Toby vomiting and losing weight, fine otherwise

[barbb]

Well we got the ultrasound results and Toby's cancer has returned. We are authorizing them to give him Elspar and Lomustine which is another chemotherapy, one stops growth of cancer cells and the other may be effective where the other course of treatment was not. We are sick over this, we hoped he would not have to come back.

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

I am so sorry to hear this report. Hugs and prayers. I am thinking of you and Toby:nod:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Oh, Barb

, this is heartbreaking news

.  I am so sorry to read this.   So, are you taking him to the same place as before (maybe that's your only option).  Darn it! 

for the little guy, and

to you.

 

[finnlacey]

Barb, I'm so very, very sorry to hear this. I hope and pray this new medication works. 

 

[barbb]

Thank you everyone for your kind words of caring and support, this was the first place I wanted to turn to when I heard this, because everyone here has been so caring and I know that only another kitty parent can know what this feels like :-(. 

Yes we are at the same treatment place, because we needed to do the ultrasound to match the earlier one, otherwise the results cannot be compared, apparently. They said he has a rectangular mass, 1/2 inch by 2 inches, in his stomach. They said it did not make sense to remove it and that his lymphatic tissue probably already has cancer or it would not have been a mass. She said that even though his original biopsy of the lymphatic tissue was negative, that did not mean that other nodes in the lymphatic tissue were also negative.

This current chemotherapy is called Rescue Therapy which is what they commonly do after regular chemotherapy has failed. 

We decided to at least do this first treatment and then do research to see if it makes sense to keep going in this direction. What I am reading now is that rescue treatments aren't usually very effective. I will keep reading more. If anybody has ever gone this path, please let me know your experience. The rescue meds they are giving him are listed above- [color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]Elspar and Lomustine. His regular protocol already included doxorubicin, so he could not get that, plus it didn't seem to help significantly. [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]The oncologist said we could try radiation too, altho she is not a big fan of that. I said I was not either, mostly because radiation causes other side effects, and his would probably be full abdominal radiation. But we could look into that as well. [/color]

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]We are just really upset right now[/color]

 and i can't look at him without crying. I hate the thought of taking him back again and again, and I hate the thought of not doing anything except keeping him on his prednisolone. He so much hates the car ride to the vet and now he starts drooling even before we get there because he has so much anxiety and already anticipates the chemotherapy. But it has been keeping him alive. 

[color= rgb(24, 24, 24)]At the moment he is eating and active, probably because he got a lot of benedryl and other stuff with his chemotherapy. We are going to watch him in the next several days and see if he tolerates this and can hold his appetite. I will spend a lot of time with him. [/color]
 

 

[ldg]

Oh Barb! :rub: This is what Lazlo had - a mass in his tummy. They usually aren't operable, because they're fused with the stomach wall lining.

Oh hun, this is just so disappointing.

OK. I'm looking at Lazlo's treatment protocol. It started with Elspar. That was his first treatment. It's normally given (in this protocol) with VinBLAStine, but he'd received a steroid injection, so they broke up his first treatment into two, three days apart. After that, it was the combo treatment given at the start of each cycle. Lomustine, I don't know.

Oh hun.... :heart2:

 

[barbb]

Thank you Laurie for your kind words 

.She told me the Lomustine is an oral med that inhibits cancer cell growth. Here is a link to it, very interesting http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000612/

Toby seems to have normal energy and is ok, other than being hyper. They gave him benadryl with the chemo to make sure he did not have a reaction and I think that has some side effects.

His eating had started to pick up and we talked briefly about not taking him, but then we saw a few other throwups and decided not to take any chances. I am still in shock about this, we had hoped we would have more time after the treatments.

It is very good to know that your Lazlo had Elspar, maybe this will help our boy.   

 

Right now it is very hard to know what to do for him. We don't want to further depress his immune system with chemo to where the cancer can take over, but we don't want to give up either, not while he seems to be happy and doing mostly ok. He has never shown a lot of the symptoms that so many people describe, it was only in these past two weeks after his doxorubicin- and now he seems ok again. So we authorized the treatment today and decided to ask everyone on this board what their experience is and what to look out for, and to also do research on what he is being given. 

Any advice, please do let me know! 

. I am still numb about this and trying not to think about it because I will start crying again and fall apart. 

