Best novelty protein suggestions and how to transition?

[Box of Rain]

tracy1213

Also, chicken--unfortunately--does tend to be one of the prime culprits when it comes to food allergies and intolerances. And I say unfortunately, as dark meat chicken is a good source of taurine, soft-edible bone (for those who raw feed), organs, and it is readily available and inexpensive.

To my mind it would be good to know if chicken (served alone) provoked these symptoms (or not).

I'm not sure if pork is a "novel protein" for your cat (or not), but--as many cats have not had pork--it is generally far easier (and cheaper) to source than rabbitt.

At some point you will need to consider how to supplement taurine (if feeding relatively low-taurine meats) and vitamins and other nutrients if not feeding organs, w/o adding in potentially problematic ingredients (such as egg yolks) into the equation. Others can be more helpful to you than I with regard to supplements.

Bill

 

[tracy1213]

A lot of veterinarians will suggest adding a little unseasoned white rice to the unseasoned boiled chicken, so not your fault . Every cat is different

Thank you for saying that!! I'm trying as hard as I can to do what's best for him and obviously I have a lot to learn!!

 

[tracy1213]

tracy1213

Also, chicken--unfortunately--does tend to be one of the prime culprits when it comes to food allergies and intolerances. And I say unfortunately, as dark meat chicken is a good source of taurine, soft-edible bone (for those who raw feed), organs, and it is readily available and inexpensive.

To my mind it would be good to know if chicken (served alone) provoked these symptoms (or not).

I'm not sure if pork is a "novel protein" for your cat (or not), but--as many cats have not had pork--it is generally far easier (and cheaper) to source than rabbitt.

At some point you will need to consider how to supplement taurine (if feeding relatively low-taurine meats) and vitamins and other nutrients if not feeding organs, w/o adding in potentially problematic ingredients (such as egg yolks) into the equation. Others can be more helpful to you than I with regard to supplements.

Bill

Thank you....yes I did want to rule out if chicken was the issue so will remove the rice and see if that makes a difference before I move on to the next thing!

 

[Box of Rain]

Thank you....yes I did want to rule out if chicken was the issue so will remove the rice and see if that makes a difference before I move on to the next thing!

I would tend to doubt that rice is the culprit. I'm not a fan of feeding grains to obligate carnivores, but to the best of my knowledge rice is not a common allergen (assuming there is an allergy issue).

Feeding less food (by mass) is easier on the GI system, so it is a general positive to made every calorie count, especially with a pet experiencing upset.

Bill

 

[tracy1213]

I would tend to doubt that rice is the culprit. I'm not a fan of feeding grains to obligate carnivores, but to the best of my knowledge rice is not a common allergen (assuming there is an allergy issue).

Feeding less food (by mass) is easier on the GI system, so it is a general positive to made every calorie count, especially with a pet experiencing upset.

Bill

Thank you. Yes at this point he's eating multiple very small meals to see what stays in and what doesn't. Thank you again for all your help!!

 

[tracy1213]

If he likes Rawz or Mouser, don't even get him started on I/D. I'm not a fan of its carb content. The reason I suggested it is because it is similar to boiled chicken and rice. Where it differs and where I start to waiver in my support of it is the inclusion of wheat gluten and one or two other starches to make the gravy. It's essentially chicken in gravy with rice and carrots. I'm not a fan of putting rice or carrots in cat food either. But Betty seems to love the stuff and I can't get her on anything else. In any case, she's stable on it and for a long time the vet wouldn't allow me to make changes. It took us forever to get her stable and then to and through her first dental. Now I'm allowed to make changes but I dare not to just yet. It's been a spendy ride and I'd just like a little breather here. Even if I/D is crazy expensive ($50/case for 24 small cans.) I basically suggested I/D as a sustainable chicken and rice diet since you can't feed him solely chicken and rice for very long. An alternative would be to skip the rice and use chicken liver (fresh or freeze-dried) and a vitamin powder completer like Alnutrin to make your own food. Though even if you go this route, I recommend keeping a canned food in his diet to weather out any supply or production issues, e.g. you ran out of an ingredient, you forgot to make a new batch on time, or he just doesn't like a certain batch (which happens sometimes.)

