I'm worried and frustrated

[pixies ma]

She is lightly better, thanks.

Still needs a lot of stimulation from me to eat what she needs, but there might be a slight improvement there too. Maybe. She is to be alone for 6 hours later, and i'll see if she eats a bit on her own.
She still crashes from early afternoon till around midnight though. 

Her nose is making less noise, perhaps cause she sneezed a bunch of times yesterday. They were dry sneezing fits, but maybe it moved things around in her nose a bit. Strange how i never find mucus or boogers.

When i spoke to a tech about starting Doxycycline yesterday, the vet told her to tell me to take her temperature and if she has a fever to start treatment. I have taken her temp rectally when she was sleeping in the evening, and she has no fever. I really don't know why she crashes for so long then. I mean, she wont even follow me around or come see when i make noises or go on my balcony.

Swallowing seems painful. 

I asked the tech if anyone knew why this is dragging on so long, and she said a plain no. But i think she might have feline HIV or leukemia. Or both. She has symptoms....

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

 
 But i think she might have feline HIV or leukemia. Or both. She has symptoms....

From articles I have read on these two health issues, the both are usually accompanied by FEVER, and she doesn't have a fever, so hopefully this is not what she has. 

From what you describe of her NOW, she is having not really lung issues, but rather "nasal" issues?   So lethargy, loss of appetite and nasal issues?  Have you looked in her mouth to see if you can see any sores? 

 

[pixies ma]

 
From articles I have read on these two health issues, the both are usually accompanied by FEVER, and she doesn't have a fever, so hopefully this is not what she has. 

From what you describe of her NOW, she is having not really lung issues, but rather "nasal" issues?   So lethargy, loss of appetite and nasal issues?  Have you looked in her mouth to see if you can see any sores? 

Surely cats (or humans) with HIV and leukemia don't have fever all the time? Early stages is my guess if she has any of those 2 diseases. 
Her immune system is almost non existant. She had her first series of shots and boom, sick.
She doesn't seem to have ulcers, but i might be wrong. Woild be odd though for her to get an ulcer 3 weeks into her flare up. She didn't have problems with swallowing before that. Her appetite gradually decreased, which means the first 2 weeks of flare up she ate on her own.
Not sure if she has lung issues, though the vet didnt hear anything 2 weeks ago. 

 

[red top rescue]

Two things -- so much has been said and suggested.  I will also suggest the lactoferrin, it worked WONDERS for mine when they were young and recovering from nasty URI from being in animal control.  One still needs it at 2 years of age to keep her eye from running, and the eye runs into her nose and I guess it tickles and makes her sneeze.  The lactoferrin stimulates the immune system.  It comes in capsules, you can dump the powder out into the food and mix it.  Mine of course will not eat wet food, so for her I mix it in a small amount of coconut oil and add the salmon-oil-based supplement she gets and give it to her with a syringe in the side of her mouth.  She thinks it's a treat.  The other kittens got over their problems after about 6 months and no longer get the lactoferrin.

The other thing is that if she has stomatitis and her throat hurts, she probably will not eat.  I have 2 cats with that and they respond well to depo-medrol injections.  When their throats get sore and they get weird (I can always see it in their behavior) they get another shot.  Time between shots ranges from one to three months.  Cats tolerate steroids better than dogs and people and we have been doing this with them for 5 years.  They need the shots less often than they used to, but they start eating again within 24 hours f getting the depo-medrol.  It stimulates their appetite and reduces inflammation, so your vet might want to give it a try.

 

[nibblerandco]

If she's been vaccinated I'm sure she's been dewormed and deflead? A flea infestation can cause a kitten to be lethargic, subdued, and quiet. Also, I'm sure you've checked if her gums are pale?

I really hope it's not FeLV or FIV, especially not FeLV. FIV is a less dire prognosis and positive cats can live normal lives. There is a combined snap test you can get done. They can have the result in 10 minutes. I don't know how much it would cost but you could phone around. I'm sure different vets charge different prices...

 

[pixies ma]

Thank you Red Top Rescue.

