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- #361
That is what I think too, that it is from the frequent vomiting, and that it is another symptom but not the actual problem :-(.
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Toby vomiting and losing weight, fine otherwise
- Thread starter barbb
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This poor kitty and I want to add my condolences on the loss of your other kitty as well. I'm so sorry you're going through this again.
Thank you all for your kind words! What a blessing to have just found this site, where have I been?? BarbB, I did follow the link you provided and am somewhat encouraged that the bright blood may be from the continual vomiting. I have already asked my vet for a referral to the local speciality hospital for a biopsy, which I guess would also diagnose IBD as well as a malignancy.
finnlacy - yes and they are brother and sister, both found by the grace of God 12 1/2 years ago! They were my only family for awhile and it is just heartwrenching to have to had seen them both sick and the same time! I have a husband now and 7 other animals, and my heart is still breaking!
finnlacy - yes and they are brother and sister, both found by the grace of God 12 1/2 years ago! They were my only family for awhile and it is just heartwrenching to have to had seen them both sick and the same time! I have a husband now and 7 other animals, and my heart is still breaking!
I forgot to mention that Angel was on the anti nausea medication mentioned in the other forum, and when I took her on Thursday to learn how to give her sub-q liquid, she was drooling. Probably from the withdrawal affect of the medication. I have to say that was a relief (if there is such a thing) to read because that was one of Charlie's main symptoms throughout his SCC. Thanks again and Merry Christmas!
Hi Laurie, I'm a Laurie too.
I'm so sorry to read about your Charlie.
Such a beautiful boy. :heart2:
I'm so glad you found us here at TCS. When you're going through something like this, it REALLY helps to share experiences with others that have been through it - and with people who love their kitties in just the same way and don't think you're crazy. :rub:
OK, as to Anglel. Cancer can go undiagnosed despite every diagnostic there is.
BUT, in the absence of such a diagnosis, the best thing to do is to treat kitty as if the problem were IBD. IBD is ... very simply, internal inflammation and must be controlled, to the extent possible, through diet. There are medications and supplements that can help, but diet is the starting point. IBD can be definitively diagnosed through tissue biopsy (unless it is inflammatory bowel syndrome, not "inflammatory bowel disease"), but that's really not necessary, as the steps needed to be taken for IBD in relation to diet are what's best for our kitties under any circumstances. IBD is often just... a "wake up" call that causes us to focus on learning about feline nutrition.
What are you feeding your baby?
I fed my cats prescription dry food for many years (males with struvite cyrstal problems, a female with FLUTD), until I learned how taxing kibble is on a cat's system. This is a good place to start: http://www.catinfo.org
We had just rescued an FIV+ kitty that was a health mess, and we sought out a holistic veterinarian. She's the one that insisted we drop the kibble, and get all the kitties switched to timed meals on wet food only: high protein, low carb food with as short a list of ingredients as possible. She talked to us about species appropriate nutrition for cats - something I'd never thought about before. Actually, what she wanted was for us to put our kitties on raw food, but I wasn't ready for that. I'd seen the forum existed on this site, but never bothered with it. :lol3: So in late 2010, we switched to all canned food. The switch wasn't easy, as most of my cats were 8 at the time. But it needed to be done. Chumley (the FIV+ kitty) was having "allergy" problems (mowing his abdomen and forelegs clean of fur), chronic diarrhea... poor little guy, he was miserable. And the 2nd most recent rescue kitty was Billy - and he was fat. He LOVES food. So he needed me to pull the free feeding anyway.
Well - at that point I started learning about feline nutrition. I used to argue here against raw food as I started learning - only because of the issues of potential bacterial infection, really. But it was during these discussions and that research (especially when I learned about what goes into cat food, and what's allowed in cat food), that I decided to switch to raw. We had some logistics issues (8 cats and 2 people in an RV with a VERY tiny freezer!). I started with commercial raw food, so I could work on transitioning them while I got more comfortable with the whole concept. That was in January of this year, and now I feed them homemade raw food.
Raw food is the closest you can get to what they would eat in the wild - the diet their bodies are literally designed to eat. It is called the "cancer fighting" diet, and many people, having dealt with months or years of diarrhea or vomiting in their kitties will often see an improvement within just a few days of the time their kitties move to 100% raw (which can take a while). That's not to say there won't be issues along the way - and the longer the problem has existed, the longer their bodies can take to heal. But the bottom line is that so many kitties' bodies are literally rejecting the food we feed them, because it's just not what they need.
