My cat may be allergic to RX urinary diet

[donnajean]

so, what to do ?

I have read comments about RX diets being crap, but, Spook had issues when I took him off of it (RC S/O) and tried feeding him Nature's variety Instinct LID  in Turkey, a little dry and tried to incorporate more canned. He developed Struvite crystals and had a ph of close to 8.0 .

Now I have noticed his fur isn't as soft as it had been over a year ago since starting the RX diet and he has had ear issues which he will scratch at his ears and a vet visit just a few days ago showed no infection, perfectly normal ears....

He also will suddenly lick at his paws or leg like he just got bit by something.... This tells me that possibly there is something in this food that he is building up a tolerance to, whether it be all the grains or the protein source of chicken.

So, we changed rx diet to  a new one that Hill's just came out with in their dry line of C/D , called Multicare urinary Stress, only because I thought it may help his stress levels and urinary issues.

It has supplements that support the nervous system to help supposedly cats with Urinary health issues such as Idiopathic cystitis which stress is suspected of contributing to  some urinary issues like cystitis and crystals in some cats.

he has been on it now for over three weeks and I haven't really noticed a big difference, as a matter of fact he has had a flair up of his Cystitis in the past three days (frequent urination producing small amounts)... He also gets Their Multicare c/d canned, but he isn't crazy about it .

Raw Food just isn't possible, tried it he wouldn't even go near it.

All canned food, trying, he gets it offered to him at least three times a day with a little extra water added to it and made into a gravy consistency.

I really would like to get him off of these RX diets, there is no RX diet that is hypoallergenic and also takes care of urinary issues except for RC that has  a hydrolyzed soy protein with chicken fat and it has a S/O index, however it just isn't acceptable or an appropriate diet for a cat.

I have been looking without any luck but have found Holistic select does have canned that is suppose to be lower magnesium, ash and strives for a ph of 6.4 I believe ?

Anyone have any suggestions ?

 

[ritz]

so, what to do ?

He also will suddenly lick at his paws or leg like he just got bit by something....

I'm sorry you and your cat are going through this. It does sound as though your cat has an allergy, perhaps to any one (or more) ingredient in the Rx food. I know you said your cat won't eat raw food. Can you elaborate? There are LOTS of raw food out there, including RadCat which is (I believe) single source protein. You can also feed home cooked food. There are lots of threads, articles in the raw & home cooked cat food forum.
You could try adding L-Methionin to his food but I caution you that you need to know the dose and make sure his pH level doesn't go too low. Are you able to test his urine? Other people more experienced in this area could help you. I do not add l-methionin because I can't test Ritz' urine (no way would she stand still) and because her pH seems normal, and is asymptomatic.
Also I noted with interest the part I quoted (hope I did this right): this sounds like it could be FHS (google for videos). Does he also kind of like bite this area, run up and down the hall, bite his tail; does his fur twitch? One of the possible causes of FHS is additives in food. If these symptoms sound familiar, look in the Health forum for additional information.
Ritz is prone to stress induced UTIs and has FHS. I feed raw (prey model raw). And try to de-stress Ritz as much as possible (I live a boring life, lucky for her). Feliway plug ins, add L-Theanine to her food.
Good luck.

 

[donnajean]

I tried Stella & chewys and Spook turned his nose up at it and I also tried Nature's variety Instinct Raw bites and he would not touch it.

I do have ph strips and check his urine which is fine right now between 6.25 and 6.5...

He does not pull his fur out nor have I noticed any bald spots anywhere on him.

I have two other cats, Boo, with probable IBD, he is on Hypoallergenic diet, mainly canned and I also have Peanut who is thankfully healthy at this time.

All the boys are around 4 years old.

I will have to purchase a refill on the feliway, have used it but don't know if it helps or not, perhaps a little.

I have used Bach's rescue remedy, no help.

I do know about L-Theanine, my mom was giving it to my dad who has Alzheimer's, it seemed to help with his anxiety for awhile and calmed him down..

I just think Spook has an allergy to something that was in the RC S/O and perhaps something that is in this Hill's RX ... This tells me that it could be anything from the protein source of Chicken that is in both the Hill's and was also in Royal Canin to Brewers Rice in both or the corn gluten meal, in both.....I know though that If it is a food allergy and the allergen is removed it can take up to 6 weeks and we are on the 4th week (close to it).....

But if it is the corn gluten meal, chicken or brewers rice we are sunk till I can find a way to totally go canned with a totally different food since there is no RX diet out there that is both hypoallergenic and also addresses urinary health issues...., which really stinks.....

