Kitten Aggression - 13 Weeks

[Columbine]

iluvlucy15 Just a reminder - all personal information (email address/postal address/telephone number) should be shared via Private Messages NOT in the main forums

 

[theforgottencat]

Well you naughty kitten owners are not alone. I had to flat out ask the vet "Is this typical kitten behavior or is he the devil?!"

 

THANKFULLY at 4 months Echo is getting a bit more calm but still gets so MEAN when he is done playing. He has his own room in our house so I don't know why he doesn't just go in there and relax once he's had enough. haha if only he'd reason with me

. Instead of walking away, he will ATTACK me (or whoever is closest) with his teeth and claws making a mean kitty noise, letting me know he's done. I try to pay close attention to his mood to put him away before it reaches that point and 80% of the time I can catch it. The other 20% there might be blood LOL. I just keep telling myself he will grow out of it since his behavior has already improved a bit. He was part of a feral litter and came to me at 4 weeks so I know he wasn't socialized the way he should have been. He's a very special kitten and I love him dearly but man, can he be a pain sometimes! Hang in there you guys, you aren't alone!! 

 

[relienna]

Gah! It's so nice to hear that other people are having similar issues!
 

Well, I mean, I guess it's not that nice. 'Cause it sucks that we are having to deal with stressful times! But, it's comforting to know I am not alone! (As you guys have pointed out!) 

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• relienna
• Aug 11, 2015

 

[relienna]

I also wanted to add that play time at night seems to really help him!

It's not a 100% fix, but he's much more calm 75% of the time after a good romp-around session in the evening!

Between 9:00 and 10:00pm I run him around for a good 15-25 minutes with some sort of "string on a stick" toy variation! He has an octopus-bell toy (I hate it, it's sooo loud, but he loves it haha) and a more feathery option! We run at top speed around the room, teasing him and finally letting him catch it and kick the crap out of it! I stop the second he starts panting! (Cat's aren't supposed to pant, means he should stop whether he wants to or not)

I then feed him a portion of tasty wet food! (He loves Blue Wilderness Salmon. Only wet food he'll eat almost the whole 1/4 can!) and give him a few chewy treats.

Then I let him lay around while I get his bathroom set up for the night and entice him inside with a few more treats! After that he is quiet for the night and a little less coo-coo bananas in the morning! But, just like people, sometimes he IS crazy in the mornings anyways and will jump on Zach's face while he is trying to sleep while I put my make up on, or will attack my legs when I walk across the room to grab my scrubs from the laundry.

Like I said before, it's a slow process. >.< I think I am fully being tested on my patience levels! lol 

 

[tissa]

I am having the same exact problems with my kitten (who also was taken from mommy VERY early). Only difference is mine NEVER leaves me alone. It affects my work (((((

I love him so much (he was extremely sick when i got him and i spent a ton of money, energy, and heart to get him back to life) and i don't want to give him up. I just hope he will outgrow this...

 

[relienna]

Today was a good day. Although he did draw blood when he went to attack my leg after I got out of the shower. THAT put him in time out for a good 10 minutes.

And then tonight after play time and tasty wet food - I went to put him in his bathroom for the night and he flipped out in my hands and bit the crap out of my thumb.

I scruffed him, forcefully told him "no" and hissed at him. This time I looked deep into his eyes and was like "Listen here, bub. I'm in charge, not you. Get OVER yourself." He just made a little grumble in response.

I promptly plopped him in the bathroom and said "goodnight" in a not-so-happy tone. lol >.<

Now my thumb hurts as much as my feelings =/

I know you aren't supposed to take it personally, but sometimes it's hard not to. 

 

[relienna]

 
Well, can I just say - that if we lived near each other, I would think we had sibling kittens. I have just spent time reading every single one of your posts and the reply and I am dealing with the EXACT same thing you are. AND, they are even approximately the same age. The only difference is that my kitten is already spayed. She was feral and found abandoned on the side of the road and alone. So I have no idea how much sibling or mama time she got, which is why I think she is having so much aggression. Everything you have tried, I have as well. For the time-outs I was putting her in a room, not her crate but yeah, pretty much everything is the same. As much as it sucks, it sure does help knowing I am not alone because, I have cried a lot this weekend. I love this little girl of mine and I want nothing but to love her and help her realize that this is her life now but she is a bit of a hellion to say the least. The main things that I am having troubles with are:

-ankle/hand biting

-scratching me (not furniture)

-jumping on cupboards

Now, the cupboards one I am not overly concerned about, however, she jumps from my Island to the stove and THAT worries me. I have already made a previous post about this. I have tried aluminum foil, 2 way tape, water bottle (last resort!), No Stay spray and nothing works. In fact, in regards to the water - SHE LOVES WATER. So she welcomes the spray. She is always looking to play in the water. However, the cupboards is not as big of a concern as the biting and aggression.

