A New "Raw"some Beginning... (yup - another one LOL)

[auntie crazy]

From a health perspective, you can probably leave it out for hours (cats in the wild bury their breakfast leftovers and dig 'em up for lunch; 'though I wouldn't really recommend leaving food out for that long).

From a logistical perspective, I think twenty or thirty minutes is tops. Then put the food away and make miss Perla wait until the next meal.

AC

 

[ldg]

Of course rincess: Perla has to make a dramatic entrance and be fashionably late! Only fitting for a rincess:

I was pestering AC with questions earlier about how much to feed who and how. :lol3:

I'm so glad everyone's doing so well! :bigthumb:

And hope you're enjoying a lovely evening. :heart3:

 

[carolina]

Oh hun, just SO happy that they are doing SO well!!!!
I like Auntie's idea of the 20-30 min. rule....... I was afraid of it at first, but it really has worked well for my cats, making mine and kelly's life easier - they just work better that way :nod: Even Lucky, who was a total grazer, knows ow that she has her chance, or else
I have read on my food's FAQ site to feed within 30 min from the time you serve...... I believe that was from Rad Cat..... Different people do different things, though.... I am sure they would be safe if left longer..... :nod:

 

[feralvr]

This post....


...was totally meant for this post!....



Guess I need to use the "quote" function a little more often!!!! 

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Lauren, here's what I come up with for you (this is the calculator I used) for each cat at 3% (I did a little rounding of numbers):

1. Pipsqueak (rounded his weight up to 12 lbs) = 5.75 ounces of raw food per day.

2. Perla (rounded her weight down to 12 lbs) = 5.75 ounces of raw food per day.

3. Perkins (14 lbs) = 6.75 ounces of raw food per day.

4. Presley (rounded his weight down to 13 lbs) = 6.25 ounces of raw food per day.

5. Wendall (rounded his weight down to 13 lbs) = 6.25 ounces of raw food per day.

6. Walden (rounded his weight up to 14 lbs) = 6.75 ounces of raw food per day.

For a total daily fed of 2 pounds and 5.5 ounces of raw food a day.

Now, assuming you're correct and most, if not all, your kitties could stand to lose some weight, they'd be fed as follows at 2% (there's some rounding in here, too):

1. Pipsqueak (12 lbs) = 3.85 ounces of raw food per day.

2. Perla (12 lbs) = 3.85 ounces of raw food per day.

3. Perkins (14 lbs) = 4.50 ounces of raw food per day.

4. Presley (13 lbs) = 4.25 ounces of raw food per day.

5. Wendall (13 lbs) = 4.25 ounces of raw food per day.

6. Walden (14 lbs) = 4.50 ounces of raw food per day.

For a total daily fed of ~1 pound and 9 ounces of raw food a day.

*************************************

I would recommend, however, you either work with your vet to ascertain your kitties' best weights, or have someone you trust with some knowledge of body condition take a look at your cats to see if they really are overweight before you start feeding them at the 2% level. Since you're just starting, I like to err on the side of a little more food than they need rather than a little less than they need.

You should be able to tell from the scale if they're gaining or losing weight within two or three weeks of feeding a measured amount, and you can adjust accordingly from there.

Is that helpful?

AC

YES - This is extremely helpful and thank you very much for doing this for me. Reassures me that I have been feeding the correct amounts - at least for some weigh loss. The vet who saw the three P's in December for their Distemper shots said they could all lose at least a pound... I know that Walden and Wendall are packing on the pounds . Pipsqueak seems only slightly overweight - but I am not worried about him losing any weight. I will be weighing them weekly from now on to make sure we are on the right track. I am still mixing in some canned with each meal too - but only about 1/2 ounce. It does have recommendations on the bag but I am glad to have the exact calculations for my cats... Thank you also for the link to the calculator - SO appreciate that! and

 

[feralvr]

From a health perspective, you can probably leave it out for hours (cats in the wild bury their breakfast leftovers and dig 'em up for lunch; 'though I wouldn't really recommend leaving food out for that long).

