Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

tdonline

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Hmmm...yes, those other symptoms are concerning.  None of my cats are exhibiting those symptoms which is weird since they really should be going...I did notice Josie walked up to the box today, sniffed around a bit and walked away.

Does massaging their back area help stimulate movement?  Or am I pestering them needlessly?
 

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Hi tdonline : How is Dory doing?

Re. Cisapride, we did not experience any increase in frequency when Max was on this, in fact, we questioned whether it was working at all. Max was on it for 3 months. It is a very expensive (and overrated IMO) medication and comes with the risk of side effects such as seizures, severe allergic reactions and abdominal pain. For my peace of mind and pocket book, I would rather look to natural solutions such as the coconut oil and aloe vera (which I have actually heard good things about) that Raintyger mentioned. I have also just purchased some probiotics 'Natural Factors Acidophilus & Bifidus' today and am going to give this a try and see if it can make a difference with Max's digestion. In fact, I think everybody is going to get some. Will let you know what turns up with this.
Did you give the cisapride 15-30 minutes before meals? My vet did not tell me this at all! You would also have to administer aloe vera the same way. I did not try aloe vera and my kitty wouldn't eat coconut oil, but the feeling I got from others was that the aloe and coconut oil was preferable due to less side effects--if you could get way with it. But they tended not to work as well, so if you had to it was cisapride. You should run the aloe vera and coconut oil by your vet just to make sure.
 
I too have found out Miralax does not help with frequency. Today is the 17th and Peaches has only went 8 days out of the 17. I still haven't gotten any SEB but not sure she will eat the food with that in it. She is so picky and can tell when I add things to her food. I bought some probiotics but she won't eat her food when I add that. I can't add to much miralax because she knows that is in her food. I was just wondering what is considered  normal?  If she seems to be doing fine and eating is it alright for her to only go every 3 or 4 days? She went Monday and then again Wednesday and I hope she will go today.

My vet has recommended the Cisapride but I just can't afford it. I guess I will just keep doing what I'm doing. Hope everything works out for Max and Dory.
Every other day (8 out of 17 days) isn't too bad, that was about how often my kitty went. But why are you asking about every 3-4 days? My vet said that as long as the stool is soft and you don't get a lot of extra volume, going every 3rd day was OK. Every 4th day I don't know about though. There are toxins that start building up if they don't go often enough.

I hope everyone here has had the vet examine their kitty for causes of the constipation. Mine turned out to have IBD. An ultrasound showed diminished colon contractions/movement.
 

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I guess I should have also mentioned she can be going normal but get backed up and need to be cleaned out. This just started last summer. She was throwing up for a week just once a day but pooping normal so I thought. I took her to the vet and she was backed up and they had to clean her out. I am trying to save up some money to have the ultrasound done on Peaches so I can have some answers. Anyway Peaches doesn't have to go days without going because she can go normal and still have a lot in her. Hard to explain, I'm just frustrated right now.

The vet does believe Peaches might have IBD, this has been going on with her since she was kitten. She recently had a B12 injection, vet wants to try this and see if it works for her. She also has allergies to  a lot of foods so I'm not just dealing with constipation. It is hard to listen to her run around and cry like she is in pain though before going poop.

I still would like to know how Max does with the SEB.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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Did you give the cisapride 15-30 minutes before meals? My vet did not tell me this at all! You would also have to administer aloe vera the same way. I did not try aloe vera and my kitty wouldn't eat coconut oil, but the feeling I got from others was that the aloe and coconut oil was preferable due to less side effects--if you could get way with it. But they tended not to work as well, so if you had to it was cisapride. You should run the aloe vera and coconut oil by your vet just to make sure.

I hope everyone here has had the vet examine their kitty for causes of the constipation. Mine turned out to have IBD. An ultrasound showed diminished colon contractions/movement.
Of course we have had Max examined and also x-rayed. We followed the instructions for administering the cisapride, to the letter, but after three months no meaningful change. We switched vets and stopped the cisapride in lieu of giving Lactulose which worked from the first dose. The initial diagnosis of mega colon was made by the first vet based solely on the fact that Max was full of poop, which of course he was!?! Looking back (this was 3 years ago), I felt that this was not enough of a basis with which to conclude a diagnosis of mega colon.

