Moistening Dry Food?

[socksy]

What?  More replies than you were expecting? 

 

[duckdodgers]

What?  More replies than you were expecting? 

Haha, just a bit more in depth   It's a good discussion for everyone though!!

 

[eddieb]

I was just looking through for a similar reason, and noticed the reply about Salmonella in 2012. Surely if you are using clean water as supplied in a good public health minded society (Tap water in many countries) the only increased risk from salmonella would be from using dirty bowls or having poor general  hygiene  in the home.My home is spotless and the cats food bowls are washed after each meal, so where would an increased risk come from? The kibbles themselves, I doubt it so how would it increase?

 

[ldg]

Yes, the kibbles themselves. Just google "cat food recalls" and you'll find most recalls are related to contaminated dry food. The CDC recommends not feeding dry food in the kitchen, not storing dry food in the same pantry as human food, not washing dry food bowls or utensils in the kitchen sink, and not handling dry food with anything other than a scoop of some sort.

Because dry food if moistened and left out has the potential to become bacteria soup, this thread explored how best to moisten wet food and how long it can be left for kitty to consume before it becomes a potential health hazard.

 

[eddieb]

Thanks for the very quick reply and the link to the report. regards

Eddie

 

[nala04]

For my kitty I feed both wet and dry food. The dry food I feed is Grain free and it's Called by Pet Curean. No by products or any garbage like corn.

With my cat she's been having trouble with dry kibble, if I don't moisten it a bit, she'll throw it up ten minutes later and it's digested into a soupy mixture like if I threw up after eating.
When I moisten it, she eats it as soon as I put it down for her. With her wet food she gets a full small can a day and I always give her it on the morning while the kibble is at night. She always has a fresh bowl of water and I guess I'm one of the lucky ones because my cat loves drinking water as long as it's from a stainless steel bowl (which it always is). She goes to drink it every time I refill it and after every time she eats. It's usually empty by the end of the day. I also always provide semi moist treats and such to help her get her moisture content. Once in a while I also give her fresh dried coconut bits and pumpkin for added fibre in her diet to help her deal with hair all processing and to settle her tummy if she has an digestive issues.
She's four years old and crazy active. Runs around whenever my doors is open in the morning she'll sprint from one room to another. Everything I give her is high quality and I avoid anything with bi products or crap I don't know or don't approve of like guar gum or carrageenan.
Cats have been domesticated over years, but are still considered obligate carnivores. Meat has to strictly be in their diets and they can process grains, but it's better if you give them grain free, veggies are good for them as well.
Over years of domestication the average pet cats diet has become less of a strictly meat basis. I work at a pet store and I had to take nutrition courses and such to work there. Also whenever I get a pet I do numerous amounts of research into any possible thing that could hurt or effect them.
When you say that these bacteria grow from soaking in water, how long does it take and does it matter if the dry food is left in the water or if the water is quickly drained after soaking for barely a minute? I only soak her food because she can't process it without it being softer. It irritates her stomach if it's completely dry which is why she vomits it. I've been looking into adding raw into her diet so it's a balance of all three choices, but I haven't found a raw brand choice that I am fully knowledgable on and approve of yet.
When you say that the toxins grow on dry foods because of the grain content, does that count with grain free dry foods? Because everything I feed her is grain free.

 

[otto]

Why not just stop feeding the dry all together since she has so much trouble with it? That Pet Curean dry seems full of unnecessary things, potatoes, other fruits and vegetables, including spinach (cats should never have spinach), tapioca. Very high carb, I would imagine.

Just give her three meals of wet food everyday.

 

[gravekandi]

Wow reading some of these responses...wowwww haha.

Any who adding water to kibble is fine, just don't leave it out longer then half an hour due to bacteria. Have you tried Fancy Feast Classics? Or Friskies mixed grill (poultry platter too I believe) They are grain free and cheap good if you want to squeeze in more wet food. I too am a student with a kitty so shelling out lots of money on canned doesn't really work out for me either...I'm very fond of couponing and getting really good deals on things so I don't end up spending as much money. If you would like I could send you to some links of great cat coupons Are you going to go Black Friday shopping? Some pet stores (such as PetSmart) are having sales on kitty food, worth looking into and investing and stocking up for a bit so you don't have to worry.

