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- #81
And why is that?
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Dietary fads
- Thread starter livelovepurr
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- #82
I've never even heard of that dog food brand. But I will say that there is evidence that the price of a brand of food correlates with its quality.
I am not knocking brands either. This topic is mostly about the dangers of raw foods and improperly cooked homemade food. Those are the two things I've been attacking and I'm holding my ground because they aren't safe and there's overwhelming evidence that supports my claim.
And before I switched to Royal Canin, I used Purina One. I found it to be less rich than the other food brands and my cats has less frequent GI upset. And I've noticed even less GI issues since I switched to Royal Canin. One of my cats, my 13 year old in particular, used to have frequent hairball episodes. It used to be a daily thing, sometimes more than once a day. Now it's every 2-3 weeks.
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Yes, I typed the wrong word by mistake. Sorry, again, for the confusion.
Kittens Mom linked the FDA article about the pentobarbital found in pet food and the investigation to test for cat and dog DNA in the food.
Evangers is marketed as a higher-end, quality, more expensive brand. They've had multiple recall problems plus corruption in their upper management. They pretty much trashed their reputation. Now people don't even want to buy competing brands manufactured in the same plant.
Because that's what cats have been eating forever, up until very very recently.
I kind of find the commercial food argument to be something along the lines of "you absolutely HAVE TO give your kids Pediacare, or they won't get the proper nutrition! No average parent could hope to provide anything approaching a balanced diet!" And, yeah, cats are specialized carnivores and need a narrower diet than an omnivore human, but that doesn't mean that someone can't provide a balanced diet for their cat (or other pet) after doing a reasonable amount of research.
Not that I give my cats homemade food. I don't have time for that---I mostly eat TV dinners myself. But I consider commercial foods to be the TV dinners of the pet world :tongue2:. I'd do homemade if I could. Probably cooked not raw, because half of them wouldn't deign to touch raw, lol. I did homecook for a sick cat for about 6 months, and she did great.
You really hit on something there. We tend to think of products coming from separate factories when in fact some factories produce multiple brands.
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- #87
I don't blame them at all. That's why I wish there was more regulation in the pet food industry.
Most canned foods are produced in the same plant as other brands. There aren't very many pet food companies with their own canning facilities. I think only Purina, Hill's, and Iams have their own.
So do raw feeders. That's one of the top reasons many people switched...to have control over ingredients and preparation. The Chinese melamine incident scared a lot of people over to homemade.
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- #90
Right, and wild cats harbor things like salmonella, listeria, and e. coli. I'm sorry that I'd rather not live in a home with four cats that can potentially make me or friends and family ill because I choose to feed them raw food. I honestly don't know how many times that I have to say that raw food contains pathogens most of the time. I really don't. Do you know the life expectancy of wild and feral cats? 4.5 years. This is due to predation and illness. Is it so unbelievable that wild animals die so early? I get really tired of the wild animal argument. They may have the same dietary requirements, but I'd rather mine receive their nutrition from a food that is a lower pathogenic risk than raw food is.
I heard you the first time.
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I really don't know what to say or think about trends in pet food. There's so much conflicting information out there, and sometimes a lack of information where necessary. I'd love to see more research done on raw diets, both homemade and commercially available. With so many pet owners starting to feed raw, I think research in this area is crucial.
My rule of thumb is feed what is nutritionally complete, and what your cats will actually eat. My cats like and have done well on Purina/Hill's/Royal Canin canned foods as well as "trendier" varieties. They do appear healthier since I switched their dry food from Purina One, but I don't know what caused the change: is it because the food is "healthier" or is it because they simply seem to like the taste better?
I DO think the pet food industry needs to be better regulated and that pet food and ingredients should be inspected more.
My rule of thumb is feed what is nutritionally complete, and what your cats will actually eat. My cats like and have done well on Purina/Hill's/Royal Canin canned foods as well as "trendier" varieties. They do appear healthier since I switched their dry food from Purina One, but I don't know what caused the change: is it because the food is "healthier" or is it because they simply seem to like the taste better?
I DO think the pet food industry needs to be better regulated and that pet food and ingredients should be inspected more.
Kibble contains pathogens most of the time too :dk:.
And, I mean, most people whose cats go out and eat nasty mice don't get sick from their cat. I suppose it might be a problem for immunosuppressed people but let's not wrap ourselves in bubble wrap.
But if it bothers you so much, promote a homecooked diet instead.
And, I mean, most people whose cats go out and eat nasty mice don't get sick from their cat. I suppose it might be a problem for immunosuppressed people but let's not wrap ourselves in bubble wrap.
But if it bothers you so much, promote a homecooked diet instead.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #94
I will link one of several studies done on pathogens found in commercial pet foods so that you can actually take the time and do your research before you make your argument about the frequency of pathogens found in kibble vs raw:
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/fpd.2014.1748#/doi/abs/10.1089/fpd.2014.1748
Common sense because pets didn't start existing with the advent of commercial cooked food. Today my snakes had rodents, my iguana had a fresh collard green and squash salad, my ferrets had mice with a quail later, my dogs had beef tongue, pork liver and duck. The new cat got canned with some raw snuck in to get her with the program. Ooooh the horrors, the bacteria!!!!! We will all try to survive somehow, wish us luck and have a good night folks.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #96
Just wash your hands after handling your animals, especially reptiles and don't make fish the primary diet for your cat
Goodnight.PS-cats live longer today than they did when they began to turn domesticated.
