Jealous Cats

[shadowsrescue]

Do visit Moutside as often as you can.  Yet also give KitKat equal time.  I liked to use lots of treat rewards for both.  When I would visit Marvin, I would always bring a few treats to offer when I first arrived.  I would save a few to give when I left.  I then would give my resident kitty a few extra treats and play time too.  

As for room swapping time, you want to start slowly.  Also be sure that you can handle ( pick up) Moutside so that if  you sense fear or need to quickly get her back to her room, you can do so.  I liked to start with just another room and not my entire house.  That is too overwhelming.  I used to take Marvin to my bedroom and then I allowed him out into the hallway.  It took weeks before I allowed him to go downstairs.  I liked to start with just 5-10 minutes at first.  Always rewarding and offering treats.  Then back to the safe room and more treats.  You can do this more than once a day if all goes well.  If Moutside is afraid and doesn't want to leave the room, just leave the door open for a bit.  It sometimes takes them awhile to want out.  Yet do be sure you can safely get her back to her room.

 

[sdufrene]

Thanks again for all the guidance. KitKat gets more than his share in attention[emoji]128515[/emoji]. If I sit, he's there. He sleeps cuddled un my arms. If I stand, he raises his front legs to be picked up. He often rides on my shoulders while I'm working, washing dishes, etc. Spoiled rotten. So he demands attention.

Moutside is not afraid to leave the room I think because I've only let her out when Joe and I were alone. My daughter, who is a regular animal-whisperer, rescues pit bulls, etc. went into Moutside's room to sneak a peek at her. Moutside hid and hissed.

So new people may eventually be a problem? Or once cats acclimate to the home, they're better with that sort of thing? Is there anything I should be doing for her now to circumvent that stranger danger feeling once she's free to roam about?

 

[sdufrene]

Okay guys. Are we ready to bring our formerly and still a little bit feral Moutside fully into the family?

KitKat and Moutside are getting along famously. No hissing or charging anymore. They eat dinner together every night, still separated by the gate. They have nuzzled noses a few times thru the gate to boot. Everytime I go into Moutside's room, KitKat now tries to bite through the metal gate. And he sits and whines at her door when its closed. Not all the time, but often. Once, as I was entering the room, KitKat bolted past me, ran up to Moutside then bolted out. It was so funny. Its been about six weeks now. More importantly, its been over 2 weeks since any aggressive behavior has occurred. So should we attempt a face to face or am I missing steps?

 

[catpack]

I think it would be fine to do some supervised face to face time! I'd keep the visit short at first and make sure you separate before any negative behavior happens. Reward afterwards.

 

[tarasgirl06]

I would think so, following CatPack's suggestions.  "Experts" recommend 2 weeks, so 6 weeks is very adequate, especially with 2 weeks since any aggro has occurred, as you say.  Keep us posted, and good luck!  Hoping to hear of KitKat and Moutside in a *catpile* in winter! 

 

[sdufrene]

Okay, not terrible, but not great news. I was so worried about Moutside being the aggressor, since KitKat has been my sheltered baby. But its the exact opposite! Mouts is as sweet as can be and KitKat has become a real pill!

When I first started the face to face, Mouts would just ignore KitKat. He just seemed curious, but stayed out of her way. Mouts snapped at him once or twice when he got too close. Nothing fierce, but enough to scare him and I'd have to rescue him if he felt cornered. Then I'd coax Mouts back into her room and all calmed quickly.

What I've cone to realize is that Mouts is a real scaredy cat. Jumps and runs at everything...me folding towels..my son moving too quickly...the doorbell ringing.... I'm supposing that's from being constantly on guard when she was on her own outside.

Now it seems the tables are turning. KitKat seems to be getting bolder and not in a good way. He follows every step she takes...stares her down...stalks her. She then starts to whine and I know he's trapped her somewhere.

When Mouts had the stronger posture, KitKat would allow mw to rescue him. Now, when I try to rescue Mouts, KitKat bows up and tries to bite me. As soon as Mouts gets back to her room, he's sweet and loving again.

I've started putting KitKat in time out in my bedroom when he traps Mouts. But the only way I can get him to break his trance-like staring at her is to shake snacks and coax him to my room. So is he now thinking I'm rewarding him for being a bully? And as smart as he is, he's not going to fall for treats much longer.