Thank you again for all of your help and advice!! I want to write more to each individual post since everyone has been so helpful but I gotta run around taking care of him and trying not to neglect the other 2 in the process!!

 

[lisahe]

I would tend to doubt that rice is the culprit. I'm not a fan of feeding grains to obligate carnivores, but to the best of my knowledge rice is not a common allergen (assuming there is an allergy issue).

Feeding less food (by mass) is easier on the GI system, so it is a general positive to made every calorie count, especially with a pet experiencing upset.

Bill

Thank you for mentioning this, Bill! We have a regurgitator so it's a great reminder about why it's so helpful to feed small meals (sometimes even in courses), particularly when the food is rich.

I agree that rice is definitely an unlikely culprit -- it's commonly included in exclusion diets for humans. That said, like you, I wouldn't want to feed it to a cat because it's empty carb calories.

 

[daftcat75]

I'm not crazy about feeding rice to obligate carnivores. But it is what Betty seems to like and it seems to be treating her well. I have tried to change her diet before and this is what she wants to eat.

I suggested Hills I/D because you can't continue on chicken and rice forever. At some point you will need to follow a recipe for proper supplementation or add in a vitamin premix completer. Hills I/D would allow you to continue your chicken and rice trial without worrying about jumping into the deep end of becoming your cat's food producer. And because I have run into supply, production, and demand issues being my last fussy cat's food producer, I do recommend keeping a canned backup in their rotation to weather these challenges and interruptions. It is also a hedge against any mistakes you might be making with homemade or raw.

So if I was going to construct a ladder of steps starting from where you are to maybe where you might want to go:

1. First step would be replacing chicken and rice with Hills I/D or rather, getting a few cans from your vet and slowly mixing the two to see if he likes the stuff and if it agrees with him. It's making an unbalanced diet balanced even if it's not the ideal food yet. He doesn't have to be on Hills I/D forever. But it might be the easiest transition from where he is now. I don't even want Betty on Hills I/D forever. I just don't want to pay for the extra vet visits if I get something wrong transitioning her from here to there, whatever there looks like, when here is finally working out just fine for her, and my wallet. I still need to pay off her dental, my dental, and taxes before I think about next steps with Betty. So she'll continue with I/D until I'm ready to try other foods with her again.
2. If you can get him to a clean recipe canned (don't fall for "limited ingredient diet" labels) like Rawz or Mouser, you can skip that first step altogether. But it may take time to figure out the food and flavor that he likes and works well with him. At least I/D is close to what he's already eating.
3. With a quality canned food to fall back on when supply, production, or demand is challenged, then I would explore homemade and raw. Because not every cat takes to homemade or raw. And it may take several recipes and iterations to figure out what he likes and what you can get on the regular. So if you don't want to dive in the deep end and risk leaving him without a food he likes or can eat or you can get, I recommend having your fallback in place first.

IBD doesn't always have a protein intolerance component to it. Betty coughs up hairballs. Never food. Her poops are perfect. But when she does cough up a hairball, it tears her up all day: several rounds usually ending in an ER visit with pink spits. So after arguing with the specialist about how she couldn't have IBD because it was never a reaction to her diet, her "hairballs" (that look a lot like IBD after thousands of dollars of imaging and biopsy) are controlled with steroids, and she's a happy stable kitty. We've tapered her steroids dose twice and may revisit her dose once more when my wallet is ready for mistakes. But, as I've told the specialist, she likes the I/D and there doesn't seem to be any chicken intolerance (or rice or gravy intolerances) and how would I know if one food was better for her than another if she doesn't seem to have a food reactive enteropathy? In other words, you may not need to give up on chicken just yet. But you are going to want to balance that diet sooner than later. I/D can be your bridge from here to a further there, whatever that looks like. That's if he even likes the stuff...

