My Old kitties issues, chronic pancreatitis?

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Quote:

I was on Gabapentin too, and I quit taking it (dangerously) as it made me literally high like I was on drugs.  So I do worry about DeeJay taking it.  I have my Munchie on tramadol right now and it seems to be helping him.

Thank you for the information.  I gave her some Tramadol last night and this morning and right now she is going bezerk in my lap, she is feeling quite happy and not as grumpy today so maybe it was a fluke that it was making her act weird before.  It could have been a combo of things though but she was acting all freaked out and hiding under my couch, which is not like her.

I did not know gabapentin is an nsaid, so will it affect the liver like most do?  I know that it is used as an anti-seizure drug and for bipolar/depression.  I know that it affects nerves as that is what happened with me when I was on it.

I double checked and the Gabapentin is actually not an NSAID. I got mixed up with the Celebrex, which is. The Gabapentin is as you say, used as an anti-seizure med for the most part, but there has been increasing use to treat neuropathic pain associated with sciatica and degenerative disc disease in people. From what I am reading here, it sounds like a pretty heavy-handed drug to use for pain, unlike the pregabilin I received, which was great. I currently have a pretty bad pinched nerve (the doctors think) which so far can only be relieved with two aspirin? Naproxen hasn't worked worth a darn.

Glad to hear that Munchie is doing better on the Tramadol. A combination of things could have made the difference. When I think back on things, I had an epideral for pain management during the surgery, then received the pregabilin post-surgery and was switched to the Tramadol, for some reason. It felt really weird, like going from sunshine and light to suddenly feeling quite blue.

 

[goholistic]

As you may know from Boo's thread, he is on both Gabapentin and Amantadine right now for his feline hyperesthesia syndrome (FHS) and chronic pain of unknown origin. My vet said they don't usually prescribe Amantadine long term - usually for just three weeks. When the Aman runs out, we'll see how Boo does on just the Gaba. We did cut the Aman in half because the full dose made him irritated, restless, and vocal. He was keeping me up until the wee hours.

 

[cprcheetah]

I have been researching a ton and have come across a few things that I have found helpful.  After discussing it with my dad we are going to do a couple of things for DeeJay.

1-  Lowering the dose of Tramadol she can have 1-4mg/kg so I am going to lower her to about 2mg per kg giving her 1/4 tablet twice a day and see if that helps with the disphoria she is experiencing.

2-  Adding Amitriptylline to the regimen.  This will help with a couple of issues, her psychogenic alopecia and possibly pain from arthritis.

3-  If that doesn't help we will add Gabapentin. 

Still looking at other supplement options as well.  She just seems like she is in so so much pain.  I have started her back on the buprenex as well.

 

[cprcheetah]

So we are going to add Duralactin/Microlactin to both DeeJay and Munchies regimen, have been reading a lot about it and how it helps with arthritis.  I think I am just going to buy the human Microlactin and give it to both of them at about 200mg twice daily for DeeJay and 300mg twice daily for Munchie. 

 

[cprcheetah]

Really DeeJay?  It hasn't even been 3 days since her urinalysis was clear at the vet.  She hasn't eaten a normal amount since Saturday night, she is lethargic and very very painful in her tummy.  So off to grandpa she went when I got home from work.  She has a raging bladder infection with kidney infection to boot.  Seriously?  She is extremely painful so is going on both buprenex and tramadol for a few days.  I wish my poor kitties could catch a break.  Honestly, kind of tired of dealing with everything....it's making me weary.

 

[goholistic]

 
So we are going to add Duralactin/Microlactin to both DeeJay and Munchies regimen, have been reading a lot about it and how it helps with arthritis.  I think I am just going to buy the human Microlactin and give it to both of them at about 200mg twice daily for DeeJay and 300mg twice daily for Munchie. 

Let me know how this goes. Duralactin/MicroLactin are my "possible supplements" list, which is getting much shorter. I keep crossing things off when they don't go well!

Ugh... 

  How do you know DeeJay has another raging bladder infection?

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Very sorry to hear this news about Deejay. How is this even possible in so short a time period? Talk about a double whammy of bad luck. Poor baby. She seemed to be doing well from your reports the last time I checked here.

Is there a reason for both the buprenex and tramadol? They both manage pain, but from the little I have read the buprenex uses up most if not all the opiate receptors when in combination with others, which may result in little to no benefit from the tramadol. I don't want to alarm you but there is also potential for drug interactions between the two. Here is a page on potential info regarding these two medstaken together :
http://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/buprenex-with-tramadol-438-2033-2221-0.html

Lots of positive vibes and warm thoughts for a most speedy recovery

 

 

[cprcheetah]

 
Let me know how this goes. Duralactin/MicroLactin are my "possible supplements" list, which is getting much shorter. I keep crossing things off when they don't go well!

Ugh... 

  How do you know DeeJay has another raging bladder infection?

Will do.  I took her up to my dad's last night and he ran a urinalysis on her, she has a ton of protein and leukocytes with blood in her urine.  As well as WBC's and RBC's. 

 

[goholistic]

I'm so sorry. How frustrating, and poor DeeJay. Is this related to FLUTD?

 

[cprcheetah]

She has interstitial cystitis so that makes her more prone to infections.

 

[cprcheetah]

So we have changed gears, we are going to do the Gabapentin instead of the amitryptilline.  The amitryptilline can lower seizure threshhold and since she already has the mini seizures we don't think it will be a good idea.  we are going to compound the gabapentin ourselves putting it in some Pettinic........which is going to be a pain in the a## to give to her, she's decided she no longer likes taking medications in any form and fights me tooth and nail.  She won't eat the pill pockets any more.  The little stinker.  the poor thing is in so much pain tonight, she is hollering every time she moves   Going to take her back up to my dad tomorrow if she isn't acting better. 