Edited to add: We switched our kitties to a raw food diet in January of this year while Lazlo was still on chemotherapy and taking 5mg of pred a day. In fact, we've kept him on the pred (and the pepcid a/c, to prevent the return of his ulcers. I'm using the pepcid 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off).
Switching an IBD kitty is not a guarantee the vomiting (or diarrhea) will stop. And finnlacy's site, http://www.ibdkitties.net is chock full of information for all the issues that may need to be managed along the way (and many people are not comfortable feeding raw, or can't afford commercial raw food and don't want to make homemade).
FYI, I feed what is called "prey model raw," though I do feed several meals of ground food that I buy online and have shipped (frozen) from a company that specializes in providing raw foods for pets. Depending on where you live, there may be a variety of commercial frozen raw food options. These are easy to use, and if you want help identifying brands, we can provide that help.
Other things that may help your Angel: digestive enzymes and probiotics. I don't know where you're located, but I am using these digestive enzymes for Lazlo: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet.aspx
And here is a thread discussing them: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/251359/questions-about-digestive-enzymes
As to the probiotics, they won't help with her vomiting (I don't think), but they will help her digestion. Cats in the wild eat a daily dose of "probiotics" because they eat the entire mouse, guts and all. A high protein diet (in cats) has been shown to result in stool that indicates there are low counts of lactobacilli and bifidobacterium in their systems. Again, the holistic vet basically insisted that we find a human acidophilus supplement with 10 billion live CFU (colony forming units) and start using it immediately (one capsule per day). This is the one we use (I just open the capsule and sprinkle it on the meal - they like it).
BTW - you might want to start your own thread about Angel in this forum. It would likely help put more eyes on it. :rub:
And vibes for you and Angel! 
********************************************************
Barb, how is Toby?
I'm so sorry to read about your Charlie.
Such a beautiful boy. :heart2: I'm so glad you found us here at TCS. When you're going through something like this, it REALLY helps to share experiences with others that have been through it - and with people who love their kitties in just the same way and don't think you're crazy. :rub:
OK, as to Anglel. Cancer can go undiagnosed despite every diagnostic there is.
BUT, in the absence of such a diagnosis, the best thing to do is to treat kitty as if the problem were IBD. IBD is ... very simply, internal inflammation and must be controlled, to the extent possible, through diet. There are medications and supplements that can help, but diet is the starting point. IBD can be definitively diagnosed through tissue biopsy (unless it is inflammatory bowel syndrome, not "inflammatory bowel disease"), but that's really not necessary, as the steps needed to be taken for IBD in relation to diet are what's best for our kitties under any circumstances. IBD is often just... a "wake up" call that causes us to focus on learning about feline nutrition.What are you feeding your baby?
I fed my cats prescription dry food for many years (males with struvite cyrstal problems, a female with FLUTD), until I learned how taxing kibble is on a cat's system. This is a good place to start: http://www.catinfo.org
We had just rescued an FIV+ kitty that was a health mess, and we sought out a holistic veterinarian. She's the one that insisted we drop the kibble, and get all the kitties switched to timed meals on wet food only: high protein, low carb food with as short a list of ingredients as possible. She talked to us about species appropriate nutrition for cats - something I'd never thought about before. Actually, what she wanted was for us to put our kitties on raw food, but I wasn't ready for that. I'd seen the forum existed on this site, but never bothered with it. :lol3: So in late 2010, we switched to all canned food. The switch wasn't easy, as most of my cats were 8 at the time. But it needed to be done. Chumley (the FIV+ kitty) was having "allergy" problems (mowing his abdomen and forelegs clean of fur), chronic diarrhea... poor little guy, he was miserable. And the 2nd most recent rescue kitty was Billy - and he was fat. He LOVES food. So he needed me to pull the free feeding anyway.
Well - at that point I started learning about feline nutrition. I used to argue here against raw food as I started learning - only because of the issues of potential bacterial infection, really. But it was during these discussions and that research (especially when I learned about what goes into cat food, and what's allowed in cat food), that I decided to switch to raw. We had some logistics issues (8 cats and 2 people in an RV with a VERY tiny freezer!). I started with commercial raw food, so I could work on transitioning them while I got more comfortable with the whole concept. That was in January of this year, and now I feed them homemade raw food.
