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Best novelty protein suggestions and how to transition?
- Thread starter tracy1213
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Hi and thank you for asking!!! Well he's been eating chicken baby food and turkey baby food all day yesterday (with some high calorie vitamin gel in between) He has had 2 perfectly tiny firm bowel movements with almost no smell which would be the first time in over 3 weeks. Only problem is he's out of control starving and I'm trying to just give him very small meals literally every hour it seems. I've never seen his appetite like this so obviously it's very concerning because he's not satisfied even though the baby food alone is providing him with more calories than he ever consumed. If we go back a month or two ago he had very little appetite and just picked on his meals all throughout the day.To get back to the OP and Meeko...
tracy1213 , how is Meeko doing? I hope he's improving and able to keep some food down!
He has 1300.00 worth of testing this Monday. An ultrasound and I'm going to make sure they test his thyroid again though it was fairly normal 2 months ago. Not sure what other testing I should ask for as I can barely afford the cost of the ultrasound alone but if it helps me to figure out what's going on I'll deal with some debt!!
This is great to hear,Hi and thank you for asking!!! Well he's been eating chicken baby food and turkey baby food all day yesterday (with some high calorie vitamin gel in between) He has had 2 perfectly tiny firm bowel movements with almost no smell which would be the first time in over 3 weeks. Only problem is he's out of control starving and I'm trying to just give him very small meals literally every hour it seems. I've never seen his appetite like this so obviously it's very concerning because he's not satisfied even though the baby food alone is providing him with more calories than he ever consumed. If we go back a month or two ago he had very little appetite and just picked on his meals all throughout the day.
He has 1300.00 worth of testing this Monday. An ultrasound and I'm going to make sure they test his thyroid again though it was fairly normal 2 months ago. Not sure what other testing I should ask for as I can barely afford the cost of the ultrasound alone but if it helps me to figure out what's going on I'll deal with some debt!!
tracy1213
, I'm glad he's not only eating and keeping the food down but also hungry! The "no smell" to the bowel movements is a good sign, too. I wonder if he's now so hungry because he's finally enjoying his food again after something in his food had been bothering him. (We see this with our cat who gets a little constipated sometimes... she'll eat lightly for a day or two but then get absolutely ravenous for another day or two but then start eating normally again.)
Anyway! I don't remember/know what you'd been feeding him but do recall that you'd been concerned about gums and thickeners. It's wholly possible that one of those additives might have been the problem.
I'm glad to hear the baby food helped. It can be a great option in situations like Meeko's. Fingers crossed that he'll keep eating well!
What wonderfully positive signs. Getting an appetite back and passing well-formed low-odor stools is huge.
Yea!
Bill
Yea!
Bill
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I can't thank you enough for all your help and kind words!!This is great to hear,
I wonder if he's now so hungry because he's finally enjoying his food again after something in his food had been bothering him. (We see this with our cat who gets a little constipated sometimes... she'll eat lightly for a day or two but then get absolutely ravenous for another day or two but then start eating normally again.)
Anyway! I don't remember/know what you'd been feeding him but do recall that you'd been concerned about gums and thickeners. It's wholly possible that one of those additives might have been the problem.
I'm glad to hear the baby food helped. It can be a great option in situations like Meeko's. Fingers crossed that he'll keep eating well!
He's definitely acting beyond starving but I'm getting some more solid food in him now to see how that goes. Just boiled chicken and a tiny bit of rice all blended up and mixed with the baby food. This seems to be making him feel a little fuller.
I'm totally overwhelmed looking at all the wet food I have here as almost all of it has guar gum but a few have all 3 of the gums. So I'm curious as to how I'm gonna figure this out. I have 2 other cats too and I want to change things around just incase they develop this same issue down the road!!
Thank you again for thinking of us!!
tracy1213
Excellent news! We definitely noticed that when we stopped giving Magnus his allergies he finally got an appetite. For awhile we couldn't satisfy it. You may want to look in to freeze dried food. You add water to rehydrate it. It's a great option for gum free foods and can be somewhat cost effective. Lily liked Stella and Chewys.
