Dietary fads

[livelovepurr]

Please tell me I'm not the only one very annoyed at all the dietary fads going on with our pets today. Raw diets, home-made diets, grain-free, vegetable-free, etc.

All of these are fads. And please, for the love of all things good, if you're going to cook your cat's meal, make sure you're getting GOOD recipes that supply all of the nutrition that your cat needs, which is very complex.

 

[cindycrna]

You're not going to get much support here for that statement! I see you like Hill's. Science diet sucks big time! Lets look at a kidney care can: Water, Chicken, Pork Liver, Carrots, Rice, Chicken Fat, Spinach, Corn Starch, Wheat Gluten, Chicken Liver Flavor, . Maybe phosphorus levels are decreased so they call it kidney care. Here's digestive care: Chicken, Cracked Pearled Barley, Corn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Chicken Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Egg Product, This is just the first line of the ingredients. Here's dry weight control: Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Tomato Pomace, Flaxseed, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Flavor, . What the hell is this crap? A cat's not supposed to eat this crap!


Here's the first few of Stella and Chewy's uck (Ground With Bone), Turkey, Turkey Liver, Goose, Turkey Gizzard, Pumpkin Seed, They add pea protein which I don't really care for but no corn or gluten.

Nature's Variety Instinct: Chicken (Including Ground Chicken Bone), Chicken Liver, Chicken Heart, Pumpkinseeds, Salmon Oil


I'm sorry but your statement is like saying eating meat, fruit and vegetables is a fad because Mc Donald's is where it's at!

 

[livelovepurr]

I am not saying Hill's is the only food out there. I do support them, seeing as they're the world's leading experts in dog and cat nutrition. You won't find the wide range of diets with many other products. Phosphorous happens to by a product of protein, so a diet less in protein is needed for renal cats. The digestive care is low in fat, something you won't find in many other products; most products are very rich.

I'm not knocking the other brands either. What I'm knocking are the raw diets everybody seems so inclined with using, then wondering why their pet is having GI issues. And I'm knocking homemade diets because many times people think they're doing something good, when they're causing harm and usually causing some kind of deficiency in their diet. With many cats, it's taurine. I'm knocking the grain-free and vegetable-free because grains and vegetables are not harming our pets. They supplement dry food with the remaining calories as well as make your cat feel full longer. Grain-free happens to be a fad that started after it started with us. Notice everything that is gluten-free these days because suddenly everybody thinks gluten is evil. It isn't. There ARE some people and pets that have an allergy to certain grains. But it seems like EVERYBODY is searching for these key terms when looking for a food product. And it isn't just on this site, it's all over, including both veterinary clinics I work at. And people have an issue with the word by-product. Do you even know what that means? It's the left over animal that we don't eat! Nothing goes to waste because the heart, brains, bones, other organs from the other animals that we do eat go directly to our pet food. That isn't a bad thing at all.

Anyway, there might not be somebody on this site that thinks the way I do, but I do know that all of my co-workers, nurses and doctors, do and that's enough for me.

 

[cindycrna]

Hill's is the world's leading authority? Says who, Hills? Prescription diets are a money makers for vets but most are crap and many pet owners simply can't afford a clean diet for their pet. Personally, I don't want the work of homemade raw and I don't feel raw is the end all to end all but it is the gold standard in nutrition. Hills can't hold a candle.

For the record, I just ate a Whopper so no health food nut here but I do know pet obesity is an issue and commercial food the culprit.

 

[abyeb]

I agree with cindycrna 's posts above. I'd just like to add that another concern with commercial diets is the alarming number of recalls... some of which could be deadly for pets.

http://www.hillspet.com/en/us/about...e-diet-adult-small-and-toy-breed-dry-dog-food

 

[cattings]

Considering the fact that cats cannot use the nutrients in grains, vegetables, and starches, and cats eating these have shown an alarming number of health issues, I will happily stick to these "fad diets," haha.

The issue with "by-product" is pretty legit...I'm a hobby taxidermist and a friend in the community would pick out skulls from a pile of dead animals a local farmer kept - that was roadkill found nearby, any "pest" animals he had shot to protect his crops, any of his own animals that had died - in a stinking pile, until a pet food plant would pick it all for rendering. That was not a daily pick up. 

