Reintroducing Littermates

[cat nap]

@seasaltysiren

This honestly sounds more like play-fighting than actual fighting to me. All three of my cats play fight with each other. They pounce on each other and wrestle, rabbit kick, bite each other (not hard, obviously) and one always gets up and runs away and the other chases them. Sometimes one will hiss at the other when the other one tries to play with them but is more of a "calm down, I'm not in the mood to play." Than an actual threat.

Also, your kittens are right at the age that they begin to learn "manners" so to speak. This is the age when they learn important things like bite-inhibition (how hard is too hard when biting/ play-fighting) and how to behave around other cats.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about their "fighting" unless it is clear that one is legitimatly trying to hurt the other (which will be very obvious, there will be YOWLING, which is the cat equivalent to screaming, and very loud growling and they will draw blood when fighting).

   Totally agree with @Raina21.

 
There's been no blood at any point of them meeting... Ever!  My Gypsy girl (Calico) is a bit rude lol.  She likes to play rough and has no manners.  Today it started, each of them was fine both near me, no hissing, then Gypsy pounced on Mysti's tail and they started fighting.  They haven't yowled but they do make some noise.  No screeching, but definitely low rumble growls.  Maybe I'll try putting them together again soon.  I just get so nervous. 

I've also noticed when they eat around each other, Gypsy will "bury" her food bowl.... like scratch at the floor all around it and walk off.  Does anyone know what this means?

Some cats will 'try to bury' their food, because if they were in the wild, they would have the instinct to bury what remains of the prey they killed, and have not eaten. Not all cats do this, but it is very interesting to see. Like they want to save the food for later.

Actually, I would NOT separate them anymore, because by them both sleeping so close to one another, it shows how they trust each other.

You may just not be used to the rough playing, but that is precisely how they learn "NOT to bite" too hard.  If they are not given a chance to play, they will develop behaviour problems, later, which will be more difficult to remedy.

Your next goal, will be to teach them to not bite your hands, and act like a 'hurt cat', by crying out, and acting as they do.

In this way, you will be teaching them that they cannot bite people, hands or feet.

The best way to do this is by stroking and patting each of them, all over, when they are sleepy. Touching their paws, feet, mouth, heads, stomach...etc.

 

[cat nap]

 
Okay i'm 100% sure they aren't playing at all. 

Can you take a photo of when you think they are not playing.

 

[seasaltysiren]

Okay i'm 100% sure they aren't playing at all. 

 

   Totally agree with @Raina21.

Some cats will 'try to bury' their food, because if they were in the wild, they would have the instinct to bury what remains of the prey they killed, and have not eaten. Not all cats do this, but it is very interesting to see. Like they want to save the food for later.

Actually, I would NOT separate them anymore, because by them both sleeping so close to one another, it shows how they trust each other.

You may just not be used to the rough playing, but that is precisely how they learn "NOT to bite" too hard.  If they are not given a chance to play, they will develop behaviour problems, later, which will be more difficult to remedy.

Your next goal, will be to teach them to not bite your hands, and act like a 'hurt cat', by crying out, and acting as they do.

In this way, you will be teaching them that they cannot bite people, hands or feet.

The best way to do this is by stroking and patting each of them, all over, when they are sleepy. Touching their paws, feet, mouth, heads, stomach...etc.

Okay I'll try letting them just "play" even though it's scaring the crud out of me... They're playing through the cage now... taking turns pawing and biting at each others feet... no hissing right now. 

I already yell out owwww when Gypsy bites me... she never bites hard unless Mysti is around and I'm scooping her up, even then it's not too hard just enough to let me know she's not playing. 

 

[seasaltysiren]

I took a video of them playing through the cage.  I'll link it once it's uploaded.  It's like they want to be around each other but Gypsy just doesn't respect Mysti's boundaries. 

 

[seasaltysiren]

 
Can you take a photo of when you think they are not playing.

I'll try taking a video when I let Gypsy out of the cage... I'm enjoying watching them paw at each other... it's giving me hope lol. 

Although it's hard to get a video because they run ALL over. 

 

[cat nap]

Sounds good.

I love all your kitten photos.