 

[feralvr]

OH BARB!!!!!!!! I am so, so deeply sorry to hear about this terrible news. You and Toby have been through so much these last months and I am very heartbroken for you over this news. :shame: I am going to keep you and Toby very close in thought and prayer. My heart goes out to you, hun. :heart3: :heart3:

 

[mewlittle]

So sad to hear praying for you and Toby i'm tearing up from reading this  

<I fell like doing that to Toby's cancer just exeding it out of him its sad that we have to put up with cancer its even sadder that kids and animals have to HUGS and sending good vibes 

 

[barbb]

Thank you so much for your kind words, it really means a lot, just knowing others who know what this is like. Each day I feel a little better because he seems ok but I am watching him like a hawk and hoping he is stable at least for now, and that maybe this last chemo will work on him. So far he is doing ok, eating, sleeping, a little less energy but he just had that chemo on Friday and it is a new one.

We are scheduled to go on a vacation on Thursday and I have made arrangements for someone who runs a petsitting business to come in specifically to fuss over Toby each day and to pet him and do the things I do to make him feel secure and eat better. While she does not serve our area, her elderly parents live across the street and are in poor health so she is here almost every day anyhow.

Plus we have a kitty sitter who is a vet tech and will be making two visits each day just to care for our large brood- but she really has three sets of kitties at our house, i.e. the two outdoor ferals, the three FIV+ kitties in the foster room who also require probiotic powder, l-lysine and allergy pills sprinkled on their food to help them; and then my regular four kits and she has to give Toby his meds too- that's a lot and I don't expect her to sit an pet Toby after all that. I have told her don't worry so much about immaculate litter boxes or washing dishes each day, I provide extras, but it is still a lot. So Toby will get some extra loving and also someone to kind of evaluate him each day.

We weren't sure what to do but the vet's office said DO THE TRIP and if he needs to be medically boarded at any point, so long as someone can take him, your bases are covered. So we decided to go, on that basis and because of the support network we will have in place. 

On the bad side one of our OTHER kitties has been losing weight- I thought at first that it is because she really loves the Stella and Chewy's freeze dried that we leave out, but now I am not so sure. So we will make an appointment for her before we leave in a few days - AUGH.

 

[mimi507]

mite just be a stomach upset - cats sometimes have them for days. My cat also stopped eating, and the vet said he probably just has a tooth ache or stomach ache, and because he's not eating, he loses weight

 

[mimi507]

hope little Toby is ok!!!! is he the cat in your profile pic? if he is, he's adorable!!!!!

 

[barbb]

Awe thank you, Yes it is him in my profile pic! He is doing good now, I have my cat sitter coming twice daily and another sitter coming in just for him once a day while I am out of town. He seems to be responding to the second kind of chemo, the elspar, I wish they had given that to start with. he is happy for now and that is what matters!

image.jpg

• barbb
• Dec 9, 2012

Here is a recent pic, I hope it's not too big

 

[barbb]

Oh also on the other kitty, Lulu, her blood work was fine but white cells were1800, she said that was 300 over normal. She thinks it might be a tooth infection as you suggested, so gave her clindamycin which my cat sitter is administering and I left her canned pumpkin and probiotics too since clindamycin caused diarrhea when I had to give it to my fiv fosters (they are in a separate foster room lol). thank you for replying on Lulu too!

 

[ldg]

YAY you're on vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like you've got a great set up, so I do hope you're relaxing and having fun!

I'm so glad Toby was feeling better before you left. :heart2:

And on Lulu, let's hope it's just an infection. You can deal with a dental when you get back.

Continued vibes for Toby - and Lulu too!

 

[lauriea]

IMG_1799.JPG

• lauriea
• Dec 19, 2012

Hi Toby's Mom!

I don't even know where to start, and even when I figure out where, I will in no way be able to express my feelings in print. 

