- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #141
-
Too many ads? Join our community of cat lovers now to reduce ads by 90%! Click here to join for free!
More Concerned for Boo
- Thread starter goholistic
- Start Date
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #143
I guess when they looked at the x-ray/ultrasound report along with the urinalysis results, it didn't really lead anywhere since we just keep getting the same thing (a little protein).
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2014
- Messages
- 432
- Purraise
- 99
Hi;
It says on the bottom of page one under conclusions that they see early degenerative change of kidneys. Also the "stuff" in the bladder. Also talks about the spleen. The spine could be causing the pain, but if it was my cat I would never touch another anti-inflammatory again.
Did the glucosamine help? I know it doesn't help some cats, and the actual research done is not all that great with results.
I am just thinking here, and this is just me throwing stuff out there, but... The one kidney smaller than the other, even though slightly, combined with the early degenerative changes, and the ***((only in my opinion, not the rest of the world))** not normal super concentrated urine like most cats, would make me thinking this is kidney as well as the back. I also would keep an eye on the spleen. When are you to recheck the ultrasound? If you do try to get in with a DACVIM to do it. I say that because ultrasound is such a subjective thing you really want someone who specializes in it to do it. It is great that this group will read it but better yet if they do it them selves. Just my opinion.
It sure seems like you have gone way above and beyond to make sure your cat has absolutely everything. You need a great Feline Parent award.
Sorry, late and I am goofy.
It says on the bottom of page one under conclusions that they see early degenerative change of kidneys. Also the "stuff" in the bladder. Also talks about the spleen. The spine could be causing the pain, but if it was my cat I would never touch another anti-inflammatory again.
Did the glucosamine help? I know it doesn't help some cats, and the actual research done is not all that great with results.
I am just thinking here, and this is just me throwing stuff out there, but... The one kidney smaller than the other, even though slightly, combined with the early degenerative changes, and the ***((only in my opinion, not the rest of the world))** not normal super concentrated urine like most cats, would make me thinking this is kidney as well as the back. I also would keep an eye on the spleen. When are you to recheck the ultrasound? If you do try to get in with a DACVIM to do it. I say that because ultrasound is such a subjective thing you really want someone who specializes in it to do it. It is great that this group will read it but better yet if they do it them selves. Just my opinion.
It sure seems like you have gone way above and beyond to make sure your cat has absolutely everything. You need a great Feline Parent award.
Sorry, late and I am goofy.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2014
- Messages
- 432
- Purraise
- 99
Are you still trying to switch Boo's diet? If it was me I would feed him anything he wants to eat at this point and try not to switch things right now. When cats feel ill after eating a certain food they can associate the food with not feeling well and not want that food again. So, sometimes you have to try something basic like the gerber first foods beef lamb chicken turkey, whatever and see if he will eat it. If he only wants to eat dry food I would let him eat dry. It is better he eat the wrong food than not eat the right food.
I just read through all the posts in this thread.
I did notice that his glucose was only 97. Doesn't he get stressed at the vet? Cats get stress induced hyperglycemia. I wonder why his was only 97. Maybe it wasn't spun right away, but I would expect it to be around 200 just from the stress alone.
It is good that you know what is normal for your cat and have noted the changes in behavior. Very important.
If it was me I would see the internal medicine specialist. I think there is something going on that maybe your vet just doesn't have the knowledge to deal with. Don't take that wrong please. I only mean that when you or I go to a doctor we see depending on the problem a doctor for that area, With veterinarians they are expected to know so much about so many different areas. It would be like with us, getting a root canal by the same doctor that also prescribes contact lenses, delivered the first born child, and treated a skin condition, and treated your newborn's upper respiratory infection, and also removed a corn from your uncle's foot, and prescribed drugs for your neighbors bi-polar disorder, and gave your roommate a good hair cut and a wash. And not only did all that but also could treat monkeys and do all the same for them as well. Nobody can have that much information and keep up with the ever changing medical world. Perfect example. I worked for an IM vet for a long time. I had a rescue kitten with severe itching etc. IM vet did a skin scrape and said there were no parasites etc. Simple test. So, he got one of the dermatology techs, not doctors, to come over and check. Within a minute I found out the kitten had scabies, I was given the treatment etc. and that was that. So, the IM doctor wasn't an idiot, he just didn't treat skin. Had no idea how deep to go for a skin scrape etc. So, that is why I think it is important to see a specialist. I know when I worked with IM often we would get cases in that had been totally treated for something other than what they were. Sometimes it was to late, sometimes it wasn't .
So. I am sorry if I am sounding wrong because I mean no disrespect. I like your cat allot and he reminds me of my sniffling little Rusty.
With the eye, if he did have herpes it could have been latent brought on by the immunosuppression of the prednisolone. Just a thought.
I just read through all the posts in this thread.