I too feel that maybe this was not the right thing for me to do. Originally I was looking for a 1-2 year old cat but fell in love with my little Lucy at first glance, and didn't hesitate. I hardly even questioned, I just did it. In May I lost a cat of 7 years to a tumor, it was unexpected and while I waited almost 2 months to get another, I feel like in a way I was trying to fill a void. I thought getting a kitten would help form a stronger bond. And we are bonding, but very minimally. She does do head butts with me, and cuddles once in a while on her own time. And I know now that some cats just aren't cuddlers, but it would be great if she would at least calm down in the biting department.

I have been consistent with my methods, the stern "no's" and making a noise or grabbing a toy to distract her from the biting, but I too feel like I cannot get her to tire. I sometimes have 1-2 hour play sessions in the evening, then feed her treats (catch, kill, feast method) but it doesn't change much. She has toys, a cat tree, and I feed her the healthiest of food and treats as I wanted to ensure I started this kitten off right.

I live alone, I am gone for the standard 8-9 hours a day while at work, but I am home pretty much every evening and she gets much full attention. I have no kids, I live in a small'ish apartment and I don't have the option of getting a second cat. So, do you see the similarities? HAHA Like I said, as I was reading, I was like - wow - I'm NOT alone! Maybe we should be feline friends! HAHA

But I'd love to talk and work together - maybe we can help each other. I dont mind sharing my email address. One thing I did just invest in, is the book called 'think like a cat' and I just started it but it was recommended to me. Have you read or heard about it?

Hi! I'm sorry I didn't reply more in depth before! I have been working like crazy!

I wouldn't mind sharing information at all, and it's comforting to hear that I'm not alone! Like I said in another post, my boy is improving - but it's taking soooo much time and patience. It's a constant struggle of 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Bleh.

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend in May =[ It's never easy losing a furry family member.

I have not heard about or read the book, but I wouldn't mind looking into it!

I hope both our little creatures can grow out of this semi-nightmare >.<

 

[iluvlucy15]

 
Hi! I'm sorry I didn't reply more in depth before! I have been working like crazy!

I wouldn't mind sharing information at all, and it's comforting to hear that I'm not alone! Like I said in another post, my boy is improving - but it's taking soooo much time and patience. It's a constant struggle of 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Bleh.

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend in May =[ It's never easy losing a furry family member.

I have not heard about or read the book, but I wouldn't mind looking into it!

I hope both our little creatures can grow out of this semi-nightmare >.<

I've been busy too! I get it! summer is always insane so no worries.

I felt like last, Lucy was improving. BUT, I feel again that we are also taking steps backwards. I was really positive last week and now again, I am feeling a bit defeated. I hate the feeling, cause I love her and I want it to work no matter what. I've invested time, energy, money, love, I've been doing the research (reaching out here, reading books), everything! To try and find some way of teaching her. Everything I do, even though some say it works, I feel like I'm failing at. I live alone, so this is a solo effort, which can be taxing at time as well. One thing that concerns me, is that a local rescue (other than where I rescued Lucy), noted today that ferals after 4 weeks are almost impossible to tame. Mine was found at 12-16 weeks, feral. That is a big difference.



I dunno... just so scared she will never come around.

 

[Columbine]

Don't lose hope. An ex feral may always be a little wilder than a domestic born cat, but that doesn't mean that they can't be tamed at all, or that they can't learn to trust people. There's no reason why Lucy can't learn to be fully trusting of you...even if she stays a little warier of strangers than some cats are.

Remember - working with animals is NEVER straightforward. It's all to easy to fall into the trap of thinking 'we got x far today, so tomorrow should be x+1' etc. Animals don't respond like machines - 2 steps forward, 1 step back (or even 2 steps forward, 10 steps back!) is far more realistic. You'll get there in the end...it just takes LOTS of time and patience.

 

[iluvlucy15]

Don't lose hope. An ex feral may always be a little wilder than a domestic born cat, but that doesn't mean that they can't be tamed at all, or that they can't learn to trust people. There's no reason why Lucy can't learn to be fully trusting of you...even if she stays a little warier of strangers than some cats are.

Remember - working with animals is NEVER straightforward. It's all to easy to fall into the trap of thinking 'we got x far today, so tomorrow should be x+1' etc. Animals don't respond like machines - 2 steps forward, 1 step back (or even 2 steps forward, 10 steps back!) is far more realistic. You'll get there in the end...it just takes LOTS of time and patience.

Thanks, I appreciate the 'push'. She may always be a little wild, for sure. Being feral and a kitten, that was abandoned alone - I really have all the odds against me it seems! I find she is trusting of me, and doesn't really mind strangers, but it's the play aggression that concerns me. I can say 'no' sternly 7-9 times and she does nothing in regards to stopping. She will continue to kick me with her back legs, while her teeth are wrapped around my hand, and her front paws are as well. It gets to the point where I do need to move (causing her to want to bite more), or I have to try and remove HER from me.....

How many times should I say no before I remove her?

After removing her, should I ignore her? What if she just keeps attacking? (hands, feet etc).

I eventually end up caving, and put her in a time-out, which I know isn't probably the best way but I have to - for my sanity! or for the sake of my skin! LOL

 

[Columbine]

Have you tried hissing firmly at her? Being ex feral, she'll definitely understand cat communication! Remember you have to mean it - the energy you give out is just as important as the vocalisation or reprimand.