OK, this is my Charlie.  I lost him on November 30, 2012 to oral squamous cell carcinoma.  I found this thread for another reason, which I will get to, but in reading your messages I literally felt, physically, what you are going through.  Charlie was diagnosed in January 2012 and I went through all the visits and reading and research and specialists, medications, etc. etc. etc.  What moved me the most was in reading your messages, I saw myself for the past 11 months.  I too was very much in tune with Charlie.   We had a bond that is difficult to explain.  He, to me, was more like a person in a cat suit, my child.  I have other cats, have always had cats since I was 8 years old (I'm 52 now), but have never, and I suspect will never, have a relationship like I had with him again.  I knew what he was thinking and he knew what I was thinking.  He knew how to tell me what he wanted, how he felt.  He was never the cat that "hid" like cats normally will do when they are not feeling well.  He, too, followed me, waited for me to feed him, hold him, bath him, make him warm.  I took every day as a new day, never really counted the good and the bad like we are told to do.  If he had a particularly bad day, I would somehow compensate, more meds, less feeding.  I looked for the good things, he stretched, he purred, he slept while I washed him, he ate good, he is sleeping good.  He was my job for 11 months, and I would have cared for him until the end of time if I had the chance.  I found that taking care of him didn't really take that much time, it was more that I was so afraid that I would miss a sign of pain or let his hunger or thirst go unfed.  At the same time, I was frantic (inside) to make him well, even though I knew from the start this would not happen.  I met with obstacles from the start with vets, even specialists, oncologists, who, every time I called them with a new challenge for direction would tell me it was time to let him go.  Charlie did not want to go.  I know this.  He had a life, one, and I made sure that he stayed as long as he could, comfortably.  Without going into a lot of detail, this disease that he had is a nasty, evil disease.  I had to let him go.  I was with him until the last minute of his life.  I have cried every day since.  I am in counseling and am reading some books on grief.  I am in the process of making a scrapbook of his wonderful life and what made him so special and unique.  And, I am making a book chronicling his illness to try and find some peace with it.  Your dedication to Toby is such a breath to me as now I know there are people who know what I went through.  I know how you feel about him.  You are a wonderful mother and friend to him and he knows that. 

The reason I found this site, is that my Angel, Charlie's sister, has been sick for about 18 months, with nothing more than weight loss, change in coat and intermittent vomiting.  What struck me is how you explained that Toby usually vomits after dry food, Angel too.  No diarrhea.  She has had just about every test imaginable and everything comes back OK, including ultrasound.  What is very disturbing to me, is that after she had a rabies shot, also "because it is the law before we treat them", she developed an unexplained illness.  They thought it was a pancreatitis at the time, this was a few years ago.  She just had the fPL test, which also came back negative.  She is still hungry, eats, but less than normal, pees OK.  She vomitted bright red blood for the first time ever last week.  This has prompted me to take her for a test to have her stomach biopsied for cancer.  I will let you know what happens.

 

[skymaster]

hi,...ok i had this problem with my 6 year old female,  took her to the vet,...was told to feed her only small amounts of food,  AND not  the meal in one go,...result  no vomiting !!   regards

 

[barbb]

hi,...ok i had this problem with my 6 year old female,  took her to the vet,...was told to feed her only small amounts of food,  AND not  the meal in one go,...result  no vomiting !!   regards

Hi Skymaster, I went through all of that with Toby, including diet changes. If there is a weight loss, continued vomiting, and especially a noticeable change in coat, that is something to be concerned about and not let go until you have a thorough diagnosis. In Toby's case it was large cell lymphoma which we discovered only after repeated trips to the vet, 5 in all. Sadly, lymphosarcoma is very difficult to diagnose in cats because things like a blood test or standard exam or even an xray do not always show anything. 

 

[barbb]

Hi Toby's Mom!

I don't even know where to start, and even when I figure out where, I will in no way be able to express my feelings in print. 

OK, this is my Charlie.  I lost him on November 30, 2012 to oral squamous cell carcinoma.  I found this thread for another reason, which I will get to, but in reading your messages I literally felt, physically, what you are going through.  Charlie was diagnosed in January 2012 and I went through all the visits and reading and research and specialists, medications, etc. etc. etc.  What moved me the most was in reading your messages, I saw myself for the past 11 months.  I too was very much in tune with Charlie.   We had a bond that is difficult to explain.  He, to me, was more like a person in a cat suit, my child.  I have other cats, have always had cats since I was 8 years old (I'm 52 now), but have never, and I suspect will never, have a relationship like I had with him again.  I knew what he was thinking and he knew what I was thinking.  He knew how to tell me what he wanted, how he felt.  He was never the cat that "hid" like cats normally will do when they are not feeling well.  He, too, followed me, waited for me to feed him, hold him, bath him, make him warm.  I took every day as a new day, never really counted the good and the bad like we are told to do.  If he had a particularly bad day, I would somehow compensate, more meds, less feeding.  I looked for the good things, he stretched, he purred, he slept while I washed him, he ate good, he is sleeping good.  He was my job for 11 months, and I would have cared for him until the end of time if I had the chance.  I found that taking care of him didn't really take that much time, it was more that I was so afraid that I would miss a sign of pain or let his hunger or thirst go unfed.  At the same time, I was frantic (inside) to make him well, even though I knew from the start this would not happen.  I met with obstacles from the start with vets, even specialists, oncologists, who, every time I called them with a new challenge for direction would tell me it was time to let him go.  Charlie did not want to go.  I know this.  He had a life, one, and I made sure that he stayed as long as he could, comfortably.  Without going into a lot of detail, this disease that he had is a nasty, evil disease.  I had to let him go.  I was with him until the last minute of his life.  I have cried every day since.  I am in counseling and am reading some books on grief.  I am in the process of making a scrapbook of his wonderful life and what made him so special and unique.  And, I am making a book chronicling his illness to try and find some peace with it.  Your dedication to Toby is such a breath to me as now I know there are people who know what I went through.  I know how you feel about him.  You are a wonderful mother and friend to him and he knows that. 