I did notice that his glucose was only 97. Doesn't he get stressed at the vet? Cats get stress induced hyperglycemia. I wonder why his was only 97. Maybe it wasn't spun right away, but I would expect it to be around 200 just from the stress alone.
It is good that you know what is normal for your cat and have noted the changes in behavior. Very important.
If it was me I would see the internal medicine specialist. I think there is something going on that maybe your vet just doesn't have the knowledge to deal with. Don't take that wrong please. I only mean that when you or I go to a doctor we see depending on the problem a doctor for that area, With veterinarians they are expected to know so much about so many different areas. It would be like with us, getting a root canal by the same doctor that also prescribes contact lenses, delivered the first born child, and treated a skin condition, and treated your newborn's upper respiratory infection, and also removed a corn from your uncle's foot, and prescribed drugs for your neighbors bi-polar disorder, and gave your roommate a good hair cut and a wash. And not only did all that but also could treat monkeys and do all the same for them as well. Nobody can have that much information and keep up with the ever changing medical world. Perfect example. I worked for an IM vet for a long time. I had a rescue kitten with severe itching etc. IM vet did a skin scrape and said there were no parasites etc. Simple test. So, he got one of the dermatology techs, not doctors, to come over and check. Within a minute I found out the kitten had scabies, I was given the treatment etc. and that was that. So, the IM doctor wasn't an idiot, he just didn't treat skin. Had no idea how deep to go for a skin scrape etc. So, that is why I think it is important to see a specialist. I know when I worked with IM often we would get cases in that had been totally treated for something other than what they were. Sometimes it was to late, sometimes it wasn't .
So. I am sorry if I am sounding wrong because I mean no disrespect. I like your cat allot and he reminds me of my sniffling little Rusty.
With the eye, if he did have herpes it could have been latent brought on by the immunosuppression of the prednisolone. Just a thought.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2009
- Messages
- 3,104
- Purraise
- 66
My cat is food controlled diabetic and I know he does not get that stressed as I have done reading before vet, in office on my machine and got numbers very close to their reading and gone home and got about same number. The vet had talked about this and I wanted to see how off it would be. Now this cat is a hand raised cat that is a bit calmer but still just throwing it out there that some cats do not care much.
My old diabetic had similar numbers at the vet too. She was friendly and liked the vet.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #148
Thanks for your thoughts, @Quiet. I'm kind of thinking along the same lines as well - early degenerative kidney stuff with progressed arthritis and IVDD. I'm sure when you read through the thread you realized Boo's symptoms were all over the place. Early on when he was having weird trembling, twitching, and breathing episodes, I was concerned that it was seizures or a heart condition. My vet said it was from pain, which didn't even cross my mind. Since we've been addressing pain, those have nearly stopped. His FHS episodes have nearly vanished, as well, although I do wonder if the warmer weather helps with that. I stopped the glucosamine for a time because it is derived from shellfish and I was eliminating allergens. I am in the process of researching joint supplements and may try him on it again. I don't know when we will do another ultrasound. Sebastian needs another check-up and ultrasound done, too, so I need to spread out the funds.
Doing my best, here.
I'm not offended by your comment at all. I like our vet, but they are very traditional/Western. If I am going to pursue another ultrasound and/or opinion, I will definitely consider an internal medicine specialist.
Boo is doing okay on the foods I'm giving him right now. It was the FF and Friskies stuff that was giving him allergic reactions, so I switched him to premium foods without chicken, beef, or fish about a month ago and there has been improvement. The vet told me not to go back to those foods unless we really need to because he could have had GI reactions as well as skin. I tried to reintroduce beef last weekend, and his ears got bright red and he started scratching his neck like crazy, so beef is likely a problem. I'm letting that settle until I try to reintroduce chicken or fish. I have a fancy little trick of a topper that gets him finishing his food every time.
His stools are better without the dry. He's prone to horrible constipation. So while he would eat these foods better, they just cause another problem. I'm trying to get him feeling good, you know, in hopes that he'll eat better. I think something is starting to work (Chinese med, maybe?) because he has been in better spirits and finished all his food last night and this morning without a topper.
I started him on digestive enzymes, the Chinese med, and a higher dose of omega-3s.
As to the glucose, I think this is normal for Boo. His blood work from November showed it was 101. He doesn't get overly stressed at the vet. They put us in the "window room" so he was calmly looking out the window at the vet's office while we were waiting for the doctor to come in.
Boo is doing okay on the foods I'm giving him right now. It was the FF and Friskies stuff that was giving him allergic reactions, so I switched him to premium foods without chicken, beef, or fish about a month ago and there has been improvement. The vet told me not to go back to those foods unless we really need to because he could have had GI reactions as well as skin. I tried to reintroduce beef last weekend, and his ears got bright red and he started scratching his neck like crazy, so beef is likely a problem. I'm letting that settle until I try to reintroduce chicken or fish. I have a fancy little trick of a topper that gets him finishing his food every time.