Funny thing is that as soon as I put Mouts back in her room, he sits at her door and cries for her! And he has never attacked her outright. Just this stare down thing that's making me nervous. Any suggestions?

 

[shadowsrescue]

Okay, not terrible, but not great news. I was so worried about Moutside being the aggressor, since KitKat has been my sheltered baby. But its the exact opposite! Mouts is as sweet as can be and KitKat has become a real pill!

When I first started the face to face, Mouts would just ignore KitKat. He just seemed curious, but stayed out of her way. Mouts snapped at him once or twice when he got too close. Nothing fierce, but enough to scare him and I'd have to rescue him if he felt cornered. Then I'd coax Mouts back into her room and all calmed quickly.

What I've cone to realize is that Mouts is a real scaredy cat. Jumps and runs at everything...me folding towels..my son moving too quickly...the doorbell ringing.... I'm supposing that's from being constantly on guard when she was on her own outside.

Now it seems the tables are turning. KitKat seems to be getting bolder and not in a good way. He follows every step she takes...stares her down...stalks her. She then starts to whine and I know he's trapped her somewhere.

When Mouts had the stronger posture, KitKat would allow mw to rescue him. Now, when I try to rescue Mouts, KitKat bows up and tries to bite me. As soon as Mouts gets back to her room, he's sweet and loving again.

I've started putting KitKat in time out in my bedroom when he traps Mouts. But the only way I can get him to break his trance-like staring at her is to shake snacks and coax him to my room. So is he now thinking I'm rewarding him for being a bully? And as smart as he is, he's not going to fall for treats much longer.

Funny thing is that as soon as I put Mouts back in her room, he sits at her door and cries for her! And he has never attacked her outright. Just this stare down thing that's making me nervous. Any suggestions?

Have you tried providing yummy special treats with both of them present.  I like to use plain cooked chicken or canned tuna.  This helps them to associate each other with something yummy.  I would try doing this a few times each day.

Time outs are appropriate when KitKat is being aggressive.  I would start with just a few minutes ( maybe 5-10) then allow her back out.  If it happens again, the time out is a big longer.  

Are you using Feliway diffusers or Comfort Zone spray?  I found both very very helpful when I was introducing my two.  I knew immediately when they ran dry.  It is also important to have more of them than you think.  This is a bummer as they are expensive.  Yet you can find refills at a discount on Amazon.  I used the spray in areas that were hot spots that I did not have an outlet.

Also think about Composure liquid max.  It's a non sedating calming supplement that really can help cats to calm.  I had one of my boys on it for 6 months.  It helped my aggressive one to calm himself and helped the cat that was getting attacked to feel safe.  There are also Flower Essences by Jackson Galaxy.  Bully remedy and Safe space for cats are two that come to mind.

Also just time and patience.  Do you have lots of vertical space?  One of my cats loved to be up high ( tree dweller) and my other loved low hidden spaces ( bush dweller).  This helped them both as they were able to get away from each other safely.  You can do a search on ideas.  Jackson Galaxy has some awesome ideas in his Catification projects.

 

[tarasgirl06]

ShadowsRescue's suggestions just about cover it, and all are excellent!  I'd just like to add that with cats, just like with people, there is a period of adjustment and it can vary from family to family.  They are probably trying to work out their domination issues.  Just like with people.  Not attractive, but true -- we all do this, in subtle and not so subtle ways.  Unless there's actual violence, I wouldn't worry too much.  They will work it out in time.  It sounds like they're doing quite well, actually, and with some of those suggestions, they'll probably be doing even better. 

 

[sdufrene]

Thanks for replies. I had backed up and was confining Moutside again. Though, not with quite as much rigor. I put up only one gate. Unfortunately, last night proved that laughable as Moutside jumped over it several times. And invariably, each time she tried to jump in bed with KitKat and I, both ended behind boxes, whining until I made a path for Moutside to return to her room. The good news is that when Moutside feels threatened, she retreats to her room as long as she has a clear path.

I've been giving the Composure Max at 1/4 tsp. Will increase that today. I also read up on the Bully product. Will order.

Should I give both Composure and Bully? As we've only used Composure for 3 days now, should I wait for this to kick in first?