 

[Box of Rain]

Thank you for mentioning this, Bill! We have a regurgitator so it's a great reminder about why it's so helpful to feed small meals (sometimes even in courses), particularly when the food is rich.

I agree that rice is definitely an unlikely culprit -- it's commonly included in exclusion diets for humans. That said, like you, I wouldn't want to feed it to a cat because it's empty carb calories.

Earlier, after reading a post of yours about Raws cat food being "rich," I went to their website and looked at the canned options. I was very surprised to see how all over the map their products are with regard to the balance between protein and fat.

Since it is my understanding that a cat's typical diet when eating prey generally yields a diet that's around 55% of calories from protein and 45% from fat, that's what I'd hope to emulate. In that ballpark.

Many of their formulas have something like 10.5% protein and 6% fat.

Since fat has 2.25 times as many calories as protein, these formulas have roughly 56.25% of calories from fat and 43.75% of calories from protein. I'm not "fat phobic" when it comes to feeding carnivores (and far from it), but this balance seems high to me.

Then they have other formulas, such as the canned Chicken and Chicken liver, which only have 1.50% fat and 11% protein, which is yields 88% of calories from protein and 12% of calories from fat, which to me seems exceedingly low, which is even more worrisome for the needs of a healthy cat with no special issues.

Bill

 

[lisahe]

Earlier, after reading a post of yours about Raws cat food being "rich," I went to their website and looked at the canned options. I was very surprised to see how all over the map their products are with regard to the balance between protein and fat.

Since it is my understanding that a cat's typical diet when eating prey generally yields a diet that's around 55% of calories from protein and 45% from fat, that's what I'd hope to emulate. In that ballpark.

Many of their formulas have something like 10.5% protein and 6% fat.

Since fat has 2.25 times as many calories as protein, these formulas have roughly 56.25% of calories from fat and 43.75% of calories from protein. I'm not "fat phobic" when it comes to feeding carnivores (and far from it), but this balance seems high to me.

Then they have other formulas, such as the canned Chicken and Chicken liver, which only have 1.50% fat and 11% protein, which is yields 88% of calories from protein and 12% of calories from fat, which to me seems exceedingly low, which is even more worrisome for the needs of a healthy cat with no special issues.

Bill

What you mention about the high fat content of some Rawz foods gets at my biggest misgiving about them. That that does balance out to some extent for our purposes since other foods we feed are pretty low in fat. Commercial foods in general tend to be "all over the map" on this and all too many other counts!

 

[Box of Rain]

What you mention about the high fat content of some Rawz foods gets at my biggest misgiving about them. That that does balance out to some extent for our purposes since other foods we feed are pretty low in fat. Commercial foods in general tend to be "all over the map" on this and all too many other counts!

It is a reminder that even when foods are commercially produced that a pet owner's due diligence can't end. I think most people (reasonably) expect that formulas will fall in a near-optimal range, but that's not necessarily so.

For a cat with no special issues, I'd be even more concerned with a steady diet that only has 12% of calories from fat than one with 56.25% of calories from fat.

To say nothing commercial foods that have considerable calories from carbohydrates.

Speaking of feeding, my guys are ready.

Bill

 

[lisahe]

It is a reminder that even when foods are commercially produced that a pet owner's due diligence can't end. I think most people (reasonably) expect that formulas will fall in a near-optimal range, but that's not necessarily so.

For a cat with no special issues, I'd be even more concerned with a steady diet that only has 12% of calories from fat than one with 56.25% of calories from fat. To say nothing a commercial food that have considerable calories from carbohydrates.

Speaking of feeding, by guys are ready.

Bill

Yes, I check a lot of data before feeding something consistently! Carbs are the biggest concern and I watch phosphorus, too. And then there's the fat/protein question... that does seem to balance out. Perhaps the worst part of all this is that formulas change often so there's a lot of checking back.