 

[goholistic]

How's DeeJay today?

 

[cprcheetah]

She is not doing good at all, super onery, won't eat but maybe 1/4the of her normalamounts, I in the meatloaf positionn. I think she may be having a pancreatitis flare up. I am bringing her to work with me tomorrow so will see what they think.

 

[goholistic]

I'm so sorry. I hope this passes soon. Sending lots of vibes... 

 

[cprcheetah]

So she still is grumpy as all get out, but she is more active and ate all of her dinner (1st raw meal) which was about 2oz of chicken.  So I am happy about that.  I am taking her in to the vet tomorrow just to be sure and so she can get her adequan shot.  We are adding Hyaluronic acid to their regimen as soon as I can figure out a dose.  I found it at walmart in capsule form.

ETA:  She just asked to climb in my lap so she must be feeling somewhat better.

 

[goholistic]

It's always a sigh of relief when they are eating. So glad to hear she ate her first raw meal! 

 

 

[cprcheetah]

OMG so I took her to work today to have her Adequan shot.  I didn't put a not for them not to feed her, they fed her almost a whole can of i/d and she ate it ALL!  I think she's feeling better.  The injection my dad gave her must be helping her.

 

[mosimom]

OMG so I took her to work today to have her Adequan shot.  I didn't put a not for them not to feed her, they fed her almost a whole can of i/d and she ate it ALL!  I think she's feeling better.  The injection my dad gave her must be helping her.

Way to go, DeeJay!!!

 

[cprcheetah]

So I have been doing some research for a friend for her dog, and came up with the fact that DeeJay may be in stage 2 kidney disease.  Her CREA in December was 1.7 two weeks prior to that it was 1.8  Her BUN was 39 which is elevated.  The Creatinine shows normal on the vets bloodwork but according to Tanya's site http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm she is in stage 2 kidney disease.

 

Stage 2

Creatinine between 1.6 and 2.8

International values: Creatinine between 140 and 249

Percent Lost 66 - 75%

So does that mean DeeJay has kidney disease?  Going to talk to my dad tomorrow about it as he's asleep.  I'm freaking out a little bit here.  Her Specific Gravity in her urine the last 2 times has been 1.012 & 1.015 respectively so she is having dilute urine too.  UGH!  Why did I do this to myself?  She isn't doing too great lately, she is super grumpy and has a really tender belly.  She also has a hot spot on her stomach from all the licking she has been doing.  I'm wondering if her kidneys are hurting her and that's why she is chewing on her belly so badly?

 

[scarlett 001]

 
So I have been doing some research for a friend for her dog, and came up with the fact that DeeJay may be in stage 2 kidney disease.  Her CREA in December was 1.7 two weeks prior to that it was 1.8  Her BUN was 39 which is elevated.  The Creatinine shows normal on the vets bloodwork but according to Tanya's site http://www.felinecrf.org/how_bad_is_it.htm she is in stage 2 kidney disease.

So does that mean DeeJay has kidney disease?  Going to talk to my dad tomorrow about it as he's asleep.  I'm freaking out a little bit here.  Her Specific Gravity in her urine the last 2 times has been 1.012 & 1.015 respectively so she is having dilute urine too.  UGH!  Why did I do this to myself?  She isn't doing too great lately, she is super grumpy and has a really tender belly.  She also has a hot spot on her stomach from all the licking she has been doing.  I'm wondering if her kidneys are hurting her and that's why she is chewing on her belly so badly?

How old is DeeJay? We use the int'l values in Canada. I can tell you that 3 of my 5 senior cats (15 1/2 years old) have creatinine values of about 160 to 170. And the urine is a bit more dilute than it should be. So technically they are in lower end of Stage 2 CRF according to Tanya's web site. I find it so strange that the normal ranges for IDEXX go well into what is technically Stage 2 CRF.

What matters at Stage 2? If you are at the lower end of Stage 2, I really don't think that you would expect many symptoms. I have done some homework, and it turns out that although my cat's phosphorus values are in the normal range for lab, according to Tanya's site, they are higher than ideal. Higher phosphorus values can accelerate kidney destruction. So the first thing you want to do is look at the phosphorus values for you cat and determine if dietary action is needed (or phosphorus binders). Subq fluids are not needed until about Stage 3 or higher.

So in all my cat eating pickiness craziness, I am attempting to move these 3 cats to lower phosphorus foods that still have good protein levels. I feed wet and dry, and go with Senior Royal Canin for dry (lower phosphorus food with value of about 0.7%), and I just started a thread in Nutrition about my search for non-prescription low phosphorus wet foods. I have found one in particular that they like. According to Tanya's web site, if phosphorus levels are higher than desirable - then despite her preference for wet foods for kidneys, if a cat won't eat a low phosphorus wet food, she says the next thing is a lower phosphorus dry food - in her opinion, lower phosphorus dry food triumphs above higher phosphorus wet food (if the cat won't eat a lower phosphorus wet food) when getting a diet for a kidney cat with higher phosphorus levels. Turns out that all of the Science Diet wet foods at Petsmart are low phosphorus (based on her list and my own reading of their web site) so even if we don't like some of the ingredients, Tanya's site would still say this is in the best interest for a kidney cat. Authority Flaked Turkey is lower phosphorus and a hit with my cats. From what I gather, getting phosphorus levels in a good range is one of the most important things to slow down kidney destruction and therefore slow down the progression of CRF.

Hope that my own homework can help you out a bit!!