And finally, should I not have backed up to confining Moutside again and should I now just let them work it out since there's no actual fighting? There was one incident where Moutside's ears were back and she was hissing really badly. And KitKat gets this "about to pounce" posture, though he never has. It certainly looked like a fight was going to happen. Of course, this was when KitKat found his way into Moutside's room. The laundry basket worked to separate them. Thanks! Never actually got the basket over either cat, but the prospect sent them in opposite directions.

I remain committed, though I have to admit to that feeling of "what was I thinking in getting another cat? Thing were so calm here and I have so much on my plate with this darn flood". This is just not as easy as I thought it would be. But, I fell in love with this bundle of fur long before the flood. She was the first thing I looked for once the water subsided. (she was still outside at the time the flood hit, with zero time to look for her before evacuating)

Thanks to all for your help. I just don't think I could do this without you.

 

[shadowsrescue]

You are doing just great!   I used to give 1/2 t. composure in the mornings and 1/4t. in the evenings.  I did this for 6 months!    I also used Flower essences along side.  The flower essences can go directly into wet food with composure as well as in the water bowl, spritzed around the room and even place a few drops on your hand and rub it into the cat.  The composure generally will work quickly, but you may need the initial dose to be doubled to 1/2 t.  It also will wear off after 6-8 hours.  You can give 1/2 t, 2x a day if needed.  

Remember that this all takes time.  It took my two one solid year.  I had many days where I would just cry and ask why oh why I had done this to my peaceful home.  It was hard.  Each day felt like a repeat of the day before.  Yet little by little things improved.  My two are now good buddies and have multiple daily play sessions.  They even groom each other!  

You will get there.

Another trick I learned was to use a large dog crate.  I would place one of the cats inside and cover the crate on 3 sides.  I then would have the other cat out and he could safely sniff.  I would offer plain cooked chicken to both while doing this.  The sessions only lasted 5 minutes or so.  I wanted each session to end on a positive note not a negative one so I was sure to just give it a few minutes.  I sometimes did this 3x a day.  It was just daily exposure that helped.

I also realized that the cats to some degree had to work things out.  They had to decide who would be top cat.  It's not always the cat that was there first.  For awhile in my house, the new kitty took charge.  After a period of settling down, my resident cat took the spot back.  It has remained that way for 3 years now.  So some hissing and growling or chasing does need to happen.  You just want to stop, the full blown, fur flying attacks.  Sometimes things can quickly escalate too.  I just watched for swishing tails, ears going flat and signs of a charge ( usually wiggly butt).  I would do my best to redirect with a wand toy.  

Do you play with them both?  I used to play with the cats separately to try and tire them out.  Then offer a yummy treat reward.  Usually after a play session and snack, they want to chill, groom and take a nap.  I then would look to try and play with them both.  I usually used a shoe string that I would hide under a blanket and slowly or quickly pull out.  My boys loved it.  

You did a wonderful thing in rescuing her and bringing her inside.  I just know things will get better.  Just give it time and keep working.  

We are all here to help!

 

[sdufrene]

Thanks for replies. We had a good day today. Found out that tense moments are easily diffused with these two with the rattling and dispersing of kitty snacks. Sort of feel like I'm rewarding bad behavior... But heck...its working!

Also realized the real deal breaker for these two is their cat trees. I have two, exactly the same, but in different rooms. Both trees sit under big windows that I open so the cats can feel and hear the outside. Both love their spaces.

The worse reaction comes when KitKat enters Moutside's room and bolts for her tree. Then it becomes a hissing, ears back, growling stand off. Other than that, the few time Moutside has ventured out, they seem to go out of their ways to avoid each other.

Moutside has not left her room much the last few days. I'm thinking she feels safe there. But her desire to be with the family seems to be replacing that fear. So.... I've been careful to close her gate once she's left the room, so that KitKat doesn't bolt for her tree. And have been mindful of ensuring Moutside gets in when she's had enough.

Their favorite spot today has been the sofa....IF I'm sitting there too. If I get up, they start posturing.

Moutside takes her place on the sofa itself and KitKat hovers on the back or on one of the arms. Only one small problem when KitKat either accidentally or purposely landed on Moutside. Grabbed the treats and issue resolved.

