Opinions, please? Is Flowerbelle having a mild asthma attack or a weird purr?

[ldg]

Lauren - ask the questions, please! We're going to be following up with both vets, so don't leave me wondering what I should be chatting about! 

 

[feralvr]

Lauren - ask the questions, please! We're going to be following up with both vets, so don't leave me wondering what I should be chatting about! 

Aw, Laurie. :lol3: I am sure my questions are all of the same things you have thought of!! But, wondering and curious about this: How will you know if/when the ears are completely recovered? Another fluid tap? Another MRI - which would be too costly to do occasionally anyway, so probably out of the question. Is there another way to detect fluid in the ears other than the MRI? Do you just go by whether or not she is doing the heavy purring, swallowing hard, etc. I was also curious to know from the vet that if this were a more serious ear infection, then wouldn't there have been some discharge/fluid coming out of her ears? Does her being deaf (other than hearing your "tongue clicks" :lol3: - I think I saw that somewhere in a post) have any bearing on the possibility of fluid in the ears - a defect of sorts.

 

[ldg]

Thank you!

And yeah, we're wondering about knowing how to know if the problem has been resolved.

There was no fluid or ear gunk because the infection is in the middle ear - behind the ear drum. That creates pressure, thus the discomfort. That's also why it was detected on MRI, not an exam. When researching middle ear infections in humans, it seems there is a way to determine pressure in there without the MRI. I don't know if this can be used for cats though. No one looked for a middle ear infection because she had no clinical signs (normal ones, anyway) that indicated to anyone to look for one. So.... :dk:

The treatment for middle ear infection is oral antibiotics, and depending upon "how severe" the infection is, they may need to be used for "several months." I didn't ask (at the time) how it is determined that the ear infection is resolved.

The ear drops are because of the incisions made in her ear drums to remove the fluid - don't want infection spreading out - or back in.

It would have affected her hearing in a similar way to how we hear sounds when under water - it would not be related to or the cause of her other partial hearing impairment.

Funny side-note: we told the neuro that Flowerbelle was mostly deaf, but could hear certain frequencies. The vet whistled, and Flowerbelle turned. She said "She's not deaf!" We pointed out we said she could hear certain frequencies, but voices and the vacuum cleaner were not among them. :lol3:


She did have two revved up purring events yesterday - but much "lower key" than before. There was no out-stretched neck, and her nose wasn't working... it sounded the equivalent of having the car in neutral and stepping on the gas pedal for a few moments. So we don't know what to think. Obviously we wonder if they're NOT related... or this means fluid is building back up in her ears. :cross:

 

[goholistic]

She did have two revved up purring events yesterday - but much "lower key" than before. There was no out-stretched neck, and her nose wasn't working... it sounded the equivalent of having the car in neutral and stepping on the gas pedal for a few moments. So we don't know what to think. Obviously we wonder if they're NOT related... or this means fluid is building back up in her ears.

Oh, no! I sure hope not! 

  Maybe she just needs time for the meds to starting working fully. With all that pressure and fluid that was in there, she may just need time to recover.

Tons of vibes for Flowerbelle! 

 

[feralvr]

Gosh - I had no idea that this type of middle ear infection in a cat was so difficult to diagnose without MRI. That would be a really good thing to find out if they can check her middle ear externally by using a pressure gauge. :cross: The long term antibiotics may be in order and the good thing is that she is already on wonderful probiotics that will help keep flora good. I can only imagine the frustration and worry in not knowing IF these "gas pedal revving" purr/throat episodes are a good indication or not that her ear infection is clearing. You are doing THE ABSOLUTE best for her and she knows this :nod: and the fact that she is completely surrounded by great love. :heart3: Aw hun, I feel for you and for little Flowerbelle. I am cyber-blasting get better prayers/vibes to sweet little Flowerbelle. And loads and loads of bubble-hugs :lol3: coming to you.


:cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3::cross::balloon::sun::rub::heart3:

 

[ldg]

Well, nothing grew in the culture. So ... who knows. It could be like bladder "infections" where nothing turns up in the urine sample, but it is hiding in the bladder wall. This is the theory of the neuro, who wants us to keep Flowerbelle on the Baytril - likely for 2 to 3 months.

