Chickster Growling at butt

[snickerdoodle]

Thanks LDG for the info!

I really am about to go nutty. I am not understanding this at all. She is now having fits AFTER each time I give her half a pill. She's done it for the last two days, she's swallowed the pills, and she's fine AFTER the fit, never again until in the morning, but I'm not understanding this and she's driving me up a wall!

She actually got a hold of her tail this morning but only seemed to catch it in her mouth. I feel of her tail throughout the day to make sure she hasn't injured it. And she hasn't, so far.

After medicating this morning she immediately left the bathroom and started her fit. I corralled her back into my bedroom and opened the window and laid on the bed while she sucked on her toe, I petted her and she looked out the window. She was fine. Until my mom hollered to ask me something and I had to get up, then she got some water and started the fit again.

I am so confused and my nerves are a wreck, and I know she's absolutely fed up with it because she is grunting loudly like a big exasperated sigh during her fits, as if saying "What in the HECK is going on, I'm so tired of this!"

I'm really starting to wonder if this isn't something to do with her bowels, because I know after I take my medication in the mornings, my bowels wake up (Sorry, TMI) and perhaps that is what is happening with her. I gave her a tiny bit more miralax yesterday and am hoping to see some change in her poop, whenever she decides to poop again.

Now she's cleaning herself, and the fit seems to have passed. Altogether I'd say that lasted (minus the distraction and the petting) about 5 minutes. I watch for cues from her, and her tail's twitching annoyedly again.

As soon as I get the check in the mail, I am taking her back to the vet. I have such a bad feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I'm looking for ways to comfort/distract her during these fits or before one comes on. I see the petting works, but I have to keep at it. If I stop and walk away she starts up again. I just wish I could find something that didn't involve me gluing myself to her backside for 2 hours, either with play or petting. IF I go bed, she'll come up and lay down and the fits won't happen, but my schedule doesn't work that way. Should I just change my schedule and go to bed earlier (I work 3rd, so I stay up until 10-11AM, maybe noon) like directly after giving her the medication?

Sigh.

 

[otto]

How long has Chickster been on the amitriptyline now? Perhaps it's time to start thinking about a diet change, (while still on the amitriptyline).

Administering the pill perhaps triggers an episode, if she feels stress when having it done, I don't know, just guessing there.

Generally with things like this "one a month" is considered tolerable, anything more needs to be controlled. I'm speaking in generalities here. Since it's never been determined definitely that this is neurological in nature, we can't know if each fit is doing any damage.

Your sense that it is related to her bowl habits should absolutely be explored. Is the miralax keeping her regular? Any straining when she goes? Do her stools look normal?

 

[otto]

almost forgot to tell you this:

Are you using a pill splitter? Tolly's pills are not scored either, and here is the best way I have found to get a clean split:

Wipe the blade between every use with a bit of dry bounty paper towel (I specify bounty because they have the least lint)

Put the pill in the splitter, under the blade, and let it sit for a few minutes. Even being in your hand for a second or two can make the pill slightly moist, which can affect the split. (I split Tolly's pill in the morning, so I set it up this way at night, and don't split it until the next morning)

So now you've got the pill in the splitter positioned down in the corner, with the blade resting lightly on it.

To get a good clean split, it's got to be quick and hard.

Don't push down on the splitter. Instead give it a fast hard smack, lifting your hand right up again. This, as long as the blade remains sharp, should give you a clean cut.

I've been splitting Tolly's pills for over 8 years, and this is what works. I replace the splitter once a year.

I use these:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...7ST7GQPQ5WTQXC

 

[snickerdoodle]

Her stools are nuggets usually and they're hard. I've been brushing her and she's never vomited a hairball but may pass some, though I've never seen them in her poop. I've given her miralax twice =This week= but so far no change. So today I went out and got her a toy from Petco, the Play N Squeak Tail Spin Mystery Tail Cat Toy, which she is absolutely going nuts over and near about to break it as she drags it around the house with her!! ( http://www.dog.com/item/play-n-squea...:referralID=NA) I also bought some Nutro Senior Food, the Chicken and Rice Formula. It was shaved down from 15 bucks to 5, and I thought we'd try it. Almost bought some Royal Canin "Selective" but it was 12 and we haven't had great success with RC.