I prefer not to feed Cal beef or cheese as well in case Magnus tests it out and gets a reaction.
Some foods I know without gums are:
- Pure Bites pates (you may need to give a vitamin supplement from the vet)
- Orijen pates
- has agar-agar instead but Dr. elsey's (a cat who reacts to gum may or may not react to agar-agar)
Here's some other threads with some other ideas: Wet food with no gums besides Tiki Cat or Whole Hearted?
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Guar gum seems to be the most benign of the gums despite its unappealing and foreboding name. I'm not saying it will never cause problems and that there aren't cats sensitive to it. But if I have to get a food with a gum in it, all other things being equal, I'll pick the one with guar gum every time.
Carrageenan and agar agar, I put these in the same category, and will avoid these. All other things being equal, one of those would cause me to put a food back on the shelf every time. Food scientists may make a distinction between carageenan and agar agar, but they both doubled over Krista in pain every time. It was very sad to watch until I figured it out, and part of the reason why there is a wifi camera under the bookcase.
Xanthan gum makes smooth foods smooth. It's used a lot in those tube treats or the mousse foods. And to those who are sensitive to it, it can make their poops smooth too. I tried Tiki Cat's Velvet Mousse with Krista and it was mousse in, mousse out. I called it The Moussening. It was as awful as it sounds. I believe I tried one other food with xanthan gum with her and got the same result. I connected the two by the gum and have never fed it to Krista or Betty since. I don't even buy the stuff myself. If I pick the wrong cream cheese, I'll learn that lesson over again.
I don't have enough experience or anecdotal data to recommend or condemn the other gums.
Carrageenan and agar agar, I put these in the same category, and will avoid these. All other things being equal, one of those would cause me to put a food back on the shelf every time. Food scientists may make a distinction between carageenan and agar agar, but they both doubled over Krista in pain every time. It was very sad to watch until I figured it out, and part of the reason why there is a wifi camera under the bookcase.
Xanthan gum makes smooth foods smooth. It's used a lot in those tube treats or the mousse foods. And to those who are sensitive to it, it can make their poops smooth too. I tried Tiki Cat's Velvet Mousse with Krista and it was mousse in, mousse out. I called it The Moussening. It was as awful as it sounds. I believe I tried one other food with xanthan gum with her and got the same result. I connected the two by the gum and have never fed it to Krista or Betty since. I don't even buy the stuff myself. If I pick the wrong cream cheese, I'll learn that lesson over again.
I don't have enough experience or anecdotal data to recommend or condemn the other gums.
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Rawz and Mouser use gum alternatives--fenugreek seeds in Rawz and tomato paste in Mouser. I haven't heard of any cats reacting poorly to either of these. I think the biggest criticisms with them are cost, availability, and whether the cat likes it. But the recipes are fantastic. As good as you're going to get without going homemade.
Oh!
tracy1213
One thing I wish we knew really quick, is that once you start to add things back in, do just a little at a time. I'll do a little dollop of a new food on the side of Magnus's regular food.
He can test it out that way and see how it makes him feel. Also less is less of a reaction if/when it happens.
I think also ApplePaws has some good choices, but someone might have to let me know if that's Canadian or not.
As for tests, I know that if the IBD is calmed down they may not find it. IBD is really just the diagnosis of "we ruled out other digestive issues but the being is still experiencing an immune system reaction to something".
tracy1213
One thing I wish we knew really quick, is that once you start to add things back in, do just a little at a time. I'll do a little dollop of a new food on the side of Magnus's regular food. He can test it out that way and see how it makes him feel. Also less is less of a reaction if/when it happens.
I think also ApplePaws has some good choices, but someone might have to let me know if that's Canadian or not.
As for tests, I know that if the IBD is calmed down they may not find it. IBD is really just the diagnosis of "we ruled out other digestive issues but the being is still experiencing an immune system reaction to something".
I hope the blend of food is still working well. I think you're doing the right thing to keep it very simple.I can't thank you enough for all your help and kind words!!