And videos of them both outside the cage, playing, will be even better for members to see.

Maybe it's scary, because they are so loud?

Or they seem to really go at it, but remember...if they really would have hurt each other, then there is no way that the 'hurt kitten' would go back and look for more.

 

[seasaltysiren]

 

Them "fighting" is uploading now

 

[seasaltysiren]

I can still hear them going at it here and there, but this is basically what happens over and over and over until they're tired, then they nap and are back at it again when they wake. 

 

[seasaltysiren]

Any advice from anyone?? Separate or let them sort it out?

 

[cat nap]

...

I can still hear them going at it here and there, but this is basically what happens over and over and over until they're tired, then they nap and are back at it again when they wake. 

They are playing, but they are playing rough.

The good thing is that they stop, and seem to look at you, mid-way in the video, so that means...that they can stop, and learn to 'hush down' a bit...when you throw them some cues.

Try saying..."Hey, Settle Down, there!",  "Hey, too rough", "Okay, shoe, shoe"....or whatever you think will work to grab their attention.

The other good thing, is that you do have a crate...so that when one is non-stop bothering the other sibling, you can put them in a mini-time-out...say for 10 minutes.  It allows them both to cool off, and do something different.

The only problem, is that sometimes you may think that one started it, but it turns out that it was the other one, ...so I would suggest alternating the time-outs.

They are very vocal.

Or at least it seems that Mysti is, but then I could not tell who does that 'growling-purring' type of sound.

This is still okay, but it is rough to hear. Mysti does get Gypsy back in her attacks, so that is good, and they will alternate who is being more kitten aggressive.

Do you notice, ...if they alternate already?

In who is being chased? and in who is crying out?

 

[seasaltysiren]

 
They are playing, but they are playing rough.

The good thing is that they stop, and seem to look at you, mid-way in the video, so that means...that they can stop, and learn to 'hush down' a bit...when you throw them some cues.

Try saying..."Hey, Settle Down, there!",  "Hey, too rough", "Okay, shoe, shoe"....or whatever you think will work to grab their attention.

The other good thing, is that you do have a crate...so that when one is non-stop bothering the other sibling, you can put them in a mini-time-out...say for 10 minutes.  It allows them both to cool off, and do something different.

The only problem, is that sometimes you may think that one started it, but it turns out that it was the other one, ...so I would suggest alternating the time-outs.

They are very vocal.

Or at least it seems that Mysti is, but then I could not tell who does that 'growling-purring' type of sound.

This is still okay, but it is rough to hear. Mysti does get Gypsy back in her attacks, so that is good, and they will alternate who is being more kitten aggressive.

Do you notice, ...if they alternate already?

In who is being chased? and in who is crying out?

Generally Gypsy is the one chasing, but Mysti does chase Gypsy sometimes... I would say it's about 75% Gypsy chasing... Mysti is VERY vocal. 

I don't see how this can be playing though.  They just got into it on the computer desk... It doesn't last long though.  They're so polar opposite, it's hard to believe they're sisters. They seem to only tolerate each other when they're sleepy/tired out from fighting!! 0.0

 

[cat nap]

 
Any advice from anyone?? Separate or let them sort it out?

Let me ask a few other members to take a look at the video, and see if they can give their input.

They won't be on till very late, or tomorrow, though, since different time zones, international site, and all.

 

[seasaltysiren]

Thank you. Right now they're 'co-existing'. one in my lap the other on the desk... they keep trying to start a fight but I'm saying ehhh and it's keeping them in check... I do however need to hop in the shower... lol

Mysti is falling asleep sitting up on my desk, and Gypsy is bathing in my lap! Hahaha.

 

[cat nap]

 
Generally Gypsy is the one chasing, but Mysti does chase Gypsy sometimes... I would say it's about 75% Gypsy chasing... Mysti is VERY vocal. 

I don't see how this can be playing though.  They just got into it on the computer desk... It doesn't last long though.  They're so polar opposite, it's hard to believe they're sisters. They seem to only tolerate each other when they're sleepy/tired out from fighting!! 0.0

No, it is definitely play.

But now, I'm thinking that you may have to play with them...individually, too, to burn off excess kitten energy.

