks female and #2 male. I would say #3 is male but it's hard to tell from that picture's angle. My gut says #4 is female but again, hard to tell in that pic. Try to re-take pics of 3 and 4. Also, Since you are pretty sure what 1 and 2 are you can just compare them and that will give you a good idea. 

And agreed it's always the boyfriend's fault. 

 Re-invest in Dollhouse! 

 

[eb24]

honestly...it looks like only the last is male. but its a bit hard to see it. but the first three are spaced so close. the whole slit/dot thing makes no sense to me since my three week old girl has a boy dot but if you raise her tail good has a slit. and she is dedinitely a girl. look at all 4. can you tell a real difference on any?

The differences are very slight but if you look at enough kitten behinds (especially if you can compare them side to side) you do start to see differences. Obviously it's harder to do in pictures than it is in person. But, I'm sad to say I spend many a weekend sexing kittens so it's something I am familiar with. I seriously need a new hobby........

Also, the younger they are the more likely it is to make mistakes because as you pointed out everything is so close together. Even seasoned vets get it wrong sometimes (I had one foster they were certain was female until they went to spay her). Your baby is only 3 weeks- who knows, they may have guessed wrong! 

 

[kushmama89]

oh she better not be a boy! lol. whe was the only one completely differerent out of the 3 and rwo vet techs and a vet told me girl. is shes a boy my hubby just might not let me kep hee.

 

[missymotus]

I always find it easiest to sex them at birth, there can be some swelling in the days following, after that it becomes easy again.

Photo 1 is a girl, 2 is a boy. The others are at the wrong angle to tell but if you compare to those two photos you should be able to figure it out.

I wouldn't expect a vet or vet tech to get it right unless they are very used to dealing with young kittens.

 

[firefly5003]

Sorry, their squirmy little butts were hard to get a picture of.  I will try to look again when they aren't nursing.

Weight gains weren't good today so I am worried (but they were good yesterday).  I'll post them all to recap (starting at about 1 day old).

#1    82 -> 92 -> 107 -> 115 -> 127 -> 132  (+5)

#2    84 -> 93 -> 106 -> 118 -> 133 -> 138 (+5)

#3    79 -> 88 -> 101 -> 113 -> 127 -> 128 (only 1 gram today)

#4    86 -> 102 -> 115 ->130 -> 146 -> 157

#4 is significantly bigger than the others, but they all seem to be nursing equally.  Should I be concerned about the gain today?  And they seem under what they should be.  The scale is cheap and we are doing it on carpet so it might be a little inconsistent..

 

[orientalslave]

Try putting something solid under the scales - a tray for example.  And see what tomorrow brings.  The previous day's gains were fine.  Mum is eating well?  She gets as much to eat as she wants?

 

[missymotus]

You definitely need a hard surface for the scales, a hard cover book or tray is perfect.

An off day here and there is ok, see how they are tomorrow. 

 

[firefly5003]

Yeah, mom always has wet and dry food available (I don't think she is touching her dry) and she eats about 3 cans a day.

She keeps moving her kittens.  Yesterday she put them under the bed, we got her content with the box again, then at night we go in to find the kittens on the bed under a fold in the sheets.  As much as I love kittens on the bed, I couldn't have them there because they could wiggle off or get squished, so we locked her in the closet with them for the night.  Now she is taking one kitten under the bed with her and nursing.  I don't really like her under the bed.  She got smart and is now in the middle so we can't reach.  At least before she was at the edge.  

 

[eb24]

She keeps moving her kittens.  Yesterday she put them under the bed, we got her content with the box again, then at night we go in to find the kittens on the bed under a fold in the sheets.  As much as I love kittens on the bed, I couldn't have them there because they could wiggle off or get squished, so we locked her in the closet with them for the night.  Now she is taking one kitten under the bed with her and nursing.  I don't really like her under the bed.  She got smart and is now in the middle so we can't reach.  At least before she was at the edge.  

So my solution to this- I bought plywood and cut it to fit on the sides of the bed so it's totally blocked off. Give her as few options as possible of where to nest so her nursing box will be more appealing. If you want pics of my set up I can send them to you. 

 

[firefly5003]

Thanks ^_^ I think we are good for the moment.  I was sitting in the closet with them and she moved one under another blanket so I put them there and she seem content for now.