Bon appétit to your cats!

 

[Box of Rain]

I'm not crazy about feeding rice to obligate carnivores. But it is what Betty seems to like and it seems to be treating her well. I have tried to change her diet before and this is what she wants to eat.

I suggested Hills I/D because you can't continue on chicken and rice forever. At some point you will need to follow a recipe for proper supplementation or add in a vitamin premix completer. Hills I/D would allow you to continue your chicken and rice trial without worrying about jumping into the deep end of becoming your cat's food producer. And because I have run into supply, production, and demand issues being my last fussy cat's food producer, I do recommend keeping a canned backup in their rotation to weather these challenges and interruptions. It is also a hedge against any mistakes you might be making with homemade or raw.

So if I was going to construct a ladder of steps starting from where you are to maybe where you might want to go:

1. First step would be replacing chicken and rice with Hills I/D or rather, getting a few cans from your vet and slowly mixing the two to see if he likes the stuff and if it agrees with him. It's making an unbalanced diet balanced even if it's not the ideal food yet. He doesn't have to be on Hills I/D forever. But it might be the easiest transition from where he is now. I don't even want Betty on Hills I/D forever. I just don't want to pay for the extra vet visits if I get something wrong transitioning her from here to there, whatever there looks like, when here is finally working out just fine for her, and my wallet. I still need to pay off her dental, my dental, and taxes before I think about next steps with Betty. So she'll continue with I/D until I'm ready to try other foods with her again.
2. If you can get him to a clean recipe canned (don't fall for "limited ingredient diet" labels) like Rawz or Mouser, you can skip that first step altogether. But it may take time to figure out the food and flavor that he likes and works well with him. At least I/D is close to what he's already eating.
3. With a quality canned food to fall back on when supply, production, or demand is challenged, then I would explore homemade and raw. Because not every cat takes to homemade or raw. And it may take several recipes and iterations to figure out what he likes and what you can get on the regular. So if you don't want to dive in the deep end and risk leaving him without a food he likes or can eat or you can get, I recommend having your fallback in place first.

IBD doesn't always have a protein intolerance component to it. Betty coughs up hairballs. Never food. Her poops are perfect. But when she does cough up a hairball, it tears her up all day: several rounds usually ending in an ER visit with pink spits. So after arguing with the specialist about how she couldn't have IBD because it was never a reaction to her diet, her "hairballs" (that look a lot like IBD after thousands of dollars of imaging and biopsy) are controlled with steroids, and she's a happy stable kitty. We've tapered her steroids dose twice and may revisit her dose once more when my wallet is ready for mistakes. But, as I've told the specialist, she likes the I/D and there doesn't seem to be any chicken intolerance (or rice or gravy intolerances) and how would I know if one food was better for her than another if she doesn't seem to have a food reactive enteropathy? In other words, you may not need to give up on chicken just yet. But you are going to want to balance that diet sooner than later. I/D can be your bridge from here to a further there, whatever that looks like. That's if he even likes the stuff...

My only concern is that how does one isolate the food(s) that may be causing issues w/o at least for a time becoming the cat's food producer?

It is very hard to isolate individual ingredients otherwise, as far as I see. How else could someone do that?

Being on prescription food isn't the end of the world, especially if there are no viable alternatives, but that wouldn't be my first choice if there were other options.

Are "clean recipe" canned foods tested to ensure they don't have the same issues as other commercial foods that very often contain proteins from species that are not listed on the food labels? This I don't know. Even so, I think my preference would be to prove a species "safe" using food from the human supply chain and then (were I inclined to feed canned) to look for a single source protein that matched.

It is a conundrum.

Bill

 

[Box of Rain]

Bon appétit to your cats!

One cat. And one dog.

I'm not sure which of the two it is more satisfying to feed. LOL

Both are very keen on their meals. Which makes me happy, as feeding friends and family is my "love language."

