Pee NIGHTMARE!

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thesighrye

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@MoochNNoodles

I know, right?! Gosh....It was such an overwhelming morning! But after careful thinking, I'm glad I was able to figure out exactly what was up. She's been calm ever since.

That night, even, when we put the baby gate up so the doggie couldn't stalk her butt, she came and loafed on our couch stool while we were watching TV....TWICE! We have this running joke that she's an "antisocial little *expletive*" lol because she will pull away when you try to smooch her....would rather jump up on her shelves or explore the windows than sit with us and be social....This was her way of saying "Thanks" 
 

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We had a bit of a revelation last night ourselves.  I still found some spots of spraying/peeing going on in the bedroom this week.  At first, I thought it was Cleo and that her mouth was still sore (on top of upset tummy from antibiotics).  Now I'm wondering if it's both of them and if Sophie's issues with Cleo are caused by something else entirely.... a cat that comes to visit our building!   I'm not sure if it's a stray cat or if it does have a home (I really hope no one dumped it).

Last night, I was getting ready for bed.  Cleo was in our bedroom with my husband and Sophie was in the living room at what we call the "kitty window," which is the window next to their perch that we usually keep open at least a little and keep the blind pulled partly up.  That way the girls always have fresh air coming in somewhere and can see outside.  Well, Sophie started to go ballistic in the living room - hissing, growling, and getting louder and louder.  I yelled for my husband to help me out there (my first thought was someone trying to break in!) then headed out to see what the fuss was about.  Cleo joined me and was a few paces further into the room when Sophie REALLY lost it.  She leaped off the cat perch on her way to the bedroom - fur raised, hissing, growling, and literally spitting mad - and ran over Cleo in the process.  Cleo wasn't having any of that and chased her into the bedroom where they proceeded to get into it.  I looked out the window and found a beautiful cat that I've never seen before.  Meanwhile, we separate our cats and send them to their separate corners.  Sophie took up residence in the bathroom and Cleo wanted to be near me.  She wanted me to protect and comfort her but also wanted Sophie to know that I'm Cleo's human.  Sophie kept up her sassing until I finished in the bathroom and took Cleo to bed.

I think this explains why Sophie has been a little aggressive with Cleo in the recent weeks and why they each are sporting scrapes.  We have now closed that window and the blinds so they can't see, smell, or hear that other cat and I get to try to find/catch it.  Hopefully then Sophie will calm down which will help reduce Cleo's stress and our litter box issues will go away.  At least when whichever of them has done in this week, they have primarily hit the puppy pads we have out, which is saving our carpet!  It's times like this that I wish we had a house.  Then I could separate the girls as needed.
 

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Absolutely!  A case of redirected aggression. 

I do hope the cat has a home. If so, and you can locate it, I wonder whether the owners could be convinced to keep her/him in at night?

I'm so glad you have an answer. Let us know how you go.
 
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thesighrye

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That definitely seems to be the case.

On a side note, I still can't get over some of the parallels you and I seem to be experiencing.....flareups of pee, both caused by another animal, around the same time! Wow....
 I feel your pain, still!!!!

I wish we had our own house, too, or at least a condo....then our little misses could run about and dominate so much more space! That's another reason why I'm sad we may not be able to get another kitten in the near future. There simply wouldn't be enough space. Sucks, cause Dakin (humane society in our area) is having a super special on black and white kitties, $100 off......GO FIGURE! THANKS, UNIVERSE! Lol.

I hope that kitty has a home, and perhaps it can be kept in at night or something. 

I'm wondering if part of the issue is that Cleo wants Sophie to know you're "her" human. Perhaps Sophie feels left out in some way? Granted, I'm not with your cats every day like you are so I'm not sure if this may even be relevant. Just my brainspace spewing out whatever it can on a rainy Friday afternoon in a quiet office 


Keep me posted. Still enjoying hearing from you! 
 

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What a relief that you are really getting to the underlying reason for the litter box mishaps! It can be quite the mystery and anything stressful in the cat's eye can set them off - especially the worry of that dog getting to her!! I love her way of thanking you too for the baby gate - such a typical cat-style kind of thanks. Hey - at least you know she is feeling more secure and relaxed now. Hope this completely solves the issue now. :cross: :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

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We have only seen that kitty once and in the brief look I got, it appeared to be in good health.  The cat appeared to have long hair so I can't say for sure how well fed the cat was but it didn't have any matted fur that I could see and was light colored without appearing dirty (as light colored cats can look after living in the woods).  I do think the cat has a home and I hope that one night was the only night it was outside.

