This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

[carolina]

03/04/12 -

Day 68 Dinner ​

Excellent meal for everyone tonight!! In the menu, pork trims, in the new QTY - 1.6oz for Hope, and 1.8oz for Bugsy - the nice thing about this, its that enough is left for Lucky :nod::nod::nod:
Hope ate very fast, and of course was waiting for more Bugsy did fine..... He took a while to eat as his pieces were quite large.... He did a fair amount of chewing.... I just love watching them chew - it is the cutest thing ever :love:

Lucky Was served Little pieces of pork covered with WL chicken for her raw - I served that first, then gave her kibbles.... While she didn't eat the pieces, she did lick the WL completely clean - had that been ground, she would have gotten some good licks out of it :nod: She ate well, took a break to drink some water, ad came back after I did the dishes - she always need a little break before finishing up her meal.
Later in the menu we have Turkey thighs - should be an easy breezy meal.

Tomorrow is duck hearts, I will make sure to serve 1/2 chicken and 1/2 hearts, so I have no problems with Bugsy having diarrhea..... He is also getting 2x his probiotics right now just during these introductions for good measure. Once we are through with them, in a couple of weeks, I will reduce it to his regular dose :nod:

No poop as of yet - hopefully he is not getting constipated - the boy is all dis-regulated :lol3:

 

[carolina]

Day 68 Late night Dinner - ​

Really quick update as I am one sleepy momma tonight!

Not sure what was wrong, but no one was really enthusiastic about dinner tonight..... I think perhaps because I was late with their earlier dinner, they might not been hungry :dk:

Usually they love Turkey, and tonight they just didn't want to eat it - Hope only ended up eating 1oz. Nothing I did helped - so that's all she had.
Bugsy ate everything, but from 1/2 way on, he needed WL sprinkled on it.

Lucky left some kibbles behind also.... more than usual....

I am hoping all it was was not being hungry enough.... as tomorrow this same meat in in the menu again for late night dinner :cross: they will eat it as usual :cross:

Good night peeps!

Alright..... Not happy with their schedule :lol3: I changed so they wouldn't get Turkey 2 days in a row. I also put the meats they might like the least at dinner which is when they are hungriest. I notices that if they eat something they LOVE too much, such as pork at dinner, they might get disappointed if they don't get the same or better at late night dinner So I am saving the best for last....
Here is what it looks like now:



Hope it works out - Tomorrow I am doing 1/2 heart and 1/2 chicken in order to prevent accidents in the poop-o-meter.
Don't know who pooped and who didn't..... but all the poops were perfect so far...... Not sure if Bugsy has gone potty yet :dk: Will post when I have a visual feedback :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

Would you look at that schedule!!! That is just awesome, Carolina and so well planned out AND makes it look so easy :lol3:.

YAY for good poops. I do have to say - and even though the four P's are not 100% raw - all of the poops are so much smaller, less of them, and no stink One of the perks of raw feeding :winkblue:

For a good raw eating day for the babies. Come on, Lucky, still waiting patiently ..... :rub: :heart3:

 

[carolina]

03/05/12 -

Breakfast​

Bugsy and Hope had Rad Cat Lamb for Breakfast, on the new Qtys - Set the plate down, sprinkled with WL and went to feed Lucky...... But the time I came back, the plates were polished clean and both of them were laying by theirs sides, proud looks on their faces :lol3:

Hope was a bit hungry still, trying to polish Bugsy's plate even more.... I didn't let her There is a reason why you are eating that qty little one

Lucky also had RC lamb for raw - huge gamble, as the first time she had this she pretty badly..... But now I want her to get used to everything..... so lamb it was. I served the raw first, then kibbles. She ate 1/2 of the dollop
Then the kibbles, and then she licked a bit more of the dollop

So far no yet She is keeping it down like a champ!!

I am a bit concerned about a faulty poop-o-meter - Bugsy hasn't pooped (that I know of) since that diarrhea event.... I am not sure if he is constipated..... Now that I reduced their intake, I haven't reduced their calcium yet.... They might be constipated..... It is hard to balance the meals in advance also, as I am not quite sure if they will eat everything..... like yesterday when Hope ate 1/2 of her meal. I am thinking about getting some eggshell powder and doing what Laurie is doing - balancing every meal - that might be a safer bet. Might do that today :nod:

Aside from that, all good.....
Crossing all fingers and toes for the later meal tonight - duck hearts - hopefully they will take it in stride, since it will be mixed with chicken..... Also have to buy sardines..... I keep forgetting about that.