I have already started the coconut oil and the cats are tolerating this very well. The aloe vera I already knew about, but have not tried this yet.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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Seriously?  I would be overjoyed if Dory went every other day.  Are you sure she has a problem with constipation?  Every other day isn't ideal but is it really a problem?  
Ideally cats 'should' have a BM every day. But as they get older or develop digestive issues and start to have bouts of constipation, they invariably will develop a new normal where every day potentially becomes every couple of days. My rule of thumb for Max is no more than two days. If he has not gone by the second day then this tells me that he needs some further intervention. 

For Sugglecat : Max continues to have a BM, on average every 36 hours, but sometimes every 24. The texture is good and the amount is in keeping with what it should be for his size. So attribute a lot of this to the SEB but also more wet food in his diet. Hopefully you can find a source and give this a try. I have also been giving SEB to my female who also seldom misses things 'slipped' into her food and so far she is eating her wet food, SEB and all, so Peaches might too.
 
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tdonline

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One, are you using SEB only at this point?  I have SEB, coconut oil and B12 all on hand.  I'm wondering at what point should I try one or more of those supplements with miralax?  Or should I just forget about it and stick with miralax only?  If miralax is the softner, would one of the SEB, coconut oil and B12 be added as a stimulant?
 

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One, are you using SEB only at this point?  I have SEB, coconut oil and B12 all on hand.  I'm wondering at what point should I try one or more of those supplements with miralax?  Or should I just forget about it and stick with miralax only?  If miralax is the softner, would one of the SEB, coconut oil and B12 be added as a stimulant?
Coconut oil increases metabolism and is therefore a stimulant. B12 enhances nerve function. SEB softens the stool.

If you try any remedies, you should try the ONE AT A TIME so that you can correlate cause and effect.

Fixing chronic constipation/megacolon is a trial and error process, so it is important to keep a journal of what remedies you are administering and notes about stool/bowel movements.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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One, are you using SEB only at this point?  I have SEB, coconut oil and B12 all on hand.  I'm wondering at what point should I try one or more of those supplements with miralax?  Or should I just forget about it and stick with miralax only?  If miralax is the softner, would one of the SEB, coconut oil and B12 be added as a stimulant?
Yes, for the most part Max is just getting SEB, each morning with the first feeding, and the coconut oil every couple of days. One of the qualities of the SEB is that it causes a reflux stimulation of nerve endings in the gastrointestinal tract leading to increased mucus secretion which helps to protect and soothe the tract, and in this way may also help to improve motility. My understanding of B12 in treating constipation is that it is used to help aid in digestion and in tandem with probiotics, to help facilitate enzymatic function. 

If Miralax is working to keep Dory's stools soft then this is half the battle at least, so I would be inclined to continue with this. I am not sure how SEB and Miralax would work together so can't offer much advice in this respect except to make the suggestion to try a little SEB early in the day and the Miralax later on and see how things go.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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Just following up on some points made in previous posts. I was pretty tuckered out from the week last night and so did not take the time to respond to everything that I would have liked.

tdonline: You asked about massage in an earlier post and I think this can be very helpful. In humans, there is a type of massage called a colonic massage which can act like peristalsis to help move stools around and down to where they should be, help to clear trapped gas, and can help ease the passing of hard and stubborn stools. In times of acute episodes of constipation, I have given Max a gentle massage of his belly starting from the top and working my way to the other end. The important thing is to start slow and watch for signs of stress or discomfort, and to discontinue the massage for another day if you are, or are thinking of trying this on Dory.

