This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

[space1101]

Thanks Carolina!  It makes me a bit nervous to give home made raw 

.     I feed mainly chicken, turkey, beef and lamb.   Is there anyway we could tell if the calcium we add is just right?   Does too little calcium give soft poops?

 

[carolina]

Thanks Carolina!  It makes me a bit nervous to give home made raw :lol3: .     I feed mainly chicken, turkey, beef and lamb.   Is there anyway we could tell if the calcium we add is just right?   Does too little calcium always give soft poops?

Too little calcium will give soft poop.... (this is easier to gauge then the color) as well as too much organs...... So if you have the right consistency, you are very likely spot on :nod:
How much Calcium are you adding to the diet? You want 1,000mg (1g) per pound of non-supplemented meat.... This is element Calcium, not calcium carbonate, etc. What are you using?

My supplement gives me that in 1Tsp. Since I feed them 4oz of non-supplemented meat a day, I add 1/4Tsp of supplement to their ground meal in the morning, and that balances the meat they eat in the rest of the day :nod:

 

[space1101]

For 300 g of meat, I add 750 mg calcium.  I use calcium lactate.   Since it is hard to mix calcium well in lots of meat, I do it for each meal.  

 I added 850mg for  dinner today  since I thought I probably added too little....

 

[carolina]

For 300 g of meat, I add 750 mg calcium.  I use calcium lactate.   Since it is hard to mix calcium well in lots of meat, I do it for each meal.  
 I added 850mg for  dinner today  since I thought I probably added too little....

If you are adding 750 of Calcium (Not lactate, as calcium lactate has only 13% of calcium) per 300g.... it is already a bit much..... that's over 1,100mg per pound..... 850 is way too much..... almost 1,300mg per pound.... Be careful..... You want to aim for 1,000 per pound.....

 

[carolina]

03/03/12 -

Day 67 Breakfast​

Easy Breezy meal for everyone.... Bugsy and Hope had Rad Cat Lamb, already supplemented with the calcium for the day..... One sprinkle to start, and another to finish..... They ate to the last drop - no problem whatsoever..... I can always count on this meat - they love it

Lucky had only kibbles, not a single lick of the raw, but ate well......

On a good note, no poop-o-meter visit from Bugsy yet - so maybe that was it....... maybe he doesn't have diarrhea, only that one soft stool..... We will see..... In any event, the schedule today would be one meal of chicken and one organ meal - I will just do 2 chickens instead - not risking there.
Depending how he does today, I will give them their organs tomorrow, if he is not well, only next week.... We will see.....

 

[feralvr]

Good plan - momma for Bugsy today. No taking chances with that darling boy :rub:

Oh rincess: Lucky..... we will just have to wait you out on this..... patience is a virtue .......... :lol3: :frusty:

 

[ldg]

Oh bummer! Did you order duck hearts? They might like them better. They're softer - very different than turkey (much smaller, too). :nod: If you ordered chicken, those might be similar to duck? :dk: I realized I have chicken hearts on the menu but never ordered any.

:cross: That was it for Bugsy - I hope it was just a lot of new things, and he's good to go now! :cross:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

for Bugsy's stool's to firm up right away.  Icky poo on diarrhea!

 

[carolina]

Oh bummer! Did you order duck hearts? They might like them better. They're softer - very different than turkey (much smaller, too). :nod: If you ordered chicken, those might be similar to duck? :dk: I realized I have chicken hearts on the menu but never ordered any.
:cross: That was it for Bugsy - I hope it was just a lot of new things, and he's good to go now! :cross:

I have Turkey, Duck and chicken - because of this diarrhea episode, I am afraid of all of them :slant: I didn't find the turkey heart had at all..... Just big, which is not an issue here- they are used to eating large pieces of meat..... there are still a few things to try - including the two hearts - duck and chicken and the organs..... I am worried now.....

for Bugsy's stool's to firm up right away.  Icky poo on diarrhea!:nausea: :slant: :frown2:

thanks

 

[ldg]

Maybe the just need to be introduced more slowly. :nod: Which is what you should probably consider with the liver and the kidney too. You'll see my thread for an update on how the kidney went. :lol3:

More for Bugsy!

 

[carolina]

Maybe the just need to be introduced more slowly. :nod: Which is what you should probably consider with the liver and the kidney too. You'll see my thread for an update on how the kidney went. :lol3:
More for Bugsy!