I had forgotten someone suggested the lactofferin. I'll phone the vet's office tomorrow and ask about that. I need to know if it can be taken with Vyralis. Mine has zero issues with her eyes, which is good, but it also puzzles me as most people who have cats who have herpes tell me it manifests that way. It alwats seem to be mild and short lived, compared to mine.
Tell me, have you ever seen a kitten get this bad a flare up for over 3 weeks and still going? I know she will have flare ups, but part of my worries is how the vet can't tell me why it's lasting so long.
As for the stomatits, i had to google that. Scary stuff..She was examined last week though, and the vet never saw any redness or inflammation inside her mouth, apart from the intitial mouth sore she had 2 months ago when i first brought her in. I have checked, and saw nothing. But i should check again in the morning when it's lighter and i can see best.
She was left alone for 6 hours tonight, and she ate about 1 tbs of kibble while i was out. She then had a full meal with my help, and some more kibble on her own and with my help an hour later. She is hungry...
But i still notice she has trouble swallowing. Also, she hardly chews her kibble. She swallows it whole half the time. This reminds me that last time she was super sick, she kinda chewed with her head tilted when extra chewing was needing, like something was stuck in her teeth. I kept telling the vet, who saw nothing inside her mouth to explain it. Something to look into again...

NibbleAndCo, boy oh boy has she been dewormed! She was heavily infected with roundworms that came out whole and alive at some point. That was after her first Strongid dose. Her diarrhea was so bad she was extremeely thin, and i had to go to the clinic for fluid shots once or twice a day for a week. It was hell for both of us. She was sick with the flu at the same time. She had a rough start, that one.
The strongid was not good enough, so she then took two separate treatments of fenbendazole. This quickly killed the live worms, and then she had another type of med for gastric inflammation that stopped the diarrhea. And then surprise! Fleas. They were not detected by the vet at first, but they popped up after 3 weeks. She has had 2 of the 3 monthly Revolution treatment since.
I think she grooms a lot, and something scratches at her temples and ears, but i'm pretty sure she is flea free now. Her gums are pink.
As for the tests, i really have zero money. But if we are to postpone her next shots, i might be able to swing it with the money i was going to use for shots. I was gonna wait till i have her fixed in the fall, but maybe its best.

 

[feralvr]

I will come back and read your thread more thoroughly BUT wanted to post this thread on Lysine and Lactoferrin. GREAT info. in this thread. Something even my Perla (Herpetic eye - chronic issues) has been dealing with for four years and the addition of Lactoferrin to the Lysine does help her tremendously BUT will never cure it. Anyway - here is the thread - http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine

 

[pixies ma]

I will come back and read your thread more thoroughly BUT wanted to post this thread on Lysine and Lactoferrin. GREAT info. in this thread. Something even my Perla (Herpetic eye - chronic issues) has been dealing with for four years and the addition of Lactoferrin to the Lysine does help her tremendously BUT will never cure it. Anyway - here is the thread - http://www.thecatsite.com/t/267703/stubborn-herpes-infection-add-lactoferrin-in-addition-to-lysine

Thank you

I left a message at the vet about this. From what i read, i don't understand why vets don't prescribe this with the lysine.
I called in to say she has no fever but is still a little stuffy nosed and won't eat much on her own. She suggested i stop helping her eat and see if she eats more on her own since kittens are super smart about getting special attentions. Said it might take 2 days for her to get the picture. So today she has not eaten much, about half of what i managed to get into her when i hand fed her. I don't like this as she is already a bit skinny. She is extra quiet too, didn't play much and hung out under the bed a couple times. No fever though.
Her gums seem pink and i can see no sore in there.
I asked if we are still to give her her second set of shots, which is due on the 5th of sept maximum. The tech said sure, if she has no fever. But i find it odd..the first shots made her ill for a month but the vet might suggest still giving her her booster right away if she has no fever? Weird...i would have thought she would want to start over when she has been healthy for a few weeks at least...