There is a method of determining whether or not there's fluid build-up - I couldn't really understand what it is because of her accent combined with a not-so-great phone connection. But we're to take Flowerbelle back for a follow-up in 6 - 8 weeks.

Basically.... we're just to keep track of her purring. :lol3:

The strange purring still happens - but it is less frequent, and different, as I described earlier.

Stan believes it's possible that fluid has been there all the time: the neuro doesn't think it's possible. But Gary and I are now wondering if part of the reason Flowerbelle purred 100% of her awake time the first few years of her life was because of that fluid in her ear. It's a very disturbing thought...

...and that's why we're taking the advice, and keeping her on the antibiotics. The MRI did indicate inflammation in there.

 

[feralvr]

Aw, sweetie. Certainly, it must be disturbing to think that her early constant purring was due to that fluid. I think it is the "thinking" part that tortures us so. It is heartwrenching when our little ones have a medical condition that cannot be pinpointed exactly and not knowing how long they have been dealing with it. Flowerbelle is a little angel and is such a lucky little doll that she has you and Gary loving her and caring for her. She could not be in a better place nor have a better life filled with great love than with you. I am glad to know that there is a way to test the pressure, even though you couldn't understand her words, , at least there is an option. AND, Flowerbelle has her own "purring journal" !! My goodness, how you care for her and for your other furkids. They struck pure gold finding you. :Golden Ornament: :Golden Scoop: Still, knowing that does not take away from always wanting more for them, something better for them when in all reality, they think and know deep in their soul that this is a great life, no matter what, with YOU. :heart3: :rub: TONS AND TONS :heart2: :sun:

 

[goholistic]

Thanks for the update. It is mysterious to say the least, and something that sure seems difficult to grasp. 

I'm not a vet, but I would say that I kind of agree with Stan. I mean, if the fluid was there and had no way to drain (like it was trapped in there), wouldn't that have caused even further inflammation about build-up of fluid? What always gets me with all these medical ailments is the question, "what came first?" In this case, was it the inflammation? Or the fluid? Did she get fluid build-up, which caused inflammation? Or did she have inflammation, which caused a fluid build-up. I'd like to think that knowing one or the other may help treat the problem, but I guess there's no way to know. These are the kinds of questions I ask myself that drive me crazy.

 

[goholistic]

Aw, sweetie.

Certainly, it must be disturbing to think that her early constant purring was due to that fluid.

I think it is the "thinking" part that tortures us so.

It is heartwrenching when our little ones have a medical condition that cannot be pinpointed exactly and not knowing how long they have been dealing with it. So, I guess you need a "purring journal".

Flowerbelle is a little angel and is such a lucky little doll that she has you and Gary loving her and caring for her. She could not be in a better place nor have a better life filled with great love than with you. My goodness, how you care for her and for your other furkids. They struck pure gold finding you.

Still, knowing that does not take away from always wanting more for them, something better for them when in all reality, they think and know deep in their soul that this is a great life, no matter what, with YOU.

TONS AND TONS

   Thank goodness you're here, Feralvr. I'm not as good at saying the nice stuff when it's needed, and you do it so well. 

  My analytical mind is my way of showing I care. 

 

[peaches08]

I agree with Stan. This is a common finding with asthma in humans. Try not to beat yourself up, no one is perfect in health. The gurgling/choking thing is what I would watch for (drainage).

 

[feralvr]

JUST :heart3: :sun: :rub: Hope Flowerbelle is doing well and hoping to hear a good update from momma. BIG HUGS!!!!!!!!!! :grphug: :grphug2:

side note to: Go Holistic - and thanks for your kind words. Glad to have you around here as well.

 

[sarah ann]

Was she ever tested for heartworms? One of the main signs is respiratory problems in cats.

One of my cats has suspected asthma- she sometimes vomits up her food.  If I keep her on prednisolone it doesn't happen, but she does better if I just keep the house clean. Then I don't need the prednisolone. 