 

[ldg]

Cats have been domesticated over years, but are still considered obligate carnivores. Meat has to strictly be in their diets and they can process grains, but it's better if you give them grain free, veggies are good for them as well.

Actually, cats lack digestive enzymes necessary to utilize much nutrition from most veggies. They can't turn beta carotene into vitamin A, for instance. They can't turn ALA into EPA and DHA, and they can't convert LA into AA.

Over years of domestication the average pet cats diet has become less of a strictly meat basis. I work at a pet store and I had to take nutrition courses and such to work there. Also whenever I get a pet I do numerous amounts of research into any possible thing that could hurt or effect them.

Vets take nutrition courses and still recommend foods that are plant-based proteins and high carb.

Cats' digestive systems haven't evolved (thus the high incidence of kidney disease, diabetes, and IBD. Other food related diseases are likely due to the (lack of) quality of the food and the highly processed nature of the food), and current research makes that clear.

An analysis of feral cat diets (those without access to human food), published 2011: Estimation of the dietary nutrient profile of free-roaming feral cats: possible implications for nutrition of domestic cats http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=8404219 (The full report is available).

A study of pet cats by Waltham at the beginning of 2011 that demonstrates our pets still eat a diet that (essentially) matches the macronutrient content of feral cat diets (bear in mind the food all tastes the same, so they don't choose based on anything other than the protein/fat/carb content of the foods). Geometric analysis of macronutrient selection in the adult domestic cat, Felis catus http://jeb.biologists.org/content/214/6/1039.full#R22

2012: Short article Proper Nutrition and Lifestyle Essential for Cats has links to the published documents: http://animalendocrine.blogspot.com/2012/04/proper-nutrition-and-lifestyle.html

Dr. Mark Peterson (top small animal endocrinologist that discovered the condition of hyperthyroid in cats) discussing the nutritional needs of cats: (A referenced article) http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/se...0-05:00&max-results=20&start=14&by-date=false

From 2002, an explanation of the evolutionary nutritional need of cats: Idiosyncratic nutrient requirements of cats appear to be diet-induced evolutionary adaptations http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...7588&fulltextType=RA&fileId=S0954422402000070

And Dr. Zoran's earlier piece (also 2002), The Carnivore Connection to Nutrition in Cats http://www.catnutrition.org/uploads/6/4/4/5/6445971/zorans_article.pdf

When you say that these bacteria grow from soaking in water, how long does it take and does it matter if the dry food is left in the water or if the water is quickly drained after soaking for barely a minute? I only soak her food because she can't process it without it being softer. It irritates her stomach if it's completely dry which is why she vomits it. I've been looking into adding raw into her diet so it's a balance of all three choices, but I haven't found a raw brand choice that I am fully knowledgable on and approve of yet.
When you say that the toxins grow on dry foods because of the grain content, does that count with grain free dry foods? Because everything I feed her is grain free.

The toxins that are the risk with grains are aflatoxins. Kibble in general is at risk for salmonella.

If the dry food upsets her stomach, why feed it? :scratch: Or why not at least try a different type that doesn't make her sick? The Friskies pate foods have some rice, but as they're low carb, it isn't much. They typically don't break the bank.

 

[uvoufo]

DuckDodgers, I just joined the site to-day and do not know whether you have found a solution to your query. In order to have my 16 cats (I like to humour myself to believe that I "own" them) increase their water intake, I have devised a trick that has worked wonderfully and has the blessing of my veterinarian: I dump a tin of tuna or jurel in a big pan of water (maybe 5 litres) and hand-squeeze the juices out of the fish in it and then pour a measure of the water of this concoction (maybe half a litre) in a long plastic plant tray . They look forward to having this along with their dry food and sometimes I have to replenish the tray up to three times in a day. I keep the unused part in the fridge and warm their daily rations to lose the cold in the microwave oven. My vet has suggested feeding the fish to the young ones, but I just feed it to my dog, who just loves it. I hope it works for you too. (Mind you, they also drink their "untreated" water!!)