From a logistical perspective, I think twenty or thirty minutes is tops. Then put the food away and make miss Perla wait until the next meal.

AC

Perfect - that reassures me !!! I was so worried that the raw food sitting on the plate waiting for the rincess: was spoiling by the minute. Now I won't worry so much.

 

[feralvr]

So.... we can't expect everyday to be perfect..... at least in the beginning of this process. Breakfast went very well for everyone except Pipsqueak. . On the menu was Nature's Logic Chicken (new for today) and a little bit of Venison each. Everyone chowed down - Perla needed some Fortiflora sprinkled every so often . Pipsqueak ate about 3/4 of his meal and then was following me around meowing. I took his bowl away. Within a few minutes up it all came. Again, this went on for about fifteen minutes until there was nothing but white foam. He was very :nausea:. NOW the Nature's Logic meats are really juicy red. I was very impressed with the look of the meat in comparison to Nature's Variety. Very impressed. BUT obviously too rich for Pipsqueak. I MUST MUST MUST remember to go MUCH MUCH MUCH slower in this transition with Pipsqueak. Absolutely this proved it to me. He cannot tolerate too much raw meat in one feeding - not like the other's. I waited about two hours again and fed Pipsqueak again who was very hungry and asking for food. I just wanted his tummy to settle down. He had 1/2 medallion of NV rabbit and EVO duck wet food. He did fine - and that stayed down. At first, I got very discouraged about this raw for Pip - thinking this is not good for him. He has been dropping poops on the floor here and there too. He always has had this problem though - but it is more so since the raw. I just think his system is adjusting differently than the other cats. I will stick with it for him because I do know this diet is the best for him considering all of his health issues. I just have to take it much slower with him than the other's. Walden and Wendall are on 100% raw now with no problems at all. The other's are taking a bit more work. :nod: Perla, Perkins and Presley are at about 75% raw - Pipsqueak much less than that because of the problems I have had with him this week. .

Yesterday, I did pick up some Nature's Logic Rabbit, I LOVE their product - the meat is really, really nice :nod:. I am hoping that Pipsqueak will do well on the rabbit since he loves that protein and does so well on NV rabbit. Also - found another store close to me that sells Primal Plan on checking that place out in a day or so. I am also LOVING what I am finding out about the Nature's MENU AND THE PRICE - you are right, Carolina , it is incredible! I will be ordering in some of that.

I have noticed an incredible change though in Pipsqueak's urine clumps!!!!! They are SO much bigger now almost like when he was on the Elavil !!! To me, that IS a HUGE HUGE wonderful sign. I also tested his PH yesterday - it was exactly 6.5....... It has been as high as 7.5 to 8 before...... So that IS EXCELLENT . Poops are just awesome, or as awesome as poops can be. :lol3:

Will report dinner later. :cross: For Pipsqueak. Lamb for dinner - and all have done well on the lamb. :nod:

 

[ldg]

Aw Lauren, I'm sorry about Pip. Our Shel has a sensitive tummy, and I have to remember not to just give him a new food. :nod: Also - with the commercial raws, each one has different ingredients, so when you buy the same protein, it's not the same food, you know? It's not like switching from rabbit protein sourced from a local butcher to rabbit protein sourced from an online store: there's more to each product than the protein. :nod:

BUT... of course it's VERY exciting to hear the news about his bladder health! THAT is something that makes us smile!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Thanks Laurie ! Pipsqueak has never had a sensitive tummy before - and I have to wonder if the "cold" food is too much for his tummy. Now I don't mean fridge cold - but the meat I serve is definitely "quite cool". I do add a teeny bit of warm water so that helps. I guess I am just comparing the raw to the wet. With wet food - I could interchange ANY brand of wet food and never has he puked. So I think the raw is a bit more dense and rich for his tummy. I will take it much slower for him and learned my lesson twice (I learn the hard way sometimes :lol3 to just add a teeny bit of the new brand/protein. :nod:

