At wit's end

[billchamb]

Honestly, it does not seem that she is having any trouble with mobility or climbing, as she has been jumping up on our bed at night, the couch, the coffee table (all things that are higher than the box opening) and in the covered boxes and going.  But maybe...

The food situation has included a negligible amount of Blue as we wean back to ZD.

Since this is consistently happening in the 5-6 hours overnight span, we are likely going to set up confining her just for overnights.  I'm not sure how that will convince her to go in the box any more than she does already, but we have to try something.

I'm also considering getting the recommended Zep cleaner (or the Nature's Miracle Urine Destroyer) and washing down the whole floor in that room.  The problem is I'm not convinced that residual odor/stain is the problem since she isn't consistently trying to go in the same places.

The only extensive test we didn't opt for was the $175 full fecal panel.  Still not sure what that would yield.  I know others have described it in this thread.  I guess right now, we're more focused on getting her back to peeing in the box.

 

[mservant]

Have you ever left a camera on the boxes to be able to view what goes on?  A bit extreme but then this kind of calls for extreme measures.  

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Honestly, it does not seem that she is having any trouble with mobility or climbing, as she has been jumping up on our bed at night, the couch, the coffee table (all things that are higher than the box opening) and in the covered boxes and going.  But maybe...

The food situation has included a negligible amount of Blue as we wean back to ZD.

Since this is consistently happening in the 5-6 hours overnight span, we are likely going to set up confining her just for overnights.  I'm not sure how that will convince her to go in the box any more than she does already, but we have to try something.

I'm also considering getting the recommended Zep cleaner (or the Nature's Miracle Urine Destroyer) and washing down the whole floor in that room.  The problem is I'm not convinced that residual odor/stain is the problem since she isn't consistently trying to go in the same places.

The only extensive test we didn't opt for was the $175 full fecal panel.  Still not sure what that would yield.  I know others have described it in this thread.  I guess right now, we're more focused on getting her back to peeing in the box.

Well .. The one difference (that can make a difference) between the couch, bed, coffee table is Sassy doesn't have to jump through a hole first to get to these things?

I know its ideal when both cats can eat the same diet, but when you started implementing the Blue Buffalo, there was some improvement in Sassy's stools. The Z/D has been for Striker's benefit, but it could be that Sassy needs more fibre in her food which the Blue Buffalo might have been giving her. You can do one of two things, increase the amount of Blue in Sassy's feedings, or give her a bit of the psyllium, or pumpkin puree. It makes no sense that she should still be having diarrhea, unless there is some intestinal inflammation, but I am betting its probably the switch in food.

MServant's idea of a camera or webcam would be great, if you can manage this. Something is keeping her out of the box and my gut feeling is not enough space, or maybe some feeling of confinement, whereas when going on the floor, the skies the limit.

 

[billchamb]

 
Have you ever left a camera on the boxes to be able to view what goes on?  A bit extreme but then this kind of calls for extreme measures.  

Thought about it, but can't justify the cost (or I'm just not able to find a cheap one).

 

[donnajean]

Hello,

I have read some of , but not all of your posts on this subject.

I have two cats , both males, 3 1/2 years old and been having health issues with them for over a year now.

My Russian Blue, Spook has urinary issues, first round was Struvite crystals, then about two months ago a blockage, then frequent urination continued and vet diagnosed him with Cystitis , also called Interstitial cystitis, which UA shows no infection, no crystals, etc.., but however sometimes will show blood in UA .

Cystitis is inflammation of the bladder which produces symptoms of frequent trips to litter box, straining to urinate, etc.

Cystitis can also cause a cat to avoid litter box because  they often associate pain with the litter box .

Another reason for avoidance of litter box and more than normal urination could be an undiagnosed case of a UTI infection.

My cat Boo , who has probable IBD, allergies developed a UTI a few weeks back. He was put on Clavamox, which helped but he developed diarrhea second day into the antibiotic. This cat has been a real challenge, trial runs with RX diets, IVD, Z/D, which did not work for his IBD (Inflammatory Bowel disease).