There are plenty of studies (that are not done by the pet food company themselves, as many studies stating how healthy and natural kibble is are) that show how cats' entire bodies are designed to eat meat and only meat. I'm the book "Feline Nutrition: Nutrition for the Optimum Health and Longevity of your Cat" by Lynn Curtis a comprehensive factual guide to the nutritional needs and functions of cats.

 

[abyeb]

Yes, fruits, vegetables, and grains are just empty calories in cat food that felines don't need. Metabolically, domestic cats are the same as their wild cousins. You'll never see a Bobcat climbing a tree to get an apple... because they don't need fruit.

 

[orange&white]

Raw and cooked food for pets was very common before commercial "pet food" came onto the scene in the 1950's.  There were a few "pet foods" before then, but they were intended to supplement what people were feeding...raw bits of meats while preparing human meals, and scraps of fats and some veggies leftover after dinner.  No one ever heard of IBD, pet diabetes, chronic kidney diseases, food allergies, etc. etc. etc.

So raw food and home cooked food for pets is hardly a fad.  Pets were domesticated and survived thousands of years before "pet food".  If anything, more and more people are ditching the 60-70 year fad of processed "pet food" and going back to feeding traditional diets:  fresh foods suitable for human consumption...and today we know more about nutritional balance.  True, some pet owners can screw up their pets by not knowing how to balance a diet, I'll give you that.

We raw and home cooked feeders are biased because of the good results we've seen in our pets.  Veterinarians and clinic employees are biased because the "scientific food" companies spend a lot of money marketing and "educating" them on the value of their products, and lobbying the AVMA.

I say it all makes for a good debate, and each person's opinion is to be respected the same as the next person's.  My neighbors for a few years were vet techs.  We had some really interesting conversations about pet nutrition.  They still believe in Science Diet.  I still believe in raw.  We're still friends. 

And please, for the love of all things good, if you're going to cook your cat's meal, make sure you're getting GOOD recipes that supply all of the nutrition that your cat needs.

Very good advice.  It really is not that complicated.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Originally Posted by Orange&White  

Pets were domesticated and survived thousands of years before "pet food". 

The overwhelming majority of those "domesticated" cats had at least some live prey in their diets.

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[IndyJones]

Only thing I really don't like seeing is mystery meat meat byproduct animal byproduct animal fat etc all mystery meat.

What animals are they talking about? Fish? Pork? Horse? Dog? Too vague

 

[orange&white]

 
The overwhelming majority of those "domesticated" cats had at least some live prey in their diets.

.

That's very true.  Before the industrial age, we used to be an agrarian culture with a majority of people employed in farming and ranching.  Pet cats and some dog breeds were expected to earn their keep and hunt their own raw food...mousers, ratters, (barn cats).  Some dog breeds were dependent on their humans for food...but this being a cat site, that's not really relevant.

My grandmother had a cat which lived 22 years and went out hunting every night.  The cat brought home a catch every morning for my grandmother to praise before the cat ate the prized quarry, then came inside to sleep for the day.  I remember my grandmother putting meat cuttings in the cat's bowl ahead of dinner and some of the after-dinner scraps...and always worrying that the cat didn't eat enough.  lol  That cat was livin' the feline dream of a mostly whole prey raw diet.

 

[livelovepurr]

Study done on commercial dry and raw foods. Note that raw foods were found to contain more salmonella and listeria species than dry: http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/fpd.2014.1748#/doi/full/10.1089/fpd.2014.1748

