Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

[marc999]

for me? Maybe - I'll keep you posted.  Picture necessary? Hmm, likely not. 

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Boo left a Poo Present for me by morning.  

This is twice now that he's taking ~ 2.5 days to drop a bomb.  I suppose that's not bad.   

I passed on the pumpkin and RestoraLax (MiraLax), and instead used SEB.  The end result being the same 2.5 days. I'll keep up the SEB dosing and monitor improvements. I may just add some dry food back into his diet since the first 4 yrs. of his life were (pure speculation) likely filled with kibble city.   Besides, I have a bag of Orijen I need to get into. 

> Oneandahalfcats - I'll go easy on the protein/brand rotation.  Maybe slow it down to say...chicken for a week or two, then turkey or beef and so on.  Rather than chicken one day, Beef for a couple days, Duck the next.  No doubt, it may be a bit quick on his digestive system to manage.   As you said, it may not even be the proteins themselves but some unwanted ingredient....bah....humbug. I need a big freezer and a meat grinder! 

I'm almost seeing RAW as potentially easier, once you've done it a few times and know where to get reliable safe meats. That's for another day. 

Sounds like a good plan.

The Orijen is a good grain-free dry diet and so its not like you are feeding a bunch of empty calories like so many commercial brands containing wheat, corn as cheap sources of protein. Its your call if you decide to bring it back. I would just aim to keep things consistent in terms of what you feed each week rather than trying different foods and this in itself may help to normalize things.

 

[marc999]

I think you're right and here's the deal.  At some point, I'll more than likely need to get away for a weekend and so those times I plan on feeding him Orijen via an auto-feeder.

Do you think it's necessary to incorporate dry now, rather than a surprise all expenses paid trip to kibble town on some weekend? 

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
I think you're right and here's the deal.  At some point, I'll more than likely need to get away for a weekend and so those times I plan on feeding him Orijen. 

Do you think it's necessary to incorporated dry now, rather than a surprise all expenses paid trip to kibble town on some weekend? 

Sure. You could give a bit as a treat. Say 1/4 cup with what he is getting now.

 

[marc999]

Dang, a treat? 

1/4 cup of Orijen is 125 calories. That's easily a tad more than 1/2 his calorie intake for the day.  [I'm watching his girlish figure, future modelling and all in sight]

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Dang, a treat? 

1/4 cup of Orijen is 125 calories. That's easily a tad more than 1/2 his calorie intake for the day.  [I'm watching his girlish figure, future modelling and all in sight]

Right. .. I don't recall what your numbers are for the wet so sounds like you will have to do a little juggling. A quarter cup goes pretty fast with my group and this is down from what it was, so its almost like a treat

 

[marc999]

Option 1: go 1/2 and 1/2 

Option 2: go ~ 3/4 and 1/4

Option 3: go 99.99% wet and toss him a few kibbles at night, like feeding the pigeons. 

Option 4: do nothing

Option 5: trade cat for dog?!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Op #2 looks right if wet the majority, although #3 might be fun.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Just a bit of an update. Day 2 here on the Probiotics that I am incorporating with the Slippery Elm. 

Yesterday Max had a BM which was smaller than usual but normal. Day before, no BM, but he had been to the vet that day (Saturday) which might have contributed.

I have been splitting a capsule between Max, Maggie and Thomas as Max is still getting the Slippery Elm first thing. Just now, Max left quite a remarkable BM in the litter box. Good amount and the right size, but a bit smelly, like eggs. But very good indication that the priobiotics are being tolerated well. Will see what the rest of the week brings in terms of results. 

My husband asked to try some as well, and after a couple of days is reporting good results.

I may have to get another bottle just for the cats!

 

[marc999]

Lol, hands off my probiotics! [says the cats] 

Sounds good, although can you differentiate between slippery elm and the probiotics, in terms of poop quality/quantity results?   

I have a bottle of probiotics in the fridge that I haven't cracked yet. It's got 30 billion cfu; I'm reserving it's use for diarrhoea days.   Either Boo or me apparently. 

Boo's poop frequency has gone from 2.5 days to 1.5 days, so there's some slippery elm bark results for ya  They're nice and solid, not too hard, not too soft, jusssst....right.  

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Originally Posted by Marc999  

Sounds good, although can you differentiate between slippery elm and the probiotics, in terms of poop quality/quantity results?   