 

[duckdodgers]

 
DuckDodgers, I just joined the site to-day and do not know whether you have found a solution to your query. In order to have my 16 cats (I like to humour myself to believe that I "own" them) increase their water intake, I have devised a trick that has worked wonderfully and has the blessing of my veterinarian: I dump a tin of tuna or jurel in a big pan of water (maybe 5 litres) and hand-squeeze the juices out of the fish in it and then pour a measure of the water of this concoction (maybe half a litre) in a long plastic plant tray . They look forward to having this along with their dry food and sometimes I have to replenish the tray up to three times in a day. I keep the unused part in the fridge and warm their daily rations to lose the cold in the microwave oven. My vet has suggested feeding the fish to the young ones, but I just feed it to my dog, who just loves it. I hope it works for you too. (Mind you, they also drink their "untreated" water!!)

I probably haven't looked at this thread in well over a year, haha.  Either way, since my old cat died I've been feeding my younger cat almost exclusively wet food with some dry mixed in.  It's much easier now that I don't have my old lady and her issues to deal with.  Works well for us, but seems like a reasonable suggestion!

 

[david ash]

Amazing thread!

So here's my idea:

Yes, dry food has bacteria. How about putting it in a bowl and pouring a small amount of boiled water over it? Voila! Kills surface bacteria, and water is quickly absorbed into the kibble, so dehydrating the cat and introducing bacteria are both longer an issue.

One could then add a little cold water to help cool it down, and let it stand for 15 minutes to come down to body temp.

As long as it gets used within half an hour or so, there certainly won't be a notable growth of fresh bacteria. And soaked kibble will not culture bacteria any faster than opened canned food.

As far as these ideas of wet kibble still being dehydrating for the cat, and causing bloating... I think there is a pretty clear fault of logic here. Of course  kibble soup isn't going to dehydrate the cat. It was dry, it would  have, but now it has even more moisture  than canned food. And yes, when a cat eats dry food, the food can swell inside the cat & cause bloating, but if the food is already  swollen when the cat eats it, this isn't going to happen.

C'mon people. Apply some critical thinking here.

 

[amok]

I feed my cats a grain free diet, half canned (wet food) and half dry. I add 10ml (2 teaspoons) of water twice a day and I feed them 3 times a day on a schedule.

My cats eat the dry food within 3 minutes. Even with the added water, they still drink water from their water bowls daily. Adding water to their meals does not discourage them from drinking from their water bowls. In fact, I place a couple water bowls around the house and see them drinking from all of them regularly.

I regularly perform the dehydration test where you lift the scruff to see how quickly it returns to the body. My cats are hydrated with wet noses and a well-groomed appearance.

I've only seen the benefits of adding water, especially for one of my cats who was not a heavy water drinker.

 

[heathermc]

I am also searching for an affordable grain free wet food but to feed along side the dry.  The amount of wet the companies say to feed my cats would cost me about $9 per day of wet food.  And that's IF I found one that was only $1.50 per 6 oz. can which I have not.  They suggest two cans per day of the 6 0z can to meet the requirements my cat's weight demands. I can't afford to spend  $27 per week just on the cats when I also have dogs, kids, etc..  Here's the thing.  ON the bag of Blue Buffalo dry kitten kibble I bought (I grabbed it before I started researching cat foods and making myself crazy) It says in the feeding instructions that one option is to add warm water to the kibble.   I wonder why they say we can do that if according to some of the commentary it's about the worst thing in the world we can do for the health of our cats. All I know is, I'm doing it and my kitten is eating it up.  Oh and I've found a couple less expensive wet foods that got decent reviews such as Trader Joe's and Dave's.  Trader Joe's is very affordable but I haven't bought it because it also has carageenan, a topic for another thread.