Yep- That's what I am going to be doing from now on - this was a good lesson for sure..... Can't forget Bugsy has IBD.... and I have to take things slower with him :nod:
The GREAT news, is that no poop today so far He has the same clean bottom he had last night :bigthumb:

3/03 -

Day 67 Dinner and Late Night Dinner​

Hope and Bugsy had Chicken again tonight - both meals... I just wanted to give Bugsy a break..... They love chicken anyways, so the meal was gone in seconds :nod:
I also decided to give Bugsy an extra proviable-DC sprinkled on his dinner tonight, he ate right up, didn't even notice it.... I think I am going to do this during this Frankerprey introduction just in case, as he is being introduced to many different meats, and needs some extra strength on his intestinal flora. :nod:
Next week I should be closer to the schedule.... somewhat.... I am not going to go full force - going to try 1/2 and 1/2 mixed with chicken or another meat - pork or turkey, depending what is in the menu, and see what happens.... Will do this with all hearts and organs.

Lucky had her kibbles, and licked the WL from the raw - raw today was tiny pieces of fresh chicken.

Rad Cat Turkey is defrosting right now - I am going to make ziplock bags of 2lbs of it, so it is easier at meal times.
I also decided to substitute the Rad Cat Chicken for the HT quail I have here... Will be preparing it tomorrow.

 

[carmina piranha]

Isn't Bugsy the cat who needs to eat organic, grass-fed chicken?  I wonder if these hearts are all that.  If not, maybe that's why he had the diarrhea?

I love the photo you posted of your ziploc bags all stacked up.  We're not using many ziplocs, but I'll be copying that idea for when we use some!  Also, I don't know if you plan to reuse bags.  The tip I learned is to clean the bags as much as you want/need to do for the next batch, and store them in your freezer until then.  Basically, I only wash it out if the food sat in there thawed for more than one day.

That's so sad that your kidney is so gross!  We've been buying chicken kidney that is nothing like that.  It's sold as "gizzards" but it's only kidney.  Hubs says there's no fat on it, and I know there's no odor.  My nose is really sensitive, too.  The chicken hearts we bought (which came LOADED with blood) were heaps more off-putting than the kidney we get.  So, I wonder if it's the fat that makes it smelly?  Or is our stuff deodorized in some way?  I wonder if you can shop around for local meat suppliers, or ethnic grocery stores, who can provide kidney that you don't mind touching.

 

[carolina]

Isn't Bugsy the cat who needs to eat organic, grass-fed chicken?  I wonder if these hearts are all that.  If not, maybe that's why he had the diarrhea?

I love the photo you posted of your ziploc bags all stacked up.  We're not using many ziplocs, but I'll be copying that idea for when we use some!  Also, I don't know if you plan to reuse bags.  The tip I learned is to clean the bags as much as you want/need to do for the next batch, and store them in your freezer until then.  Basically, I only wash it out if the food sat in there thawed for more than one day.

That's so sad that your kidney is so gross!  We've been buying chicken kidney that is nothing like that.  It's sold as "gizzards" but it's only kidney.  Hubs says there's no fat on it, and I know there's no odor.  My nose is really sensitive, too.  The chicken hearts we bought (which came LOADED with blood) were heaps more off-putting than the kidney we get.  So, I wonder if it's the fat that makes it smelly?  Or is our stuff deodorized in some way?  I wonder if you can shop around for local meat suppliers, or ethnic grocery stores, who can provide kidney that you don't mind touching.

The hearts were turkey, he doesn't have a problem with turkey..... However he had never had hearts before, and I think it was just too much/too rich for him. Are you sure what you are buying are kidneys? Because gizzards are a completely different thing - gizzards is actually a muscle meat, and not a secreting organ - here is what gizzards are:

The gizzard, also referred to as the ventriculus, gastric mill, and gigerium, is an organ found in the digestive tract of some animals, including birds, reptiles, earthworms and some fish. This specialized stomach constructed of thick, muscular walls is used for grinding up food; often rocks are instrumental in this process.
Birds swallow food and store it in their crop if necessary. Then the food passes into their glandular stomach, also called the proventriculus, which is also sometimes referred to as the true stomach. This is the secretory part of the stomach. Then the food passes into the ventriculus (also known as the muscular stomach or gizzard). The gizzard can grind the food with previously-swallowed stones and pass it back to the true stomach, and vice versa. Bird gizzards are lined with a tough layer made of the carbohydrate-protein complex koilin, to protect the muscles in the gizzard and to aid in digestion.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gizzard

I would make sure you are buying kidney - as otherwise you are just giving them muscles and no organs, really..... Yep, I will be feeding them gizzards too, starting this week...... I think that's exactly what you are getting - not that it is deodorized; it is just not kidney.....
What I bought is beef kidney.... for one is it much bigger, so I had to do much more trimming and cutting than I would have if I was treating chicken kidney..... I suppose I can try to find chicken kidney or another secreting organ..... but for now, I already have a bunch cut and clean, so we are set to go for a while :nod:
Yep, the ziplock stacking do work well! I think I will see about reusing them - washing them well with soap and water and maybe a quick spray with vinegar.... This diet is nowhere to being environmentally conscious, is it?