I have a bottle of probiotics in the fridge that I haven't cracked yet. It's got 30 billion cfu; I'm reserving it's use for diarrhoea days.   Either Boo or me apparently. 

Boo's poop frequency has gone from 2.5 days to 1.5 days, so there's some slippery elm bark results for ya  They're nice and solid, not too hard, not too soft, jusssst....right.  

It will be a bit of a trick for sure to see what's what between the SEB and Probiotic, although the BM from this morning was different from his previous clean-outs in that it looked fuller, healthier and 'glossy' (no kidding). It was a 'vera' nice. So we will continue with the probiotic.

Sounds like Boo's output was very nice too

. Very glad to hear that he is moving back in the right direction! I would heartily encourage you to try some of the probiotic and see what this can do for Boo.

 

[marc999]

Yeah, I should try it out - no good sitting in the fridge I suppose.  Since it's 30 billion - I guess I can just use 1/2 one day, 1/2 the next. 

 

[irinasak]

Just a bit of an update. Day 2 here on the Probiotics that I am incorporating with the Slippery Elm. 

Yesterday Max had a BM which was smaller than usual but normal. Day before, no BM, but he had been to the vet that day (Saturday) which might have contributed.

I have been splitting a capsule between Max, Maggie and Thomas as Max is still getting the Slippery Elm first thing. Just now, Max left quite a remarkable BM in the litter box. Good amount and the right size, but a bit smelly, like eggs. But very good indication that the priobiotics are being tolerated well. Will see what the rest of the week brings in terms of results. 

How are you giving SEB and probiotics? Are you giving them at different hours, are you mixing them? I am still afraid that the SEB interferes with nutrient absorbtion so I am giving them in different days. Basically I am wondering if SEB won't make the probiotics, or any other supplements, useless as it is coating the stomach and colon...

 

[marc999]

Irina has a valid point - that would be a shame to waste the probiotics if that's happening. 

 

[oneandahalfcats]

How are you giving SEB and probiotics? Are you giving them at different hours, are you mixing them? I am still afraid that the SEB interferes with nutrient absorbtion so I am giving them in different days. Basically I am wondering if SEB won't make the probiotics, or any other supplements, useless as it is coating the stomach and colon...

Well, based on Max's BM of this morning, I don't think there is too much to worry about as far as a conflict between the two supplements

I have not read anything about SEB interfering with the absorption of nutrients, medications yes, but not nutrients. I discussed the subject of doing both SEB and probiotics with my holistic vet just this past weekend, and she felt it was okay to do both, although at some point I may drop the SEB in favor of the probiotic. Will see how it goes. For reference, I am giving the SEB with the first feeding and the Probiotic on the second feeding. A 5 hour difference.

 

[irinasak]

Thank you for your reply, it is good to know as I would like to give Sophie probiotics everyday. I will search tomorrow for the article where I read about nutrient absorbtion and I'll share. Unfortunately, my vets have never heard of seb, so... Please update on how things are going.

 

[tdonline]

Since the vet visit last Wednesday, Dory has had two BMs and Josie, 3.  Not great, but for both, that's an improvement.  If we can tweak it so those numbers improve by 1/2X, I'd take it as a triumph.

They are on a regimen of mainly wet food mixed with water, 1/8 tsp Miralax, half a sachet of fortiflora and 1 tsp of pumpkin.  Pumpkin had been a semi-regular part of their diet and I stopped it because I was afraid the pumpkin wouldn't be a good idea if they were holding poop for awhile...I've added it back as a desperate hope.  I don't know if it's actually made the difference but as long as the trend is positive, I'll continue with the current methods.

The other thing I'm doing is much-debated on this site--every other day, they get a large dose of petroleum jelly.  This was by recommendation of the vet, who doses his geriatric cats to keep them regular.  I admit I have my reservations about PJ, but in desperate times, desperate measures...I figure the PJ is better than Dory only have one BM per week.  I try to make sure they get their dose well away from meal times.

I don't do this daily, but every now and then I syringe water into them.  They hate it, but I figure being well-hydrated is non-negotiable.  I recently set up a water fountain but they've ignored it.  I think they get just enough water from the food/additional water that they have zero interest in drinking from the fountain.  I was hoping the fountain would increase their water intake a little bit more.  But I think as long as they're not dying of thirst, the drive to drink just isn't there.

