Slippery Elm Bark, Wet food, Managing Constipation

[oneandahalfcats]

Good for you Snugglecat for sticking with her. I know how frustrating it is to witness cats that are not eating or pooping and could not imagine giving up either. If its any consolation, my female is a very picky eater as well. I think on average from what I've read and heard, females are more prone to this than males. As much as I would love for my girl to eat the grain-free wellness that I serve the boys which is much better for her, she is not always willing to but prefers the Fancy Feast grilled chicken. The aroma of this stuff makes her squeal with delight and she will eat every bit of it, so she gets this sometimes but I still offer the wellness. Have you tried the FF grilled varieties?

From what you have mentioned it sounds as though there may be a couple of things going on. One, that she may not be eating enough to form enough bulk to go that often, and two, that she may have digestive and/or malabsorption issues.What has been the opinion of your vet as to why your kitty is not eating much? If her digestion is poor then this could make her feel unwell and not want to eat much. In this case a good probiotic could be very beneficial in introducing digestive enzymes that she may be lacking to help her digest food more appropriately. If there is a problem wth appetite then this will require a different solution, although if you are able to find some SEB, one of its other benefits besides helping with constipation is that it can help stimulate appetite.

Re. the grass eating, a lot of cats do this and it is completely normal. As grass is something that cats can't naturally digest, the result is to regurgitate it a few minutes after eating it which has a cleansing effect and cats usually feel a lot better after. 

One thing to try if you haven't already would be to put a little tuna or tuna juice in her wet food if she likes fish.

Hang in there and know that you are not alone in this.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
oneandahalfcats,

I too also noticed since starting Peaches on the fiber response food that her stools are huge and she never had that problem before. She always had very small stools and the vets kept telling me she didn't have megacolon because they were small and most megacolon cats have huge stools. I have stopped that food and taking it back.

I'm also not going to feed her the last can of Nature's Variety, I did just look and it is high in fiber and we ended up at the vet when she finished the can. She was doing really good on the Wellness but for some reason she is refusing that now and that is when we started going to the vet more often for constipation problems.

I was wondering what low fiber dry food you are feeding? I think I will pick up some Slippery Elm Bark and give that a try.

Thanks so much for everyone's feedback on this constipation issue and oneandahalfcats I am so sorry Max is having all this trouble too. I hope he starts doing much better with the food changes.

My apologies Snugglecat, somehow I totally missed this post from you from the first page of this thread and am just seeing this now. Very sorry about that!

That is interesting feedback on the Nature's Variety, thank you. Between Raintyger and your comments, I have discontinued the NV food as well as I think the clay ingredient will cause problems for Max. The odd thing is that the BM he had last Monday was really good which I attributed partly to the NV food that he had been getting for a couple of days prior.

To answer your question re. the low fiber food, I switched from the wheat and corn based Royal Canin about a month ago to a new dry food here in Canada that contains brown rice and barley as grains, and chicken and then chicken meal as first ingredients for protein sources and also contains a number of other good things like whole dried egg, herring meal, salmon oil. The Royal Canin contained only chicken meal and then wheat and corn gluten as first ingredients so the low fibre is some improvement but I want to get everyone off of this as well soon. I would think that there are low fibre diets that are available in the states that you could try. Someone may see this and have some ideas for you.

UPDATE on Max .. He has had two bowel movements since the one I reported about last Wednesday. The second to last one was a series of smaller tootsie role pieces versus a long piece, and the one just this morning was like the one from last Monday. So, something is definitely making a difference and I think it is the SEB with the increased wet food. The next step will be to start switching the dry ration in the afternoon, for a wet ration a couple of times a week and see what this produces. I have been giving Maggie some of the SEB as well as she has been having the odd bit of trouble. Her stools have been looking sharp and in smaller pieces rather than well formed. Her bowel movement this morning looked much better. She's a little girl in comparison to Max and Thomas, so she doesn't produce as much as a rule. I think I am going to also look into a probiotic for Max and Maggie, as suggested by Raintyger. I have only ever tried the purina fortiflora but didn't think much of it.