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Tonight was NV rabbit 75% and Nature's Logic chicken 25%. Pipsqueak ate only the rabbit though. I was too worried to give Pip the NL chicken tonight. So... Walden and Wendall eat first and I feed them in the foster room now. They both eat everything I serve them - excellent raw eater's and I only wish the other four would follow suit The other four P's eat downstairs. So tonight - I have four picky eaters I was so frustrated and going in circles trying to get them to eat their dinner's and mixing in other things for them. THEN I was worried I was contaminating everything in my "tizzy" to get them to eat. It was just nuts tonight. Perla of course, decided to run off. So I just concentrated on the other three - Pipsqueak, Perkins and Presley. Don't know what the problem was... but I broke out the Fancy Feast chicken because the Fortiflora was not working. Just topped the meat with a teeny bit of FF and then they dove in.... PHEW. But Perkins did not finish his meal and Presley left a little. Also Pipsqueak only ate about 1/2 of his dinner. Then Perla came back "fashionably late" as usual and jumped on the counter - she ate 3/4 of her meal with Fortiflora.


My concern is this.... so today Pipsqueak only had about 1.5 ounce of raw meat - about 1 ounce of wet. Perkins, Presley and Perla only had about 2 oz. each of raw and a little wet. This is not enough food - so I offered them another meal - not interested and I really think they wanted some dry. How can they not be hungry!!!!! I was feeling so frustrated and feeling like giving in to the dry and wet food again. I do know they need to lose a little bit of weight - like some of Laurie's kitties , and I shouldn't worry so much that they are not getting 4 oz. each and everyday - but I can't help it. This is so hard at times and is making me feel a bit stressed during feedings Anticipating them NOT eating..... Thank goodness Walden and Wendall eat so well. Although, I don't supervise their eating - I don't have to. I just put the plates down and leave the room. I wish I could do that with the other four - would make life so much easier. I won't give up and will stick with it for sure. Today just wasn't the best eating day - we will see what tomorrow will bring :cross:

SO I have a few questions because I am curious how you are keeping things sanitized too.

1. What type of placemats do you use under the plates? My placemats are a poly/cotton blend on top and rubber on the bottom. I wipe them down with the Clorox wipes if some food dropped off of the plate. Is that good enough?

2. What type of sanitizer do you use to clean up countertops, etc. I have also heard that Hydrogen Pyroxide in one spray bottle and White Vinegar in another spray bottle - spritzing one right after the other kills bacteria. The order of use does not matter.

3. Am I being to "anal" :rofl: with worrying about sanitizing every little spot that a speck of meat touched ??? For example, let's say a small piece fell out of someone's mouth on the floor and I didn't notice it... Is that a problem or just a problem in my mind ? :lol3:

One step at a time - I just have to allow that somedays - at least in the beginning - things will not be going smoothly. Kind of like life sometimes :bigmouth: I think I need "Raw Feeding Therapy" :spit:

 

[ldg]

Well, I think Carolina learned pretty quickly that they pick up on your stress, and that can affect how they eat. :nod: So taking a few, long deep breaths before you start fixing their meals and trying to remind yourself to stay as calm as possible when/if they're not eating might help.

I had a similar issue - how long do I let it go before I give in and give someone canned food? When I stopped feeding kibble to anyone, for any reason, Tuxie went on a food boycott. That was for a few days. He ate - but not nearly what he should have been. At first I was giving him canned, but then I decided to get into the battle of the wills. I'm sure he dropped weight over that couple of days - just a few days ago. But now he's (mostly) eating fine. I don't even BOTHER putting the food down in front of him without fortiflora (though I did chop off a little bit of beef just to see - and he ate that without anything LOL). And he usually needs some of that or the Halo chicken added at least once, if not twice. But he's eating more and more without as much coaxing.

Spooky and Lazlo, however, sometimes eat nothing, or a couple of bites, and they're done. They don't worry me though, because they both almost always make up for it at the next meal. Or Lazlo just isn't hungry at meal time (or the activity scares him - he thinks we're taking him to the vet and he hides under the bed LOL so he just misses the meal), and I do let him eat off schedule. :anon: I'm MUCH happier now that I'm stocked up on Halo to rehydrate for him or S&C to rehydrate for him, so I can give him that instead of canned.