Girls update:  *knock on wood* we have been accident/spray free for a few days now.  I still praise Cleo when I've seen she used the litter box and remind her to use it before coming to bed.  I know she understands me because she will "listen" then go use it then come back all prepared to be praised for doing what she was told.  She's such a character!  We still have Sophie occasionally being Miss Hissy Pissy Pants (a new nickname) towards Cleo but we scold her when she grumbles and she rarely gets physical with Cleo.  Cleo ignores the grumbling but on the rare occasion that Sophie lashes out, Cleo will swat her down and if we are home, we separate them.  Luckily, it doesn't happen often.

From the day I brought Cleo home, she had claimed me as her human.  She's always known that I've got her back and won't let anything happen to her.  When we got Sophie, she immediately chose my husband as her human.  Over the past 5 years, Sophie has started to come to me for attention more but it's usually when I'm in the bathroom or on my computer.  This has never caused Cleo any anxiety because I would then snuggle with her or would pet them at the same time, although Cleo has occasionally become jealous (which her response has always been to make me jealous by snuggling with my husband but climbing over me to get to him).  The last two sprays I've encountered happened at the foot of the bed on my husband's side.  That's why I think that may have been Sophie.  We have had a couple days where a cat used a puppy pad to pee on but that coincided with a day that maintenance came in to install a new smoke detector and a carbon monoxide monitor, one on each side of the bedroom door.  I attributed those to be in retaliation of a stranger in the apartment without mom or dad home.
 
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thesighrye

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Hi again, all...apologies for another longish post but I need to vent and I need some eyes to read it!

I'll reply to your posts but first want to get off my chest another....sad to say, incident...:(

I found more pee Friday evening. I thought I smelled it initially when I came in the door from work, but I wasn't sure and thought I was going nuts. Then, ironically, as I was spraying Feliway around the bed, my hand lands in pee. GROSS. I had a moment....I had the week from HELL at work, I was all hormonal and beginning to cramp (lovely, eh?!) and then find this. I nearly lost it. Boyfriend came home and said it was ok, we'll figure it out, we just need to shut her out of the bedroom for a LONG time. (this was a much better reaction than the first time we found the pee!)

SO.....here's the thing....we're not sure what it is. It could be a number of things. First thing that was pointed out to me is the Feliway PLUG IN was out. We have to keep it at a cockeyed position to fit above our power strip, otherwise it will get oil all over whatever is plugged in above it (fyi to whoever has it) so it still works, but it probably runs out a few days sooner than if it was straight up and down. It IS upright, as the directions say. Just a little crooked. I made sure it was sufficient and it indeed was still working.

What I realized after is I think it ran out before the FIRST isolated incident I reported about, almost two weeks ago. Feliway diffusers last approximately a month. At the point of the first incident after purchase, it was almost a month and a half. I'm praying and hoping that's what it was. I soaked the spot on the floor with NM, did the same to the rug, then after about 8hrs of it dripping dry outside (NOT in the sun) I washed it in the washing machine. I swear, I'm a pro at cleaning pee now. We're also thinking that perhaps the dog is still scaring her...Bella likes to sit in the window, and that POS dog will be outside doing her business and then suddenly growl and CHARGE at my cat in the window. It doesn't help that we're a basement apartment and our windows are just at ground level. Big windows, but Bella is basically sitting a couple inches above the ground sitting in the window. Seeing this dog being a jerk is probably part of it! 

Disclaimer: I'm so sorry if I'm offending anyone with me calling this dog names. I actually love all animals, and I do quite like dogs as well (a couple breeds are my favorite, German Shepherds, huskies, big fluffy dogs..) But this dog has given our entire family hell. So I'm sorry, I love animals, but if you met/owned this dog, you'd understand. She's just so improperly trained. 

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Replies! I'm still so glad to keep hearing from everyone.

@GatosMama  I am SO happy to hear of your few days milestone. Your post was almost a week ago, how are things now? It's such a riot that you remind her to use the box, and she goes and does it. Any sign of the mystery kitty? And how are your two children behaving with one another?