 

[snugglecat]

I am so glad to hear Max is doing a little better. Peaches finally went yesterday. The vet also called yesterday and she has agreed to try the B12 injections, we go in Monday to get that done. I'm not sure I can stop the Fiber Response dry food, Peaches now will not go back to her regular dry food. She wouldn't eat the old food for 2 days and last night I put a few pieces of the Fiber Response in her dish and she ate it so I put a few more in and she ate that. I might just keep it, like I said she doesn't eat much of it. She just likes to snack on it here and there. I have been trying since 2010 to get her to eat a better dry food but she turns her nose up at all of them and then gets stressed out from that one new piece of food in her dish and then she gets constipated. She mostly eats wet anyway which is why I don't understand why she has so many problems going poop.

Max might do okay with just a little extra fiber in the canned food, you never know. Maybe wait and try the NV again and see if he goes as well as the first time he had it. I try to switch Peaches food up anyway and I still have a can of the NV that I might try again. I have learned though that every time Peaches has Fancy Feast Turkey and liver we always end up at the vet to get cleaned out. She is allergic to fish so it's hard finding a food that has no fish or fish oil in it. We are very limited on canned food because she is so picky and then can't have any fish in it. Right now I am feeding Wellness turkey and she did eat it. She stopped eating it for a while, I think she just gets bored after a while on the same food.

I have also tried a probiotic but she will not eat the food when I add it in. She did eat the Purina Fortiflora but it gives her horrible gas so I don't give her that one. I bought one that a lot of people recommend on this site but like I said she won't eat the food when I add it. I will still search for the SEB and give that a try but I'm afraid she won't eat her food when I add it.

Good luck with Max and I hope he continues to do well.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
I am so glad to hear Max is doing a little better. Peaches finally went yesterday. The vet also called yesterday and she has agreed to try the B12 injections, we go in Monday to get that done. I'm not sure I can stop the Fiber Response dry food, Peaches now will not go back to her regular dry food. She wouldn't eat the old food for 2 days and last night I put a few pieces of the Fiber Response in her dish and she ate it so I put a few more in and she ate that. I might just keep it, like I said she doesn't eat much of it. She just likes to snack on it here and there. I have been trying since 2010 to get her to eat a better dry food but she turns her nose up at all of them and then gets stressed out from that one new piece of food in her dish and then she gets constipated. She mostly eats wet anyway which is why I don't understand why she has so many problems going poop.

Max might do okay with just a little extra fiber in the canned food, you never know. Maybe wait and try the NV again and see if he goes as well as the first time he had it. I try to switch Peaches food up anyway and I still have a can of the NV that I might try again. I have learned though that every time Peaches has Fancy Feast Turkey and liver we always end up at the vet to get cleaned out. She is allergic to fish so it's hard finding a food that has no fish or fish oil in it. We are very limited on canned food because she is so picky and then can't have any fish in it. Right now I am feeding Wellness turkey and she did eat it. She stopped eating it for a while, I think she just gets bored after a while on the same food.

I have also tried a probiotic but she will not eat the food when I add it in. She did eat the Purina Fortiflora but it gives her horrible gas so I don't give her that one. I bought one that a lot of people recommend on this site but like I said she won't eat the food when I add it. I will still search for the SEB and give that a try but I'm afraid she won't eat her food when I add it.

Good luck with Max and I hope he continues to do well.

That is great news that Peaches went! If the Fibre Response is helping her to have good bowel movements and she likes it, then this is good. I would just say to be aware of the wheat and corn gluten content in the Royal Canin and to ensure that she gets enough protein from meat sources as there is not much 'good' or right kind of protein in the Royal Canin. Its true that some cats require more fibre to form proper bulk enough to create enough sensation to have a proper bowel movement and maybe this is what your vet was thinking in prescribing the fibre food for Peaches?

I used to think Max was one cat who needed more fibre and to some extent I think this is true .. There are however different types of fibre and I prefer to use the soluable type such as pumpkin and psyllium rather than dry food that contains wheat and corn which is the insoluble type. The Nature's Variety seems like really nice food but I am a little leery about the clay content in it and think that this will cause problems down the road for Max. So, I will continue with the Wellness for now and think about other good grain-free wet foods that don't contain carageenan. Raintyger mentioned Hound and Gatos which I can't get in town here, but apparently is available at pet food stores an hour from here. I have just read with interest that the Fancy Feast CLASSICS is a grain-free (no wheat gluten) and carageenan-free  variety and so I am going to look into some of this for Maggie. Thank you for the support and well wishes!