Bill

 

[daftcat75]

My only concern is that how does one isolate the food(s) that may be causing issues w/o at least for a time becoming the cat's food producer?

It is very hard to isolate individual ingredients otherwise, as far as I see. How else could someone do that?

Being on prescription food isn't the end of the world, especially if there are no viable alternatives, but that wouldn't be my first choice if there were other options.

Are "clean recipe" canned foods tested to ensure they don't have the same issues as other commercial foods that very often contain proteins from species that are not listed on the food labels? This I don't know. Even so, I think my preference would be to prove a species "safe" using food from the human supply chain and then (were I inclined to feed canned) to look for a single source protein that matched.

It is a conundrum.

Bill

It took me months and a few failed starts to find a recipe that Krista liked and treated her well. And since chicken and rice already seems promising, the other day’s incident not withstanding, I would try I/D as the bridge food since that’s basically what he’s already eating. Then build from there. But right now, chicken and rice isn’t sustainable and raw/homemade isn’t guaranteed to work or even be sustainable in the short term. Maybe raw is where he ends up. But I wouldn’t start there with no safety net below if it takes as long as it did with Krista to figure it out.

As an aside, I don’t place quite as much trust in meat for human consumption. Meat for human consumption goes through a lot of abuses—temperature, storage, grinders aren’t always cleaned and maintained like they should—with the intent that those abuses will be cooked away. I recommend frozen raw that comes from producers who intend for their meat to be eaten raw by pets. It’s going to be frozen after rendering and it won’t be subjected to a lot of the temperature and grinder abuses that meat for human consumption endures.

 

[Box of Rain]

It took me months and a few failed starts to find a recipe that Krista liked and treated her well. And since chicken and rice already seems promising, the other day’s incident not withstanding, I would try I/D as the bridge food since that’s basically what he’s already eating. Then build from there. But right now, chicken and rice isn’t sustainable and raw/homemade isn’t guaranteed to work or even be sustainable in the short term. Maybe raw is where he ends up. But I wouldn’t start there with no safety net below if it takes as long as it did with Krista to figure it out.

As an aside, I don’t place quite as much trust in meat for human consumption. Meat for human consumption goes through a lot of abuses—temperature, storage, grinders aren’t always cleaned and maintained like they should—with the intent that those abuses will be cooked away. I recommend frozen raw that comes from producers who intend for their meat to be eaten raw by pets. It’s going to be frozen after rendering and it won’t be subjected to a lot of the temperature and grinder abuses that meat for human consumption endures.

I assume--given the context--that when you wrote "rendering" in the final sentence, you meant to say "grinding."

I'm not personally keen on grinding pet food myself.

Not grinding food slow down the consumption and it helps give cats (and dogs) a good workout (especially when they consume raw edible bone) and I'm highly convinced it helps maintain good dental health. Not to mention other downsides of commercial (or home) grinds.

Dark meat chicken is pretty easy to balance out as a short term with either soft edible (raw) chicken bones in the correct proportions or with something like ground eggshell for calcium. Dark meat chicken is fairly taurine rich, and chicken liver can provide other vitamins.

Other proteins can be harder if chicken proved to be a culprit.

On some level, folks with such issues will need to mindfully experiment to see see what feeding regiment seem to work and which seem to create problems.

There are various means to that end. I'd want to isolate the variables as much as possible. To me that seems easier by taking control of food production. But that also plays to my strengths and isn't necessarily what works for everyone. No judgements on that front.

Bill

 

[daftcat75]

I assume--given the context--that when you wrote "rendering" in the final sentence, you meant to say "grinding."

I'm not personally keen on grinding pet food myself.

Not grinding food slow down the consumption and it helps give cats (and dogs) a good workout (especially when they consume raw edible bone) and I'm highly convinced it helps maintain good dental health. Not to mention other downsides of commercial (or home) grinds.

Dark meat chicken is pretty easy to balance out as a short term with either soft edible (raw) chicken bones in the correct proportions or with something like ground eggshell for calcium. Dark meat chicken is fairly taurine rich, and chicken liver can provide other vitamins.

