Bear is at the vet. He's very sick, liver looks horrible.

[techiegirl]

Originally Posted by otto

I agree with Denali. I wouldn't be giving my cat anything a vet prescribed who had never even head of denosyl!

Ditto that!!!

Also, if you are going to give Denamarin or Denosyl, it should be given on an empty stomach and at least 60 minutes prior to him eating anything for increased absorption. It won't do any harm but it will not work as food will decrease the absorption of S-Adenosylmethionine. We have usually given it first thing in the morning and don't leave out food the previous night. Thought I would mention that since if your vet doesn't know what it is, I doubt they would know how to give it (kinda scary!).

He sure is beautiful.. err handsome!

Glad he is doing better!

 

[carolina]

Yey Bear!!!

Did you get to talk to the vet today? Let us know how it went!

 

[lilyluvscats]

Bear is so cute. I hope he continues to improve.

 

[laureen227]

his ears may still be yellowish, but his tummy is much less so! he also looks so much more alert - very indicative, imo. your reports sound like he's turned the corner, & is definitely improving!

 

[xocats]

Keep improving sweet Bear.

 

[snickerdoodle]

Yay Bear!

 

[katkisses]

He is less pukey (none in a couple days!), and ate about 1/2 cup of dry food today. He even showed interest in the other cats wet food, but he would not eat it.

I don't remember if I posted this (longggg thread lol), but I gave up trying to seperate him. I doubt it's fip, I just hope it's nothing else contagious. I let him stay out almost all day, but I do put him in the crate with food several times a day, and I put him in it at night so he has access to food all night. I tried putting him in a room to his self.... he cried, he is content in the crate because he can see me and the other kitties.

I do not free feed my other cats, they would be morbidly obese if I did, lol.

I am still assist feeing, but I slowly weaned him off of the night feedings. It seems to help his appetite a little. I still assist feed every 4-5hrs during the day. I will space those out more when his appetite gets better.

Originally Posted by Rosiemac

Awwwww bless his little heart. Bear, you look so handsome muffin man!!!

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Denali

Wooohooo! His bilirubin is coming down! That means something is working - yay!

Was the vet concerned about the two higher numbers? We will wait to hear from you about his blood values later today. This is quite important to know - especially if it is his ALT #

I wouldn't give the Lipo-Form to Bear. I looked it up and it has a bunch of ingredients in it that Bear does not need. Can you ask your regular vet to get some of the Denosyl in for you? The Denosyl or Denmarin is pretty standard practice for Liver problems. It's wierd that the vet doesn't know what this is.

I am also glad to hear that Bear is keeping his weight on. That is a great sign

Way to go Bear!!!!

This was not our regular vet. The office has 4 vets, Bear's vet was not there for some reason. He seemed puzzled that the bilirubin was lower, but 2 levels went up. He didn't say he was confused by it, but certainly looked that way when he looked at the blood work. I am calling Monday (I hope they are open, memorial day) to talk with MY vet, and ask about Denosyl and ask them to send me the blood work. I am pretty sure that the 2 levels were ALT and AMY, the other levels have been ok-ish. I will make sure we don't get that vet again...

What do you mean by "ingredients that Bear does not need?" Just extra ingredients....or bad ones? I will stop giving it to him until I can talk with our regular vet. Thanks again

Originally Posted by otto

Thanks for the update and pictures of our beautiful Bear!

I agree with Denali. I wouldn't be giving my cat anything a vet prescribed who had never even head of denosyl!

I'm a little mixed up though. I thought Bear was on Denamarin (denosyl and marin) . Isn't the sylibin (milk thistle, the "marin" part of the denamarin) what is needed when the bilirubin numbers are high? I don't know, that's why I am asking.

Tolly may need to be switched to from Denosyl to Denamarin some day and I still haven't been able to get my brain around what the difference in need is.

So glad the jaundice is fading, and his bilirubin has been cut in half. It must give you some comfort to know how accurately you are judging Bear's condition!

Bear is not on either one, he is taking Milk Thistle though... I am going to talk to my vet about them though. I try to only look at his color every 2-3 days because when I look every day, I can not see any difference because it is going away verrry slowly. Thanks again, you are awesome!

Originally Posted by mrsgreenjeens

Woo hoo for the great Bilirubin number!!

And I love, love, love the new pictures. He looks like the sweetest kitty. He actually looks just like my Darko, only half the size.

Thanks! He is very sweet.