 

 

[raintyger]

 Raintyger mentioned Hound and Gatos which I can't get in town here, but apparently is available at pet food stores an hour from here. I have just read with interest that the Fancy Feast CLASSICS is a grain-free (no wheat gluten) and carageenan-free  variety and so I am going to look into some of this for Maggie. Thank you for the support and well wishes!

 

Please see my signature for places you can order single cans of Hound and Gatos online from.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Please see my signature for places you can order single cans of Hound and Gatos online from.

I will be taking a drive at some point to check out the Hound and Gatos in store, but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[tdonline]

Instead of starting a thread, I'm going to post here for continuity sake.

Dory was about to go to the vet for an enema as she was a on 6 day streak of zero defecation.  But she just did the business.  I was thrilled but also wary because the consistency of the poop was soft and moist.  Wouldn't it make sense that there would be old dried poop along with the fresher poop?  What did come out was a large amount though.  The vet said to not bring Dory in but to just keep an eye on her.  I told the office if she goes on another streak--she's coming in whether she needs an enema or not.

I wonder if Dory is pranking me and there's old dried poop somewhere hiding in the bedroom?  I swear, I check...it's not a big room...

In any case, I'm streamlining the feeding/medication/supplement process so I can pinpoint what works.  For now we are tapering off to prozac every other day with lots of canned food and 1/4 teaspoon of miralax daily.  They were only getting about 1 tablespoon of dry food daily but I'm going to cut that out or down to treat servings.  

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Instead of starting a thread, I'm going to post here for continuity sake.

Dory was about to go to the vet for an enema as she was a on 6 day streak of zero defecation.  But she just did the business.  I was thrilled but also wary because the consistency of the poop was soft and moist.  Wouldn't it make sense that there would be old dried poop along with the fresher poop?  What did come out was a large amount though.  The vet said to not bring Dory in but to just keep an eye on her.  I told the office if she goes on another streak--she's coming in whether she needs an enema or not.

I wonder if Dory is pranking me and there's old dried poop somewhere hiding in the bedroom?  I swear, I check...it's not a big room...

In any case, I'm streamlining the feeding/medication/supplement process so I can pinpoint what works.  For now we are tapering off to prozac every other day with lots of canned food and 1/4 teaspoon of miralax daily.  They were only getting about 1 tablespoon of dry food daily but I'm going to cut that out or down to treat servings.  

Oh that is such great news! Way to go Dory! It would make sense that some of the BM would have been dark in color and firmer, but actually a blessing that it wasn't and her passing of it must have not been too uncomfortable.

Re. pranking, LOL! yes, you never know. 

  We have a baseboard heater in one of the bathrooms where we have a litter box and one day I was sure Max had a BM in there and went to look for it in the box. I couldn't see it but could smell it and thought, 'what the heck'? I looked around all over and then found it - It was sitting perched IN the baseboard (which wasn't turned on by the way) next to the box! He must have turned around while he was in the process, and it slipped over the edge? Mystery solved thank goodness!

Re. the streamlining, that is really good!

Sometimes changes can help to shake things up or see if something is working, or not.  Really hope this BM can be the start of something GOOD! Please keep us posted!

Btw, feel free to post away here anytime. Some of us are in the same boat, so why not.

 

 

[tdonline]

I'm also going to skip the Advantage application this month.  It's due on Sunday.  I've read that constipation may be one of the lesser-known side effects.  My cats were suffering from mild constipation due to prozac but Dory's condition worsened a week or so before Christmas--which was right around the time of their last Advantage application.  Coincidence?  

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
I'm also going to skip the Advantage application this month.  It's due on Sunday.  I've read that constipation may be one of the lesser-known side effects.  My cats were suffering from mild constipation due to prozac but Dory's condition worsened a week or so before Christmas--which was right around the time of their last Advantage application.  Coincidence?  