Raw food is the closest you can get to what they would eat in the wild - the diet their bodies are literally designed to eat. It is called the "cancer fighting" diet, and many people, having dealt with months or years of diarrhea or vomiting in their kitties will often see an improvement within just a few days of the time their kitties move to 100% raw (which can take a while). That's not to say there won't be issues along the way - and the longer the problem has existed, the longer their bodies can take to heal. But the bottom line is that so many kitties' bodies are literally rejecting the food we feed them, because it's just not what they need.
Edited to add: We switched our kitties to a raw food diet in January of this year while Lazlo was still on chemotherapy and taking 5mg of pred a day. In fact, we've kept him on the pred (and the pepcid a/c, to prevent the return of his ulcers. I'm using the pepcid 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off).
Switching an IBD kitty is not a guarantee the vomiting (or diarrhea) will stop. And finnlacy's site, http://www.ibdkitties.net is chock full of information for all the issues that may need to be managed along the way (and many people are not comfortable feeding raw, or can't afford commercial raw food and don't want to make homemade).
FYI, I feed what is called "prey model raw," though I do feed several meals of ground food that I buy online and have shipped (frozen) from a company that specializes in providing raw foods for pets. Depending on where you live, there may be a variety of commercial frozen raw food options. These are easy to use, and if you want help identifying brands, we can provide that help.
Other things that may help your Angel: digestive enzymes and probiotics. I don't know where you're located, but I am using these digestive enzymes for Lazlo: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/digestive-enzymes-for-pet.aspx
And here is a thread discussing them: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/251359/questions-about-digestive-enzymes
As to the probiotics, they won't help with her vomiting (I don't think), but they will help her digestion. Cats in the wild eat a daily dose of "probiotics" because they eat the entire mouse, guts and all. A high protein diet (in cats) has been shown to result in stool that indicates there are low counts of lactobacilli and bifidobacterium in their systems. Again, the holistic vet basically insisted that we find a human acidophilus supplement with 10 billion live CFU (colony forming units) and start using it immediately (one capsule per day). This is the one we use (I just open the capsule and sprinkle it on the meal - they like it).
BTW - you might want to start your own thread about Angel in this forum. It would likely help put more eyes on it. :rub:
And vibes for you and Angel! ********************************************************
Barb, how is Toby?
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We love them all so much, it's so hard to see them sick like this. No matter how many fur kids we have.
Thank you Laurie, Wow! Lots of info for me to look at. I will visit the links and do some more reading, lots to consider and thankfully, more options than I had thought. I will start a thread on Angel, once I go through everything.
Yes, me too, Barb, how is Toby? And how are you doing?!
Yes, me too, Barb, how is Toby? And how are you doing?!
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #368
Thank you for asking! It seems like every time I start to reply I get some kind of interruption. This time I am going to ignore the world around me lol.
Toby is doing pretty well! We are very very happy right now and have our fingers crossed that he will stay this way for a while longer at least. His last rescue chemo was this past Friday and after that we took him to his regular vet just a few miles away and we did an xray there just because we felt like the info we got from our oncologist after his ultrasound was confusing. When we first brought Toby for treatment he had this huge mass of lymphatic tissue that showed up white on the xray and was pushing part of his colon to one side so that it looked like a bent hose, and altho his stool was not completely blocked, it was partially blocked. We wanted to be sure we were not in that situation again. The vet showed us the xray and said as far as she can tell, he looks fine, at least not that kind of blockage. Whew! We only wish we could get that kind of info out of the oncologist. I think we are coming from entirely different directions with the oncologist. She is treating his illness in an infrastructure way, fighting the disease, and we want to know other than rescue chemo, what is going on inside that we need to be immediately concerned about as far as his comfort is concerned. I think the problem is she can't tell us. But regardless she is medically skilled, and Toby's regular vet, Dr. Barbara Royal, is an absolute angel, and our meeting with her was great. She gave him aqua acupuncture while we were there too. My husband was very happy to talk to her too. It gave us both a sense of peace that we are doing the right thing for now.
So! We are having a happy holiday season because our boy is well for now, no throw-ups, and even the cat sitter who came in just for him, her sister came one day (I told them to go thru my clothes that I was getting rid of, my sisters live too far for sharing lol) and anyhow she wanted to know which one was the sick kitty.