The following link is to an NCBI (US Ntl Library of Medicine) article which discusses abdominal massage as it relates to constipation in humans, and mentions that studies have been conducted on the efficacy of abdominal massage in helping to treat constipation. It also mentions the traditional approach of laxatives in treating constipation and how long-term use 'may be associated with harmful side-effects including increased constipation and fecal impaction', which was interesting to note although I have had my suspicians about this possibility for some time : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21943617

This next link is to a video of a woman (holistic practitioner) who is applying massage to a cat with ongoing issues with constipation. This may give you some ideas on technique :
RE: SEB

I wanted to track back on the subject of SEB to respond to and mention some things that are important to keep in mind. I am not sure I agree with the suggestion that SEB softens stools so much as it acts to smooth and lubricate the intestinal tract to help stools move more easily which is why it is often recommended to use on cats with IBS or IBD, but also can be effective for some cats with chronic constipation issues. Max's stools have not been what I would call 'soft' but firm (not hard though) and well-formed. As SEB will absorb 10 times its weight in water, it is REALLY important that water be added to SEB before or after adding to wet food . It is also important to note that SEB is a source of fiber, which may or may not be beneficial for some cats, depending on the cause and nature of constipation.

I do agree that it is important to determine the cause of constipation when making the decision to try a particular supplement or treatment such as SEB or Coconut Oil, as you may be trying something that has no chance of making a difference. For instance a pelvic injury which has resulted in damage to nerve endings and the inability to feel sensation in the colon. The response here might be to use cisapride to increase motility if it is thought that a loss of motility is the cause of an inability to have a BM. That said there are also chiropractic and acupuncture therapies to consider. If the cause of constipation is diet related, IBS/IBD or as the result of enzyme insufficiency however, then Cisapride would not be appropriate, IMO and experience, in lieu of supplements like SEB and Coconut Oil. Discovering the difference takes time but it is worth the effort if only to avoid trying a bunch of different things but getting no meaningful results.

When we had Max x-rayed, we were looking for abnormalities and possible damage in the pelvic region, thinking this might be contributing to the ongoing constipation, but thankfully nothing was found from the 3 slides that were taken, just lots of feces but not a full-blown impaction! Not knowing enough about or insisting on looking at other possibilities at the time, I agreed to putting Max on Cisapride and Fibre Response food. As mentioned already, no meaningful change in the 3 months he was on it. Today I am convinced that Max's constipation issues stem from the wrong kind of diet, to being on dry food, to a sluggish digestion due to his age or genetics which has led me to turn to a holistic approach in hopes of getting to the root of the problem to prevent constipation, rather than throwing a bunch of drugs at it. I think there is a personal solution and approach for every cat who is prone to constipation but as Raintyger suggested, it does involve a lot of trial and error for those willing to accept the challenge but ultimate rewards.

As an important update for those contemplating SEB, there was one day this week that I did not add SEB to Max's morning feed and the result was that his BM was delayed by two days. I started back yesterday and he had a smaller BM. This morning his BM was back to normal, so a BM in two days is a new record for Max! Coincidence or significance - You be the judge 
. The important takeaway here is that if you start the SEB, to continue giving it until you see that it is not making a difference.
 
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raintyger

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Slippery elm bark is a source of soluble fiber, so it will soften the stool somewhat but not add bulk like insoluble fiber. Please be aware, though, that soluble fiber also tends to slow down digestion.

Below is a link to a cat whose owner gives it colon massages to help with its megacolon.You have to be careful as massaging too rough can cause damage to the colon or even internal organs. There is also a certain direction you're supposed to go in depending on which side of the body you're massaging. If you don't start and move in the right direction you can actually cause a blockage! See the YouTube video for more information on this.

http://mycatgoma.com/2013/05/success-in-controling-magacolon-in-cat.html


The Goma website (1st link) also has a good summary of megacolon treatment in general.

http://mycatgoma.com/p/megacolon.html
 
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UPDATE : Max had another BM this morning. He missed a day yesterday, but this could be the result of giving some weruva (new grain-free wet food I am trying) instead of Wellness. All in all, really encouraging results thus far. He is now getting two doses of SEB a day. One at 5:00AM and 10:00AM. Also giving SEB to Maggie and her BMs are looking more formed and normalized. While she has not had a problem with constipation, she has on occasion vomited her food (may be due to eating too fast or stress from new cat - Thomas) and so I think the SEB and probiotics will help with this.
 