He started out with vomiting once a day, early in the wee hours of the morning, then I took him to the vet and he was positive for Pancreatitis, which he had to be boarded and treated for three days.

 I found that Royal Canin Hypoallergenic rx diet of Duck & Pea in can works really well for him and I also bought Natural Balance Duck & Pea dry.

Right now he is the above plus Fortiflora  and his stool is back to normal and so far no incidence of vomiting .

I am however going to purchase a high quality probiotic for pets called Probiotic Miracle which can beneficial for my Cystitis cat and my IBD cat.

Cats who constantly vomit sometimes have a food intolerance allergy which culprits can be any grains, protein sources like chicken, beef, fish and soy. IBD is a hard one, it is best to try a food they haven't tried before like Duck or Rabbit.

Nature's Variety makes a limited ingredient food in dry and canned . You can purchase it at any Petco  or certain pet supply places.

Natural Balance has a limited ingredient food in Duck & pea, both in dry and canned which can be purchased at many pet supply places

I have purchased feliway diffuser, it does help to a degree.The spray works well also..

My IBD cat is on Elavil also, only 1/4 tab  of a 10 mg , given in the evening, since he is also an easily stressed and anxious boy.

My cystitis cat is on RX Royal canin s/o , mainly in canned with a small amount of the dry and has recently gotten a treatment called A- Cyst from the vet  and takes Cosequin to help with inflammation and his cystitis.

The only time my cat has urinated outside of the litter box was because he had a medical issue, crystals or the pain from his cystitis.

with my vet's blessing I will be giving both of my cats a probiotic it can help with not only GI problems but also inflammation, boosts the immune system .

I tried N-Acetyl Glucosamine for my IBD cat to help heal the mucosa lining but I think because it is made from shell fish he can not tolerate it , he started scratching the second day after giving it to him .

Fish oil, vet said that might be beneficial for inflammation, I purchased Nordic Naturals unflavored (it is not unflavored), I give it to them in their canned food and have been doing this for over 10 days with no ill effects..

So to sum it up, if you have a cat that vomits and has pudding consistency stools or flat out diarrhea it could be a food intolerance or even IBD.

you have a cat that is urinating outside of the litter box, most of the time it can be due to something medical.

If not medical, could the other cat be stalking or causing stress ?

Cats like a private area, away from busy places and other cats sometimes, to do their thing...

I have two litter boxes for each cat, two are located upstairs, two downstairs and one in my walk in closet.

I am still in the experimental stages here, these two cats keep me hopping with their special needs, I also scoop out their litter boxes at least 5 times a day and it is no fun when your babies have something going on that you can't seem to get a hold on.

I know that cats also pick up on our emotions too, it can stress them out if we are stressed or having a tough time.

My IBD cat had a major flair up several months back when a tornado went through our town, next day he was throwing up and developed diarrhea....

Just to let you know you are not alone and I too have been at my wits end many times but I keep on trying....

Good luck and hoping that today is a better day for your babies...

 

[healfl]

Didn't read through all of the posts but if you haven't already, consider trying one of the newer litter boxes where the entrance is low (cat doesn't have to step up so high) she MAY have some arthritis or joint pain that makes it hurt or uncomfortable to get up into the box......? if you don't want to spend the $ on the litter box in case it doesn't help  you might try an extra large aluminum foil pan for a few days and see if it helps. 

 

[mservant]

 
Thought about it, but can't justify the cost (or I'm just not able to find a cheap one).

Anyone you could borrow from?  I couldn't afford something like that either but friends (and other animal lovers) can come in handy sometimes. I wouldn't have a clue how to set it up either but would be out there talking with any and all of my friends' teenagers to see if they would help.  

With all the tests coming out clear and all the different things you have tried it is hard to know what to do.  I am not convinced it is the height of step in to trays that is the issue from behaviour observed so far. Sassy's soiling seems to have deteriorated this time round as her diarrhoea has got worse even though that wasn't even present when the peeing problems started.  There is an element of so many things being tried out and so many things changing that I wonder if a period of observing and not moving anything about or changing anything might help everyone? I know you feel time pressures but sometimes you need to stop and just observe for a while.  And may be partake of a little that 'rescue remedy' we talked about a few days ago?