But Shelly... Like your Pip, I'm starting to feel in a bit of a quandry about it. We're pushing 2.5 days now where he's only had a couple good meals, and is now typically walking away after a couple of bites. :slant: And I haven't given in - YET - to giving him canned or something between meals. I did rehydrate some S&C for him at dinner today, and he ate that - but not nearly enough.

I'm giving it tonight and breakfast, and then I'm probably breaking down and starting over with him, mixing his raw with canned.

But the bottom line is... I think you have two choices:

1) Fuss and coax, doing your best not to stress. Give them that 20 minutes - half hour to finish (or not). And give it another day, given all of them are eating at least SOMETHING. It's not what they need, and it's not the healthy way, to lose weight that fast - but that's why you shouldn't let it go TOO long.

2) OR... back up, and mix some canned in there at the start, and just take moving to 100% slower. :nod:

My thinking in the move to 100% raw as quickly as I did was because of "the kibble experience." :lol3: As long as they thought kibble was an option, they wanted it. The canned was great in introducing the raw: but for a couple of them, knowing the canned was an option, they didn't want to eat the raw. So for me, it was just "easier" to remove the canned. I didn't use it with the food, or at meals at all. I only used other stuff (Halo chicken, Fortiflora, and dried liver - and now dried turkey) as the "incentive." But I sabotaged my effort by feeding Lazlo (and at times Flowerbelle and Tux) "on demand" canned. Now that I've refused to cave on it for Tuxie for the past... 2? 3? days, he's eating his meals MUCH better!

Now that I have the S&C dehydrated, that is what anyone eating something between meals will get (or maybe halo or turkey).

ALL of that said... if Tux were still refusing to eat well, I'd probably go back to just mixing his raw with some canned right from the start. And I may do that with Shel. We'll just have to see.

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I don't put placemats down. The only one that gets bits of food out of the bowl is Ming Loy, and she eats on the wood floor in the kitchen. I just give a spritz of the BioKleen stuff I use and wipe up the area when dinner's done.

The way I prepare dinner is simple. When I dethaw, each meal is in one ziplock bag. I put it in warm water before I feed them. If I need to, I smoosh it around in warm running water. I then mush it all down to the bottom of the baggie. I put a paper towel down on the counter, and set the baggie on that. I use scissors to cut the baggie just above where the food ends. I use a spoon to put the dollops of food in each bowl. As I still mix water into their food, I do that. I then roll up the paper towel and toss the empty baggie, and wash the spoon. The kitties that need "toppers" on their food, I do that, then I put the bowls down for them to eat. There isn't anything on the counter that needs to be cleaned at that point. I collect their dishes in the sink as they finish. The bowls that aren't empty either get offered to other cats when I'm sure someone isn't going to eat any more - or it gets dumped into a paper bowl for the ferals. I wash the dishes with really a really soapy sponge (and I have a separate sponge now for "raw meat bowls and utensils." When that's all done, I have a spray bottle into which I've put bleach. I spritz the bottom and sides of the sink, let it sit for about 10, and then wash the sink with warm soapy water, and rinse. And then I clean up the floor where Mingle ate.

I think your placemat cleaning method is fine. And I doubt you need to worry about little pieces you missed. If they're that little you don't notice them, you know? You probably wash your floors and vacuum pretty regularly - and maybe even steam clean the carpets every once in a while? I'm pretty sure that'll take care of that specks-of-food-so-small-you-don't-notice-it problem.

 

[carolina]