Really? Hmm, I wouldn't think the Advantage itself could have anything to do with constipation as its a topical application, but I would be concerned if you think she might have ingested some. I am not a fan of the OTC flea and tick products as the ingredients are toxic and I would be concerned about the chance of the cats licking or consuming stuff that could make them sick. I use Revolution for fleas which is a liquid application that you apply two different courses of to the skin at base of the back of the neck. I had to dose everyone when it was discovered that Thomas had a fleas when we first took him in. Thankfully it was a mild case.

 

[tdonline]

I'm not sure I can copy and paste a post from the Yahoo megacolon group here?  A poster by the name of Krysia explained in a detailed post on how the ingredient(s)  in flea drops are paralytic in nature and may affect some cats' ability to "push" waste out.  

I do not use OTC flea products either.  It's January so flea applications aren't a priority.  I may need to start a thread for safe flea drop alternatives once the weather warms up.  I'm hoping my cats won't be on prozac at that time.  Maybe the combo of prozac and Advantage is too much on their delicate digestive systems?

 

[raintyger]

I believe I left the Yahoo! group just as the flea medication poster came in. I did some research on it and found on a few sites there was mention of flea medication in connection with constipation, although it is not very common. I just did another search and found this page which references flea medication and constipation in dogs:

http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/dog-constipation.html

 

[tdonline]

When I first asked about Miralax in another thread, my question revolved around frequency versus softening.  So far for my cats--Miralax works in terms of softening the stool.  I've checked and the stools are soft and squishy.  But using Miralax has not increased the frequency of my cats' bowel movements.  Members have said using Miralax will alleviate constipation--I interpret this as the cats will go more.  In my case though, my cats do not go more.  It's just that when they do go, the stool is soft.  Yet my cats aren't defecating every day or even every other day.  At best, it's every 3 days.

What am I doing wrong?  Or not doing?  It's a head scratcher for me.

Generally the cats are receiving about 1/4 to 3/8 of teaspoon daily (served over two canned meals with added water).  Since the cats' stools are soft as it is...I don't see how giving more miralax is going to help?

 

[raintyger]

 
When I first asked about Miralax in another thread, my question revolved around frequency versus softening.  So far for my cats--Miralax works in terms of softening the stool.  I've checked and the stools are soft and squishy.  But using Miralax has not increased the frequency of my cats' bowel movements.  Members have said using Miralax will alleviate constipation--I interpret this as the cats will go more.  In my case though, my cats do not go more.  It's just that when they do go, the stool is soft.  Yet my cats aren't defecating every day or even every other day.  At best, it's every 3 days.

What am I doing wrong?  Or not doing?  It's a head scratcher for me.

Generally the cats are receiving about 1/4 to 3/8 of teaspoon daily (served over two canned meals with added water).  Since the cats' stools are soft as it is...I don't see how giving more miralax is going to help?

Miralax does not help with frequency. Miralax draws water into the bowel and keeps stool soft so it is easy to pass. It can help indirectly in that stool that is easier to pass won't get stuck and hang around in the bowel.

If you are looking to increase frequency, then cisapride is typically used. This drug is not without its negative consequences, though. After long-term use cisapride can interfere with the body's natural peristalsis (bowel movement stimulation), and the body's natural ability diminishes.

Natural remedies for increased movement include coconut oil and aloe vera juice. These don't have as much efficacy as the cisapride, however. Aloe vera you have to be careful with, as you need to use the inner leaf and no preservatives; otherwise it is toxic.

I do notice that your dosage of Miralax is low; the average dosage is 1/4 tsp 2x daily. However, if the stool is soft you shouldn't need to increase.

 

[tdonline]

 Miralax does not help with frequency. Miralax draws water into the bowel and keeps stool soft so it is easy to pass. It can help indirectly in that stool that is easier to pass won't get stuck and hang around in the bowel.

Yep, that's my understanding of how it works.  And why I asked about frequency...and the replies were it worked in alleviating constipation for my cat(s).  I guess the implication is as you wrote--the softer the stool the easier to pass and voila, more movement.  My cats though aren't responding with more movement.  Which I guess is down to their prozac.  