If he were an only cat, it would be like not having a cat. He is no problem at all.

 

[otto]

The marin part of Denamarin is milk thistle. More specifically the sylibin of the milk thistle. A plain Marin (milk thistle) is also made by the same company (Nutramax) The only difference between Nutramax marin and milk thistle from a health food store is this product is made specifically for animals.

So Bear is getting what he needs.

 

[denali]

Originally Posted by otto

The marin part of Denamarin is milk thistle. More specifically the sylibin of the milk thistle. A plain Marin (milk thistle) is also made by the same company (Nutramax) The only difference between Nutramax marin and milk thistle from a health food store is this product is made specifically for animals.

So Bear is getting what he needs.

The main part of both Denosyl and Denamarin is the SAMe. Sylibin (Milk thistle) is an extra in the Denamarin. There is only 9g of the Sylibin as opposed to 90g of the SAMe. Here is a link to read on Denamarin
http://www.drugs.com/vet/denamarin.html
Here is a link for Denosyl
http://www.drugs.com/vet/denosyl.html

Otto, Not sure if you meant that Bear is getting what he needs with just the Milk Thistle but without the SAMe he really is not getting what he needs alone. SAMe is a very important part in repairing the liver. As is Milk Thistle. Once we got my cats liver values under control we stopped the Denosyl. It has been a couple of months now and we still are giving him the Milk Thistle as it is a very good supplement for the liver.

Bear's ALT# (liver value) is going up instead of down. The Denosyl/Denamarin could help this #. But the increase in ALT # could also be due to inflammation. Which the steroids would need to be increased.

 

[farleyv]

So glad to hear how Bear is turning the corner. What a journey. Continued prayers and vibes for both of you!!

 

[otto]

Originally Posted by Denali

The main part of both Denosyl and Denamarin is the SAMe. Sylibin (Milk thistle) is an extra in the Denamarin. There is only 9g of the Sylibin as opposed to 90g of the SAMe. Here is a link to read on Denamarin
http://www.drugs.com/vet/denamarin.html
Here is a link for Denosyl
http://www.drugs.com/vet/denosyl.html

Otto, Not sure if you meant that Bear is getting what he needs with just the Milk Thistle but without the SAMe he really is not getting what he needs alone. SAMe is a very important part in repairing the liver. As is Milk Thistle. Once we got my cats liver values under control we stopped the Denosyl. It has been a couple of months now and we still are giving him the Milk Thistle as it is a very good supplement for the liver.

Bear's ALT# (liver value) is going up instead of down. The Denosyl/Denamarin could help this #. But the increase in ALT # could also be due to inflammation. Which the steroids would need to be increased.

My post doesn't say the "main" part of Denamarin, it says the "marin" part of denamarin. I know about Denosyl(sam-e), that is what Tolly takes. He doesn't need the marin (the sylibin of the milk thistle)

my comment was simply stating that milk thistle is the same thing as the marin in Denamarin.

 

[denali]

Originally Posted by otto

My post doesn't say the "main" part of Denamarin, it says the "marin" part of denamarin. I know about Denosyl(sam-e), that is what Tolly takes. He doesn't need the marin (the sylibin of the milk thistle)

my comment was simply stating that milk thistle is the same thing as the marin in Denamarin.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

So....we need an update on OUR Bear!!

 

[mews2much]

Here is a update from Tues.
Bear has been about the same. He no worse, but no better either. He still acts fine.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Where is she updating? No matter, I'm glad he's no worse, but surprised to hear he's no better. I guess it just takes a longer time to recover than I thought. He's out of the woods, though, right???

That little bear is so cute. He so reminds me of my Darko.

 

[katkisses]

Sorry it took me so long to update everyone, I don’t have internet right now. Bear is still hanging on, he is about the same still. Same meds, he still gets fluids every day. We are trying the Denosyl meds too.

\tI had my vet to fax over Bears records to North Carolina State College Veterinary Hospital, to see if they could help in any way. I don’t have enough money to go there, so this was the next best thing. They were surprised that Bear is still alive, they think he has the deadly and contagious FIP virus. My vet said that he told them that it was the great care that Bear is receiving from me. (Aw) Both NC State and my vet said that Bear needs a liver biopsy, BUT it is questionable if he can make it through the surgery. It costs between $300-500 total (surgery, bloodwork, meds). The reason that it has to be a surgical biopsy instead of a needle biopsy (wouldn’t have to sedate) is because with a surgical biopsy the vet can see the condition of the liver and get biopsies of the parts that are the most affected.