On the menu was Nature's Logic Chicken (new for today) and a little bit of Venison each. Everyone chowed down - Perla needed some Fortiflora sprinkled every so often . Pipsqueak ate about 3/4 of his meal and then was following me around meowing. I took his bowl away. Within a few minutes up it all came. Again, this went on for about fifteen minutes until there was nothing but white foam. He was very :nausea:. NOW the Nature's Logic meats are really juicy red. I was very impressed with the look of the meat in comparison to Nature's Variety. Very impressed. BUT obviously too rich for Pipsqueak. I MUST MUST MUST remember to go MUCH MUCH MUCH slower in this transition with Pipsqueak. Absolutely this proved it to me. He cannot tolerate too much raw meat in one feeding - not like the other's. I waited about two hours again and fed Pipsqueak again who was very hungry and asking for food. I just wanted his tummy to settle down. He had 1/2 medallion of NV rabbit and EVO duck wet food. He did fine - and that stayed down. At first, I got very discouraged about this raw for Pip - thinking this is not good for him. He has been dropping poops on the floor here and there too. He always has had this problem though - but it is more so since the raw. I just think his system is adjusting differently than the other cats. I will stick with it for him because I do know this diet is the best for him considering all of his health issues. I just have to take it much slower with him than the other's. Walden and Wendall are on 100% raw now with no problems at all. The other's are taking a bit more work. :nod: Perla, Perkins and Presley are at about 75% raw - Pipsqueak much less than that because of the problems I have had with him this week. .

Lauren, I don't think that his problem is that he can't tolerate the raw.... I think he just needs slower introductions..... I do every introduction much slower.... I don't just give a new protein like that.... or it will e trouble - with both Bugsy and Lucky - Bugsy diarrhea, Hope Vomiting; so here is what I do:
Day 1 of introduction of new protein or new brand: 25% new protein (or brand)/75% old protein brand. This mixture will be fed for the whole day, until I see the next poop. If the reaction is positive, I move to 50/50 for day 2. I do 3 meals at least of 50/50..... and make sure to see the poops. Then move to 75/25...... same thing.... three meals of that, until the next poop, then 100%, and the meat is on rotation. So, full intro takes 4 days.
This has worked very very well for us :nod:
Bugsy and Hope are two quite sensitive kitties - Bugsy to an extreme..... and he takes anything if I do it like that. But the key is to do it slowly.

Thanks Laurie ! Pipsqueak has never had a sensitive tummy before - and I have to wonder if the "cold" food is too much for his tummy. Now I don't mean fridge cold - but the meat I serve is definitely "quite cool". I do add a teeny bit of warm water so that helps. I guess I am just comparing the raw to the wet. With wet food - I could interchange ANY brand of wet food and never has he puked. So I think the raw is a bit more dense and rich for his tummy. I will take it much slower for him and learned my lesson twice (I learn the hard way sometimes :lol3 to just add a teeny bit of the new brand/protein. :nod:

It is said that some kitties will have problems with cold raw food, including with vomiting..... You might try warming it up to see if it helps..... :nod:

SO I have a few questions because I am curious how you are keeping things sanitized too.
1. What type of placemats do you use under the plates? My placemats are a poly/cotton blend on top and rubber on the bottom. I wipe them down with the Clorox wipes if some food dropped off of the plate. Is that good enough?
2. What type of sanitizer do you use to clean up countertops, etc. I have also heard that Hydrogen Pyroxide in one spray bottle and White Vinegar in another spray bottle - spritzing one right after the other kills bacteria. The order of use does not matter.
3. Am I being to "anal" :rofl: with worrying about sanitizing every little spot that a speck of meat touched ??? For example, let's say a small piece fell out of someone's mouth on the floor and I didn't notice it... Is that a problem or just a problem in my mind ? :lol3:
One step at a time - I just have to allow that somedays - at least in the beginning - things will not be going smoothly. Kind of like life sometimes :bigmouth: I think I need "Raw Feeding Therapy" :spit:

1- regular plates, plastic placemats, so I can sanitize them
2- Clorox anywhere - LOVE it!!
3- I wipe the obvious places - but I don't go looking for it with a microscope......