 

[red top rescue]

Vets are not trained in the more natural ways of healing in vet school.  Lysine was something we owners brought in from human medicine awhile back and most vets didn't know of its anti-herpes activity.  It's up to us cat guardians to be on the forefront, do the research, then tell the vets.  The new generation of vets may be trained in this but the old ones were not.  Most of this information comes over from human use anyhow.  I have taken lysine for years for the herpes, told about it by my friend who is a nurse.  I used it on herpes cats and it helped of course.  The lactoferrin is less specific, it increases the immune system and seems to help their recoveries.  I learned about lactoferrin on this site.  Don't expect your vet to know about it yet!  Also, for fleas I would suggest Advantage as it is gentler than revolution.  In my opinion this poor kitten has been overmedicated and probably needs some probiotics to replenish her intestinal flora too.

Do NOT give her a second set of shots while she is sick!   Good vets will not do that but I have herad of many that do and the cat gets even sicker later.  Also, I disagree with your vet totally about "stop helping her eat" and that she's getting attention that way.  Attention is just what they need when they do not feel well.  Hanging uot under the bed is a Bad Sign.  Pay attention to it.

Do you have other vets in your area, either a Feline Specialty vet or an AAHA accredited vet hospital?  I would suggest you take that whole history and your kitten to one of those for a second opinion. And in the meantime, the lactoferrin should help.  It isn't expensive on Amazon.  She could probably use some probiotics too.  Do some research on here (search box under the top brown bar) and see what others recommend.

https://www.aaha.org/pet_owner/about_aaha/hospital_search/default.aspx

 

[nibblerandco]

 
Do NOT give her a second set of shots while she is sick!   Good vets will not do that but I have herad of many that do and the cat gets even sicker later.  Also, I disagree with your vet totally about "stop helping her eat" and that she's getting attention that way.  Attention is just what they need when they do not feel well.  Hanging uot under the bed is a Bad Sign.  Pay attention to it.

I agree with this 100%! Glad you said it Red Top Rescue. And I also think you should get a second opinion Pixies Ma. Telling you not to feed her and to go ahead with her shots does not strike me as good advice or proactive care at all. There are clear signs of illness here that should not be ignored, as Red Top Rescue said.

I also would not go ahead with anything else until Pixie's been FIV/FeLV tested. (Someone else can chime in if they think this is less important than I do.) Hopefully she is negative, but her subsequent treatment plan would really depend on the result. I'm surprised the vet didn't suggest a combined SNAP test right away given her background...

 

[pixies ma]

Sorry it's taking so long to reply sometimes. I have intermittent internet problems, on top of my ancient computer freezing all the time.

I've just had a call back from the vet's office. Btw, i always speak to technicians, not the vet. The techs speak to the vet then they transmit any messages.
She knows about lactoferrin for humans, but not for cats, so it's for me to decide what to do about that. I'll have to look locally if i can find any, cause i need a credit card to order from Amazon, and my credit card is topped. Cant increase it either cause i did that last month. 
I cannot stress enough how broke i am right now. This means i can't get a second opinion. I cant afford to pay 90$ to speak to another vet who might tell me the same thing. To give you an idea, i have 100$ buget for groceries for 2 weeks. 30$ of that goes for food for Pixie, which doesn't leave much for me.
As i thought, the vet thinks it's best to vaccinate as opposed to testing as testing before 6 months of age might give a false positive result and then i'll have to test again in 3 months. I can't afford that.
She suggests wating a week after the due date, wich brings it to sept 10th. I don't know what to do! Surely she will be back to normal by then, but i don't want her to be sick for a month again.

About the food...i give her the food, she licks a bit, then lifts her head to look at me. Yesterday, i did not finger feed her, but stayed next to her encouraging and praising, somtimes stirring the food with my finger to get her attention again, but she follows my finger cause she wants to lick it. In conclusion, she ate a bit less than usual yesterday, though she ate the canned food i left before leaving for a few hours, and took some kibble too. I agree that she seems to have gotten used to eating off my hand. I think it's part of the problem on top of her appetite not being top notch at the moment. So i'll meet her half way and only use my finger for when there's lysine in there.

For the Revolution, i think it's also been chosen cause it treats round worms. I already have the third dose. When that is done, i'll have to pick up with the Strongid monthly dose again till she is 6 months old.

She is on daily probiotics since day one. Florentero or something like that.

