Help with "punishment"

[wookie130]

Originally Posted by Satai

This is a very dangerous message to give any child.

They should be absolutely certain that their parents respect their bodily integrity and that they respect that the child's body is the child's own.

A lot of abuse is tolerated by children and adults because they have a poor sense of their body as their own.

A mother's concern for her child not having a piercing to young is about preserving the health of her child and teaching the child to properly care for her body, not a power struggle over to whom the body belongs.

As a seperate matter, I am also uncertain that you are correct that that is even the legal situation - I would be surprised if the child's body is not legally considered the child's, and the parent is expected to act in the child's best interest until they reach their majority.

Okay. I think I just opened up a can of worms here...

I am not suggesting that a child's body is not her own until 18. And I am not suggesting that the child's body is a mother's "property." I am also not implying that a child has no rights in terms of his or her body. I realize that children need to develop a sense of love and respect for their own bodies, and recognizes when someone else is violating their bodies. This was NOT what I'm saying!

What I AM saying, is that her daughter is NOT authorized to pierce herself, or be pierced by ANYONE, until she is 18, unless she brings a parent to a well-established and professional piercing studio to sign the consent forms.

A parent has every right to determine what is in the best interest of his/her child...and many of these decisions relate directly to how our children treat their bodies, safety issues, etc. This is well within our jurisdiction as parents!

I feed my adolescent sons, I clothe them, and pay the bills. This is part of my job as a mother. In terms of body modification, body art, etc., THEIR BUTTS ARE MINE until I give them the green light!!! This is what I am saying. And I am NOT violating their basic rights as human beings by conveying this to them...they will simply know that if I don't approve of a behavior, and it's not in their best interest, it's not going to happen, and if it does, there will be consequences.

A parent HAS to ensure that a child is recognizing what is and what is not good for their bodies, so in that sense, their butts are ours as well. We as parents determine how nutritious the meals are we cook for our children, how appropriate the clothing on their backs will be, whether or not we let them get piercings/tattoos/scarification/stretched ears/whatever, when they are going to bed, the level of hygiene our children need, when to take them to a doctor, etc. In other words, WE as parents are the ones who protect and monitor the safety, and emotional/physical well-being of our kids.

 

[jen]

Did you say that your daughters friends mother did the piercing? That was extremely irresponsible of her! Is there something you can do? Talk to the mother who did the piercing? She had no right to pierce a 13 year old girl. Even if she was an ex-piercer or something, then she should know that you have to be 18. Can't she get in some sort of trouble for doing that?

 

[satai]

Originally Posted by wookie130

In other words, WE as parents are the ones who protect and monitor the safety, and emotional/physical well-being of our kids.

I understand what you are saying and I think, trying to say, and I appreciate you clearing up exactly what you meant, too.

Just to expand on my original post, I think it is important to remember that what we mean isn't always what a child understands.

The concept of bodies as property is a singularly dangerous one - not because of how the parent feels about it, but because of how the child percieves it.

Children should understand that their parent is the legal guardian of the child's property until the child is legally old enough to care for it - they should never be under the impression that their bodies actually belong to their parents however, just as a parent might manage a trust fund for a (lucky!) child until the child is of age - but the money is never legally the parents.

Edited: for clarity of thought.

 

[kluchetta]

Yes, my daughter gave me the routine of "But it's my body". To which I answered, not nearly as eloquently as you, Wookie130, "Yep, when you're 18 you can make those decisions that affect your body."

I think she started realizing last night exactly what she did do. I would like to show her some photos though, of why this decision isn't the right one for right now in her life.

 

[luckygirl]

I would've never even attempted anything like that. I'm 28, and I still cover up my tattoo when I visit my father. I know he disapproves of it, and I choose to respect that, and not flash it in front of him, out of respect & love.

1. definately take it out. She will not be able to wear it to school anyway. And her friends will know that she did not get away with it. As well as for the usual, her teeth/braces, an infection, a scar etc.

2. take her to the dr to look at it. And let the dr. explain (without mom's interuption) the infections, the dangers etc of home piercing. Make her aware of the bill, you can try to hold her responsible for paying it, but like somone else said, at 13, you don't have the funds.

3. definately take away her privledges. She blatantly disobeyed, she should be punished, period. Take away the internet, the phone, tv....whatever works for her. No friends over, and no going to friends... maybe for 2 weeks possibly for the rest of the summer. Thank God it was just a piercing, next time she could try something worse, like drugs.

4. give her more responsibilities. She wants to be treated like an adult, she will learn to act like 1. She wants her privledges back, she has to earn them. Hey, I don't like doing dishes, and I certainly don't want to, but it has to be done before I get to do anything else. Pull tight on the purse strings, teens need $ and they don't work at that age, make her earn her $ at home. Go over your budget with her, use your 2wk punishment to teach her the value of $, or to balance a check book. Make her do research on infections from piercings (monitoring her internet usage of course). Whatever you feel fit.

5. Provided she completes everything that she has rightfully earned from her bad behavior, you may want to take the time to find her a nice magnetic lip ring, or 1 that you pinch on, that doesn't actually pierce. Kids go through phases, this may be the "in" thing right now, she will grow out of it. And there's no harm in giving her a temporary one. Explaining that you understand that it's a cool thing right now to pierce her lip, but in her future businesses do NOT allow facial piercings, and while you respect her desire to be an idividual, she needs to respect your wisdom & authority.

PS.... I would also call the girls mom that pierced your daughter. Not in a mean way, but concerned. This girl could be contracting a disease with her contact with blood, and you don't know if she's done this to other people. I'd want to know if my child did this, so I can explain contracting diseases to them. Good luck.... girls are rough.

 

[satai]

Originally Posted by kluchetta

Excellent ideas everyone! I knew I could turn to you guys.

But she took the stud out herself.

I found a note on the bathroom mirror this morning that she was sorry and didn't know what she was thinking when she did it in the first place.

Because she took it out herself, you should acknowledge that in your punishment of her. (Otherwise, she'll just learn that there is no point in her attempting to make amends).

I think she should still be disciplined, but explain what the orignal punishment you had in mind for the offense was (feel free to embellish wildly, within the realm of plausability - you never know when you may have to follow through!), and that it's been cut down to this because she showed some sense, however belated, and because she had the good grace to apologise, which is important - she could have taken it out sullenly, but she did remember to apologise. That should be acknowledged as well.

 

[pami]

Should she still be punished if she acknowledged her mistake ? Isnt that what punishment is for to help in the acknowledgement of a mistake made ?

 

[luckygirl]

Punishment is the consequence you pay for your actions... regardless of whether you say your sorry, you still have to pay the price. Although I do think it should be recognized, as Satai put it, maybe lessen the consequence a tad.

 

[satai]

Originally Posted by Pami

Should she still be punished if she acknowledged her mistake ? Isnt that what punishment is for to help in the acknowledgement of a mistake made ?

Certainly, that is one interpretation - and I respect that.

However, in my world-view, consequence is a natural law, and in parenting, punishment is a consequence of disobedience both in and for itself and for it's educational value.

 

[kluchetta]

Yes. She can make amends, but it still remains that she disobeyed in the first place. So the punishment would be less, or not last as long. I'm leaning toward the latter...

 

[phenomsmom]

Originally Posted by Pami

Should she still be punished if she acknowledged her mistake ? Isnt that what punishment is for to help in the acknowledgement of a mistake made ?

Think of it this way:

Her parents are trying to prepare her for the "real world". Lets say she is caught with an illegal substance. Just because she tells the officer "gee I know I have this illegal substance and I am not supposed to and I am sorry" does that mean she should be allowed to go with punishment? NO. That isn't the way life works. Her punishment might be lesser but she will still be fined or jailed. Its better that she learns now that even if she says she is sorry and won't do it again she still broke the rules and had to pay for that.