 

[ldg]

Lucky ate HALF the dollop! Little by little! AND she's keeping it down!!!! :cross:

Yeah - I like the eggshell. :nod: I like that it's the most "bone like" option (without the marrow though) and no toxic stuff to worry about like with bone meal. And it takes SUCH a small amount if you balance it per meal. Because meat is so wet or sticky (or both), and the amount so small and the powder so dry, it sticks right on there. :nod: Very easy to do, then you don't have to worry about when they will or won't eat, or when.

for the poop-o-meter!!!!!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Yes...very exciting that Lucky ate 1/2 a dollop

.  She's getting there.  

Naturally, I've got a question.  Is the ONLY reason for the added calcium (in whatever form) for their poopies?  Don't they need it for bone density of anything like us humans.  So, in other words, if you have a cat with chronic constipation anyway, could you just skip the added calcium if you were feeding boneless FP?  (I wouldn't think so, but am just asking the question...would think maybe you might need to feed less of it though)

 

[carolina]

Yes...very exciting that Lucky ate 1/2 a dollop :high5: .  She's getting there.  

Naturally, I've got a question.  Is the ONLY reason for the added calcium (in whatever form) for their poopies?  Don't they need it for bone density of anything like us humans.  So, in other words, if you have a cat with chronic constipation anyway, could you just skip the added calcium if you were feeding boneless FP?  (I wouldn't think so, but am just asking the question...would think maybe you might need to feed less of it though)

No, you need calcium to balance the phosphorous content on the meat, as well as for their teeth, bone health, heart, etc.... That imbalance can lead to different health problems - the poop is just an easy way to measure a good balance.... as too much calcium will lead to constipation, making it somewhat easy to judge when you have gone too far. It is said though, that it is better to err to the higher side than to the lower side.... You don't want to be too low on Calcium - constipation is not as bad as the other complications that might derive if you don't have Calcium in the diet.
The ballpark is 1,000mg of Calcium per pound of non-supplemented meat - that is for Element calcium.

 

[carolina]

03/05/12

Day 69 Dinner​

We had a VERY successful heart meal tonight
:cross: There will be no side effects from it, especially for Bugsy! :cross: Well..... He can use a bit of loosening up, actually I haven't seen him pooping since that diarrhea...... He is really either 8 or 80, as we say in Brazil :lol3: No middle term :nod:

Dinner Tonight for Bugsy and Hope was 1/2 Duck hearts and 1/2 chicken - menu says Duck hearts, but after the disaster with the turkey hearts, I decided to do 1/2 and 1/2 :nod:
I also decided to use the technique of leaving the best for last - So I served the hearts first, by itself - without the chicken. Bugsy dove right into it Hope didn't want to start... But once I fed her on piece and she tasted... She loved it! They ate the whole thing in one sitting. Only when they were done with the last piece I served the Chicken - no need to say, that went fast - they just LOVE chicken! :high5:

Lucky had for raw tiny pieces of chicken and a bit of tiny pieces of heart - while she didn't eat, she licked all the pieces clean (from WL), and kept going back and forth between the kibbles to lick them again - she is definitely getting friendlier towards raw...... I am sure there will be the day she will eat it :bigthumb:
I am also serving the raw first, without the kibbles, and sprinkling WL at least once over so she licks the raw over and over again..... I am making her work for those kibbles :nod:

She had a great meal......
Now we watch - so far all the kids are keeping the food down :bigthumb:

Ah, today the Da Bird also came out for a pretty intense play - I put the little mouse attachment that drives Bugsy up the walls - I made him run for about 20 minutes.... Stopped when I thought it was too much already - he got a good exercise session Lucky played too..... Hope watched - she usually plays, but not today - I will make it a habit to play with them 2x a day to see if it helps Bugsy on his weight loss..... He does need to move more..... And he goes INSANE with that toy - runs a jumps all over the place!