I have to say the advice I've seen often is to increase Miralax until they go.  As pointed out a few times in this thread, the Miralax will soften the waste but it doesn't necessarily result in more movement.  I know for my cats, their poop was runny from increasing amounts of Miralax and yet they held on.  The 1/8 tsp amount I'm using is a smaller dosage but it's just right to keep the cats' poop in the right firmness.  The search to increase the frequency of the movements continues...

 

[marc999]

Irina - I can vouch for the slippery elm bark working.  

My cat went from an average 2.5 day poop schedule, to 1.5.  Based on 2 feedings a day of wet food with 2.5 ml (1/2 tsp) of slippery elm bark syrup, injected into food  It's so darn slippery that a measuring 1/2 teaspoon won't hold it, so I have to use a syringe and take some from the supply I made in the fridge.  This supply is good for 5 days refrigerated.

I can give the dose up to 4 times per day according to a recipe.   

I'm contemplating making my own chicken or turkey broth as well, and sneak some into the broth, for the extra seb doses.   

Yet, as far as I'm concerned, 1.5 days pooping is nothing to be concerned about.  

 

[irinasak]

Irina - I can vouch for the slippery elm bark working.  

My cat went from an average 2.5 day poop schedule, to 1.5.  Based on 2 feedings a day of wet food with 2.5 ml (1/2 tsp) of slippery elm bark syrup, injected into food

I know it is working, SEB has been the greatest discovery for us! Sophie was constipated but not bad, she went every 36-48 hours. The BIG problem was fresh blood on her stool. After several vets, medicines and trying to indentify the culprit in her diet, it all settled with SEB. I was so desperate I was about to put her through colonoscopies (I don't even know if there is such a thing for cats) and ultrasounds. She had SEB every day twice a day, now she only has it on Tueasdays and Saturdays. The other days she has probiotics. I am just worried about long term effects of SEB. She is having it for about 4 months.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Since the vet visit last Wednesday, Dory has had two BMs and Josie, 3.  Not great, but for both, that's an improvement.  If we can tweak it so those numbers improve by 1/2X, I'd take it as a triumph.

They are on a regimen of mainly wet food mixed with water, 1/8 tsp Miralax, half a sachet of fortiflora and 1 tsp of pumpkin.  Pumpkin had been a semi-regular part of their diet and I stopped it because I was afraid the pumpkin wouldn't be a good idea if they were holding poop for awhile...I've added it back as a desperate hope.  I don't know if it's actually made the difference but as long as the trend is positive, I'll continue with the current methods.

The other thing I'm doing is much-debated on this site--every other day, they get a large dose of petroleum jelly.  This was by recommendation of the vet, who doses his geriatric cats to keep them regular.  I admit I have my reservations about PJ, but in desperate times, desperate measures...I figure the PJ is better than Dory only have one BM per week.  I try to make sure they get their dose well away from meal times.

I don't do this daily, but every now and then I syringe water into them.  They hate it, but I figure being well-hydrated is non-negotiable.  I recently set up a water fountain but they've ignored it.  I think they get just enough water from the food/additional water that they have zero interest in drinking from the fountain.  I was hoping the fountain would increase their water intake a little bit more.  But I think as long as they're not dying of thirst, the drive to drink just isn't there.

I have to say the advice I've seen often is to increase Miralax until they go.  As pointed out a few times in this thread, the Miralax will soften the waste but it doesn't necessarily result in more movement.  I know for my cats, their poop was runny from increasing amounts of Miralax and yet they held on.  The 1/8 tsp amount I'm using is a smaller dosage but it's just right to keep the cats' poop in the right firmness.  The search to increase the frequency of the movements continues...

Oh WOW! Two BMs for Dory.

This is REALLY GOOD PROGRESS I think! It wasn't too long ago that she held out for 6 days! Remember?

I hear you re. the PJ. Have you tried Laxatone? Its a hairball remedy that has petrolatum in it which I believe is a lot like PJ, only this product has some other 'good' ingredients in it. It might be a healthier alternative. Here is a link to the product : http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=19963 (check the natural flavour one which seems to be the best of the bunch in terms of ingredients)

I think you are wise to keep on with the present dosage of Miralax. It is a stool softener basically and nothing more.

All in all it sounds like things are improving. How are things going on the re-introduction front?