"
There are no regulatory definitions of instinctual or ancestral diets; therefore, the nutrient composition of commercial pet food products may not accurately apply to instinctual or ancestral nutritional philosophies."
"research in cats indicates they select 52% of their ME from protein, 36% from fat, and 12% from carbohydrates (Hewson-Hughes et al., 2011)."
"Both dogs and cats have the ability enzymatically (maltase, sucrose, and lactase) to digest carbohydrates (Hore and Messer, 1968). Morris et al. (1977) showed cats are able to efficiently digest glucose, sucrose, lactose, dextrin, and starch (apparent digestibility 94–100%)."
"both high (47% energy from carbohydrate compared to 26–27%) or low (7% energy from carbohydrate compared to 25–29%) concentrations of dietary carbohydrate reduce insulin sensitivity in cats (Farrow et al., 2002; Verbrugghe et al., 2010). Additionally, while protein intake of 48 versus 28% energy from protein does not affect insulin sensitivity (Leray et al., 2006), high concentrations of dietary fat (51% energy from fat compared to 33%) reduces glucose tolerance in cats (Thiess et al., 2004)."
"It should be noted, however, that handling, processing, and preservation by an ingredient supplier is a large contributor to the variability in nutritional value of animal products (Parsons et al., 1997), and therefore ingredient supplier practices may be more important than ingredient type (i.e., raw vs. rendered) when assessing quality or nutritional value of animal products."
"Processing method is also an important influencer of food safety. With respect to food processing, unpasteurized raw foods would most closely match wild prey and therefore align with a natural pet nutrition philosophy. However, there are safety concerns with the pathogenic bacteria found in many raw meats. Studies have demonstrated that raw or undercooked animal-source protein may be contaminated with a variety of pathogenic organisms, including Salmonella spp., Campylobacter spp., Clostridium spp., Escherichia coli, Listeria monocytogenes, and enterotoxigenic Staphylococcus aureus (Freeman and Michel, 2001; LeJeune and Hancock, 2001; Joffe and Schlesinger, 2002; Stiver et al., 2003; Weese et al., 2005; Finley et al., 2006)."
"raw food diets can pose risk for metabolic disease depending on the parts of the animal used in the diet. For example, clinical cases of dietary hyperthyroidism have been reported in dogs fed bone and raw food diets, which was reversed by feeding commercial pet food (Kohler et al., 2012)."
"The increased demand for these products has centered on the consumer belief that these products are of high quality and safe, made from ingredients that fit an individual’s concept of natural, and provide functional health benefits. Different regulatory definitions have been described by the AAFCO and FEDIAF for natural pet food ingredients and products; however, most consumers have their own perceptions of what should be considered natural based on personal experiences, biases, or preferences. In the absence of data on the impact of natural pet food on pet health, some pet food companies target diet formulation and ingredients based on teleological reasoning that dogs and cats should eat a diet resembling that of related wild species."
There is not enough research to support diets containing whole foods. People think are anthropomorphing the pet food industry:
https://dl.sciencesocieties.org/publications/jas/articles/92/9/3781

"Rendering plants process a variety of raw materials from food animal production, principally offal from slaughterhouses, but include whole animals that die on farms or in transit and other materials such as bone, feathers, and blood. By recycling these byproducts into various protein, fat, and mineral products, including meat and bone meal, hydrolyzed feather meal, blood meal, and various types of animal fats and greases, the sustainability of food animal production is greatly enhanced."
"The rendering industry is conscious of its role in the prevention of disease and microbiological control and providing safe feed ingredients for livestock, poultry, aquaculture, and pets. The processing of otherwise low-value OM from the livestock production and meat processing industries through rendering drastically reduces the amount of waste. If not rendered, biological materials would be deposited in landfills, burned, buried, or inappropriately dumped with large amounts of carbon dioxide, ammonia, and other compounds polluting air and water."
Sustainability for meat by-products:
https://dl.sciencesocieties.org/publications/jas/articles/93/3/835

There are many more scholarly articles out there. I urge everybody to read actual studies done and stay subjective on actual nutrition, rather than just sticking to what some random person on the internet says. There isn't much regulation with commercial pet foods, so yes, I do prefer brands that do follow guidelines set by the AAFCO. My cats are on a Royal Canin diet, one of which is for my older female that is lower in protein and phosphorous to protect her kidneys from potential renal failure, something very common in older cats.

I personally know a veterinarian that spent a large portion of his career in the pet food industry and later being one of the admitting members of the college for veterinary medicine at the University of Ohio, and later owning his own small animal clinic, then later teaching animal anatomy and physiology. I learned a lot from this man and still keep in touch with him. The pet food industry is mainly based on fads and what the buyers want, not what the animals need. I trust some products more than I trust others and you can't blame me. Until there is more regulation and commercial pet food companies are required to have a set amount of nutrients in their food products, I'll go with what I trust. And I trust Hill's, Royal Canin, and some Purina products.