So that makes us happy. I even scolded him one night- trying to do ANYTHING at my desk and he stands on the keyboard- and you know when you have a sick child you can't get mad at them. So there you go. We are wishing for more good days like those we are having and thanking all of you for the many good vibes and thoughts and wishes from you this entire past year. Without all your advice I am certain we would not be in this wonderful position that we are right now with him!
Toby is doing pretty well! We are very very happy right now and have our fingers crossed that he will stay this way for a while longer at least. His last rescue chemo was this past Friday and after that we took him to his regular vet just a few miles away and we did an xray there just because we felt like the info we got from our oncologist after his ultrasound was confusing. When we first brought Toby for treatment he had this huge mass of lymphatic tissue that showed up white on the xray and was pushing part of his colon to one side so that it looked like a bent hose, and altho his stool was not completely blocked, it was partially blocked. We wanted to be sure we were not in that situation again. The vet showed us the xray and said as far as she can tell, he looks fine, at least not that kind of blockage. Whew! We only wish we could get that kind of info out of the oncologist. I think we are coming from entirely different directions with the oncologist. She is treating his illness in an infrastructure way, fighting the disease, and we want to know other than rescue chemo, what is going on inside that we need to be immediately concerned about as far as his comfort is concerned. I think the problem is she can't tell us. But regardless she is medically skilled, and Toby's regular vet, Dr. Barbara Royal, is an absolute angel, and our meeting with her was great. She gave him aqua acupuncture while we were there too. My husband was very happy to talk to her too. It gave us both a sense of peace that we are doing the right thing for now.
So! We are having a happy holiday season because our boy is well for now, no throw-ups, and even the cat sitter who came in just for him, her sister came one day (I told them to go thru my clothes that I was getting rid of, my sisters live too far for sharing lol) and anyhow she wanted to know which one was the sick kitty.
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Oh Barb that so totally and completely MADE MY DAY! 
I am SO SO SO SO SO glad he's feeling so well!
Yes, absolutely - for MANY more wonderful, feel good days!
I am SO SO SO SO SO glad he's feeling so well! Yes, absolutely -
for MANY more wonderful, feel good days!- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #371
Yes I can't help thinking it is that Elspar that helped Lazlo, and now is helping Toby. He is grooming the other kitties more now, and the other day I saw him groom himself from top to bottom- that was before his recent (last Friday) treatment tho, so he may have to build up to that again lol. And last nite/this morning he ran Lulu off the bed and they had some romping, so I KNOW he is feeling better. Usually he needed his prednisolone to perk up in the morning and eat, run around. But now he is coming around and telling us all to wake up lol, and I haven't given it to him yet, the little bugger ha ha. I will try and catch him in action :-)
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Oh Barb, I hope so!!! :cross:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #373
Well we took Toby for his treatment today- he is 1/10 of a pound lighter, but otherwise is holding his own. Today was his third rescue chemo treatment, he was supposed to get only the Lomustine but since he still had Elspar in his vial, they gave it to him, i.e. the L-asparaginase. This visit the meds were orally administered which is when he usually gets drooly. He is doing ok, this past week leading up to his treatment it seemed like he ate a bit less and he stopped grooming himself again, but he wasn't lethargic or anything. And he came home and as usual is eating like a pig, I think it is from the benadryl.
On the BAD side
On the BAD side
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Barb I'm so sorry to hear this news. Jeez like you haven't been going through enough with Toby and now this? Sending you positive vibes.
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- #375
Thank you, this is very scary, John is being very good about it but I can tell he is stressed. We are not the ones who are sick, but it has taken a lot out of us, just figuring out what to do and how to make it happen. I am just thankful I can come to this forum to talk about it, my other friends would be sympathetic but I think they would not understand what we are going through with our love for our fur children.
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Barb these are your children!!!! There is every reason for you both to be stressed, frustrated and just want to cry and scream. We all understand that very well. I'm so sorry you have to go through this AGAIN.
Oh Barb... I'm just without words. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I try not to stress over every little thing with the cats, but we find ourselves rushing to the vet rather frequently...
Oh hun!
Mega massive this is benign and operable!!!!!!
Oh hun!
Mega massive
this is benign and operable!!!!!!