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UPDATE : Max had another BM this morning. He missed a day yesterday, but this could be the result of giving some weruva (new grain-free wet food I am trying) instead of Wellness. All in all, really encouraging results thus far. He is now getting two doses of SEB a day. One at 5:00AM and 10:00AM. Also giving SEB to Maggie and her BMs are looking more formed and normalized. While she has not had a problem with constipation, she has on occasion vomited her food (may be due to eating too fast or stress from new cat - Thomas) and so I think the SEB and probiotics will help with this.
How do you time SEB and probiotics? I mean, do you space them out or give them in the same time?
 
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oneandahalfcats

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How do you time SEB and probiotics? I mean, do you space them out or give them in the same time?
That is a good question IrinaSaK .. I actually haven't started the probiotics with anyone yet but will be mindful that this should be given separate from the SEB, or totally on its own and discontinuing the SEB .. Want to do a little more investigating before implementing this with or without SEB. For the SEB, I mix this with water and add it to Max & Maggie's wet food at 5:00AM, and do the same for the feeding at 10:00AM.
 
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snugglecat

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So glad to hear Max is doing so well. The SEB must be working for him. I was wondering how the vet decided he has megacolon. Every time I have taken Peaches in, the vets will say she does not have that because her stools are not big like you would find in a megacolon cat. I mean I'm glad she doesn't have it but does Max have really big stools when he goes? Peaches has had x-rays also but it didn't show anything and that is why they want to do the ultra sound on her. Right now she is doing well and going every other day but this is normal as she will do well for a while and then get backed up, throw up and the cycle begins again.

I do think part of Peaches problem is whenever she has canned food that is not grain free she starts having issues. Sometimes I will mix Friskies in with her Wellness just to get her to eat. She does not like the Wellness by itself and the only other food she will eat is the Wild Calling turkey and that sometimes gives her gas. The Wild Calling cannot be mixed with the Wellness because then the gas is really bad, she can clear a room. I bought a can of the turkey Blue Wilderness but I don't think she will eat it. It's just so hard finding a grain free canned food she will eat and it has to be turkey, she does not like chicken.

She had a B12 injection this month so I am hoping this well help her as my vet is thinking she could have IBD with constipation.
 

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That is a good question IrinaSaK .. I actually haven't started the probiotics with anyone yet but will be mindful that this should be given separate from the SEB, or totally on its own and discontinuing the SEB .. Want to do a little more investigating before implementing this with or without SEB. For the SEB, I mix this with water and add it to Max & Maggie's wet food at 5:00AM, and do the same for the feeding at 10:00AM.
I give Sophie SEB for maintenance now, as she has regular BM now every 24 hours. Talking to my vets (who knew nothing about SEB before but understand now the way it works) we have come to the conclusion that giving SEB twice a week is enough. So I have been giving Sophie SEB on Thursdays and Saturdays for two months and it's working out. She's having one 370mg capsule/day split in am and pm, mixed with water and then with wet food.

I have introduced probiotics since december, but I will give in to her five days out of seven (the other two days she has SEB). I would give them everyday, but she has three meals/day and I work full time, so that doesn't leave enough time for both SEB and probiotics without interfering one with another.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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So glad to hear Max is doing so well. The SEB must be working for him. I was wondering how the vet decided he has megacolon. Every time I have taken Peaches in, the vets will say she does not have that because her stools are not big like you would find in a megacolon cat. I mean I'm glad she doesn't have it but does Max have really big stools when he goes? Peaches has had x-rays also but it didn't show anything and that is why they want to do the ultra sound on her. Right now she is doing well and going every other day but this is normal as she will do well for a while and then get backed up, throw up and the cycle begins again.