If this is asthma you need to clean your house really well. Vacuum once a week, get a low dust cat litter, wash all sheets/blankets any cat beds you have on a weekly basis, be sure to use cleaners that are pet safe and non-irritating.  Mop the floors etc.  It is very time consuming cleaning for allergies vs regular cleaning.

 

[ldg]

   Thank goodness you're here, Feralvr. I'm not as good at saying the nice stuff when it's needed, and you do it so well.  :emba:   My analytical mind is my way of showing I care. 

I understand, GH, and do so much appreciate it.

Lauren.... :sun: :sun:

peaches, the purring thing isn't gurgling, and if drainage were happening, her middle ears wouldn't have been filled with fluid.

Sarah Ann, thank you. Yes, heartworm was ruled out (though the tests alone can't rule it out).

Her mild asthma isn't connected to this weird purring problem. She hasn't been having any asthma-related episodes (knock wood). I can't even remember the last time she had even a slight cough. But I'm allergic to cats and have asthma, so we take a lot of preventative measures, all of them would mitigate anything that would bother Flowerbelle. :rub:

Following the diagnostic trail led to determination of middle ear infection, which is being treated. Only time will tell if that is related to the revved up purr (which is still happening in the modified form).

 

[feralvr]

Only time will tell if that is related to the revved up purr (which is still happening in the modified form).

Well - time is all we have anyway. !!!!!!! So we will just have to wait and see how this all relates (or not) and I do hope that dear Flowerbelle IS feeling better and also knows how much she is loved. :rub: :heart3: :heart2:

 

[goholistic]

@LDG, your comment in the other thread reminded me that we haven't gotten an update on Flowerbelle! How is she?

 

[feralvr]

@LDG
, your comment in the other thread reminded me that we haven't gotten an update on Flowerbelle! How is she?

Checking in too. :heart3: :sun: :rub: :cross:

 

[ldg]

Her purring is back to exactly the way it was. It happens before most meals and randomly throughout the day. :dk: Sometimes it actually sounds like purring in reverse. :lol3:

BUT... she's really happy and incredibly playful, so maybe the ear infection was bothering her, and the antibiotics are helping. :dk:

I'm thinking we may go visit the cardiologist. She's never seen one, just had the cardiac ultrasound done by a specialist at the local vet, and read by the cardiologist. Maybe just make sure that the only heart problem is *just* mitral valve prolapse, and her high blood pressure unrelated. This is because I'm thinking her purring may be related to her heart or asthma. I know the vet doesn't think it's asthma-related because the pred had no impact... but the only next thing we can rule out is heart issues (even though those have supposedly already been ruled out).

She's not due back at the neuro until shortly before Christmas.

 

[goholistic]

Her purring is back to exactly the way it was. It happens before most meals and randomly throughout the day.

Sometimes it actually sounds like purring in reverse.

BUT... she's really happy and incredibly playful, so maybe the ear infection was bothering her, and the antibiotics are helping.

I'm thinking we may go visit the cardiologist. She's never seen one, just had the cardiac ultrasound done by a specialist at the local vet, and read by the cardiologist. Maybe just make sure that the only heart problem is *just* mitral valve prolapse, and her high blood pressure unrelated. This is because I'm thinking her purring may be related to her heart or asthma. I know the vet doesn't think it's asthma-related because the pred had no impact... but the only next thing we can rule out is heart issues (even though those have supposedly already been ruled out).

She's not due back at the neuro until shortly before Christmas.

LOL...I'm actually sitting here trying to imagine purring in reverse. I'd love to hear it! 

Well, if you notice that she is much happier lately, then it definitely sounds like something is working. That is great news! 

You're such a good mom to want to take Flowerbelle's health to the next level. 

  Heart issues really freak me out - in humans and in pets. They can go virtually undetected for so long until it's too late. Just curious...what made Flowerbelle have the cardiac ultrasound to begin with? Was it part of the initial steps in diagnosing her purring/revving issue?

 

[ldg]

No, she had high blood pressure. That turned up in... 20011, fall.