Oh my gosh, Barb, I'm just about in tears reading this. LDG pointed me to your thread because I have a cat that we are waiting to see what kind of cancer she has, and seeing that you may be going through it with a second cat is just unbelievable. Mega vibes that little Lulu does NOT have cancer!
YES... I will pray for your Lulu and hope it is benign too. :cross:Oh Barb... I'm just without words. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I try not to stress over every little thing with the cats, but we find ourselves rushing to the vet rather frequently...
Oh hun!
Mega massive
I have been away from TCS due to my moving and settling in but wanted to check up on Toby. I can't tell you how much I worry about my furkids too. Seems we are always going to and from the vet for something. Two of my six have been under the weather since the move most likely due to stress. But it is such a worry. It is tough when you have a "few" sick all at the same time. Mega, ginormous vibes for you, hun.
Toby :rub: Lulu :heart2:- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #380
Thank you for asking about Toby! I have not written as we have been a little upside down between Toby and Lulu both. They are the two patients and both are being very good patients at that lol. I wish they both were running around a bit more, but that may be too much to ask right now.
Toby is due for his next rescue chemo this coming Friday morning. He has it every three weeks. So far he seems to follow a pattern where he has the treatment, is flattened for a day or so, then seems to really perk up for about 8 days, then slow down a little bit, and then kind of go downhill in the last week, eating less, sleeping more, crouching more, until his treatment. Right now his fur looks bad and he has thrown up liquid in the past two mornings. On that basis I am going to give him pepsid at night too, normally I give him 1/2 in the morning only, with his 1/2 prednisolone.
I have a few dry cat foods that I got for the foster kitties and Toby really wants one of them all the time- it is the Blue Buffalo grain free in the wild version. I have to push him to eat any other wet food. We bring him salmon sushi, give him our flank steak, and I open a million cans of food for him as usual. He wants to eat with me standing their puffing up the food, moistening it, fussing over him. I am happy to do that for him, except sometimes I have to ask my husband to take over. There are times he just comes and sits below me while I am on the couch and he stares at me, sometimes crying and sometimes not. I think this is that hungry icky feeling from the prednisolone. He will guide me to the kitchen and I will open a ton of food for him and sometimes we strike gold and sometimes not. It is very stressful! For both of us!
So it seems to me that this is a sort of maintenance thing right now. I don't think it is making him better, but it may be keeping everything from getting worse. When we took him to his regular vet and talked to her about him, she said get a follow up ultrasound in the next month to see if/how things may have changed. If Lulu had not needed surgery I probably would have scheduled the ultrasound for this coming visit, but because we have been crazy busy I think I will schedule it for the visit after this one, which will be a month from this last Friday.
I don't think it will make any difference in his treatment but it may help us to better know what we are dealing with.
Toby is due for his next rescue chemo this coming Friday morning. He has it every three weeks. So far he seems to follow a pattern where he has the treatment, is flattened for a day or so, then seems to really perk up for about 8 days, then slow down a little bit, and then kind of go downhill in the last week, eating less, sleeping more, crouching more, until his treatment. Right now his fur looks bad and he has thrown up liquid in the past two mornings. On that basis I am going to give him pepsid at night too, normally I give him 1/2 in the morning only, with his 1/2 prednisolone.
I have a few dry cat foods that I got for the foster kitties and Toby really wants one of them all the time- it is the Blue Buffalo grain free in the wild version. I have to push him to eat any other wet food. We bring him salmon sushi, give him our flank steak, and I open a million cans of food for him as usual. He wants to eat with me standing their puffing up the food, moistening it, fussing over him. I am happy to do that for him, except sometimes I have to ask my husband to take over. There are times he just comes and sits below me while I am on the couch and he stares at me, sometimes crying and sometimes not. I think this is that hungry icky feeling from the prednisolone. He will guide me to the kitchen and I will open a ton of food for him and sometimes we strike gold and sometimes not. It is very stressful! For both of us!
So it seems to me that this is a sort of maintenance thing right now. I don't think it is making him better, but it may be keeping everything from getting worse. When we took him to his regular vet and talked to her about him, she said get a follow up ultrasound in the next month to see if/how things may have changed. If Lulu had not needed surgery I probably would have scheduled the ultrasound for this coming visit, but because we have been crazy busy I think I will schedule it for the visit after this one, which will be a month from this last Friday.
I don't think it will make any difference in his treatment but it may help us to better know what we are dealing with.
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