I dropped a couple pieces on the floor for her and as much as she loves LOVES LOVES this new toy, she stopped and gobbled up the Nutro. She LOVES it. I've never seen her this excited to eat since she was eating Hill's C/D. SO, I mixed just a very small amount into her bowl and will slowly change her over. She pooped overnight, but it was hard.

So we will see about this food change, she refuses the Wellness Core. I asked the vet to call me and I'll go over the food with her. Soon I'll have her in there to get checked from top to bottom, no worries. especially her bowels. I'm concerned about mega colon and tons of other stuff.

Thanks

and the stupid pill cutter actually split perfectly in half this time! I do try to keep my hands off it as much as possible because the coating is already thin and chippy, and we had a bit of a tussle over taking it this morning but she's doing great right now. Le sigh, pills, liquid, it's a no win situation some days.

 

[taryn]

Figuring out pills or liquid can be a challenge. I know with Attitude we finally had to go with liquids because she wouldn't touch pills and pilling her wasn't working.

I think liquids get in their system faster. With doxy in pill form Attitude would puke after around an hour, with the liquid it was less than 15 minutes. If she ate she was fine but being stubborn she wouldn't always eat. It is easier and you have a more steady dose with pills than with liquids.

I hope she is easier to pill tomorrow.

Taryn

 

[snickerdoodle]

Yours looks nice Otto. I just picked this one up from the pharmacy: http://www.amazon.com/Safety-Shield-.../dp/B000BNZTM0 Apparently it takes a little finesse

(sp, hehe) Chickster reaaallly loves this toy guys. She hasn't played with a toy like this since I got her that ball stuck in a circle tube thing. So happy. Finally bed time

 

[otto]

I'm so glad you found something she likes. Doesn't it make you feel ridiculously good when they are happy with something we give them?

 

[snickerdoodle]

It feels like I hit the jackpot, yes. It just hurts me so bad when any animal seems unhappy and knowing I can most likely change it and can't figure it out makes it worse. The Nutro is still enjoyable today as is the toy, but I am giving the meds now.

I hope she doesn't break this toy, it was a bit expensive but worth it, she is dragging it everywhere once she catches the mouse tail... this is why I buy her dog toys because she tears up cat toys LOL! Only thing I could creatively add to this toy is either a remote to keep it playing while I'm away or a motion-activated sensor to keep her playing. As it is, it turns off after 7 minutes. What cat only plays for 7 minutes!?

With this cutter, slower works better and you're right, I set it down on top of the pill gently, let it rest, then apply pressure slowly. It's cutting more evenly, but not 100% yet, still, better than I could do with a box cutter.

She just took her pill and I even felt her swallow it. Minimal drooling. I'm hoping she gets the hang of this, she's very smart. "Hey, if I swallow it fast, she lets me out of the bathroom faster!" And now she has her toy to get back to.

 

[snickerdoodle]

Talked to the vet this evening, she recommended switching to Prozac. But said it is my decision. The amytrip doesn't seem to be working as well as she'd hope and she said we may never find something to completely resolve this. That's disappointing, but I also need some back up on this: I received my check from the insurance company and my first priority is to get Chickster a CBC and an x-ray of the back half of her - hips, bowels.. My friend tells me this is a waste of money but she's never had a CBC and I want to know what's going on with her bowels.

Friend knows I've been having money troubles and told me not to go crazy like I "did with Boo". Which was kind of hurtful. The price of all this will probably be about 200 dollars or so. What are your thoughts? I would figure a CBC and an X-ray would be a responsible thing for a pet owner to do once you had the money......

I'm doing it anyway, it is just really hurtful to hear those things. She has plenty of pets, too. So I really don't understand that. *sigh* Anyway, I am hoping the prozac helps a bit better...

 

[ldg]

It's always so disappointing when people we thought understood our love for our pets disappoint us. Just went through this with my mom, so I know how you feel.

Actually, we get a blood panel done every year on all our cats. And now that so many of them are technically seniors, we get the senior panel done (has extra tests for liver and kidney functions). It's a RESPONSIBLE thing to do, not a foolish one, and even if it's not something done every year, it's GREAT to have a baseline of the information for if she has health problems in the future.