For about ten minutes tonight, bother were on either side of me as I sat on the sofa. Both were snoozing comfortably, as long as no one moved.

It was short-lived as my son came out from his room, went to pet the closest cat- KitKat and Moutside crawled over me to get her share. KitKat then tried to bite her legs. I quickly moved KitKat. Just a knee-jerk reaction.

KitKat left the sofa in a huff. But for ten whole minutes....

 

[tarasgirl06]

*That's why most humans have TWO hands* 

 

[sdufrene]

LOL. Anyone know which cat food hides meds like Composure best? I've tried Fancy Feast and Friskies wet versions. Both cays are turning their noses up at these once medicated.

 

[shadowsrescue]

LOL. Anyone know which cat food hides meds like Composure best? I've tried Fancy Feast and Friskies wet versions. Both cays are turning their noses up at these once medicated.

You can try straight tuna with lots of tuna juice, salmon with salmon juice or even Gerber stage 2 chicken or turkey baby food.  My cats all do just fine with the Composure.  You can also try the treat version, yet it takes like 4-6 treats 2x a day which gets expensive.  Also some cats don't like them as the treats are large and get hard quickly.  I guess it's all just preference.

Sorry they don't like the Composure.

 

[sdufrene]

Okay...they're not best friends. My Siamese KitKat tends to terrorize Moutside most days. But no fur flying. I think he regards her as a play toy, but Moutside's still too skittish for that just yet. I can tell when the Composure wears out of their systems....without a doubt. And I often have to put KitKat in time out. Both stop being aggressive if I hand out treats. I still put KitKat in my bedroom when I leave the house. I have to close my bedroom door with KitKat with me to get any sleep, but things are steadily improving. They are not actually touching however, they are both hunkered down for a nap. Opened their eyes when the flash went off, then fell sound to sleep again..... A rare shot of them, but certainly shows how far we've come. Thanks to all for the great advice and support. You are all gems.

 

[sdufrene]

Couldn't get the picture to load, bit they are sleeping next to each other on my sofa.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I am happy that things continue to improve for KitKat and Moutside.  It does take time and patience.  I remember the days of the Composure wearing off.  Treats are your best friend.  

I used to use Comfort Zone phermone spray in areas that were "hot spots" for my two.  It always seemed to be the stairs and right at the top of the stairs.  The spray helped.  I then used to block the stairs during times they were chasing.  This seemed to put a stop to it.  Redirecting with play is another idea.  My two would love to play with da bird or other wand toy.  Then receive a treat after play.

Thanks for the update.  For loading a picture be sure you are choosing the picture icon and loading from there.  You need to be sure to hit apply or load at the end.  Here is a tutorial on how to add pictures.  I would love to see a picture of your two!

http://www.thecatsite.com/a/image-and-video-tutorial#user_imagesposts

 

[sdufrene]

Still can't do the upload after following directions. But I have a windows phone. Its persnickety. Forgot about that spray. Will order today.

Since KitKat sleeps with me, on days that he just wont let up with his stalking Moutside, I put him in my bedroom for the last 30-60 minutes of the day and snuggle up with Moutside so that its a positive end of the day. KitKat has never been upset with being in my bedroom alone for short periods.

I
do try extra playtime first and that does help sometimes. But typically this happens late at night and I think he's just ready for bed and irritated because we are still up. A definite creature of habit. Funny thing is that EVERY single night, with or without his acting up, as soon as I close my bedroom door for he and I to settle in for the night, he cries for Moutside. I know she's the reason for his crying because he never, ever cried at bedtime before and doesn't start until I'm under the covers and he realizes we are settling in for the night.

In spite of that, I just keep thinking how horrible the weather has been and how anything is better than Moutside being outside.... That aside, I am still very pleased with our progress.

Couldn't have gotten this far without you guys!!!

 

[tarasgirl06]

Sounds like great progress is being made! So glad to hear this.

IDK what photo problems you are having or what your OS is, but I'm one of many, many people basically disabled because WIN10's photo program is so messed up we have been unable to even download to computer from camera or card.  I recently decided to try something else and, since Chrome is my browser of choice, backed up my photos and downloaded all my cards to Google Photos.  PROBLEM SOLVED.  So if any of this fits you, suggest you try that.  I got so tired of contacting MS and posting on the WIN10 threads about this!