He's definitely acting beyond starving but I'm getting some more solid food in him now to see how that goes. Just boiled chicken and a tiny bit of rice all blended up and mixed with the baby food. This seems to be making him feel a little fuller.
I'm totally overwhelmed looking at all the wet food I have here as almost all of it has guar gum but a few have all 3 of the gums. So I'm curious as to how I'm gonna figure this out. I have 2 other cats too and I want to change things around just incase they develop this same issue down the road!!
Thank you again for thinking of us!!
Yes, it can be very overwhelming to read all the ingredients and try to figure out what's (maybe!) causing a problem.
FWIW, a few thoughts on ingredients and figuring out what to feed Meeko:
-I agree with
daftcat75
that guar gum is likely "the most benign" of the gums. I will feed guar but won't feed the others to our cat with digestive issues. (The other cat likes a few foods with xanthan but those are just occasional treats.) In terms of practical steps: You could try banning foods with gums other than guar.-Agar-agar is the worst one for us: it causes problems for both our cats, which is highly unusual. Totally banned! Carrageenan's banned, too.
-We all do this differently but I'd probably start additions with the very simplest foods possible. I mentioned shreds before: if Meeko likes shredded chicken foods, something like Tiki Cat shreds would be perfect since there aren't any gums, starches, fillers, or other thickeners. (I like to prefer the maximalist approach of cutting out all suspect ingredients at once and then adding something -- like guar gum -- back in later if need be.)
-When Edwina was sick last year, I took all gums out of her diet. After her surgery, I decided to try her on just guar gum... and she's been fine with that.
-@Alldara mentioned trying freeze-dried raw food... we used to feed a lot of that, too. Freeze-dried raw meals worked very well for Edwina but not for Ireland, who has a tendency to get constipated. Some raw foods contain a lot of bone, which can cause constipation. Unfortunately, some (even many?) companies won't disclose the percentage of bone in their foods. Primal pork was one of the few that worked well for Ireland.
-All these undesirable ingredients in commercial foods are what drove me to start making homemade cooked food five to ten years ago.
That's more than enough out of me! I hope Meeko continues to make progress!
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Thank you so much for all the suggestions!!! I did try the stella and chewy with him awhile ago. He liked it dry and hated it wet but maybe now that he's extra hungry I could try it again. I'm so nervous to take him off bland food and start adding in things now because it's been so wonderful not to have to clean him and the entire house after he runs through it covered in diarrhea!!
You may want to look in to freeze dried food. You add water to rehydrate it. It's a great option for gum free foods and can be somewhat cost effective. Lily liked Stella and Chewys.
I prefer not to feed Cal beef or cheese as well in case Magnus tests it out and gets a reaction.
Some foods I know without gums are:
- Pure Bites pates (you may need to give a vitamin supplement from the vet)
- Orijen pates
- has agar-agar instead but Dr. elsey's (a cat who reacts to gum may or may not react to agar-agar)
Here's some other threads with some other ideas: Wet food with no gums besides Tiki Cat or Whole Hearted?
I will check out all the food labels going forward and start writing things down as I go!!
Yes, it's totally nerve-wracking to take them off bland food! I went through this after Edwina's surgery, too. (That was when guar gum came back, for Sheba pates... They were perfect and she still eats them, though I don't like the tapioca...)Thank you so much for all the suggestions!!! I did try the stella and chewy with him awhile ago. He liked it dry and hated it wet but maybe now that he's extra hungry I could try it again. I'm so nervous to take him off bland food and start adding in things now because it's been so wonderful not to have to clean him and the entire house after he runs through it covered in diarrhea!!
I will check out all the food labels going forward and start writing things down as I go!!
Just take it slowly and feed small amounts. Fingers crossed!
Again, I claim no expertise and certainly have zero experience with a cat who has had food intolerances, allergies, or IBD-like issues, but from what I've read of the experiences of people who claim to have reversed such problems over the long term, a common theme I've seen has been to stop the (formerly) ongoing assaults on the GI tract by finding a safe diet and sticking with it long enough to give the immune response a chance to settle down and for "healing" of the gut to take place.