@Feralvr.........*super sad face* I THOUGHT I was at the bottom of it! Maybe I am. Maybe it is the dog, and it's because the Feliway was out. These past incidents after the big ordeal were two big pee spots as if she had been holding it in....they weren't sprays. They were also where our feet would land and walk...It has the be the Feliway... I also hadn't sprayed the bed frame consistently since the incident, and she also started scratching the couch again too....but I'm also wondering if the Prozac dosage should be increased? I think perhaps I will call my doctor and see if he or the kitty specialist will call me back. Either one will. They've been SO awesome. I sent them a thank you card. I'll have to post it, I drew the cover 


Thankfully, for now, things are ok. There was a HUUUUUGE pee in the box this morning. It may have been last night, too, but it was the first since the incident Friday. With the amount she peed on the rug, her bladder was pretty empty. And she'll only go once every couple days anyway. Weird, but she's definitely getting enough water, so....I still wonder if this is all because of something that happened to her in the first few weeks of her life. It's a mystery......We're also making sure to give her LOTS of love whenever we can. Another possibility is she's lonely, but I'm too terrified of bringing another kitten into the home for the possibility that it may exacerbate the situation or have her act out in completely different ways. My friend is having difficulties with that right now!

Again, thanks to whoever had the patience to read through my ramblings! I can only babble on and on so much in my head. It's good to get it out. 
 
 
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gatosmama

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@thesighrye I have decided no more posting how good they have been for me!  Every single time I post on here that they are being good/no accidents or tell someone at work, I go home to find pee and spray.  It seems that if they are not peeing in their box that they are at least peeing on a puppy pad and saving the carpet but they are spraying the carpet.  We haven't seen mystery kitty since that first night and for the most part our girls have calmed down towards each other but we will still occasionally hear rumblings from Sophie.  I think she's the instigation with spraying - one favorite spot is the foot of the bed on my husband's side while the other favorites are in front of his laundry basket and his dresser but that one is on my side of the bed.  At this point I think both are spraying because of their tiffs, they are claiming their human, and Sophie may be upset that she doesn't get access to the closet in our bedroom yet.  That used to be one of her favorite places to hide/hang out.  We have given her a box (she chose the box) and put it near the closet so she can at least have a dark place to curl up and feel secure.

The next few days will be interesting for me.  My husband leaves tonight to go out of town for a few days. 
 
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thesighrye

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@GatosMama  I swear there are parallels in our lives and I've never even met you!!

Reason I say that.....this morning, I was doing my thing, bf was asleep behind closed bedroom door so it was just me and little miss hanging out while I was getting ready for work. She was sitting in the window that faces the backyard and I had just pet her to say goodbye. Suddenly she FREAKS OUT, jumps around and off of the window, to the other side of the apartment and jumps back up. Lo and behold, there is a black cat that ran across the garden and stopped about 10-15ft away from the window and poofed all up and was staring down Bella! 

I've seen this cat before but I had never seen it in our yard, just around the neighborhood/houses...
 

gatosmama

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Ooooh, you have a mystery kitty too!  I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the the issue you've been having too.

Miss Cleo got her butt smacked last night.  She was willing to use her litter box before I cleaned it and a little later I forgot to remind her to use it again before bed.  She looked at me, walked to the end of the bed, and peed/sprayed at my husband's dresser.  I really can't say which she did.  She was standing up like she was spraying but there was a lot, which makes me think she peed.  I told her that she could come to bed only after she uses her box....she slept in the living room instead.  *shake my head*
 

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Yeah - I would call the vet first before you increase the Prozac or make any changes in meds. It still sounds like things are going in the right direction though and I hope those two big pee spots are going to be the last! :cross: At least it was not spraying so that is an improvement!! You are definitely making progress and have come a long way with resolving this issue. :vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes::vibes: that it continues on this path!! :)
 
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thesighrye

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Hey there, thanks @Feralvr! Of course I wouldn't tamper with her meds without talking to the Doc. 

I've got the Feliway diffuser refill all plugged in and doing its' thing. For now, we close the bedroom door while we're at work and sleeping. Otherwise while we're home, she has access. I think til I see a few more pees in the box, then we'll let her back in full time. Fingers crossed. 
 
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thesighrye

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FYI I just posted this on facebook, Jackson Galaxy did a little video dedicated to this matter!


I love him
 
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gatosmama

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It's been a few weeks - how's it going @thesighrye?

For the most part we go issue-free.  I don't know if the mystery kitty has been absent or if our girls just don't react like they were.  They still don't cuddle like they used to but they are getting closer and haven't had hissy fits lately.  It seems now the only time I find someone has gone outside of the box are when husband and I argued recently or if I haven't gotten home to clean boxes in what the girls think is a timely manner.  Each time it was Cleo.  When it was due to her box not being cleaned that day, Cleo peed on a nearby puppy pad.  When it was due to the argument, she looked directly at my husband while peeing on the base board of his dresser.  Guess she told him!  With how often she wants her box cleaned now (multiple times a day), I'm going to get one of those Littermaid boxes that clean themselves.  That way she will have a fresh box every time she needs to go and I don't have to clean it three times a day.