 

[ritz]

Yes, that does stink. (I'm a medically prescribed food plan and am now reading labels obsessively. A lot of foods look good on paper until I read the one ingredient I can't have!)
Rescue Remedy didn't help. I use to use three Feliways (they are expensive!), but now using yeo, and may reduce to one. No significant change in Ritz' behavior.
Have you checked out this site for kitties/cats with ibd? I've read it's a really help site.
Just for grins, have you tried "accidentally" putting a piece of raw meat/fish in their food bowl and seeing what happens. Can use a topper such as fish flake or parmeasan cheese.

 

[sarah ann]

You can add methionine to the cat food. My cat has terrible allergies. He was on Instinct LID turkey but it also caused his ph to be around 8.0.

He did okay on instinct with me adding 400 mg of methionine to his food morning and night.   In order to add methionine you need to either take the cat to the vet for a urinalysis (and repeat urinalysis) or be able to get a urine samples to monitor at home with ph strips.  My cat is potty trained so I can get urine samples at home easily.

The dosage of methionine varies depending on what food it is, and depending on the cat itself.

The symptoms he is having sounds pretty mild. My cat will itch his face completely raw (with giant oozing sores), he will get acne buildup, he will scratch above his eyes, get ear infections etc. He will try to rip his entire face apart- under his chin, under his ears, above his eyes, next to his nose, all will get itched until bloody. It is not a pretty sight.

If I switch his food to something he doesn't tolerate, that will happen within 24 hours.

He is now on allergy shots and doing better, except for the itchy eyes.  He is allergic to dust mites, grass and weeds. Definitely allergic to beef and/or carrageenan.

If those are the only symptoms you are seeing, and unless his ears are turning red (or getting sores or infected), I would just stick to the prescription diet.

My cat is on amitryptyline as it works for allergies and helps with urinary issues. He did have an immediate improvement in urinary issues when started on it.

This is what my cat looks like when having an allergy attack... Only it is only localized to his face and under his chin.

http://www.vetnext.com/search.php?s=aandoening&id=73323361251 214

Or he looks like this:

http://vetbook.org/wiki/cat/index.php/File:Atopy4.JPG

As far as allergies go, the minor itching you are seeing could be something other than the food (fleas, contact allergies, inhaled allergies etc).

 

[goholistic]

I will preface by saying that urinary issues are not my strong suit, but it is for this reason that threads like this interest me and help me learn more about them. Boo did have to go to the ER for a urinary blockage caused by crystals many years ago while on an free-fed, all-dry diet (provided by my parents when I still lived at home), but never again since going grain-free, feeding mostly wet food, buying a water fountain, and putting an additional water bowl in the master bathroom upstairs.

In doing a quick search, I found several instances where others have complained that Nature's Variety raised their pet's urinary pH. Both the Hill's c/d dry and canned have added DL-Methionine, which, as mentioned above, is a urine acidifier and helps keep the pH down. Nature's Variety canned does not add DL-Methionine, so perhaps the "target" pH was too high for Spook and/or perhaps mineral content was too high because of the added clay.  

  Some pet food companies will provide what their target pH is for their food, and it seems you are already looking into this.

In this thread (post # 6), a TCS member provides target pHs for common cat foods, but he/she does not state where they got this information or if it was self-compiled, but it could have come from the FLUTD Yahoo group: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/235017/blue-buffalo-indoor-cat-food

This study has useful information about diet, struvite formation, and urinary pH:

Feline Reference Values for Urine Composition http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/6/1754S.full

I also found this on Yahoo answers. The first response by "Kat" is a very good one:

How can I lower my cats PH in his urine? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080806112919AALjUrX

Given the ingredients in the Rx foods you are feeding, I wouldn't doubt that Spook is reacting to them. If I was in your situation, I would probably work my way to eliminating dry food and feeding high protein, low-carb, grain-free foods that target an ideal urinary pH. If you're feeding canned, this information may be available on the pet food company's website, or you may have to make a direct inquiry. During the transition, I would probably buy urine test strips to keep an eye on the pH.

I understand your concern and fear in not wanting urine pH to creep up again, and I can appreciate why this takes precedence over itchy ears. It all sounds easier said that done, especially if Spook is fussy with food. I do wish you the best of luck and I hope you can find a solution that satisfies all challenges.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

The regular formulas of Nature's Variety DO contain Methionine and Methionine-Cystine. It is the LID varieties that don't, or at least there is no information listed on the website. FYI, DL-Methionine is the synthetic version and L-Methionine is the natural version. Its best to use the natural version, but only with the guidance of your vet, as dosage is VERY important as @Ritz mentioned previously..