\tIt took me several days to decide what to do, this is a very hard and personal choice. My cat ACTS fine, he plays chase with the other cats, uses the litter box fine, and is very alert. You can’t even tell that he is sick, except he barely eats on his own, and his skin is still yellow. But he can not live like this forever, his liver will kill him eventually, treatments are not working at this point. I can not pts at this point either, he acts as normal as he ever has. He hasn’t given up, why should I? I plan on going through with the biopsy and hope he can make it through it. I am still in a bad place financially too, Bears meds and fluids are costing about $200 every month. I am being helped by many great giving people, they are helping me get this money together for Bear. Those details are in Bear’s other thread for anyone curious.

\tThe biopsy will help the vet find out the cause of the liver problem, he thinks it is FIP but we will not know for sure without doing this. The vet said it could show something treatable, we just don’t know. I have decided to stop doing bloodwork and save that money towards this surgery, I asked the vet if Bear really REALLY needed the bloodwork, it isn’t showing us anything that we don’t already know (his liver is bad) and it isn’t helping him get better. The vet said that the biopsy is most important at this point. We will do bloodwork before the surgery though, that is included in the total price of the biopsy.

\tI have once again been forced to separate Bear from the other cats, I hate that I have to do it, he is a very social cat. But if this is FIP, then they could catch it, it is highly contagious. It spreads from fecal/oral route. So sharing litter boxes, food bowls, water bowls, mutual grooming, ect can spread it. It is easily killed with normal household soap, so that is a huge plus for me. I have to be very careful and wash my hands after every time I handle Bear, before I can touch my other cats. I can not handle going through this again, I will just die if another one of my cats get as sick as Bear. It is A LOT to go through emotionally. If it is FIP, it WILL kill him. There are no treatments for FIP, it is fatal. There are no effective vaccines for FIP, there is no way to prevent it really. Even the test for FIP is sketchy. Just because a cat tests positive for FIP, it does not mean that they have it, it just means that the cat has been exposed to the Corona Virus. It is the same for if they test negative, that does not mean that the doesn’t have FIP. Very little is known about this virus. We tested him for the FIP anyway, and it did come back postitive, but that only means that he has been exposed to the Corona Virus (different from FIP, it can mutate into FIP). That said, Bear has not given me any signs of giving up or dying. Even if I get a firm diagnosis of FIP from the biopsy, I will not pts until he starts having bad days.

\tHe still acts like a ray of sunshine every day, he is chipper and acts happy. If I had never seen his bloodwork, if he wasn’t yellow, and if he ate, I would swear to you that this cat is completely healthy. I truly and honestly would, that is how normal he acts. He has had very few bad days since this all started over 3 months ago. I would say he has had about 4 days total that he did not feel good, and acted like he was uncomfortable.

\tI have to try everything possible for him, he deserves every chance. I hope I can get the money together, and I hope my boy can make it through the surgery, but at this point it is our very last option. I want to thank each and every one of you for your help thus far, it means the world to me. It may be a while before I can update again, but if something substantial happens I will have someone leave a post to inform you all. Thank you all again, I really mean it.

(We are trying the Denosyl, maybe it will help some, if this isn’t FIP.)


I've been updating Facebook, ummm, I will PM you my user name. (tcs rules lol) No internet at home, but I do have a cell with internet.

 

[mazobear]

Oh, poor Bear (and poor you.) I have a Bear too and this is breaking my heart.

 

[carolina]

Hum..... But if this was FIP, wouldn't he be dead already? Wouldn't the other cats have caught by this time already? The NC doctors are getting to this decision without even seeing him when there are not even definite tests for it?
This situation is beyond weird... I never heard of FIP and yellowing of the skin...

I am glad you are going through with the biopsy, that way you can have a clear picture of what is going on and a plan...

 

[mews2much]

I agree with Carolina.
They thought Ty had fib before he was pts and it was not that.
I am going to see if I can find some one to help you.

 

[booktigger]

They could be thinking DRY FIP, which can have a much better prognosis - cats have been known to live a year after diagnosis with dry. Not sure if it could just affect the liver though, but I wouldnt be worried about isolating him now - the others have been in contact with him, so if he was shedding the virus, they have obviously come into contact with it now, and it doesn't mutate in every cat anyway, most cats can deal with it fine.

Good luck for the biopsy, I hope it shows something treatable.