One question for all the experienced cat owners out there.  We will be moving in the next couple of months and we don't want this to continue in our new place.  Until this summer, I've never had problems like this before so I never had issues when we moved.  This time we are buying a home and I already said that after we close and get the keys that I want to put in some of the calming diffuser plug-ins but what else should we do to try and prevent these issues?  Any ideas?  We shouldn't have to deal with mystery cats in the area.  The community we are moving into has a strict no outdoor pet policy so all we will see are wild animals of the rabbit, duck, and turtle variety (none of which have caused territory issues with our cats before).  They just installed brand new carpet so we want to keep the girls from peeing/spraying anywhere from the start.  Thanks!
 
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thesighrye

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@GatosMama  HEY THERE! Certainly has been a few weeks, huh?! Lol. My "second job" as an artist has taken off as of late, leaving me little time to scour the kitty forums. So never fear, my silence does not mean the pee nightmare has continued 
I know I'm biased but she's my little beauty queen 
 
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gatosmama

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@thesighrye I'm glad your issues have pretty much been contained.  Unfortunately we are still fighting our battles.  Cleo will use the litter boxes to go potty but is still spraying in the bedroom.  We closed on our house early and slowly moved in over a couple of weeks.  The day we closed I put in 2 different diffusers - 1 in the kitchen/dining room/living room area and the other in our bedroom.  I think seeing boxes being loaded then leaving the apartment caused some stress with her prior to our move.  This past weekend we did the majority of the move, including our cats.  Once in the new place, I set up their brand new litter box which is one of the self cleaning models. We haven't had problems with peeing outside of the boxes but 2 times in 3 days Cleo has marked her territory in our bedroom.  Both times I had a feeling and followed her so she wasn't able to do much but they were both near my things.  I don't know if the move is what caused it this time or if it's because she doesn't smell like herself anymore.  Each time I was able to get her to stop after a little squirt and was able to clean it up before it had time to hit the carpet and sink in.  I'm thinking of getting some of the spray that deters cats from spraying/marking and gets rid of enzymes, stains, and odor.  Hopefully once I cover the lower walls, doors, and carpet in the bedroom (the only room she does this in) then she will stop.  When I catch her in the act she acts like she knows she's doing something wrong.  I've worked at other things to get this to stop as well - she gets daily praise and play for being a good girl, we snuggle a bunch, I talk to her all the time, play with her with toys, etc.  I'm just hoping this isn't how it's going to be from here on out, she's only 14 can could potentially live another 4+ years.  Luckily, Sophie hasn't picked up her bad habits.  I think that is partly because Cleo doesn't have her normal scent, she sees me discipline Cleo, and we clean up the spots quickly and well. 

Here's one of our girls once they started snuggling again.  Sophie is the mostly white cat facing the camera and Cleo is the one that looks like paint has been dripped all over her.

 
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thesighrye

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@GatosMama  Ooohh man, I'm sorry to hear you're still struggling with this challenge :( 

(and thank you, I'm hoping we're out of the woods, the Feliway was in fact out, but she peed while she was, and is, still on Prozac. I'm wondering if that means it's not helping...?)

What is this spray that you've found?

Maybe after you use that, it sounds like a cleaner, see if that helps and maybe get the Feliway spray and spray the living hell out of it a couple times a day. You might go through a few bottles after a while, but it's relatively cheap through Amazon. I've gotten bad about it, but I started to spray our couch with it where she had scratched. While I was doing it, she rubbed up against it after a while, which meant she had no intentions of scratching. Forgot to for several weeks and now we catch her once in a while, so I think I need to get back on that spray train lol. 

I'm really glad we're still keeping in touch 


By the way, your babies are beautiful! I like how you described Cleo's colorings, and Sophie looks like she's got a itty bitty hat on :) they're both precious!

I'm confident in your abilities as a catmommy. It sounds like you take excellent care of them and are very mindful of their needs, and the fact that you're putting continuous effort in to solve this pee problem is commendable. GO YOU!! 
If she's spraying as opposed to peeing, perhaps it's territorial like you said....it's a brand new house, her smell isn't on anything. Maybe that's the reason it's continuing??...

As always, keep me posted, and congrats again on the house :)
 
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