 

[donutte]

I am also searching for an affordable grain free wet food but to feed along side the dry.  The amount of wet the companies say to feed my cats would cost me about $9 per day of wet food.  And that's IF I found one that was only $1.50 per 6 oz. can which I have not.  They suggest two cans per day of the 6 0z can to meet the requirements my cat's weight demands. I can't afford to spend  $27 per week just on the cats when I also have dogs, kids, etc..  Here's the thing.  ON the bag of Blue Buffalo dry kitten kibble I bought (I grabbed it before I started researching cat foods and making myself crazy) It says in the feeding instructions that one option is to add warm water to the kibble.   I wonder why they say we can do that if according to some of the commentary it's about the worst thing in the world we can do for the health of our cats. All I know is, I'm doing it and my kitten is eating it up.  Oh and I've found a couple less expensive wet foods that got decent reviews such as Trader Joe's and Dave's.  Trader Joe's is very affordable but I haven't bought it because it also has carageenan, a topic for another thread.

If you are feeding both wet and dry, it's better to add water to the wet food to give them the extra water. That's really the only reason to add water to the dry food. Now if you absolutely know they are going to gobble up what you give them very quickly (within a half hour) it probably isn't a problem adding it to the dry if that's the only way your cat will eat it. But if your cat eats dry without it, then just add it to the wet.

I do a mix of wet and dry also, btw. Only my two older cats are getting fed the canned more than twice a day (the one has CKD, the other is fat and on a diet). The younger ones, for now, are mostly on dry, but get canned twice a day.

 

[fyllis]

The 'recommendations' listed on both kibble and wet foods is just that... a recommendation by the manufacturer.

I have two neutered males. My DSH (Keeker) weighs 14.2 pounds and my Maine Coone (Kricket) weighs 13.9 pounds. Both are 21 months old and are very sleek, muscular and healthy. 

The recommended amount on their dry food (according to their size and weight) is 3/4 to 1 1/4 cups per day. They are free-fed their kibble, but I have measured it and, between the two of them, they consume about 3/4 cup together. That is only half of what the manufacturer recommends. 

On their wet food, it is recommended they eat one 3 ounce can per 4 pounds of body weight. That would be approximately 3 1/2 cans of wet food each every day. They share one 3 ounce can in the morning and another three ounce can at night  That is less than 1/3 of the recommended amount. (I don't set a timer or feed them on a strict schedule. I give them their wet when they let me know they want it. That way I know they are hungry and will eat it; and there are times the two of them together don't eat all of it).

I add about 2 ounces of water to their wet food at each feeding and they drink plenty of water from their fountain - between 1 1/2 to cups per day. 

They get occasional treats 3 to 4 times per week. I never moisten their kibble. If your cat(s) isn't tolerating the dry kibble, try getting one that has a soft/moist center.

I've been around or have had cats for more than 50 years and it is my belief that a cat will eat what it needs (unless, of course, there is a medical condition that interferes with that). Some days they eat a bit more; others, a bit less. But there are days when I feel like eating a full 5 course meal and other days when just a cup of soup satisfies me. My cats are not malnurished by any means and I don't worry about it when they don't always finish or when they ask for a little more than usual.

As long as they are eating, get plenty of fresh water (They LOVE their fountain and their water intake almost doubled since using it!) and remain healthy I am a happy Cat Momma! 

Regarding your cat(s) getting enough fluids to keep them hydrated, you might want to do what I do - I often use canned chicken breast, tuna and salmon (packed in water) to make salads or whatever. I will give them the juice from the can and they lap it up! If there is extra left over (when I use more than one can in a recipe), I pour it in an ice cube tray and freeze it, then thaw it or just drop a cube in a bowl for them when they need a snack. That way they are getting extra fluids and a little extra omega oils throughout the week.