I agree she has had a lot of meds so far. But she had a lot of serious problems. I almost gave her the Doxycycline a bunch of times in moments of extreme worry, but it was the vet who insisted i wait ti see if she had a fever or green snot. She was right that she didnt need the meds in the end. I saw another vet her first month. I was switched to the current one when the first one was on holiday. My current one use to treat my dog. She's the one who came to my home to put him to sleep in june. She saw Pixie for free. But there's something rough about her...i don't know. I like her, but more shots seem so rough

She has not hid under the bed today. Perhaps she did yesterday cause the landlord was here to fix the toilet, and though she came and watched him, maybe it made her more tired.  I dont know...my sleeping schedule is messed up too this week so maybe that's affecting her. She played and chased my damn feet for 2 hours.

I don't know what to do about the shots, but i guess i have 10 days to decide...

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I tend to agree about the food, that she is getting USED to eating from your finger.  That's what it sounds like to  me anyway, from what you have just described.

AND, I know what you mean about the false positive/false negative test results on kittens with those tests

. 

$90 for a Vet visit?  Wow, that's a LOT! 

Maybe something here will help:

OR:  http://www.thecatsite.com/t/155462/cant-afford-a-vet-please-read

 

[pixies ma]

About the food, i give up. I'm going to keep finger feeding her till she is better. She hid again...Behind my bookcase, which is where she hangs out when i'm gone.
She has onlu eaten 1\4 of a can so far and about 1\4 of what she is supposed to eat in kibble. With my help.
But...i just cleaned her ears and it was dramatic on both sides but much more so on one side. I didn't see any dirt when i wiped, but maybe there's somthing in there causing her pain. That would interfere with her eating. I remember when i was little, i had really bad swimmer ear infections and my whole jaw hurt. So maybe it would be worth looking into.
I think i'm simply gonna skip on the shots and use the money to have her checked and for lactoferrin. Can't see anything in her mouth and ear but i'm ill equipped.

Over here in Quebec, it costs about 80$ for a check up, plus taxes. A new vet would cost me that. My current vet charges me 40$ for a brief exam. When she was really bad, sometimes she would not even charge me. She would would price me for a technician visit or as if i only went there to have her meds given. They were good to me like that. They have known me for about 13 years.
A new vet wont do that.

Also, i still owe them 830$ for my dog who died in June. He had Xrays, then morphine, etc...His last 24h cost me 1000$. They let me pay only 75$ instead of 100 last month. So i'm not gonna ask for any more favors.
I don't spend money on silly things, but the whole situation would be better if i was working full time instead of sick leave pay. On the other hand, she would have died if i had had to work back in July. She needed 24h care and hourly feedings and hydtrating.

My dog cost me less money and less stress when he went into renal failure after dental surgery 3 years ago. It was aweful for many weeks, but this... Pixie costs a lot per pound! And she's only 3 months old.
 

 

[pixies ma]

 
Two things -- so much has been said and suggested.  I will also suggest the lactoferrin, it worked WONDERS for mine when they were young and recovering from nasty URI from being in animal control.  One still needs it at 2 years of age to keep her eye from running, and the eye runs into her nose and I guess it tickles and makes her sneeze.  The lactoferrin stimulates the immune system.  It comes in capsules, you can dump the powder out into the food and mix it.  Mine of course will not eat wet food, so for her I mix it in a small amount of coconut oil and add the salmon-oil-based supplement she gets and give it to her with a syringe in the side of her mouth.  She thinks it's a treat.  The other kittens got over their problems after about 6 months and no longer get the lactoferrin.

A friend offered to have this shipped to me. Is this brand good? Someone had suggested Jarrow, but this one is cheaper for 120 caps. They come in 480 mg. Is colostrum ok?

 

[feralvr]

I am sure the brand your friend can ship to you is just fine. I use this brand because it was recommended to me first: You would give 1/2 capsule AM and the other 1/2 PM. Although this is for an adult cat - so for a kitten, I would cut that in half to start.

I would make sure your kitten is completely healthy before the next set of kitten vaccinations. I am certain that your vet would agree and would not give them if your kitten is still unwell. It is ok to delay them if necessary. I hope your little kitten is soon on the mend and feeling better. Do keep us posted! :rub:

 

[pixies ma]

Thank you. I'm seeing the vet this afternoon, which setttles the vaccine dilemma as i wont have any money for them once i pay for this visit.