And given the problems with her bowel movements - again - I think the X-ray and/or ultrasound (I don't know which is best diagnositic tool for the issues - the vet will) is again, a really good idea. You need to know what's going on down there to rule problems in or out!

As to the prozac... so many people have had so many problems with it, it's not a med I'd feel comfortable with. I'd discuss the pros and cons of prozac vs. phenobarbitol with your vet. And you may want to wait on any med changing until after you've had the blood work, X-rays, and the food switch done.

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Snickerdoodle

Talked to the vet this evening, she recommended switching to Prozac. But said it is my decision. The amytrip doesn't seem to be working as well as she'd hope and she said we may never find something to completely resolve this. That's disappointing, but I also need some back up on this: I received my check from the insurance company and my first priority is to get Chickster a CBC and an x-ray of the back half of her - hips, bowels.. My friend tells me this is a waste of money but she's never had a CBC and I want to know what's going on with her bowels.

Friend knows I've been having money troubles and told me not to go crazy like I "did with Boo". Which was kind of hurtful. The price of all this will probably be about 200 dollars or so. What are your thoughts? I would figure a CBC and an X-ray would be a responsible thing for a pet owner to do once you had the money......

I'm doing it anyway, it is just really hurtful to hear those things. She has plenty of pets, too. So I really don't understand that. *sigh* Anyway, I am hoping the prozac helps a bit better...

I think you mean a superchem, not a CBC. CBC only shows things like electrolytes and such. You want a full blood panel, right? with all organ function, kidneys, liver etc.

I'd do the full blood panel and the x rays. Ignore the friend.

I am against the use of prozac in cats except as a last resort. I can't tell you why, it's just a personal prejudice. I would go with phenobarbital instead, if this were me and mine. (Just my opinion, not trying to tell you what to do.

)

Prozac and amitriptyline are both antidepressants. Phenobarbital is an anticonvulsant, and is, from my own reading, the drug of choice, when drugs are needed, for FHS..

 

[ldg]

Originally Posted by otto

I think you mean a superchem, not a CBC. CBC only shows things like electrolytes and such. You want a full blood panel, right? with all organ function, kidneys, liver etc.

I'd do the full blood panel and the x rays. Ignore the friend.

I assumed you meant a blood panel but wrote CBC. You definitely want a full blood panel!

 

[snickerdoodle]

Yes, superchem is what I meant!! Not a CBC, sorry guys, thanks for correcting me

I will definitely talk to the vet about the pros and cons of Prozac to amytriptyline. I am just hesitant to use the Phenobarbital because of the liver issues after prolonged use. Not to say that the other meds can't have the same effects... I'm just at a loss now and trying to be extra super careful.


But i WILL talk to her and get that X-ray. Thanks guys.

 

[otto]

Yes, long term use of phenobarbital affects the liver, Tolly is living proof of that.

(he's 11 1/2 and has been on phenobarbital 8 1/2 years)

But you want to think about things like quality of life, too.

If phenobarbital turns out to be the one med that controls Chickter's fits, then, if it ends up shortening her life by a couple of years...well you have to go with the quality of life, right?

Again, I am not telling you what to do, only voicing my opinion.

I know you like and trust your vet, and if your vet feels that prozac is the next step, and you are comfortable with that, then I will still be here, supporting you and Chickster.

 

[snickerdoodle]

I thank you for that Otto, and I totally have been listening to your phenobarbitol recommendations. I am doing loads of research on it and this Friday and I will be talking to her in depth about it and I will hopefully be able to get a appt Friday as well so we can get all this done together. I'm hoping to bring in my other vet (Pierce, who helped Boo) just to have 2 minds on one case, if that doesn't offend the current vet, which I don't think it would.
I really do appreciate all your advice and help and I AM listening, I'm not throwing pheno out of the mix, it's still there.. just need more research and take it carefully. After Boo, I'm so afraid of screwing up that I want to scrutinize every possible option before I do it.. She's been calm all afternoon and evening, though. So we'll see. I'll update you guys again when I've got the results of the X-ray and Superchem

 

[luvmyparker]

I finally took the time to read this entire thread (whew!)