 

[bonzoso]

wow, I'm reading these answers and it does disturb me that some people will profess false information to push their point. Yes, to all. A wet food diet is far preferred to a dry diet, BUT, no to those who say adding water to dry is NOT more beneficial to the cat's hydration than not. I am a scientist (chemist) and I have many colleagues in the biological sciences and veterinary sciences. Without a dissent, this fact is true. As long as the wetted food is not allowed to stand more than 30 minutes before consuming, to avoid organism proliferation. Again, wet food is preferable, but if you are insistent upon dry food, for whatever reason, Adding water to it IS preferable, as long as it is not left out to grow dangerous organisms.

 

[norezen]

Its simple chemistry and/or biology. Its called osmosis. If the ratio of dissolved solid to water is higher than the surrounding cells, then the water will migrate to the cells that have the lower content of water. Provided, of course, the cells have a permeable membrane. Which most cells do. Its your choice to decide which cells those are. Are they going to be your cat's bodys' cells or are they going to be the cells of the food you feed them?

The lower the content of water, the more water will be extracted from the surrounding cells. The cells or solutions are attempting to reach homeostasis which is where everything is the same ratio of water to dissolved solids. So if your cat's cells have more water in them than the food they eat, then your cat's cells will give up water to moisturize the food they ate and vice versa.

So as far as whether or not the water you add to your cat's food will be of use to the cat, the answer is a simple yes. As long as the ratio of water to solids is higher than what the cat's body has, the cat will absorb the water, not withstanding biological processes that could extract the water through other means.

That means that the lower the content of water in the food you feed your cat, the more water your cat will require from other sources in order to be healthy.

What concerns me, is that the spikes in hydration/dehydration from feeding a cat kibble may cause issues for their kidneys. Kidneys require a certain amount of water to operate correctly and a sudden drop as the result of dehydration brought on by consuming a substance such as kibble may cause the formation of kidney stones.

Think about it. If there are minerals present in the kibble which want to chemically bond (which there usually are), in a diluted enough enough solution they probably wont bond to form solids that the cat's body cant process. That is a normally hydrated cat.

But if the solution is not diluted enough (as a result of osmosis), then it does present the minerals the opportunity to bond into solids. Solids that are solid enough that the cat's kidneys can't process or pass. And even if the cat has access to water, the spike in dehydration as a result of the cat eating a bunch of dehydrating food at once might not give the cat enough time to consume the water needed to process it. And do you really think your cat will think, "oh I've eaten a lot of kibble today, i better hydrate?" By the time the cat experiences thirst, some deleterious effects may have taken place.

And that doesn't even cover the difficulty the kidneys have processing proteins without enough water which may not be acutely life-threatening, but can still be a problem.

 

[leo cat]

 
wow, I'm reading these answers and it does disturb me that some people will profess false information to push their point. Yes, to all. A wet food diet is far preferred to a dry diet, BUT, no to those who say adding water to dry is NOT more beneficial to the cat's hydration than not. I am a scientist (chemist) and I have many colleagues in the biological sciences and veterinary sciences. Without a dissent, this fact is true. As long as the wetted food is not allowed to stand more than 30 minutes before consuming, to avoid organism proliferation. Again, wet food is preferable, but if you are insistent upon dry food, for whatever reason, Adding water to it IS preferable, as long as it is not left out to grow dangerous organisms.

As a fellow biochemist I must corroborate this. If the food is clean and the water is clean, where would dangerous bacteria be coming from? At room temperature for 30 minutes, there's no way trace amounts of harmful bacteria present in the food will multiply to dangerous levels. I spent two years growing bacteria in a research lab - they need warm temperatures and sufficient time, or just long amounts of time (many hours at least). 

On the subject of whether or not adding water to dry food will reduce your cat's intake of water, just think about it. If the food is 0% water by mass, and then you add an equal mass of water to the food, the food is now >50% water. Water is water. There's nothing special about water from canned food as opposed to water from your tap. It's still two hydrogens and one oxygen.

Lastly, I asked my vet about adding water to dry food, and she said it's a good idea as long as they're eating it.

 

[bryony taylor]

I'm just going to leave this here ...

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedaily...r/5-dos-and-donts-mixing-your-pets-food-32070