So I--as person who ordinarily like the idea of feeding a diverse array of proteins--would go very slowly in moving away from feeding what seems to be safe, and avoid trying to add additional (and potentially problematic) ingredients, especially items that may have been in previous formulas) until I felt like things were very stable. And even then, I'd be careful.
Obviously, in the relatively near term one would need to look at what nutritional imbalances a "bland diet" might have and work on addressing those without upsetting the progress. But this looks like it could be a case that can be turned around. I would go very slowly in this situation.
If chicken is proving to be well-tolerated, I'd try to make it dark meat chicken (which is a decent source of taurine). Better yet would be dark meat turkey, which is an excellent taurine source.
When there is continued stability, adding small bits of chicken liver and working up slowly (if well tolerated) would add nutritional support w/o changing the species of a protein that is hopefully safe. And a safe source of calcium. That sort of thing.
The progress is encouraging. Wishing you all the best.
Bill
So I--as person who ordinarily like the idea of feeding a diverse array of proteins--would go very slowly in moving away from feeding what seems to be safe, and avoid trying to add additional (and potentially problematic) ingredients, especially items that may have been in previous formulas) until I felt like things were very stable. And even then, I'd be careful.
Obviously, in the relatively near term one would need to look at what nutritional imbalances a "bland diet" might have and work on addressing those without upsetting the progress. But this looks like it could be a case that can be turned around. I would go very slowly in this situation.
If chicken is proving to be well-tolerated, I'd try to make it dark meat chicken (which is a decent source of taurine). Better yet would be dark meat turkey, which is an excellent taurine source.
When there is continued stability, adding small bits of chicken liver and working up slowly (if well tolerated) would add nutritional support w/o changing the species of a protein that is hopefully safe. And a safe source of calcium. That sort of thing.
The progress is encouraging. Wishing you all the best.
Bill
That's all you can do really!Thank you so much for all the suggestions!!! I did try the stella and chewy with him awhile ago. He liked it dry and hated it wet but maybe now that he's extra hungry I could try it again. I'm so nervous to take him off bland food and start adding in things now because it's been so wonderful not to have to clean him and the entire house after he runs through it covered in diarrhea!!
I will check out all the food labels going forward and start writing things down as I go!!
I hope it goes well. Don't really fuss over who thinks what or anything like that. As you can see different things worked for each home.
Keep giving yourself a few days break from other things and then just pick something with really plain ingredients and give it a small try.
I did a single can of the Purina EN from the vet first and a single can of the Royal Canin one. Purina went well, Royal Canin didn't.
Then i got a case and he ate Purina EN for a few months. We added in some Wureva chicken and pumpkin, Iams perfect portions and Applepaws over time. Just whatever had similar ingredients to the EN diet.
You know chicken works and you know rice works. There's many plainish formulas around that, so that's the good news.
Unfortunately, you won't know what else works or doesn't until you try it. But I'd stick with the first food that goes well for at least a month if you can. Don't rotate through too much or you'll be back here again
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Yeah I'm totally not ready to do it yet!Yes, it's totally nerve-wracking to take them off bland food! I went through this after Edwina's surgery, too. (That was when guar gum came back, for Sheba pates... They were perfect and she still eats them, though I don't like the tapioca...)
Just take it slowly and feed small amounts. Fingers crossed!
He's got a bunch of tests and bloodwork Monday so I'm going to wait until after that to start messing with him!! Thank you again!!
You're so welcome! It's hard when cats aren't feeling right.Yeah I'm totally not ready to do it yet!
Thank you again!!
I hope the tests and bloodwork go well on Monday -- I'm very curious to hear what you find out if you post about the results.
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I'm not sure if I'll get all the results Monday as he needs to do a more sensitive thyroid test which he needs to send out to a different lab. As long as I don't get horrible news and I'm emotionally functioning I will try and remember to update you!!