Other proteins can be harder if chicken proved to be a culprit.

On some level, folks with such issues will need to mindfully experiment to see see what feeding regiment seem to work and which seem to create problems.

There are various means to that end. I'd want to isolate the variables as much as possible. To me that seems easier by taking control of food production. But that also plays to my strengths and isn't necessarily what works for everyone. No judgements on that front.

Bill

Rendering or butchering.Whatever the term that means turning an animal into a chub or tub of meat.

You make raw sound a lot easier than it is. PMR is great if you have a cat that will eat it all. But often IBD cats have become picky from their illness. Krista loved Rad Cat. But it took forever to find cuts of turkey meat she would eat. Then it took a considerable amount of time finding the right vitamin mix for her because she couldn’t have any of the commercial powders which all leaned on egg or chicken ingredients. She had a confirmed chicken intolerance. Fortunately she enjoyed Rawz. So that was the backbone of her diet while we kept working at the raw. Many IBD cats can’t have bone. Either there’s an intersectionality with age-related dental diseases or the bone content is too constipating for motility challenged IBD cats.

While raw can be a nutritious and supportive diet for many cats, it might not be the best for all cats. And it certainly isn’t an easy entry for many cats.

 

[Box of Rain]

Rendering or butchering.Whatever the term that means turning an animal into a chub or tub of meat.

You make raw sound a lot easier than it is. PMR is great if you have a cat that will eat it all. But often IBD cats have become picky from their illness. Krista loved Rad Cat. But it took forever to find cuts of turkey meat she would eat. Then it took a considerable amount of time finding the right vitamin mix for her because she couldn’t have any of the commercial powders which all leaned on egg or chicken ingredients. She had a confirmed chicken intolerance. Fortunately she enjoyed Rawz. So that was the backbone of her diet while we kept working at the raw. Many IBD cats can’t have bone. Either there’s an intersectionality with age-related dental diseases or the bone content is too constipating for motility challenged IBD cats.

While raw can be a nutritious and supportive diet for many cats, it might not be the best for all cats. And it certainly isn’t an easy entry for many cats.

I don't want to get in a debate. One of the main reasons I feed PMR (non-ground and including appropriate bone) is to head off what may (or may not be) "age-related" dental diseases as I'm convinced that that's the best way to preserve good dental health. It is one of those "use it or lose it" situations in my estimation.

Obviously one needs to adapt to a cat's individual circumstances, including those of cats who already have developed dental illness (which is commonplace).

Pre-ground commercial raw formulas seem to include levels of bone that are appropriate for dogs, but too high for felines. Another reason to take charge with a cat who is suffering, as too much bone content can increase GI distress and constipation.

Feeding organs provides important vitamins and other nutrients, and one can cross check the recommendations of the National Research Council against the USDA Food Central Database to compare the recommended nutrients against what one serves to see if feeding vitamin supplements is even necessary .

I mentioned earlier that many supplements do include potentially problematic elements like egg yolks, which undermines their usage with cats who are intolerant of chicken. Makes it much harder when chicken is the culprit, which, unfortunately, is often the case.

Dark meat chicken is a good source of taurine, and dark meat turkey is outstanding, assuming either can be tolerated.

It still makes sense to me to try as best as one is able to try to isolate which foods may be at the root of the problem, and to see if their are proteins that are "safe" in order to help one devise a long term solution that works for both the cat and the caregiver. That seems harder to me when one mixes more than one species and/or relies on commercial foods that may not accurately reflect what's actually in the package.

Not every situation is the same, and I fully recognise that truth.

Bill

 

[daftcat75]

I don't want to get in a debate. One of the main reasons I feed PMR (non-ground and including appropriate bone) is to head off what may (or may not be) "age-related" dental diseases as I'm convinced that that's the best way to preserve good dental health. It is one of those "use it or lose it" situations in my estimation.