As to the glucose, I think this is normal for Boo. His blood work from November showed it was 101. He doesn't get overly stressed at the vet. They put us in the "window room" so he was calmly looking out the window at the vet's office while we were waiting for the doctor to come in.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #149
So what's worse: Being miserable from food allergies? Or being miserable from constipation?
The reason I ask: Boo is now borderline anorexic. He should be getting at least 160-180 calories a day, and I'm lucky if I can get him to eat 100-120 on his own after HOURS of encouragement and a tower of toppers. He was doing okay on the wet foods I was giving him for awhile with toppers, but now even the toppers are not helping. He's been on a no chicken, no fish and no beef wet diet (no dry) for over a month to get his allergies under control. There has been improvement in that respect. But he's turning his nose up at everything now, or taking a few licks and walking away. However, he'll beg for Caesar's dry food and cheaper wet food and would likely eat those readily.
My options: 1) Give him the wet foods he wants and have him suffer from scratching his neck, face, and ears until they bleed and has no hair is left on his ears. 2) Give him a limited ingredient / novel protein dry food he likes that would not upset his food allergies and help keep weight on, but would bring on dreadful constipation. I would continue to offer as much of the hypoallergenic premium wet foods that he will eat, but chances are he would prefer and consume mostly dry. I've been giving him a few novel protein Orijen treats (100% freeze-dried boar and duck) to help boost calories throughout the day. He likes those.
Opinions?
He's very boney and sides are sunken in. I'm pissed that we don't know what's going on. I'm sad that what I'm doing is not helping. He does not act like he is in pain lately, so I think we are managing that well. He's getting around (still jumps really well and makes good clearance), grooming, and using the litter box. He'll occasionally have an outburst of energy and chase Caesar around or one of his favorite toys. But his appetite SUCKS.
The reason I ask: Boo is now borderline anorexic. He should be getting at least 160-180 calories a day, and I'm lucky if I can get him to eat 100-120 on his own after HOURS of encouragement and a tower of toppers. He was doing okay on the wet foods I was giving him for awhile with toppers, but now even the toppers are not helping. He's been on a no chicken, no fish and no beef wet diet (no dry) for over a month to get his allergies under control. There has been improvement in that respect. But he's turning his nose up at everything now, or taking a few licks and walking away. However, he'll beg for Caesar's dry food and cheaper wet food and would likely eat those readily.
My options: 1) Give him the wet foods he wants and have him suffer from scratching his neck, face, and ears until they bleed and has no hair is left on his ears. 2) Give him a limited ingredient / novel protein dry food he likes that would not upset his food allergies and help keep weight on, but would bring on dreadful constipation. I would continue to offer as much of the hypoallergenic premium wet foods that he will eat, but chances are he would prefer and consume mostly dry. I've been giving him a few novel protein Orijen treats (100% freeze-dried boar and duck) to help boost calories throughout the day. He likes those.
Opinions?
He's very boney and sides are sunken in. I'm pissed that we don't know what's going on. I'm sad that what I'm doing is not helping. He does not act like he is in pain lately, so I think we are managing that well. He's getting around (still jumps really well and makes good clearance), grooming, and using the litter box. He'll occasionally have an outburst of energy and chase Caesar around or one of his favorite toys. But his appetite SUCKS.
Makes you wonder if Boo is a reincarnated skinny rock star, huh? I had a horse like this, so I feel your pain.
What does he take as far as medications? What CAN he take as far as medications? I ask because if Miralax is a no-go for him, obstruction may be too big a risk. Or if no antihistamine will help, then infection from shredding himself is too much.
What does he take as far as medications? What CAN he take as far as medications? I ask because if Miralax is a no-go for him, obstruction may be too big a risk. Or if no antihistamine will help, then infection from shredding himself is too much.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #151
The only prescription he is on is Gabapentin. The other things he's on include l-lysine, fish oil, probiotics, digestive enzymes, Chinese herbs, Miralax, and Pepcid AC. Still working on a joint supplement. He's still on Miralax, even on an all-wet diet. I was sent a Chinese herb blend for constipation, but I stopped it because it was making his stools too sticky, but I suppose I could always start that up again if he needs more help with constipation. I think I could control his constipation better than I could control his food allergies. I'll give him sub-q fluids at home if I have to. I tried giving him a very small dose of Mirtazapine to kick-start his appetite, and that did not go well. It made him breathe really fast, and his appetite had only increased for the first 12 hours (it's supposed to last for three days). I knew the effects would wear off, but I was borderline in taking him to the ER.
What to do...what to do.
I don't have any real good suggestions. Just wanted to say I'm sorry you're going through this with Boo. I know how hard it is to get a kitty to eat.