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They do, but I think this is due to better protection from predators, disease prevention (both vaccines/medical and sanitary reasons), birth control, and generally better care. I don't think commercial foods have a lot to do with it. Except to make it easier for busy people to feed a balanced diet. So maybe on that account---a lot of pets might be ill if their busy owners didn't feed them a balanced diet. But for someone with the time/inclination to make a balanced homemade diet, I don't think their pets will suffer from it or have a shorter lifespan.
Cats live longer today...
The longest-lived cat was an Austin, Texas cat named Creme Puff, who lived to be 38 years old.
Crème Puff ate bacon and eggs, asparagus, broccoli, coffee with heavy cream, and mayonnaise.
Crème Puff's owner, Jake Perry, had a second cat, "Grandpa", on the same diet who also broke a longevity record, living to be 34 years old.
(One of my earlier points was...Let's not judge what other people feed their cats. Just feed yours the diet that you decide is best for your cat.)
The longest-lived cat was an Austin, Texas cat named Creme Puff, who lived to be 38 years old.
Crème Puff ate bacon and eggs, asparagus, broccoli, coffee with heavy cream, and mayonnaise.
Crème Puff's owner, Jake Perry, had a second cat, "Grandpa", on the same diet who also broke a longevity record, living to be 34 years old.
(One of my earlier points was...Let's not judge what other people feed their cats. Just feed yours the diet that you decide is best for your cat.)
More...
One other cat named Lucy, from South Wales, is believed to have lived 39 years (but there was no proof of Lucy's exact birth date). She was a mouser.
One other cat named Lucy, from South Wales, is believed to have lived 39 years (but there was no proof of Lucy's exact birth date). She was a mouser.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #100
A few cats that had extensive life spans, even after the terrible food (I mean, bacon, coffee, heavy cream, and mayonnaise?) doesn't mean that every cat will survive many years with those diets.
That's the equivalent of saying everybody eating McDonald's on a daily basis will live long, healthy lives when in reality many of them will die early from heart disease and/or diabetes. Plus, I'm doubtful that those cats thrived off of only those foods. It is biophysically impossible.
And I'm not judging anybody. Why do you even think that? I'm having a debate on the dangers of some choices people make. I'm stating facts. I haven't singled anybody out and scolded them for feeding a raw diet. The only person singled out was me for not being easily persuaded.
Yes, cats are living longer due to better care and protection from predators. Better care also happens to include protection from bacteria found in raw meat.
Here is an article on pathogens found in wildlife: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...hQDIek7-wFBrHsRxA&sig2=aSKD_p04RP-xSmEt0DFPkA
Study on pathogens found in wild hares:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1995764516300360
Diseases found in wildlife: https://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/pets/wildlife.html
Pathogens found in feral cats on Christmas Island: http://media.murdoch.edu.au/potentially-serious-pathogens-found-in-feral-cats-on-christmas-island
The point of these articles is to show you that pathogens are everywhere, including the wild animals that cats eat. Yes, wild and domestic cats do eat wild animals and have done so for thousands of years. BUT, they were and are exposed to the many disease-causing pathogens out there. And they can still have these diseases and be asymptomatic. Sometimes, the pathogen does cause disease and that's when things go south quickly.
Commercial foods don't take that risk away 100%. That is clear. I never said it did. That's like saying vaccinations protect our pets 100% when they don't. What I said is that feeding raw food is putting your pets and your families at risk for infection from these diseases.
With that being said, I think I've linked enough information for this debate. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point. It is our duty to protect and care for our pets. If you want to feed a raw diet, fine. Just realize the risk you're taking. If you want to feed your pets a home cooked diet, fine. Just make sure it's a well-rounded diet with all the the nutrional requirements that your pet needs.
That's the equivalent of saying everybody eating McDonald's on a daily basis will live long, healthy lives when in reality many of them will die early from heart disease and/or diabetes. Plus, I'm doubtful that those cats thrived off of only those foods. It is biophysically impossible.
And I'm not judging anybody. Why do you even think that? I'm having a debate on the dangers of some choices people make. I'm stating facts. I haven't singled anybody out and scolded them for feeding a raw diet. The only person singled out was me for not being easily persuaded.
Yes, cats are living longer due to better care and protection from predators. Better care also happens to include protection from bacteria found in raw meat.
Here is an article on pathogens found in wildlife: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...hQDIek7-wFBrHsRxA&sig2=aSKD_p04RP-xSmEt0DFPkA
Study on pathogens found in wild hares:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1995764516300360
Diseases found in wildlife: https://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/pets/wildlife.html
Pathogens found in feral cats on Christmas Island: http://media.murdoch.edu.au/potentially-serious-pathogens-found-in-feral-cats-on-christmas-island
The point of these articles is to show you that pathogens are everywhere, including the wild animals that cats eat. Yes, wild and domestic cats do eat wild animals and have done so for thousands of years. BUT, they were and are exposed to the many disease-causing pathogens out there. And they can still have these diseases and be asymptomatic. Sometimes, the pathogen does cause disease and that's when things go south quickly.
Commercial foods don't take that risk away 100%. That is clear. I never said it did. That's like saying vaccinations protect our pets 100% when they don't. What I said is that feeding raw food is putting your pets and your families at risk for infection from these diseases.
With that being said, I think I've linked enough information for this debate. I feel like I'm repeating myself at this point. It is our duty to protect and care for our pets. If you want to feed a raw diet, fine. Just realize the risk you're taking. If you want to feed your pets a home cooked diet, fine. Just make sure it's a well-rounded diet with all the the nutrional requirements that your pet needs.
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