I do think part of Peaches problem is whenever she has canned food that is not grain free she starts having issues. Sometimes I will mix Friskies in with her Wellness just to get her to eat. She does not like the Wellness by itself and the only other food she will eat is the Wild Calling turkey and that sometimes gives her gas. The Wild Calling cannot be mixed with the Wellness because then the gas is really bad, she can clear a room. I bought a can of the turkey Blue Wilderness but I don't think she will eat it. It's just so hard finding a grain free canned food she will eat and it has to be turkey, she does not like chicken.

She had a B12 injection this month so I am hoping this well help her as my vet is thinking she could have IBD with constipation.
Thanks Snugglecat! Max's BMs are not huge at all, but normal for his size. There are like tootsie rolls which is actually ideal. The initial diagnosis of megacolon seem to center totally around the amount of feces that Max had in him, and little else which is what prompted me to seek another opinion. Cats get constipated and become full of feces for any number of reasons. Does this mean they have megacolon, not necessarily.

I am glad to hear that Peaches is doing well! From what you describe, it almost sounds like she may have a problem in digesting certain things. She might definitely benefit from probiotics (in addition to the B12) which will help to process food more efficiently, and in turn may result in more regular BMs. Probiotics improve gut health, but also introduce beneficial enzymes (which Peaches may be lacking or missing) to help with digestion. I purchased Natural Factors Acidolphus Bifidus probiotics and will be trying this soon on Max and Maggie.
 
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tdonline

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Snugglecat, do you think the B12 has helped or working?  When did she get the shot?
 
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oneandahalfcats

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I give Sophie SEB for maintenance now, as she has regular BM now every 24 hours. Talking to my vets (who knew nothing about SEB before but understand now the way it works) we have come to the conclusion that giving SEB twice a week is enough. So I have been giving Sophie SEB on Thursdays and Saturdays for two months and it's working out. She's having one 370mg capsule/day split in am and pm, mixed with water and then with wet food.

I have introduced probiotics since december, but I will give in to her five days out of seven (the other two days she has SEB). I would give them everyday, but she has three meals/day and I work full time, so that doesn't leave enough time for both SEB and probiotics without interfering one with another.
Glad to hear that Sophie is doing so well!  Every 24 hours is great. Its what we all aim for


Thanks for the feedback on the SEB and probiotics schedule that you are doing. Very helpful. I anticipated that at some point I would be able to lessen the amount of SEB that Max gets to once or twice a week. You have given me a good idea to perhaps start the probiotics in giving this and then SEB alternately which would be far enough apart. I will think about starting this next week. Will give the SEB-only another week.
 
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Snugglecat, do you think the B12 has helped or working?  When did she get the shot?
 She just had the injection January 13 so not sure if it is going to help her or not. I am not sure how many times she will get the injection before we will know if it's working. The vet said if it did work she would have  the B12 injection once a month. I tried giving Peaches probiotics, the same one Max is getting but she will not eat her food when I add it in and I have tried several times in the last month. I do know that no matter what we try she still has days where she will run around crying before having a BM.

Glad to hear Sophie is doing well.
 
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oneandahalfcats

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I tried giving Peaches probiotics, the same one Max is getting but she will not eat her food when I add it in and I have tried several times in the last month. I do know that no matter what we try she still has days where she will run around crying before having a BM.

Glad to hear Sophie is doing well.
Aww, sorry to read that she won't eat the wet food with probiotic. There may be a liquid form you could try?

I really think that if you can get a hold of some Slippery Elm that this is going to help lessen the incidents of crying before having a BM. Max used to howl and cry out as well, but since increasing the wet food and adding SEB, he hasn't done this in quite some time. The SEB coats the intestinal tract which helps the feces to move through the tract much easier. I have seen online that it also comes in a liquid form. Here is one source : http://www.naturalwellbeing.com/products/slippery-elm. I saw an ad here at catsite for a liquid form of SEB, and I am sure there are many others available online.

EDIT : Just had some further thoughts re. the probiotic. What about splitting the dose for the day into smaller bits in each meal for Peaches? This way she is still getting the dose for the day but in smaller doses. She might not pick it up in the food as readily. Just a thought.
 
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