So in the confusion of her moving a kitten or two, I come in the room to find three kittens in their box full of little poo spots.  Wow the smell.. I am normally horrible with bad smells to begin with and wow, that was nauseating.  I changed the blanket right away and got all the kittens in there and put them back in the closet. I was sitting with her and in light of today's episode, I held a distressed kitten's butt up to her and she took care of it.  I have a new found respect for mommy cats.  That was disgusting.  I don't know how they do it.

What should their poo be like?  I am having trouble finding that information for kittens this young.

And, today's weights were still pretty bad, but at least #3 did pretty well since he (or she?) did the worst yesterday.

#1 132 -> 135

#2 138 -> 141

#3 128 -> 138

#4 157 -> 166

I think #3 is a boy but it is harder to tell than the first 2, and #4 is really hard - he/she looks pretty different.  The spacing is bigger but it looks more like a line than a dot.

 

[firefly5003]

Sorry, double post, but I am kind of worried about the kitten poop since I don't know what it should be.  Right now it is light yellow and pretty liquid.  One kitten was crying and squirming a lot so again I put his tushie near mommy and she barely did anything and out came some. It happened with him and another earlier.  Before, one of them, I forget which, was a little more solid lumps but still mostly liquid.  There was also some smeared on another towel but I didn't see that.  What should I expect from kitten poops?  Is this normal?  Oh yes, and it smells very bad.  Like a spoiled milk smell I guess.

 

[orientalslave]

Is mum OK?  It sounds a bit like she might not be that well, not have a much milk as she should and not be caring enough for the kittens.

 

[firefly5003]

I don't think she is any different, but it is so hard to tell since I have had her long. She doesn't seem to have much energy but that may just be her since she had always been that way. We did get her to play a bit today. And she has been eating wet fiod buy not drinking. I don't know why she is moving them so much. The biggest problem seems to be that she can't find a spot she feels good about then some kittens get ignored for a bit. I know she can hear my cats and i think that is stressing her out. I don't know if I should keep her in the closet or not. It is pretty big and has enough room for everything plus space for her to stretch out, but I don't know if that upsets her more. The kittens do nurse a lot but I don't know exactly how much they should benor what they at getting. She goes over and nurses if they squeak. The black one is much bigger but I am assuming he/she is the one more on track. #1 and 4 are both opening their eyes and some started purring.

I'm on my phone so sorry for typos.

 

[eb24]

It is normal for kittens this age to have yellowish-brown stool- very liquidy since they aren't eating any solids. I wouldn't worry too much about the weight gains at this point- remember it's a marathon and not a sprint. If they start losing weight I would be concerned, but some days they are going to gain more than others. There isn't a way to know how much milk they are getting and that's why watching their weight is so critical. But, clearly they are getting enough or they would be losing and crying all the time. SInce they aren't, try not to worry.

It's also normal to find poop smears here and there. Mom probably starts eliminating them and moves onto the next. Don't worry if she doesn't lick them when you think they need it- she can smell it and knows what she is doing. Since Kaylee has given you no indication so far that she isn't doing a great job I would just trust her instincts. Unfortunately, poop, vomit, and other yucky messes are just part of having kittens. I always just change out the bedding twice a day because stuff like this just happens. It's going to start happening A LOT more as they start to learn how to eat and poop on their own so prepare yourself! 

As far as the den moves, all I can say is it is normal. I've had Mom's want to move every few hours. All you can do is block off the places you don't want her to go and entice her to more appropriate places, which it seems like you are doing. And, check every few hours to make sure no child was left behind. 

 Yes, she may hear your cats outside the door but she always has so that can't be causing her any more stress than it already was. I think she would be fine if you closed her in but that's up to you. Whatever you decide, just try and be as consistent as you can. 