 

[billchamb]

Latest developments:

Last evening, as Mrs. and I were finishing dinner, we noticed a very small piece of fresh feces on the upstairs, linoleum floor.  Of course this was  upsetting, but it was a very small piece, smaller than a kibble bit.  When I went to the basement, there was another, larger piece on the carpet of the room at the bottom of the stairs (see illustration on an earlier page).  This was also formed, approx. similar to a pipe cleaner bit, maybe 1/4" long.

Behold, in the open-top box there was a well-formed, non-diarrhea stool resting uncovered, atop the litter (a Sassy trademark).

This, indeed, was good news.  I believe the smaller bits we discovered were NOT intentional deposits, but rather "cling-ons" that dropped off as she hastily left the scene of the incident (also a Sassy trademark).

Later last evening, I was resting on the couch watching TV.  Sassy came from our guest bedroom and readily, without provocation launched herself onto me, pacing back and forth across my lap before finally settling in next to me.

And this morning...a clean overnight!!

The mystery continues...

 

[mservant]

The mystery may continue, but as for the launch on to you, trampling over your lap to select her spot and then settling in - 

   I agree, sounds like those little deposits were cling-ons.  Happy day! 

 

[billchamb]

Well, enthusiasm a little dampened at the moment (no pee pun intended!).

Mrs. confessed to being awake at 2:30a because Striker was retching, and while she was up she cleaned the litter boxes.  This likely prevented an accident, but is NOT a healthy lifestyle option for us to pursue.

 

[mservant]

Your enthusiasm hasn't been dampened, it's been subject to a mid-night alarm call.   

    If Sassy has decided that only unused boxes are an option I would have thought that need could have been met on a number of occasions when she has peed on the floor with the boxes you already have?  If not, just add a tray or two more to increase the chances of there being a clean one all night through until you do want to get up.  It may still have been more to do with her diarrhoea being resolved last night so don't start to have images of nighlty 2 am litter alarm waking just yet.  

 

[burkey]

It is great to come back to this thread and read that progress has been made. Some backsliding after a good night yes, but at times Sassy IS doing the right thing! Even though incredibly difficult, it's important to focus on what IS going right, and then try to decipher the WHY behind it.

I think there's a good chance something about that space makes her nervous. It could have been one single really bad incident, that put her off all those months ago and she's not been able to let it go... a loud noise outside the door/window, an animal outside one night, Striker startling her while she was doing her business, etc. It seems like when she IS using the box, she never chooses the covered ones? This indicates the better she can keep an eye on her surroundings, the more likely she is to actually get into the box.

I also think in addition to the nervousness, she's may have also developed a preference for not using an unscooped box. It seems that the nights she does use the floor, she's also frequently made a deposit in the open box?

She obviously knows where she is supposed to go, because accidents aren't happening elsewhere in the house. She's still making a distinct effort to at least try to get it right and that alone is incredibly promising. Most cats with long-standing litter box issues have multiple soiling spots throughout a home.

My instinct says to give her a second open-top box and see what happens. Either another like she has, or even just leave the cover off one (or both!!) of the already existing boxes. Perhaps having more than one open-top (aka "safe") box to use could prove beneficial.

My apologies if any of the above has already been tried or discussed. It's fantastic that you've put so much effort into this, but it does make for a long thread.

Again, wishing you all the best!

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Latest developments:

Last evening, as Mrs. and I were finishing dinner, we noticed a very small piece of fresh feces on the upstairs, linoleum floor.  Of course this was  upsetting, but it was a very small piece, smaller than a kibble bit.  When I went to the basement, there was another, larger piece on the carpet of the room at the bottom of the stairs (see illustration on an earlier page).  This was also formed, approx. similar to a pipe cleaner bit, maybe 1/4" long.

Behold, in the open-top box there was a well-formed, non-diarrhea stool resting uncovered, atop the litter (a Sassy trademark).