Well, I think Carolina learned pretty quickly that they pick up on your stress, and that can affect how they eat. :nod: So taking a few, long deep breaths before you start fixing their meals and trying to remind yourself to stay as calm as possible when/if they're not eating might help.

it doesn't help AT all...... they are so sensitive...... stress = failed meals.... big time :nod:

I had a similar issue - how long do I let it go before I give in and give someone canned food? When I stopped feeding kibble to anyone, for any reason, Tuxie went on a food boycott. That was for a few days. He ate - but not nearly what he should have been. At first I was giving him canned, but then I decided to get into the battle of the wills. I'm sure he dropped weight over that couple of days - just a few days ago. But now he's (mostly) eating fine. I don't even BOTHER putting the food down in front of him without fortiflora (though I did chop off a little bit of beef just to see - and he ate that without anything LOL). And he usually needs some of that or the Halo chicken added at least once, if not twice. But he's eating more and more without as much coaxing.
Spooky and Lazlo, however, sometimes eat nothing, or a couple of bites, and they're done. They don't worry me though, because they both almost always make up for it at the next meal. Or Lazlo just isn't hungry at meal time (or the activity scares him - he thinks we're taking him to the vet and he hides under the bed LOL so he just misses the meal), and I do let him eat off schedule. :anon: I'm MUCH happier now that I'm stocked up on Halo to rehydrate for him or S&C to rehydrate for him, so I can give him that instead of canned.
But Shelly... Like your Pip, I'm starting to feel in a bit of a quandry about it. We're pushing 2.5 days now where he's only had a couple good meals, and is now typically walking away after a couple of bites. :slant: And I haven't given in - YET - to giving him canned or something between meals. I did rehydrate some S&C for him at dinner today, and he ate that - but not nearly enough.
I'm giving it tonight and breakfast, and then I'm probably breaking down and starting over with him, mixing his raw with canned.
But the bottom line is... I think you have two choices:
1) Fuss and coax, doing your best not to stress. Give them that 20 minutes - half hour to finish (or not). And give it another day, given all of them are eating at least SOMETHING. It's not what they need, and it's not the healthy way, to lose weight that fast - but that's why you shouldn't let it go TOO long.
2) OR... back up, and mix some canned in there at the start, and just take moving to 100% slower. :nod:
My thinking in the move to 100% raw as quickly as I did was because of "the kibble experience." :lol3: As long as they thought kibble was an option, they wanted it. The canned was great in introducing the raw: but for a couple of them, knowing the canned was an option, they didn't want to eat the raw. So for me, it was just "easier" to remove the canned. I didn't use it with the food, or at meals at all. I only used other stuff (Halo chicken, Fortiflora, and dried liver - and now dried turkey) as the "incentive." But I sabotaged my effort by feeding Lazlo (and at times Flowerbelle and Tux) "on demand" canned. Now that I've refused to cave on it for Tuxie for the past... 2? 3? days, he's eating his meals MUCH better!
Now that I have the S&C dehydrated, that is what anyone eating something between meals will get (or maybe halo or turkey).
ALL of that said... if Tux were still refusing to eat well, I'd probably go back to just mixing his raw with some canned right from the start. And I may do that with Shel. We'll just have to see.

HUGE balance.... and a very stressful one for our moms, that's for sure...... I think this was one that almost pushed me to the edge......
I think a few things definitely helped me here......
One - the slow intros - for sure, that was a key.....
Routine..... I do supervise exactly what they eat, how much they eat every meal. I make sure they eat as close to that quantity every single meal - that helps me gauge how fast or slow to move into the transition, assuring that they will eat a proper amount of food - they will be used to the taste, and to that volume :nod: If you move slowly, they won't notice that much difference.... At least that was my experience.....
When I was transitioning from wet, I was transitioning from tea-spoon to tea-spoon. Meaning: Day one: One tea-spoon of raw, to a can of wet. Day two: remove 2 tsp of wet, add of raw..... day three - add another of raw, remove one of wet..... Sure, it took a while, but by the time they got to 100% raw, they were eating full meals....
The other thing I did was..... after the transition was done - NO wet, NO kibbles. This was it. If they didn't eat enough, I will supplement it with halo treats, or tasty raw treats - but I will not give them the option of boycotting their raw meals for the can - kitties are smart...... they will not eat a new food they are not used to, if they know they have their good old friends out there on demand :nod:
Even for the treats, we need to outsmart them - I learned I can't give treats right after the meals - otherwise they will forgo the meals waiting for the treats Treats are at least a couple of hours after the meals - yep, they WILL go hungry if they don't eat.