 

[carolina]

O-M-G I just put Bugsy on the scale ..... by my calculations, this week alone he GAINED another 3.5oz..... and the week is not even over yet.....
I just don't get it -
For each fatty meal he has, he is eating 2 very lean meals..... He is eating under 2% of his body weight - only 1.83%..... WHAT is going on!!!
I don't know if I reduce his intake, or if I go all lean..... But cats NEED fat in their diets..... and only lean meats is not really going to cut it...... My goodness! He is now 2oz HEAVIER then when he was eating kibbles :wife:
OMG I need to do something here.... this is not good!

 

[ritz]

I forget:  Is Bugsy more active,does he exercise more?  If so, then he could be gaining muscle weight.  It's kind of like when a human starts to exercise, you gain a little weight but your clothes fit better. Muscle weighs more than fat.

And, did you weigh him at the same time, i.e., right before/after a meal?

I'm the type of person who thinks if Ritz sneezes once she has a URI, so remember this when I ask you this question:  has his T-3/T-4 been checked recently?

 

[carolina]

I forget:  Is Bugsy more active,does he exercise more?  If so, then he could be gaining muscle weight.  It's kind of like when a human starts to exercise, you gain a little weight but your clothes fit better. Muscle weighs more than fat.
And, did you weigh him at the same time, i.e., right before/after a meal?
I'm the type of person who thinks if Ritz sneezes once she has a URI, so remember this when I ask you this question:  has his T-3/T-4 been checked recently?

Bugsy is a total couch potato...... I weighed him after a meal at night, could be it..... He is only four, going on five in may, and his vet never brought up the possibility of high low thyroid - he is just fat....
Granted - he is a male Ragdoll, so he is BIG, but he is FAT too..... He is not supposed to be 12lbs, but not supposed to be 20 either..... he should be around 17............... at the most 16......

 

[carolina]

03/04/12 -

Day 68 Breakfast​

Today marks 60 days since Bugsy and Hope have been eating 100% Raw arty4::cake: They have made amazing strides, and this experience have been great for all of us - I have no doubt a turning point, if not life-saving for Bugsy :heart3:

Good news and some changes today - Good news first: No Poop-o-meter report as of yet - Seems that Bugsy is all fixed up already.... Apparently that was just a one time occurrence in reaction to the heart..... I will just do 1/2 heart/organ 1/2 meat the next time and see what happens..... If all goes well, we move on to 100% next meal.
As far as changes goes, I decided to reduce both their intakes as of today - Hope and Bugsy's.... They are both porking up, and since they are eating more lean meals than fatty, I will not cut the fatty ones - they do need a fair amount of fat in their diets. Bugsy will now eat 1.8oz per meal instead of 2, and Hope will eat 1.6oz instead of 1.8. Hopefully that will do it.... I seriously don't know where to go from here..... Bugsy will be eating now 1.63% of his weight, and that is very little..... I will just not believe if he doesn't start losing weight.....

Breakfast today was Rad Cat Turkey . Bugsy ate the entire thing with the first sprinkle Hope on the other hand, didn't want to start..... It took a very generous sprinkle for her to get going..... But once she did, she did not stop until her plate was clean - she did a great job!

I started Lucky offering only the raw, covered with WL, and she took a few licks When she was done and would not take any more of it, I served her the kibbles.... She ate a good meal, but left some.
She threw up a huge, tightly packed hairball right before breakfast this morning.... it was quite big actually - the thing folded in two to fit in her tummy Not sure for how long she was brewing that one.... I suppose for a while..... Not a small one.....
Yep, the nightmare has officially began - I better do what Laurie is doing a bring the furminator out - especially for Lucky, who doesn't eat any wet Oh boy..... here we go!

 

[feralvr]

YEP - started furminating last week. The shedding has begun. So far no hairballs :cross:..... WOW I am really glad that Lucky got up that hairball - that must have been quite uncomfortable sitting in her tummy .

60 DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bugsy and Hope :rub: :rub: :heart2: You make your momma SOOOOOO proud

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Happy Anniversary to You, Happy Anniversary to You, Happy Anniversary Bugsy and Hope, Happy Anniversary to You!

Wow, I can hardly believe it's already been 60 days.  Congrats. 

 

[ldg]

TWO MONTHS! Congragulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigthumb:

Yep, I'm cutting Billy down to an ounce (1.7%). He'll usually wind up with a little more than that, because I don't always catch him before he grabs a bite of someone else's meal. If we lived in a larger space, these cats would definitely be eating in crates. :nod:

for all to go well with the other organs and the hearts when they come around again!