 

[feralvr]

No, you need calcium to balance the phosphorous content on the meat, as well as for their teeth, bone health, heart, etc.... That imbalance can lead to different health problems - the poop is just an easy way to measure a good balance.... as too much calcium will lead to constipation, making it somewhat easy to judge when you have gone too far. It is said though, that it is better to err to the higher side than to the lower side.... You don't want to be too low on Calcium - constipation is not as bad as the other complications that might derive if you don't have Calcium in the diet.
The ballpark is 1,000mg of Calcium per pound of non-supplemented meat - that is for Element calcium.

Thank you, Sally, for asking this question . AND thank you for Carolina in answering it. As I was wondering the same thing :lol3: :bigthumb: I have to realize that there is never a "dumb" question!!!!! :happy3:

 

[feralvr]

OMG - LUCKY ate 1/2 dollop of raw OH BOY - I have a feeling that she is on her way back from the dark side :cross:. I also think it is a great idea to make her work a little for the kibbles. Offering the raw first :nod: HMMMMMM that is a great idea - something else I could try as well. I just love all of these little tricks of the trade we all have going on in our threads :bigthumb: We have to get pretty creative at times :lol3:

You had a WONDERFUL day today in your raw camp I am SO happy about that .

Poop-o-meter report from Bugsy - :cross: Waiting..... waiting...... for that poop report.......

p.s. Play sessions are a great way to get the fatties in shape - IF they play. I have a play session each and every night - the rincess: Perla demands it. :happy2: My fatty, Walden, is a spectator he loves to watch and rarely participates....... BUT I found out he loves the NEKO flyer toys. The furry mouse. I can get him running for a minute and that is about it for him. :lol3:

 

[carolina]

03/05/12 -

Late Night Dinner​

Easy meal here at this raw household
Hope and Bugsy had Chicken for late dinner - they just love chicken - always a successful meal - no way to go wrong with it :nod: Dinner was gone in a flash - blink of an eye :lol3:

Lucky also had a great meal- For raw, I cut the chicken in tiny tiny pieces, and coated well with WL. Offered to her before offering kibbles.... She licked the clean, and I am pretty certain she did eat a few pieces, as there was some chewing involved
I coated a second time, and when she would no longer eat, I served her the kibbles. She ate well, and kept going for the raw several times during her meal :nod: Took a break for water, when I took the opportunity to reload the WL - think she ate a couple more pieces
She did leave some kibbles behind, but not much.....

I weighed them before their meals - here is what they look like today:
Lucky - this is after one week of kibbles
Hope and Bugsy - after one Week of Frankerprey, at Regular QTYs (I only reduced their intakes yesterday)


Bugsy -
01/17/2012 -
20lb 8oz -
01/22/2012 - Maintained from past week
20lbs 8oz
01/30/2012 - lost 3.5 oz from past week
20 4.5oz
02/05/12 - lost 1/2 oz from last week
20lbs 4oz
02/13/12 - Gained 1.5oz from past week
20lbs 5.5oz
02/28/12- Gained 1oz from past 2 weeks
20lbs 6.5oz
03/05/12 - Gained 2oz from last week (First wk of Frankerprey Regular QTY)
20lbs 8.5oz

Lucky -
01/17/2012 -
12lb 1.5oz
01/22/2012 - Maintained from past week
12lbs 1.5oz
01/30/2012 - Lost 3.5 oz from past week
11lbs 14oz
02/05/12 - Gained 2.5 oz from last Week (first week eating raw)
12lbs 0.5oz
02/13/12 - lost 1.5oz from past week
11lbs 15oz
02/28/12 - Gained 3 oz from past 2 weeks (one wk raw, 1 wk sick, eating WL chicken)
12lbs 2.5oz
03/05/12 - lost 2 oz from last week (First wk Back on Kibbles)
12lbs 0.5oz

Hope -
01/17/2012 -
12lb 14.5oz
01/22/2012 - Gained - Piglet ALERT! :ref:
13lbs 0.5oz
01/30/2012 - lost 6.5 oz from Past week
12lbs 10oz
02/05/12- maintained from last week
12lbs 10oz
02/13/12 - Gained 6oz :shocker:
13lbs 0oz
02/28/12 - Gained 3.5oz from past 2 weeks
13lbs 3.5oz
03/05/12 - maintained from last week (First wk of Frankerprey Regular QTY)
13lbs 3.5oz