 

[goholistic]

 
The regular formulas of Nature's Variety DO contain Methionine and Methionine-Cystine. It is the LID varieties that don't, or at least there is no information listed on the website. FYI, DL-Methionine is the synthetic version and L-Methionine is the natural version. Its best to use the natural version, but only with the guidance of your vet, as dosage is VERY important.

With the exception of the Pork Formula, none of the other NV canned formulas have Methionine listed on the ingredients list.

ALL of the NV dry formulas have Methionine added.

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/cats

 

[catsallaround]

I have used vitamin c to lower the ph.  You need to be sure to not go to low as you will cause the other form of crystals.  I have not had to do this in a few years so can not remember the dose.

you can look into a urinary acidfier.  Keep in mind boys will block fast so at first sign his box is not being used normally go to vet do not wait at all.  

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2142&aid=2729

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
With the exception of the Pork Formula, none of the other NV canned formulas have Methionine listed on the ingredients list.

ALL of the NV dry formulas have Methionine added.

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/cats

NO. Check the ingredients list here in the chicken for instance : http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/chicken. Methionine is listed down on the right. Its the same list for the other regular varieties.

 

[goholistic]

 
NO. Check the ingredients list here in the chicken for instance : http://www.naturesvariety.com/Instinct/cat/can/chicken. Methionine is listed down on the right. Its the same list for the other regular varieties.

Are you referring to where it is listed under "Amino Acids"? If so, that is the nutrient analysis, not ingredients. They are providing you with the percentage of naturally occurring Methionine in the food. Methionine is technically an amino acid, so chances are there will be some percentage of it naturally occurring in most foods.

Methionine that is added to the formula above and beyond what is naturally occurring has to be listed on the ingredients list.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

Well, something seems amiss as it doesn't make any sense that the Pork variety should list DL-Methionine but not the other varieties. The Pork variety also does not feature any nutrient information, but the other varieties do? I am inclined to think that the website information is wrong, or incomplete.

Awhile back I contacted Royal Canin to ask them why the DL-Methionine was missing from the ingredients list on the website for the S/O formula. The rep for RC was supposed to get back to me with an answer. The next time I checked the website, the DL-Methionine was there?

 

[sarah ann]

The problem is that cat food companies are only required to meet the aafco requirement for methionine. This means that there is no requirement for them to balance the diet to prevent urinary stone formation. The amount of methionine varies and most pet foods do not list the amount on their website.

Certain companies have looked into this. Mainly purina, royal canin and science diet. Other companies have followed. Only some of the high protein more natural diets are not balanced. I'm not sure if this is because they aren't doing experiments or what the issue is.

It appears the only way to find out is to do a feeding trial of each brand and check urinary ph.

I have heard that blue buffalo can also cause issues. Yet I fed purina for years and never had any problems. Thankfully.

My only cat who got crystals was on Instinct due to his allergies. I really think it was the food that caused him to develop crystals.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

The problem is that cat food companies are only required to meet the aafco requirement for methionine. This means that there is no requirement for them to balance the diet to prevent urinary stone formation. The amount of methionine varies and most pet foods do not list the amount on their website.

Certain companies have looked into this. Mainly purina, royal canin and science diet. Other companies have followed. Only some of the high protein more natural diets are not balanced. I'm not sure if this is because they aren't doing experiments or what the issue is.

It appears the only way to find out is to do a feeding trial of each brand and check urinary ph.

I have heard that blue buffalo can also cause issues. Yet I fed purina for years and never had any problems. Thankfully.

My only cat who got crystals was on Instinct due to his allergies. I really think it was the food that caused him to develop crystals.

Yes, I would agree that cat food companies are not required to include methionine. I think most do but the amount of this will vary from food to food.

There are different ways to address the issue of urinary crystals. The diet can be naturally high in Methionine and low in magnesium and phosphorus, feature additional acidifiers such as Methionine or Vitamin C, or as Royal Canin has done, feature additional methionine, and an elevated sodium level which encourages cats to drink more. The importance of water in the diet cannot be understated as it IS an important part of the solution to ensure that the bladder gets flushed to prevent crystals from accumulating. I had the choice between RC Urinary S/O in dry or wet form when Thomas was found with crystals. It was a no-brainer in selecting the wet canned for the high moisture content. That said, I wasn't comfortable with the high sodium level, given the suggestion that cats can remain on this food indefinitely.

Quote:

 
I have used vitamin c to lower the ph.  You need to be sure to not go to low as you will cause the other form of crystals.  I have not had to do this in a few years so can not remember the dose.

you can look into a urinary acidfier.  Keep in mind boys will block fast so at first sign his box is not being used normally go to vet do not wait at all.  

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2142&aid=2729

Good points. I recall reading this article which has some good information and suggestions regarding the use of acidifiers.