I had already decided to postpone the shots anyway. I want her to be healthy for at least a month. She needs to just be a kitten for a while and i need to not have to worry about her constantly, and calculate precicely what she eats all the time. This is no fun.

The vet recommends the shots for sept 10th, but i'm seeing a different one today cause the usual one is off today.  Different perspective might do her good.

I love her so much... I had to be her mamma cause she was so wee and sick when i tool her. I don't usually bond with cats, but hand feeding her and keeping her on my chest to keep her warm for the first weeks kinda helped.

 

[feralvr]

I love her so much... I had to be her mamma cause she was so wee and sick when i tool her. I don't usually bond with cats, but hand feeding her and keeping her on my chest to keep her warm for the first weeks kinda helped.

:heart3: :heart2: AND I think she loves you just as much. :rub: I really hope that she is on the mend here. Little kittens with such a hard start in life have an even tougher time trying to recover from these common kitten illnesses and viruses. They can get so sick and it scares us so very much. Best of luck today with the other vet in the office - yes, sometimes good to get a different viewpoint and opinion even if the vet's are from the same office. Do tell this vet about all of your concerns and hopefully you will have them all addressed and feel more confident going forward. :cross:

 

[pixies ma]

So the vet said everything seems fine. Heart, lungs, ears, mouth are perfect. Says her need to sleep a lot is probably due to a fast growth period. Not sure about her appetite but she reckons she eats enough and that she is supposed to eat half a can a day. I told her a couple of techs have told me numerous times that a kitten like her should eat more or less a full can per day but she says it's not so. I dont understand...even the Wellness and Hound and Gatos cans say up to a can a day, but she says she needs about 120-130 kcal a day, which means about half a can. Told her she used to eat close to 3\4 of a can a day plus kibble, and she says sometimes kittens have phases when they eat like pigs and then they go back to normal. She weighs 3.7 lbs which means she has gained 0.7 in a month. Kittens usually gain 1 lb a month, but she says she looks fine.
Might be a second generation of worms bothering her. She had horrible farts last night for no reason. So she precribed strongid today, her last dose of Revolution on the 17th, and then strongid again every 2 weeks til she is 6 months old. Not sure what to think...the vet seemed optimistic a nd the only thing she noticed was her nose congestion. She ended up eating the treats the vet put out for her.
Told her no shots for another month. She said ok. If her appetite declines again or she does not have more 'pig' phases till saturday, she will give her an appetite stimulant.

What do y'all think?
 

 

[feralvr]

The amount on cans to feed cats is usually overestimated, IMO. Plus - it varies from cat to cat as to how much they should, just like people. I have one fatty that needs way less calories than one of my other hard keepers who needs almost double the amount and weighs less!!!

Kittens usually need at the very least 25 - 30 calories per pound per day. So if she weighs almost four pounds - then I would push for the 120 calories per day right now with the canned and leave out kibble as well. Anyway - that is what I would try for.

Can't comment on the Strongid every two weeks till she is six months old. Have not heard of that protocol before but that is not to say it is incorrect by any means!! I imagine it can't hurt at all and is very safe. I do not rely on Revolution to deworm kittens anyway. I think it is best to go with the two week apart protocol for three dosages with proper medication to deworm kittens.

I am happy to hear that your kitten (what is her name? - did you say earlier in the thread - sorry if you did) is doing better. I think this was a good visit and things are looking up. :cross:

 

[pixies ma]

Ok well it's a comfort to know i've been trying to overfeed her and she just won't have it.

I'm trying to read the lactoferrin thread, but it's so long! I saw your posts on when you were just starting on it

Her name is Pixie cause she is tiny with green eyes and full of mischief. I have a bunch of French names for her too, but her official name is Pixie Dee Stella. Dee is her American fairy godmother, and Stella is her rescue cat, who she found in a parking lot, very sick and tiny. Dee helped me a lot with Pixie. She knows a thing or two about cats.
She has FHV too. Stella, not Dee.

Dee is trying to order the Jarrow lacto from Amazone for Pixie to send to me, but the shipping costs more than the actual product. I called some stores here but they don't have it. Gah..