Also, can you get a video of when Mysti is chasing Gypsy? That would help see, how she starts the action, going.

It's so good that they respond to your voice, and that way they will learn to 'somewhat behave by house rules'.

Not sure about 'polar opposites' ...but they definitely have different styles of play.

I have to say they are adorable, though. Even if they are being 'crazy kittens' at many moments in the day.

Thanks for the updates, and photos, and videos.

 

 

[seasaltysiren]

 
No, it is definitely play.

But now, I'm thinking that you may have to play with them...individually, too, to burn off excess kitten energy.

Also, can you get a video of when Mysti is chasing Gypsy? That would help see, how she starts the action, going.

It's so good that they respond to your voice, and that way they will learn to 'somewhat behave by house rules'.

Not sure about 'polar opposites' ...but they definitely have different styles of play.

I have to say they are adorable, though. Even if they are being 'crazy kittens' at many moments in the day.

Thanks for the updates, and photos, and videos.

 

I do play with them individually with wands and feather teasers. Gypsy is much more hyper than Mysti, although both enjoy playing. 

 

[raina21]

I agree. That is definitely play-fighting it may be a ltitle rough but i think that is just being exaggerated by how vocal one of them is being (if that makes any sense). I think one of them is just very vocal, but it doesn't sound like malicious yowling or growling. So I think you've just got very vocal kitties who like to wrestle.

Also, cats who are legitimatly fighting/don't like each other will NEVER expose their stomachs to each other (the way your 2 girls do when they are playing through the cage).

 

[seasaltysiren]

Well I'm relieved... So definitely no separating? I wonder if they've just been rough housing the entire time... because that's about as bad as it gets and has gotten at any point... I thought the hissing and growling and tail flicking meant that they were serious. 

 

[mservant]

I agree. That is definitely play-fighting it may be a little rough but i think that is just being exaggerated by how vocal one of them is being (if that makes any sense). I think one of them is just very vocal, but it doesn't sound like malicious yowling or growling. So I think you've just got very vocal kitties who like to wrestle.

Also, cats who are legitimately fighting/don't like each other will NEVER expose their stomachs to each other (the way your 2 girls do when they are playing through the cage).

    What cat nap has been saying, and Raina21's observations here make sense to me.  Serious fights are scary to see and would be a lot more vocal.  Play fights can and do include pasting each other on to the back and biting at the neck - but not for a long time and not releasing when the poor cat being flattened on to the floor is squealing persistently.   (Your kitt's are very vocal though LoL).  

I do think that Gypsy is making sure Misti knows who's boss at this point and making it clear to Misti that she has moved in on Gypsy's territory.  As long as Misti is holding her own I don't think you should worry too much:  cats and kittens will always do this to some extent and it often swaps over at different times as cats age together.  In the second video Misti retreats under the chair a couple of times and I think if I saw this repeatedly and for her to look scared to come out / not want to engage in more play fighting it would be time to separate them for a bit.  

If you do feel the need for more separation then keep doing what you have done so far, including the scent swapping and also room swapping - one thing you don't want is for one of them to feel punished, or to inadvertently give the message that one of them always has you and the other gets shut out.  

 I used to have litter sisters who started off playing nicely together but one was usually the instigator and victor, but as she aged she got arthritic and her sister took over and became a secret tyrant!   It can show up in interesting ways like which kitty gets prime lap time, which kitty is at the head end of the bed and which is at the foot (or on the floor).  

Question - which one of them has not been neutered / spayed yet?   This can make a really big difference in terms of natural dominance in a group of cats.

Their playing paw swatting in the cage is a good sign, as is their sleeping close to each other.  Hopefully they will very soon get back to being snuggle-buddies and do a little mutual grooming too.  

 

[seasaltysiren]

Mysti (Grey kitten) is not spayed yet. Gypsy is spayed

 

[handsome kitty]

I would put one in the cage when you are sleeping and alternate which kitten goes in so each has some alone time in the house.  I also recommend ear plugs.  I can finally sleep through my cats but when I have an older foster kitten separated in the room next to mine, either the foster or one of mine is meowing at the door - most of the night.  The sleepless nights are worth it in the end.