Strangely enough, the only one who lost, was Lucky, who went back on kibbles Apparently WL chicken is plenty caloric :shocker:

Now let's see how Bugsy and Hope do on these new reduced qtys - hopefully they will both start losing weight. The goal is 1-2% of their weight a week, so For Hope 2.5oz - 5.19oz; for Bugsy 3.28oz - 6.57oz. Anywhere in between those figures, and momma is happy :bigthumb:

 

[feralvr]

Sounds like the rincess: IS slowly opening up to thinking raw again

Waiting for that poop report olice Car: :lol3: :cross:.....

For a great raw day and that LUCKY tries a little harder :rub: :lol3: :bigwink:

 

[carolina]

03/06/12 -

Day 70 Breakfast​

Ladies and Gentleman, today shall be called Good news day!!!

Let's start with the best news of the bunch - Lucky!
Lucky's raw today was Rad cat turkey..... and by the sound of it.... you guessed it right - she ATE THE ENTIRE DOLLOP And she didn't even think twice about it!! Lick lick lick, done!! :high5:
As I have been doing it, I gave to her the raw first, and only when she was done, I gave her the kibbles. Tomorrow I am going to give her 2 dollops :nod:

Is she coming back to raw soon? Ahhhhh........ My girl is coming back to her senses!!
Later today is chopped pieces of Turkey and then chopped pieces of pork.... Let's see if she eats some :cross: I hope so!!!

Second good news of the day:

Poop-o-meter Report ​

Bugsy gave me a report around 3am - naturally, I jumped out of bed to inspect! It was nearly perfect - it gave me exactly what I need to do :lol3:
It seems that for the muscle/all meat days I need to take a tiny bit of calcium from his diet, and the days that he is served heart or organs I need to give him a bit more of calcium..... There were some pieces that were very hard, I am assuming from the days he ate all meat/muscle, and from yesterday, when he ate heart, the fresh pieces, were softer - calling for more calcium. (Sorry for the TMI, everyone! :lol3 Since he is eating less, I will adjust accordingly on the meat days - minus 1/32 TSP, and leave the amount for 2oz on the organ/heart days. Will do the same for Hope - minus 2/32 TSP on the meat says, and leave the amount for 2 oz (1/4TSP) on the organs/heart days) - that should get them perfect poopies

I noticed pretty much the same pattern for Hope - she needs adjusting as well :nod:

Also, I was doing some reading last night, and I am seriously considering supplementing their diets with Taurine.... I know that in theory Frankerprey doesn't need to be supplemented..... But there are some controversies on the matter..... Some vets advise to do so, and Taurine being water soluble there is pretty much no risk of overdosing. It is better to overfeed than to risk a deficiency. There is no taste to it, so I can just add it to their wet meal in the am to be on the safe side. I know that is being extra extra cautious..... But I guess that's who I am.... I rather be extra extra safe than risk heart and eye sight problems..... if there is a risk of it at all, for as slight as that risk might be.....
So I think I might be getting some soon from Amazon - NOW brands :nod:

Oh, I am forgetting -

Hope and Bugsy had Turkey for Breakfast - While Bugsy ate right up with only one sprinkle of WL, Hope wanted nothing to do with it..... It took several sprinkles and some major finger feeding for her to finish her meal..... She did finish, but it took a LOT of enticing..... She likes the meat for sure.... There are only some meats she will eat without a problem..... Can we say Rad Cat Lamb? :lol3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Good news day indeed! 

And I think you can't go wrong by adding the Taurine.  I also can't believe how you have figured out to increase/decrease their calcium based on which meal you're feeding and which poops were from which meals

.  What I brain you've got there in that head of yours

(thanks for the earlier info on calcium BTW)

Oh yes, when you say you fed turkey this morning, was it FP, or what, that Hope wasn't too fond of it?  Just curious.

 

[carolina]

Good news day indeed! 

And I think you can't go wrong by adding the Taurine.  I also can't believe how you have figured out to increase/decrease their calcium based on which meal you're feeding and which poops were from which meals:lol3: .  What I brain you've got there in that head of yours (thanks for the earlier info on calcium BTW)

Oh yes, when you say you fed turkey this morning, was it FP, or what, that Hope wasn't too fond of it?  Just curious.