I too, have cat with apparent FHS symptoms, although, not as intense as Chickster's episodes. I have been delaying taking him to the vet since I simply have no money until after Christmas and because his symptoms are not escalating and he seems in overall good heath. I may have read too fast and missed it, unless you didn't ever actually say but what is Chickster doing exactly during her episodes aside from the growling at her rear?

I have recently switched to a grain-free diet and have noticed a decrease in Parker's episodes, although he still has them every other day or so. His biggest issue is over-grooming now. He hasn't lost that symptom. He licks himself constantly throughout the day, maybe even 3 times more than the other cats. The other day, I noticed thinning of his fur on the back of his legs from the incessant grooming. (With him having long hair, his back legs look kind of funny now, God love him).

Sorry for my rambling. What I am getting at is this; if you have better luck with any medication changes, could you possibly send me a PM or something and let me know how it works out? I'm sure you will be updating this thread on a regular basis as you have been but just in case I miss it over the following weeks with the holidays approaching.

Just know you aren't alone in having a cat with crazy episodes. Here is a video of one of his episodes prior to me changing his food. Often times his licking fits would be followed by tearing up and down the hall and thumping of his back leg on the floor. He was hissing at "nothing" for a few weeks but I haven't heard him do that since his new diet started kicking in.

Good luck with your little girl, I hope you have better luck.

 

[snickerdoodle]

Thank you for that video. Your cat does not seem to have bad episodes like mine. I will video tape Chicksters next one and get it on here so everyone can see exactly what is happening.

What she is doing, when the fit occurs is this: Her back begins rolling, though you may not see it because she goes under the kitchen table. She growls loudly, hisses, and it sounds like a cat fight without the other cat's noises. It's very loud and bothersome to anyone who hears it. She will try to catch the end of her tail in her mouth, spin in circles, run from her tail and bash into walls even sometimes. She will smack her tail in annoyance against the wood panels in the kitchen and make loud thumping noises like that. As long as she isn't in a confined space (Kitty tent, behind the sofa) she cannot get to her tail, thankfully, but I have seen her get the tip of her tail into her mouth once. She has not harmed herself yet but I have read horror stories of what happens if they do, and I am trying to keep it from happening.

The amytriptyline should have really cut down the episodes, but as it is, she is having a fit AFTER every medication (8AM) every day. This was happening with every 12 hours and every 24 hours. It really doesn't seem to make a difference. Apparently there are triggers that set her off. My coming home during the week in the mornings, the medication, there are so many variants that the vet and I are trying to work through.

Her appetite is going up again, she is eating more of the Nutro than she was of the Sensitive Systems (Purina One) and she pooped again last night. A bit more miralax today, as this last poop was nuggets, small, and on the firm side. Let me get ready to give her her meds and get the camera ready and we will see if I can catch her in the act.

I will certainly keep everyone updated on the medical test results and the further medications we try. Just for a quick review:

We're tried prednisone, liquid amytriptiline, and now on the pill form (10mg) 1/2 every 12-24 hours (I give every 24 hours) Possible next steps are Prozac or Phenobarbitol. Unless I can find a grain free food that she will eat as enthusiastically as the Nutro that seems to be a no go as of right now.

I am still curious to see the x-ray results, since she seems to be attacking her tail/butt area, that is is a bowel issue or a constipation issue causing her some sort of pain. WE will find out soon.

 

[otto]

WE will find out soon.

And we will be here watching and waiting. I love Chickster like my own, you know.

 

[snickerdoodle]

I know, and I am very thankful that someone cares about her as much as I do. Thank you.

Here is a short clip of this morning's fit which was less serious than usual. It is a link to Vimeo, let me know if it doesn't work..

 

[otto]

Even though it was short, I couldn't watch it without crying. I know how distressing this is to you. I know.

Tolly's episodes were very severe, with flank biting, floor biting, chasing an "invisible bug", head shaking and running around and around unable to stop.

Without the phenobarbital his episodes (which were diagnosed as idiopathic seizure disorder rather than FHS, but I don't know how much was known about FHS in those days) came every half hour to one hour, and lasted from 1-5 minutes. The only time he did not have them was when he was sleeping. It was terrifying. Horrifying.

So I know how hard this is on you.

Love and hugs and head bumps from me, Tolly Mazy Jennie and Queen Eva.