The reason I found this site, is that my Angel, Charlie's sister, has been sick for about 18 months, with nothing more than weight loss, change in coat and intermittent vomiting.  What struck me is how you explained that Toby usually vomits after dry food, Angel too.  No diarrhea.  She has had just about every test imaginable and everything comes back OK, including ultrasound.  What is very disturbing to me, is that after she had a rabies shot, also "because it is the law before we treat them", she developed an unexplained illness.  They thought it was a pancreatitis at the time, this was a few years ago.  She just had the fPL test, which also came back negative.  She is still hungry, eats, but less than normal, pees OK.  She vomitted bright red blood for the first time ever last week.  This has prompted me to take her for a test to have her stomach biopsied for cancer.  I will let you know what happens.

Awww Laurie A, I am so sorry to hear about your boy Charlie. I know when it happens to me, I will be in the same state of mind as you are. I feel like he is a person. You exactly described my relationship with Toby and yes we have 3 other kitties and nobody is or ever was like him. I have not been able to imagine what it will be like without him, only that sometimes when I think about it now, it makes me cry. Yes Toby comes to me whenever he needs anything and he tells me what he needs and when he wants to be cuddled and babied, or when he needs help. He knows he is ill and he feels safe from his illness when he is with me. There are other people on this site who are as attached to their kitties, LDG's Lazlo is in remission right now from the same illness as Toby, and blueyedgirl5946 feels this way too for her Muffin who had surgery for his cancer earlier this year and is also in remission. 

I think your boy Charlie is so lucky to have had you as his mom, and for you to have had him as your fur boy. He will be there waiting for you at the rainbow bridge. I can't ever read this poem without crying, I do so believe it is true. http://www.rainbowbridge.com/Poem.htm

Re: Angel- Usually bright ("fresh") red blood is from bleeding close to whichever orifice it is coming from, in this case vomit, is more of an esophageal/GI Bleed. If it were from deep inside it would be darker blood. Here is a thread from LDG when Lazlo vomited red blood http://www.thecatsite.com/t/248574/...es-again-dont-know-if-hes-out-of-remission-or . One of my kitties vomited bright red blood after eating a bunch of oat grass. Since then I have learned that the various herbs and grass that cats eat is, generally speaking, not good for them at all, not even what they sell in the store specifically for cats. 

Still, it is troubling that she is still vomiting and losing weight and that her fur is bad and I agree, it is worth investigating. Everyone here whose cat has had lymphosarcoma of some sort will tell you that it is extremely hard to diagnose. I even thought he was ok at one point due to his tests being ok and a vet recommending pepsid and more senior-type food, I think I this was from an earlier thread about him. With Toby's symptoms, once the xray showed a large white spot, they were concerned that he had inflammatory bowel disease which is sort of tied to small cell lymphosarcoma in that the cells can "morph" and sometimes IBD is treated the same as small cell intestinal lymphoma with Leukeron, a form of oral chemo. I was told IBD doesn't always present with diarrhea.Toby had zero diarrhea and he still doesn't. 

I encourage you to keep going with the tests. I am not sure tho that the bright red blood will be an indicator of what is really wrong, other than the ongoing throwing up is causing her GI tract to bleed. :-( :-( :-( :-( For Toby even after we found the large white blockage, we still had to do surgery to find out if it was cancer, and even then I have learned that it is a slippery slope with cats. His pathology report stopped short of a diagnosis and we had to ask for one. To this day I am not satisfied and if I had to do it over, I would request a meeting with the pathologist, the surgeon, the oncologist, and his vet, all together!

 

[finnlacey]

That's true Barb, IBD does not have to include diarrhea! The vomiting blood really is troublesome for this kitty but I'm wondering if maybe her esophagus isn't scarring from the vomiting she's been doing. That can happen.