Be extra careful to watch her body language when petting, and stop at the first sign of overstimulation. It's also a good idea to keep a suitable toy to hand (something like a Kong kickeroo is ideal) , so you can give her something appropriate to get out her energy on. It goes without saying to be sure to avoid all hand/foot play, and to only use wand toys (the longer the better) for interactive play.
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[iluvlucy15]

Yup. I definitely have tried hissing at her. I've tried trying to divert her attention away too with toys. This is the strangest cat - ever. I can confirm! LOL Because everything I've been advised, or read, I've tried. The hissing, doesn't bother in the least. Keep in mind, I have no idea how long she was feral, before being rescued by a volunteer group in my city. I know she was only rescued by them, 2 weeks before I got her, but no idea how long she was feral. I'm aware of the over-stimulation and I definitely do not engage in hand/feet play as I know that is a big no-no. As mentioned earlier, in previous posts - I do live alone, have no children and so the evening - it's all about me and her, so she is getting a ton of playtime. At first, I thought maybe too many - but my vet said on Friday, she doesn't think there is such a thing. So I do play with her every chance I can get in between life! LOL, but she definitely gets 2 solid 15 minute session a day with me. Ill check out those articles!

 

[Columbine]

It sounds like the key will be closely monitoring Lucy for the first hint of overstimulation and either switching to play or walking away at the first tail twitch. I'm sure you will find an answer...I love how committed you are to working things out

 

[iluvlucy15]

Thanks! I am trying hard. I need a companion and friend as much as she does...it will be 4 wks tomorrow, so with each passing day I'm sure she is retaining something. It will all be worth it I'm sure. It will be great when that day comes!

 

[Columbine]

4 weeks is no time at all in animal retraining terms. I bet you've already come a long way from where you started...its just that your final goal will take a little (or a lot ) longer. Hang in there - you will get there!

 

[relienna]

It is DEFINITELY a 1 step forward and multiple steps back process!

Gage was doing better for 2 weeks and then for 3 days in a row he was almost completely unmanageable! My boyfriend has blood on the sheets where his ankles lay at night! He jumped up and grabbed my thigh when I got out of the shower and drew blood. 

Water bottle didn't work, time outs didn't work. When I reprimanded him after attacking Zach's legs - 5 minutes later he ran at me and tried to attack my arm. If I wasn't wearing a sweater, he would have drawn blood.

This behavior is COMPLETELY unacceptable and my boyfriend and I got into a huge fight discussing rehoming Gage.

As hurt as I was about it, I couldn't really have a good argument. Sadly, my boyfriend Zach isn't as animal-savvy. His whole view is "You said you would train him! Train him to like me! I have tried what you said and it doesn't work!"

I have explained that that isn't how it works, but meh.

We had a long conversation where Zach has stated if his behavior doesn't start to improve post-neuter we are going to have to find him a home where the people are home enough and have more time and patience to train him properly.

But, then magically yesterday Gage only tried to bite us like twice and the rest of the time was perfectly behaved roaming around the apartment and keeping himself entertained...?

I have given up trying to understand. I'm just going with it day by day. Hissing at him when he is bad. Playing with him very energetically to wear him out and hoping that neutering calms him down enough. lol His neuter is scheduled for about 2 and a half weeks from now.

I don't want to rehome him, but we can't live in a small apartment with a cat that shreds our legs to pieces. D=

 

[relienna]

Side Note: I have started having Zach be the one who gives him his wet food every night after play. Gage will follow him and let him pet him while he eats the food. We've only tried it for 2 days so far, but I plan to give it a trial for a couple weeks to see if Gage starts respecting him more at all!

 

[iluvlucy15]

Thats good about Gage! Hopefully things come around or change for the better. I can tell how much it saddens you to think about rehoming him. BUT, I get it. I've had those thoughts. But I love her so much. And as much as she has some bad days, she has some amazing ones. And some amazing moments. So, on that note, I too am going to start taking it day by day. I think she has come a long way, I just dont see it, like someone earlier mentioned. For feral, it could be way worst. She is not drawing blood on me as often as she is you guys, but I understand why you're scared cause I felt the same way with Lucy. When she goes - she goes. Insane! Time outs seem to help her though, and I got her a Kong toy for treats/play and she seems to love. Nice and interactive when gone!

 

[iluvlucy15]

Update for tonight. Lucy was doing so good and then I gave her a really good play session, fed her wet food (I do this only twice a week, other times after play she gets treats), and after she ate she attacked my hands repeatedly. I was sitting there, doing nothing. Watching TV. And pretty hard bites. I just got up, left the living room and came to my room to go to bed. These are the frustrating and sad moments. I don't want to have to do that... But ****. This is when I feel I'm doing things wrong

 

[relienna]

He came up and wanted pets tonight, and then quickly turned into "the other cat".

Whyyyyy? Why is the biting still happening?? It's been 2 and a half months >.< Ughhh.

I'm losing patience.