Obviously one needs to adapt to a cat's individual circumstances, including those of cats who already have developed dental illness (which is commonplace).

Pre-ground commercial raw formulas seem to include levels of bone that are appropriate for dogs, but too high for felines. Another reason to take charge with a cat who is suffering, as too much bone content can increase GI distress and constipation.

Feeding organs provides important vitamins and other nutrients, and one can cross check the recommendations of the National Research Council against the USDA Food Central Database to compare the recommended nutrients against what one serves to see if feeding vitamin supplements is even necessary .

I mentioned earlier that many supplements do include potentially problematic elements like egg yolks, which undermines their usage with cats who are intolerant of chicken. Makes it much harder when chicken is the culprit, which, unfortunately, is often the case.

Dark meat chicken is a good source of taurine, and dark meat turkey is outstanding, assuming either can be tolerated.

It still makes sense to me to try as best as one is able to try to isolate which foods may be at the root of the problem, and to see if their are proteins that are "safe" in order to help one devise a long term solution that works for both the cat and the caregiver. That seems harder to me when one mixes more than one species and/or relies on commercial foods that may not accurately reflect what's actually in the package.

Not every situation is the same, and I fully recognise that truth.

Bill

We’re in what an ex-gf would call “violent agreement.” We’re really not that far off ideologically. I simply recognize the usefulness and often necessity of intermediate steps. It’s overwhelming and often confusing and conflicting to learn IBD. It’s overwhelming and often confusing and conflicting to learn raw feeding. It is more than additive to try to learn them together. Especially when caring for an IBD cat is draining all one’s money, energy, worry, and often sleep. Not much left over to think about organ meats, taurine levels, and food databases. I’m simply trying to lay out some steps between here and there, and reassure that it’s okay if you can’t go all the way. And it doesn’t all have to happen tomorrow. Or yesterday.

 

[Box of Rain]

We’re in what an ex-gf would call “violent agreement.” We’re really not that far off ideologically. I simply recognize the usefulness and often necessity of intermediate steps. It’s overwhelming and often confusing and conflicting to learn IBD. It’s overwhelming and often confusing and conflicting to learn raw feeding. It is more than additive to try to learn them together. Especially when caring for an IBD cat is draining all one’s money, energy, worry, and often sleep. Not much left over to think about organ meats, taurine levels, and food databases. I’m simply trying to lay out some steps between here and there, and reassure that it’s okay if you can’t go all the way. And it doesn’t all have to happen tomorrow. Or yesterday.

The only departure I'm seeing really, is in how difficult we perceive it to be to provide adequate (if not absolutely perfectly balanced) nutritional support to a cat in the short term as one sorts which protein sources work, and which don't.

My sense of what's easy may be skewed by my own experiences--and I will fully admit that I spent inordinate amounts of time cross checking sample recipes against the NRC recommendations for canine nutrition when I began feeding my new puppy PMR nearly a decade ago to confirm that the "prey model" of feeding actually delivers the nutrients that the experts claim is optimal. That amount of "due diligence" is time consuming, especially for one under stress.

But that exercise also gave me confidence that feeding dogs and cats food that closely approximates what they'd eat if they were consuming prey, works quite well to provide a baseline of nutrition (with the need to feed adequate levels of taurine being an additional consideration in cats).

So if a person fed PRM ratios, or substituted another calcium source for bone (if necessary) and was mindful of taurine needs (supplementing if necessary) I don't see this as particularly difficult, especially as a short term trial. But that may be skewed as I'm someone who finds food prep easy and something I enjoy.

Trying to determine if there are foods that my cat does and does not tolerate would be pretty vital concerns to me and worth doing some food elimination/isolation experiments were we in that situation.

And to those in that situation, I'd suggest trusting PMR ratios: 84% "meat," 6% bone (or replacement) and 10% organs (half being liver) is fully adequate to get one though food trials w/o causing nutritional imbalances. Taurine being a special case if one is not serving dark meat poultry.

Bill