I'm tapering them to prozac every other day.  It's a gradual process so perhaps the side effects will linger.  A nightmare scenario is if the new schedule doesn't help.  I noticed they are urinating more the last couple of days--since being on prozac they pee less frequently too.  I'm hopeful that's due to the tapering this week.  I can only hope their defecation schedule will follow suit.

I gave them coconut oil a couple of times last week.  Not enough to test its efficacy I suppose but I didn't see any improvement in any case.  This week I decided to cut back to bare basics--wet food, miralax and water to get a better picture of what works.  Perhaps after this week I'll reintroduce the coconut oil.  I also stopped the B12 supplement and slippery elm.

The only other thing I can think of is that this is behavioral.  They are undergoing separation and reintroduction and they're shy/stressed about doing the business because of the "other cat" in the apartment.  

 I do notice that your dosage of Miralax is low; the average dosage is 1/4 tsp 2x daily. However, if the stool is soft you shouldn't need to increase.

Yes, I would increase if it meant more frequency but since their stool is so soft already I'm afraid an increase will result in diarrhea.  I also noticed that when I give more than 1/8 each meal--the cats tend to not finish their meal.  It's like they know...

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Hi tdonline : How is Dory doing?

Re. Cisapride, we did not experience any increase in frequency when Max was on this, in fact, we questioned whether it was working at all. Max was on it for 3 months. It is a very expensive (and overrated IMO) medication and comes with the risk of side effects such as seizures, severe allergic reactions and abdominal pain. For my peace of mind and pocket book, I would rather look to natural solutions such as the coconut oil and aloe vera (which I have actually heard good things about) that Raintyger mentioned. I have also just purchased some probiotics 'Natural Factors Acidophilus & Bifidus' today and am going to give this a try and see if it can make a difference with Max's digestion. In fact, I think everybody is going to get some. Will let you know what turns up with this.

 

[tdonline]

One, thanks for asking, Dory is doing okay.  Except for the constipation part I suppose.  She's not sick, she's no throwing up, she's eating...but she can't go on having a BM once a week or so...

My cats were getting fortiflora daily but like all the other supplements, I stopped it this week.

Thank you and Rain for word about ciapspride.  I have seen it discussed quite a bit here.  I haven't brought it up with the vet and it's not yet an option...but eventually something has to give.

I know inactivity is probably a factor also and having a small apartment divided most definitely doesn't help. I play with them daily but it probably isn't enough to make up for the loss of half their real estate for most of the day. They also have lost their interaction with each other.  I also used to walk them outdoors but can't do that now due to colder weather and redirected aggression issues (this was kicked off by a visiting neighborhood cat and I'm afraid what a chance encounter may do to my cats reconciling).

 

[snugglecat]

I too have found out Miralax does not help with frequency. Today is the 17th and Peaches has only went 8 days out of the 17. I still haven't gotten any SEB but not sure she will eat the food with that in it. She is so picky and can tell when I add things to her food. I bought some probiotics but she won't eat her food when I add that. I can't add to much miralax because she knows that is in her food. I was just wondering what is considered  normal?  If she seems to be doing fine and eating is it alright for her to only go every 3 or 4 days? She went Monday and then again Wednesday and I hope she will go today.

My vet has recommended the Cisapride but I just can't afford it. I guess I will just keep doing what I'm doing. Hope everything works out for Max and Dory.

 

[tdonline]

 Today is the 17th and Peaches has only went 8 days out of the 17.

Seriously?  I would be overjoyed if Dory went every other day.  Are you sure she has a problem with constipation?  Every other day isn't ideal but is it really a problem?  

 

[snugglecat]

 
Seriously?  I would be overjoyed if Dory went every other day.  Are you sure she has a problem with constipation?  Every other day isn't ideal but is it really a problem?  

Sometimes she does go every other day and that is when she is doing good. We are having problems where she does get backed up and then we have to see the vet to get cleaned out. This used to be about every 5 months that this would happen but lately she is needing to go to the vet more often to get cleaned out. I'm trying to get it to the point of not having to go see the vet so often. She also cries and races around before going poop like she is in pain so that is what I'm trying to work on with her.

She might have IBD so we are not just dealing with constipation issues. She did finally go today and she didn't run around crying in pain so that is what I get excited about.