One thought does occur to me, though: Will Boo eat the homemade food you prepare for Sebastian? Maybe even some plain cooked meat without supplementation? When Abby wouldn't eat the food I was transitioning Abby and Tim to in February, I started adding plain, cooked turkey. I nearly pulverized it and blended it in, because otherwise she would pick it out and leave the cat food behind. And that's when I started adding warmed broth, to enhance the smell. It worked! Gradually I reduced the meat and broth, and now she eats the food straight out of the can without any supplementation. She'll even eat it out of the refrigerator as long as I add warmed water.
I guess I would suggest trying to make the food smell as strong as possible, and adding hot water is great for that. That might be his attraction to the foods that are causing the allergic reaction: A very strong smell. I've noticed the better-quality foods don't smell so strong. If his sense of smell is off, for whatever reason, this could be part of why he won't eat.
Honestly, without seeing Boo, I don't know which is worse, allergies or constipation. I am terrified of constipation due to two terrible experiences with Tim, but I know allergies present their own problems. If you are comfortable managing his constipation, then it might be worth giving him some nutrient-dense dry just to get him to eat.
One thought does occur to me, though: Will Boo eat the homemade food you prepare for Sebastian? Maybe even some plain cooked meat without supplementation? When Abby wouldn't eat the food I was transitioning Abby and Tim to in February, I started adding plain, cooked turkey. I nearly pulverized it and blended it in, because otherwise she would pick it out and leave the cat food behind. And that's when I started adding warmed broth, to enhance the smell. It worked! Gradually I reduced the meat and broth, and now she eats the food straight out of the can without any supplementation. She'll even eat it out of the refrigerator as long as I add warmed water.
I guess I would suggest trying to make the food smell as strong as possible, and adding hot water is great for that. That might be his attraction to the foods that are causing the allergic reaction: A very strong smell. I've noticed the better-quality foods don't smell so strong. If his sense of smell is off, for whatever reason, this could be part of why he won't eat.
Honestly, without seeing Boo, I don't know which is worse, allergies or constipation. I am terrified of constipation due to two terrible experiences with Tim, but I know allergies present their own problems. If you are comfortable managing his constipation, then it might be worth giving him some nutrient-dense dry just to get him to eat.
You may be onto something there.
I had success putting weight back on Cocheezie after her constipation problem with Wild Calling Duck.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #156
Tried it. Won't touch any of it. Even the cooked pork which is really meaty smelling he won't eat. I've tried warming the food in the microwave, adding hot water, stinky toppers. I even put the NV dry food that he likes in a coffee grinder and used the powder as a topper. This was "magic dust" for awhile and always got him finishing, but not anymore (but he still wants the whole NV kibble). I've topped with freeze-dried treats (turkey, boar, duck, etc.). He acts interested, but just smashes everything down and still doesn't finish. I tried parmesan cheese, catnip, goat whey. I've tried what seems like 50 kinds of canned foods, including Wild Calling Duck (thanks for the suggestion @cocheezie). I've traveled across towns to get brands that are hard to find. I bought a bunch of single cans online to try.
It's frustrating. I've told others and myself that a picky cat can be a sick cat. But part of me thinks that Boo is just being really fussy and stubborn ever since I stopped the cheaper foods cold turkey. If I give Caesar Fancy Feast, Boo tries to get at it. When I give Caesar his little bit of dry food at night, Boo tries to get at it. I'm going to wring his neck.
Putting on my "cat psychologist" hat (though can anyone truly understand the mind of a cat?) ... What if you feed Caesar the good stuff, too? In my experience, cats always want what the other is eating. Which is why I went to such effort to get Abby eating what I needed to feed Tim. Even now, as I give Abby more variety, I can see them both eyeballing and sniffing towards the other and have to watch Tim and sometimes block him from pushing Abby away from her plate. Maybe if those two guys are offered the same thing, Boo will eat it?
Re: The NVI ground dry as topper: What if you mix it in? Then add a bit more on top?
Re: The NVI ground dry as topper: What if you mix it in? Then add a bit more on top?
Last edited:
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #159
Is Fortiflora a poultry product? I'm researching some "palatable" dry foods, but I'm just cringing at the thought.
I do give Caesar good stuff. Actually, EVO 95% Turkey & Chicken wet food is Caesar's favorite and pretty much the only thing he'll eat with enthusiasm (but Boo won't eat it). Every once in awhile I'll throw in something different for Caesar so that he doesn't get sick of the same thing. Boo won't eat what I give Caesar (unless it's the FF I throw in once a week) and Caesar won't eat what I give Boo.
Did this, too!
Have you tried kitten food? It has more calories.
What about B12 shots? That's supposed to be good for both appetite and constipation.
What about B12 shots? That's supposed to be good for both appetite and constipation.