Hi Sally
Yes.... I am checking the qtys on the taurine.... will do it, definitely :nod: And yep, the poop-o-meter gave me a pretty clear report easy read indeed
Every morning I feed them a ground meal, so I can mix their probiotics, enzymes and supplement their calcium for the day :nod: So this morning they had Rad Cat Turkey. They usually love it, but Hope is really loving the chunks of meat, and getting really peculiar on what she eats as far as ground (not much :lol3. Bugsy on the other hand, will just eat anything you put in front of him :nod:

 

[ldg]

GO LUCKY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's working Carolina, your persistence and patience is paying off!

I don't know what I'm going to do about the calcium... Not a lot of poop happening over here the last two days.

 

[feralvr]

OMG LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally - OH BOY Carolina - this IS a good news day for sure :bigthumb: I do think your patience has paid off and you are now getting your happy reward :happy3: :smile2: I think Lucky IS on her way back to her senses :lol3:

AND more good news today on the Bugsy poops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO - you are such a light sleeper that you "hear" the the litter box action :lol3: You just sleep with your ears open wide - hoping for the poop-o-meter to ding GREAT DAY FOR YOU TODAY

 

[ldg]

SO - you are such a light sleeper that you "hear" the the litter box action :lol3: You just sleep with your ears open wide - hoping for the poop-o-meter to ding

 

[carolina]

GO LUCKY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's working Carolina, your persistence and patience is paying off!
I don't know what I'm going to do about the calcium... Not a lot of poop happening over here the last two days.

OMG LUCKY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally - OH BOY Carolina - this IS a good news day for sure :bigthumb: I do think your patience has paid off and you are now getting your happy reward :happy3: :smile2: I think Lucky IS on her way back to her senses :lol3:
AND more good news today on the Bugsy poops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO - you are such a light sleeper that you "hear" the the litter box action :lol3: You just sleep with your ears open wide - hoping for the poop-o-meter to ding GREAT DAY FOR YOU TODAY

I know - Lucky is getting there, right? One way or another...... at speed, but nonetheless getting there! :bigthumb:
And about the poop-o-meter..... I just couldn't sleep last night.... I have big time insomnia..... and recently it has been worst..... I heard him getting in once.... false alarm - it was pee Back to bed I went...... Then finally I hear scratch scratch scratch - RUN off the bed, and there he is! on position!
It's funny, because I know the sounds of each of them going to the litter box..... So it is easier to recognize when I want to "catch" one of them in the act :lol3: Problem is, Bugsy has a tendency of going in the middle of the night :doh3:
Lucky is easy - she never covers her poop - she is just plain rude - the rincess: is just too good to dirty her paws with litter I guess
Hope...... She stays there F-O-R-E-V-E-R covering every millimeter of it.... tossing litter everywhere..... she covers, ant turns, andcoverssome more, and turns, and covers again :lol3: They all have their own poop-o-routine :lol3:

 

[carolina]

03/06/12 -

Day 70 Dinner​

Posting Dinner in an attempt to stay awake for late night dinner..... Momma is SO tired tonight

Dinner was ok here..... Not fabulous, but ok..... Bugsy and Hope had Fresh Turkey legs...... Bugsy started right up, and only stopped when he was finished..... He was not quite satisfied with the quantity actually - he was hungry and looking for more food.... He tried to get to Hope's foo, to Lucky's food.... Made me so sad I know I HAD to decrease his intake..... He was getting weight, so there was no other way around..... he had to eat less..... But still, I hate to see him hungry.... I hope he gets used to it soon :slant:
Hope needed a little help to start - just getting her and putting her next to her plate did it. But then she didn't want to finish her last piece, and for that I had to sprinkle WL on it - she then finished it up.

Lucky tonight had tiny pieces of cut turkey for her raw - it worked well :nod: I am not sure how much she ate out of it, but she did eat some for sure :nod:

Now late night dinner is pork for everyone - that meal I know I don't need to worry about it :nod:

I also need to defrost some quail for tomorrow - I completely forgot it :doh3: