Dietary fads

[1CatOverTheLine]

 
  BTW - I was referring to the healthy pets as the ambassadors, not the pet owners.

Thanks for the clarification.

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[orange&white]

A healthy pet speaks for itself...without one word. 

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I am sorry you feel my stating Hill's is crap is base but, I am by no means alone.
 

Not being alone in one's thinking doesn't make it correct.

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[1CatOverTheLine]

 
A healthy pet speaks for itself...without one word. 

"True" - as they say in the modern vernacular - "dat."  I've seen virtually no health issues in my cats over more than five decades of feeding commercial foods, and mine generally approach or exceed twenty years without incident.

While I've never fed Hill's' products, my cats have always fed ad libitum, and as well have always had broad choices in wet food throughout the day.  None are deemed overweight by my veterinarian, who sees them generally once a week, as he's a regular guest in my home, and although my Norwegian Forest is more than 30 pounds, at well over forty inches, he's simply massive in every dimension.

An aside: environmental conditions play a large part in the overall scheme of cats' health, and diet is simply one - although certainly among the largest - consideration of feline lifestyles.  A cat who's overweight owed to a lifestyle which is too sedentary is at no little risk; a cat always on the verge of hunger owed to a well-meaning owner's belief that cats should be fed only at regular intervals, and kept "thin" is at risk;  A cat exposed to unsanitary conditions is at risk; a cat exposed to tobacco smoke, wood smoke, or an air quality environment high in certain microparticulates is at risk; a cat (and people) exposed to sodium bentonite in clumping cat litter, or to sodium hypochlorite fumes from litterboxes not sufficiently washed, rinsed and air dried after bleaching, or to chemicals put down by lawn services is at (enormous) risk.  A raw diet adds yet another possible risk to a cat's already 'risky' Life. 

My personal opinion is that the risks posed by commercial foods are much lower (and rather less severe) than the risks posed by raw diets.  Quality control in the production (not the later storage during distribution) of pet foods is actually pretty scrupulous these days in America thanks to the oversight of several Federal regulatory agencies.  Conversely, I've never heard a proponent of raw diets state that before feeding, he or she does even a cursory microscopic examination of the meat being fed, for either obligate or facultative aerobic microorganisms or parasites.  If there were a game show on television called, "Russian Roulette," I might let my cats watch it, but I certainly wouldn't let them be contestants.

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[kittens mom]

 
An, "ambassador," is generally defined as someone who, by dint of diplomacy, acts as a representative or promoter of a specified activity or cause.   I'd hardly say that calling Hill's Science diet, "garbage," is in any way diplomatic, and, in point of fact, such statements as this and the misinformation about Hill's not producing grain-free foods in both dry and canned forms (one click to their website will show this) serve only to cast those who make such statements as being out of touch.

I don't feed Hill's products, so I've no horse in this race, but to impugn the reputation and products of a company which has made such strides in animal nutrition is positively base.  Dr. Mark Morris was the legitimate forerunner in veterinary clinical nutrition, and in concert with his Son, paved the road for modern commercial diets - especially those which are condition-specific, such as food intended for animals with kidney ailments, and those tailored to the age of pets, as regards nutritional needs.  Countless numbers of modern pet owners owe the Morrisses and their research a debt of gratitude, and to refer to this - or to any other commercial pet food as, "garbage," is - in my personal opinion - reprehensible.

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Can I say some of the ingredients are garbage. I did fine it odd , and I know the bag of SD kitten kibble was part of the kitten package was full of corn but I believe the HIlls grain free which I have fed was for sale in the lobby.

My kits were raised on Nutro Kitten , far from perfect but here comes Mercy with her finicky mouth and extra sensitive digestion. And this is what she will eat. I have no idea what she was being fed by the humans who dumped her back at the shelter but she was a greasy mess and could clear the house using the litter box.

There is this constant pressure to feed them better and I put it on myself.

 

[jcat]

One thing I will say about fad diets: they have given us a lot more options! I have a cat who can't have grains or chicken due to intolerances and vomiting, and we're still figuring out what else triggers her licking off her fur. If it weren't for fads, it would be a lot harder to find grain free, limited ingredient, novel protein diets. And they are becoming more affordable, which is good for those of us that don't have a ton of money to spend but don't have a choice but to feed "alternative" foods. I don't know what we would do if these fads weren't becoming more popular.

That's been my experience, too. Our cat has IBD and food intolerances (all grains & chicken, and he doesn't tolerate lamb very well; he also can't eat raw due to the fat content). He has to eat single-protein, low-fat, grain-free canned food. Luckily there are now numerous varieties, both prescription and non-prescription, that he does very well on.

It's not just "fads" that have increased the choices, but also the melamine scandal, IMO.

 

[manx]

 

[orange&white]

​Oh my goodness....That bird is on the popcorn diet fad....totally species inappropriate!  LOL

 

[Anne]

Take a look at the ingredients listed in a bag of Hills. The first you see is corn...

I had to check that because it sounded too strange. Is that what Lisa Pierson claims? I went to their website and randomly picked three common dry food types for cats. All had chicken as the first ingredient. They all contain grain as well (wheat and corn) high on the ingredient list but it's never the first ingredient. 

I don't feed that Hills / Science Diet and I'm not promoting them as a good choice. Just saying that you have your facts wrong there.

As for those live healthy ambassadors of raw food, as others have said, many cats are wonderful ambassadors of dry cat food, living well into their late teens and beyond in great health. My own opinion is that the obesity and the disease it brings (diabetes etc) is probably the result of cats becoming indoor-only pets. I'm not saying they should be let outdoors, just that living indoors is a more sedentary lifestyle and combined with free-feeding can lead to obesity in many cats (not all). Free-feeding is more commonly done with dry food which also has a higher caloric density. Nothing to do with grain or carbs, just plain old calories. 

 

[orange&white]

Knowing that cats are obligate carnivores, more and more people don't like to see a lot of grains (or pay premium prices for cheap ingredients and non-nutritive fillers).  Food labels are required to be listed by weight of the ingredients.

Technically, a food that boldly markets "Chicken as the Number 1 Ingredient!" can actually look like this:

			Meat	Non-Meat
Chicken,		17.00%	17.00%	0.00%
Whole Grain Wheat,		15.00%	0.00%	15.00%
Corn Gluten Meal,		15.00%	0.00%	15.00%
Pork Fat, Powdered		15.00%	15.00%	0.00%
Cellulose,		14.00%	0.00%	14.00%
Wheat Gluten,		8.00%	0.00%	8.00%
Brewers Rice,		8.00%	0.00%	8.00%
Dried Beet Pulp		8.00%	0.00%	8.00%
		100.00%	32.00%	68.00%

Then nutritionist/chemists, the science people, have to figure out how to add synthetic supplements so that the above recipe doesn't kill the cat.  So, under the identifiable food ingredients, we have a list of additives like this: 

Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Green Peas, Natural Flavors, Apples, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli, Beta-Carotene

Sure, it passed the AFCO test for nutritional completeness, and it won't kill the cat.

 

[ReallySleepy]

 As for those live healthy ambassadors of raw food, as others have said, many cats are wonderful ambassadors of dry cat food, living well into their late teens and beyond in great health. My own opinion is that the obesity and the disease it brings (diabetes etc) is probably the result of cats becoming indoor-only pets. I'm not saying they should be let outdoors, just that living indoors is a more sedentary lifestyle and combined with free-feeding can lead to obesity in many cats (not all). Free-feeding is more commonly done with dry food which also has a higher caloric density. Nothing to do with grain or carbs, just plain old calories. 

Wise words from Anne. I think we all agree that wet food is preferable, but the matter has been blown out of all proportions on cat forums. My own cat gets about 1/3 of his nutrition from dry food, and I see no reason to change that. Dry food is also more practical in many connections. If I go on a holiday, dry food is much easier for a neighbor to handle. Moreover, he gets tired of his wet food at times, so I have to rotate the brands and flavors, and I even have to discard a can now and then - not the sort of hassle that I would wish to impose on a neighbor. For these and other reasons I keep giving him dry food.

Not to mention that dry foods differ enormously in their composition. Acana Wild Prairie, which is what my cat eats, looks like a wholesome product to me.

Just wanted to add a note about the indoor/outdoor issue. It is generally taken for granted that indoor=sedentary and outdoor=active. Generally right, but there is more to it. Outdoor cats also have to cope with low temperatures. My own cat is quite lethargic, even outdoors, and I don't believe the extra exercise supposedly obtained by being outdoors accounts for much. But low temperatures certainly do. Almost every winter he will take off a pound or two, and this is certainly due to freezing temperatures rather than activity.

Another point about being outdoors is that he will skip meals. As far as my own cat is concerned, I am sure that the combined effect of low temperatures and missing meals is what really helps against obesity.

 

[danteshuman]

Knowing what I know,if I had to do it over again, I would feed my new kitten only healthy wet food. Dogs are omnivores (like us.) Cats are carnivores. It is that simple. I'm trying to push wet food on my adult cats (10 &11) to get them to eat less dry food. Also chicken is the #1 cat food allergy. So not feeding them dry food that includes that would probably be in their best long term interests. They spray the outside of dry cat food with animal fat to get cats to eat it! (Most cats swallow dry food whole.) That is like feeding little kids frosted flakes and calling it healthy!

That said I was raised with and had cats that lived 18-23 years off of dry/wet food (and wet food only when their teeth got bad.) We all try to do our best for our pets.

 

[abyeb]

No matter what you're feeding your cat (whether it's canned, dry, raw) the most important is that you're getting it from a reputable company.

http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/pet-food-recalls-wheres-the-outrage

 

[manx]

Dogs are omnivores (like us.)

No. Dogs are not omnivores like humans. Dogs are opportunistic carnivores. Meaning, they need meat to survive and to thrive but they can handle more plant matter in their diets than cats. It's a survival tactic not a permanent diet.

 

[shadowplay]

Wise words from Anne. I think we all agree that wet food is preferable, but the matter has been blown out of all proportions on cat forums. My own cat gets about 1/3 of his nutrition from dry food, and I see no reason to change that. Dry food is also more practical in many connections. If I go on a holiday, dry food is much easier for a neighbor to handle. Moreover, he gets tired of his wet food at times, so I have to rotate the brands and flavors, and I even have to discard a can now and then - not the sort of hassle that I would wish to impose on a neighbor. For these and other reasons I keep giving him dry food.

Not to mention that dry foods differ enormously in their composition. Acana Wild Prairie, which is what my cat eats, looks like a wholesome product to me.

Just wanted to add a note about the indoor/outdoor issue. It is generally taken for granted that indoor=sedentary and outdoor=active. Generally right, but there is more to it. Outdoor cats also have to cope with low temperatures. My own cat is quite lethargic, even outdoors, and I don't believe the extra exercise supposedly obtained by being outdoors accounts for much. But low temperatures certainly do. Almost every winter he will take off a pound or two, and this is certainly due to freezing temperatures rather than activity.

Another point about being outdoors is that he will skip meals. As far as my own cat is concerned, I am sure that the combined effect of low temperatures and missing meals is what really helps against obesity.

I agree with this. My kittens get dry food as well as wet food, and right now I do not intend on switching. As a grad student I am sometimes gone for long hours, so I need to leave something out for my growing cats to eat. One of my cats is a bit on the small side, but she can be picky about wet foods and she loves her kibble, so there's that aspect as well. I make sure she gets enough water and give them those gravy treats in addition to wet food 2-3x per day, so I'm relatively confident dyhydration isn't an issue for her. I feed them a mix of Blue Wilderness with Orijen and sometimes topped with the Nature's Variety freeze dried bites, which they love and it seems healthy enough to me.

Their weigh and exercise level is more of a concern. I've never had indoor cats before, and I really want to prevent obesity. I do not over feed, but ensuring good healthy activity can be a challenge! I've picked up some leashes for them so I can hopefully take them out on adventures when it warms up.