 

[fwan]

I dont want to scare you, but if she is starting these sort of things, I would advise you to provide her Protection such as condoms or pills ASAP, because with that kind of influence no doubt she is ready...

 

[kluchetta]

Originally Posted by fwan

I dont want to scare you, but if she is starting these sort of things, I would advise you to provide her Protection such as condoms or pills ASAP, because with that kind of influence no doubt she is ready...

OMG. No!

 

[satai]

Originally Posted by fwan

I dont want to scare you, but if she is starting these sort of things, I would advise you to provide her Protection such as condoms or pills ASAP, because with that kind of influence no doubt she is ready...

Nope, no way that would scare a mom - she'll be safe from fear, dead from the heart attack!

 

[fwan]

Originally Posted by Satai

Nope, no way that would scare a mom - she'll be safe from fear, dead from the heart attack!

Well her curiosity level is very high at the moment, they are at the age where they are ready to try everything.

She has already probably tried cigarettes and maybe even alcohol at a slumber party.

I am just advising you on the safe side, because my mother found out when I was 16 that I was sleeping with my ex, and my mother thought I was an angel before that, she got a bigger attack when she found out everything i had done.

Her friends sound like bad influence, and right now she doesnt have common sense if she got pierced by her friends. Even though she realised later, how many other mistakes has she done??

Being a teen sucks

 

[solaritybengals]

Maybe you should try to get her involved in an after-school activity that might build self-esteem. Its hard to know what programs would have a better group of kids though. Things like outward bound build integrity and make you proud of yourself. When you are proud of yourself I think you will be less likely to draw attention in negative ways. Other things like drama, volunteering, youth groups, etc. If she can get in with a couple really good friends it will help keep her in check. Sports is a give and take with positive and negatives.

 

[wookie130]

I don't think we should blow any of this out of proportion...the self-piercing thing for a 13 year-old actually isn't that uncommon...I've had plenty of students who have done so. And dyed their hair various colors (some of which I personally like), given each other India ink tattoos, among other fashion "statements."

Piercing is not indicative of sexual activity, drug or alcohol use, or any other destructive behavior. Perhaps she's influenced by the fashion statements portrayed in music videos, older people she's been exposed to, movies, or she just likes the look of it. IT'S JUST A PIERCING. Nothing more, nothing less. It does sound like she's dabbled in more serious behaviors...such as the cigarettes and alcohol. I'll admit she's quite young to be engaging in these activities...but through these behaviors, what is she trying to accomplish? Is she attention seeking? Is she trying to be accepted by her peers? Who are her peers? Is she being influenced by an older crowd? These are just some questions to ask yourself, because if she's engaged in more serious behavior, you have to find out WHY before you can work to help the situation.

 

[fwan]

I am just stating from what i have seen, and since i am not far from the younger generation.
They grow up way to fast

 

[zissou'smom]

Yea... I don't think we need jump to conclusions. In the past few years, piercings/tattoos/weird hair colors aren't that big a deal. When my sister was in school, people with that sort of thing were super weird and on the "fringes" or from New York or California. Now, I'd say by college-age, about half of people I know have a piercing, tat, or both. It's not that rebellious, just is in this case because of her age and that she was told not to.

I've had purple hair, got a huge tat in high school when I was 18, and have a nose piercing, but I barely drank in high school and I didn't do anything my mother would be ashamed of, at least not until I was 18.

I do agree with you though that 13 is a good age for "the talk" in general, and warnings about binge drinking and smoking.

 

[dixie_darlin]

I think she is showing some remorse. She took it out and said she was sorry. i think this was more of a peer pressure thing then anything. She doesn't seem like they type so go off and start sleeping around. I DO think she needs to be grounded for a little while with a few privilages taken away. All in all I think she seen what she did is wrong and that's more to say for then ALOT of teenage kids these days!