This, indeed, was good news.  I believe the smaller bits we discovered were NOT intentional deposits, but rather "cling-ons" that dropped off as she hastily left the scene of the incident (also a Sassy trademark).

Later last evening, I was resting on the couch watching TV.  Sassy came from our guest bedroom and readily, without provocation launched herself onto me, pacing back and forth across my lap before finally settling in next to me.

And this morning...a clean overnight!!

The mystery continues...

Way to go Sassy.  Great progress!

 

[rosieglow]

If you are relocating, your cats will know about it. This affects some cats more than others. It may be that she feels a little insecure and the stress will often affect a cat's behaviour the way you describe.

They key is to keep calm around your cat and behave as 'normally' as you can. Cats pick up on owners moods and feelings. Sorry if I sound nuts, I'm not. Keep her feeling reassured, as if she were a human child.

Feliway, forgive me if you've heard about it, is a product that emulates cats' own hormones and makes them feel at home and secure. I have 2 cats, one of which is nervous, and this was a godsend when we were moving house.

If you can make a quiet room to move the cats into as soon as they get to your lovely new home, along with their litter boxes, toys, food, water, bedding, etc.  and if possible, have the Feliway plugged in for some hours before they arrive, they will have a calm environment to move into; be reassured to see all their familiar stuff and will start to feel instantly at home. We've never had any 'accidents' using this process and the cats settled down very quickly after the journey.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your move. xx

 

[billchamb]

Another clean overnight, and this one with no early morning intervention by either me or Mrs.

Today is off to a good start.  Sassy is slowly becoming more sociable again.

Still fearful of being too confident.

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
Another clean overnight, and this one with no early morning intervention by either me or Mrs.

Today is off to a good start.  Sassy is slowly becoming more sociable again.

Still fearful of being too confident.

Very glad to hear that the good progress continues! ...

No room for white-knuckling at this point.

But stay positive and always hope for the best - There's positive energy in this! .. Realize that when you are feeling confident and happy, your cats will sense this and feel confident and secure. So, don't worry, be happy!

 

 

[mservant]

 
Another clean overnight, and this one with no early morning intervention by either me or Mrs.

Today is off to a good start.  Sassy is slowly becoming more sociable again.

Still fearful of being too confident.

Lovely to hear.  

  It may last or there may be set backs but this is great progress either way. 

  Take the oportunity to relax and enjoy her being more like her usual self, and no timely setbacks from Stiker to stop you chilling out for a while. A little rest and relaxation has to be good for all of you, and you have certainly earned some. 

  

 

[ghostlyy]

I've been following Sassy and Striker's issues for a few days now as I'm experiencing my own issues with my cats, lots of the ideas in this thread have been very helpful and I'm so glad to hear things are slowly starting to improve for you and your kitty family! Please keep us posted! Great job Sassy and great job to two VERY devoted kitty parents!

 

[billchamb]

For those keeping score:

Sassy had a 3-peat of good overnights! (which actually includes 1 overnight with parental intervention, but...hey, I'm willing to count it).

 

[oneandahalfcats]

 
For those keeping score:

Sassy had a 3-peat of good overnights! (which actually includes 1 overnight with parental intervention, but...hey, I'm willing to count it).

Oh my gosh .. You might just be in the home stretch here BillChamb. I sure hope so. Great progress!

My husband and I have retired friends with grown children, who have quite a few cats (like about 12-14 last time we visited) that they have taken in (no names here to protect the innocent as this kind of goes against the local by-laws). Anyway, they have a really lovely, high-end home, and have a setup in the basement in two separate rooms for all the cats where they have built square wooden sandbox type enclosures, in which the litter boxes sit. This contains litter that gets tracked out of the box, as well as any accidents. It occurred to me that you could do something similar at the new home, in placing all open-air tubs on a large mat with a lip or preferably a plastic tray that could contain any future spraying.

Here is a link to one example of a large tray used in the printing industry, for reference : http://www.hawthornprintmaker.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=667

If you google images for 'large plastic trays', you will find a lot of other examples.