I am not at all saying this next part to try and discourage you from asking questions, and I know how you feel (because I was the same way at first) but try to give yourself peace of mind by having faith in the process. A mother caring for her young is a the most basic and natural instinct there is. While what she is doing isn't instinctual to us, it is to her, and you have to trust that Kaylee knows what she is doing. Thinking about it from that perspective here is an analysis to consider: Kaylee knows she has to eliminate her kittens, but there are four of them with similar needs at the same time, and naturally she can't clean up all of their mess simultaneously. Some of that mess makes it onto her den. That scent will attract predators. So, Kaylee moves her babies. Everything she is doing is for an instinctual reason. When something new happens, of course ask about it on here, but also think about why she may be exhibiting that behavior. Understanding the cause may help you not feel so nervous while you're waiting for answers. Remember: this should be a fun experience for you and she will fair better under your care than she ever would have outside. There is almost nothing you can do that would make it worse for her than what it would have been!  

Focus on trying to accommodate her as much as possible. She obviously loves you and loves attention, so just keep praising and reassuring her. Making her comfortable will allow her to be the best Mom possible and together, you two can raise some well-trained, socialized, irresistible kittens! 

 

[firefly5003]

We have a new problem.  Now mom is moving them into her littler box.  We have Arm & Hammer fragrance free clumping litter.  I will go out and get that cat pine stuff today, but that is what we have right now and I worry about them in there.  Not to mention she has to have somewhere to go to the bathroom.  I tried to move them back once but mom wasn't having that, so I let her be.  My boyfriend is insistent on moving them but I don't know - she just keeps moving them back and I don't want her to get frustrated but it can't be good for them in there.  But she tends to leave one or two behind.  One was screaming for a while during this and noticed he had some poop sticking out a tiny bit, and mom wasn't helping (I gave it maybe 15 minutes) so I stepped in and helped.  I know I should probably just let mom do her thing but I couldn't stand the screaming.  I have such a weak stomach when it comes to this kind of stuff.  I was very close to vomiting and I haven't since I was a little kid (and I've even had the stomach flu not too long ago - that wasn't fun)! Update: We just put in a clean blanket and moved the kittens to the box just to change out the litter to the kitty pine, and one of them had liquid poop literally squirt out while mom was eating.  The one I helped earlier looked very mushy but not complete liquid.  I just don't know what is normal.  It is the same two kitten (#2 and 3) that I have been seeing poop, and I keep forgetting which is which but one might be worse than the other with much more liquid.

And I totally understand just having faith in it.. it is just so hard for me.  I'm not one to believe in luck, but my life has this horrible tendency of messing up pretty much everything I get excited over (wow that sounded emo.. I don't mean it to be), so I am just so worried something will go wrong and it will crush me since that is what I have learned to expect.  If it is something that I could have prevented it will stay with me for a long time - I am bad at letting guilt go.  I understand why she is moving them but I can't have them on my bed since they are very good and crawling around, and I really don't want them in the litter box and I don't know how to get her happy with other spots and I don't want to upset her and then I just get stressed.  And I also don't know how good of health Kaylee is in so that worries me since she just doesn't seem to have much energy and she has sort of a "help me" look in her eyes all the time (that is probably me just being insane though).  She looks like she has been through a lot.  All I really know is she doesn't have leukemia or FIV and her stool sample was good.  But thank you for trying to bring me back down to Earth - you are right and I will really try to listen.  I guess I am way more of a control freak than I thought I was. Control freak + paranoid = one stressed out, insane chick.

 

[clynn11]

All the moving isn't good for momma and babies. She's feeling insecure and unprotected and wants to find a place she feels safe and comfortable. Do you have a room you can put her in, and keep her confined to that room alone? And don't let any of your other animals go in there, and only go in there every once in a while to check on them. Also, if you're noticing the same kittens multiple times having poo on them and not being cleaned, momma may just be feeling overwhelmed and you may have to do the work for her.

Just keep weighing them. If there's a 2-3 day period of low gains for a kitten, then you may have to step in and do supplemental feedings.

 

[firefly5003]

They are locked in my bedroom and we have her food, litter box, and a large and small box in our walk in closet, which is pretty big.  We tried locking her in there a few times but she seems much happier being let out.  Should we keep her in there?  I worry that stresses her out too.  I know she likes when I am in there with her.  From the beginning she would never leave my side if she had the choice.  I am sure she knows I am stressed and that isn't helping.  And I think they are being cleaned after but I am seeing them actually poop.  The one just did on his own (liquid squirts) and earlier I helped one, and yesterday they seemed to get poop all over their box on their own.  Right now mom moved them under the nightstand so put a blanket under there while she wasn't sitting there and she seems happy for now.