Flowerbelle, when rescued, was literally drowning from a horrible lung worm infestation. Stan (who saved her life) said she had maybe 2 to 3 days to live if that wasn't treated. She was also riddled with herpes - her eyes, ears, and breathing were a mess. She lost most of her hearing - she can hear some frequencies, and she lost one of her eyes to the herpes. (We fought for 7 months to save it, but had it out in the end. Should have had it out a LOT sooner. She's fine without it, and her energy levels went up about a billion percent. She was obviously channeling a LOT of energy into trying to heal that eye! ).

Stan explained to us that there may be repercussions from these problems later in life. Everyone was very surprised that herpes was not an ongoing problem for her. Knock wood, she's never had a single flare!

But she was coughing a lot that fall (2011), so we trundled off to the holistic vet, because I thought it was a hairball cough. Nope, she has asthma. At the time, it was bronchitis, actually, but a pattern of asthma could be seen on the x-ray as well. The bronchitis was obviously treated. She had two more bouts of bronchitis over 1.5 years.

But at that appointment, the vet heard a murmur and so took her blood pressure. I know pets can have murmurs at the vet from stress, but she was almost 9 at the time, and that had never happened before (she doesn't overly stress on car rides or at the vet - I think part of it is her lack of hearing). The vet put her on blood pressure medication after testing for and looking for heartworm. She also recommended a visit to the cardiologist for an ECG to look into the murmur.

At that point, we went to see Stan (we work with 3 vets at different practices), as he is her "GP." :lol3: (The vets all know about each other, and we keep files current everywhere). Stan also heard the murmur, and found her BP to be normal (on the medication). So we kept her on the blood pressure meds and went back to have her BP checked every few weeks at first. As the BP meds keep her stable and normal, obviously she needs it. Stan felt that as we were financially constrained at the time, the best first step would be the cardiac ultrasound. So we had that done at the local vet (just 10 minutes away), but the cardiologist Flowerbelle would see IS also the board certified cardiac radiologist that interprets these things. :lol3: So we did that, and it was determined to be mitral valve prolapse, not heart disease.

This still didn't explain the high blood pressure. At this point, the consensus of all the vets is that it's scarring of the arteries in her lungs from the lung worm infection, and potentially scarring from the severe herpes infection. But her blood work (knock wood) remains perfect, she'd been x-rayed up and down - and now the head and neck MRIs, so ... :dk:

All of that was prior to the weird purring, which started at the end of 2012, early 2013.

Her asthma is not being treated, because she's never had an asthma attack. Sometimes it is visible on x-rays, other times it isn't. I'm asthmatic, so we already take all the steps that would help her in our home... But when this weird purring started, we put her on pred to see if the weird purring would stop, meaning it is related to the asthama. Nope, no change. So none of the vets think the purring is related to asthma, and we took her off the pred.

I have mitral valve prolapse, and my heart "revs up" and has irregular beats from time-to-time. It would seem like it's happening a lot if her purring is related to that, but ... :dk: So given Gary is prone to anxiety attacks, and worries excessively about everything, we'll probably end up pursuing this potential now. :lol3: I just don't see how the neuro can be right and this is related to her ear infection. Either that, or the antibiotics aren't working.

...and that's another thing bothering me. She's on Baytril, and a dose higher than she should have for her body weight. In fact, thanks for asking about this, because I keep meaning to call Stan to ask if we can use a different antibiotic. (Some cats go blind from using Baytril, period, but it is mostly associated with long term use at higher than recommended doses. KNOCK WOOD).

Flowerbelle: the most expensive purr in the world.

But yes, I need to take more video. Because there are definitely differences in the purring episodes. And this "reverse purring" is a new one, that started a few days ago.

 

[angels mommy]

 
LOL...I'm actually sitting here trying to imagine purring in reverse. I'd love to hear it! 

Well, if you notice that she is much happier lately, then it definitely sounds like something is working. That is great news! 

You're such a good mom to want to take Flowerbelle's health to the next level. 

  Heart issues really freak me out - in humans and in pets. They can go virtually undetected for so long until it's too late. Just curious...what made Flowerbelle have the cardiac ultrasound to begin with? Was it part of the initial steps in diagnosing her purring/revving issue?

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing. ..... Purring in reverse.

I'm glad she is happy & active!

Yes, you are a very, very, very good Meowmy!!!!!!!!!!!!!