One thing that is always said is if your pet is doing well on a pet food, then it's fine for them. So if you have found a product that works for your pet (not you), great. Some pets do great on Meow Mix and some people can't afford to buy more expensive brands. As long as they're getting their nutritional requirements, I'm happy. But with the raw food fad, people are putting their pets at a higher risk for serious bacterial infections that can kill their beloved furbabies.

Anyway, I know I'm not the only one skeptical about these so-called natural diets and will happily stick to what I know is adequate for my cats.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

 
That's very true.  Before the industrial age, we used to be an agrarian culture with a majority of people employed in farming and ranching.  Pet cats and some dog breeds were expected to earn their keep and hunt their own raw food...mousers, ratters, (barn cats).  Some dog breeds were dependent on their humans for food...but this being a cat site, that's not really relevant.

My grandmother had a cat which lived 22 years and went out hunting every night.  The cat brought home a catch every morning for my grandmother to praise before the cat ate the prized quarry, then came inside to sleep for the day.  I remember my grandmother putting meat cuttings in the cat's bowl ahead of dinner and some of the after-dinner scraps...and always worrying that the cat didn't eat enough.  lol  That cat was livin' the feline dream of a mostly whole prey raw diet.

Yep, livin' the feline dream - eatin' those wild mousies, with their thick fatty insulating layers and their all-grain high carb diets.

.

 

[abyeb]

Exactly. Cats were prized on farms as mousers, and that's what they ate! Naturally raw, vegetable-free, and grain-free.

 

[livelovepurr]

The difference between then and now that cats are living longer than they were in the 50's. You didn't see cats live to 17 years old, let alone 20. A lot of times they did die from disease found in the prey they caught.

 

[abyeb]

You didn't see cats live to 17 years old, let alone 20.

Mice do carry disease, but people who feed cats raw are not giving them mice they found in their backyard... they're giving them a variety of high-quality proteins. And farm cats can live pretty long, as Orange&White said...

My grandmother had a cat which lived 22 years and went out hunting every night

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

Exactly. Cats were prized on farms as mousers, and that's what they ate! Naturally raw, vegetable-free, and grain-free.

Mice are vegetable matter free?  Bones, cartilage and hair have been assisting in intestinal motility in felids for countless millennia, and serving as part and parcel to the genetic switch that turns off the appetite once proper taurine levels have been reached.  A well-fed healthy cat with no endocrine system abnormalities self-regulates for food intake by virtue of its own metabolic and genetic switches, and with sufficient exercise - even after de-sexing - won't become obese.  Sedentary lifestyle is the primary cause of obesity in domestic cats - at least that what every veterinary text avers.  Permit any felid to feed ad libitum and to live a sedentary lifestyle, and you'll see an array of medical problems, no matter the dietary specifics.

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[1CatOverTheLine]

Mice do carry disease, but people who feed cats raw are not giving them mice they found in their backyard... they're giving them a variety of high-quality proteins. And farm cats can live pretty long, as Orange&White said...

You're either being disingenuous or missing the point of live prey versus raw meat.

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[abyeb]

Mice are vegetable matter free?  Bones, cartilage and hair have been assisting in intestinal motility in felids for countless millennia, and serving as part and parcel to the genetic switch that turns off the appetite once proper taurine levels have been reached.  A well-fed healthy cat with no endocrine system abnormalities self-regulates for food intake by virtue of its own metabolic and genetic switches, and with sufficient exercise - even after de-sexing - won't become obese.  Sedentary lifestyle is the primary cause of obesity in domestic cats - at least that what every veterinary text avers.  Permit any felid to feed ad libitum and to live a sedentary lifestyle, and you'll see an array of medical problems, no matter the dietary specifics.

.

I realize this, however, they do not contain potatos, which I have read that some cats are sensitive to.

 

[1CatOverTheLine]

I realize this, however, they do not contain potatos, which I have read that some cats are sensitive to.

.No - I'll certainly concede that the majority of mice don't contain potatoes.

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