Now..... I do NOT believe in giving them less food than what they need for longer than a day or two...... Dr. Pierson has a great line about this: it is not about starving a cat into eating raw, it is about convincing them to eat it :nod:
I don't know if any of that helps.... just my experiences......

 

[feralvr]

Laurie and Carolina - to both of you :heart3: :heart3: :heart3: I can't thank you both enough for taking the time to address my concerns at the moment. Your posts were very much appreciated and very much taken to heart :heart3: and brain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are so supportive and I rely on that, especially right now :nod: I will take the transition to the new proteins/brands much, much slower now. I just assumed it was like feeding wet food. I could easily introduce a new wet food to my cats without any problems at all. I assumed that the raw would be the same way - WRONG. Must introduce very slowly. It is much safer this way and I certainly DO NOT want to clean up raw meat It helps to be able to talk out the frustrations of this transition, especially in the beginning stages. SO THANK YOU

Laurie - I so appreciate you describing exactly how you prepare your meals. It was like reading a story and I was so enthralled by it!!!!! It sounds so simple the way you do it.... I like how you use the scissors to open up the ziploc bag.... easier to spoon the meat that way!! SEE thanks, another great tip . I also have a different scrubbie for pet food bowls - absolutely would not use that on our plates .... We also do clean the carpets frequently since I started feeding Wilbur by hand on the carpet - some would drop - especially if he spit it out. But we are past that for now and he is eating from a bowl again It HAS to be this raw diet AND the combination of the Homeopathics. Just amazing ............. I am blessed and thankful to God for everyday more that I have to share with this wonderful little dog..... (now I have tears..... Oh dear.............) Back to reality :lol3:

Carolina - thank you for telling me your introduction plan and how many days you take to fully incorporate a new brand/protein into the rotation. Question..... Once you have introduced that protein/brand into the rotation - are we good to go then the next time you get to that rotated brand - in other words - you could feed it at a higher percentage or 100% for a meal??? Am I making sense with that :lol3:

I feel better about cleaning up not too :nod: I have been using a bleach cleaner as well - after everyone is completely done eating and away from the area. I might have to forego the "cloth" placemats because I am not sure how effectively sanitized they are getting after the meals. Will pick some cheap plastic mats at Walmart . I also use a lot of disposable gloves and am hoping to become more efficient in handling the meat. I am also going to make sure the meat is NOT cold anymore. I am sure this is a huge problem for Pipsqueak. It seems that Walden and Wendall can eat anything at any temperature. Makes it so much easier with them. They are both on 95% raw and only EVO at night as a treat, just a few pieces.

This morning was S&C Lamb - Everyone ate very, very well except Pipsqueak. Perla ate a very GOOD meal this morning Pipsqueak refused it totally - even mixed with EVO wet. Since he had a bad day yesterday - I fed him canned food this morning. I will not hold out on him right now - I just can't do it to him. He will be a tough one - and I have to start back at square one with him. So tonight - will be Nature's Logic Chicken - .25 ounce and wet food for Pipsqueak. The other's will be getting NV Venison and Nature's Logic Chicken 50/50. I am going to order the Whole Life chicken treats that Auntie suggested today for Pipsqueak - hopefully he will love those treats as he refuses the Halo and Bonito Flakes. Go figure.... I have to realize that with Pipsqueak - he was a kibble food junky and it took me quite awhile to get him on wet food. SO I am sure it will take quite awhile to get him on raw also. I have to be patient and I will not get upset anymore if a meal goes bad :nausea: or is refused. I cannot let myself get that stressed out like I did yesterday Not good for me and not good for my babies. They WILL eat and will not starve themselves. I love that quote, Carolina, from Dr. Pierson - about how we have to "convince" them to eat the raw - wonderful lasting thought in your post. Thank you!!!

 

[feralvr]

OH- this was the thrill of my "bad" day yesterday :lol3: I remembered I have a good quality digital kitchen scale that I got a couple of years ago to weigh foster kitten's :happy3: SO NOW I can weigh my meat!! I was so glad I remembered I had that because I was wondering about the Nature's Logic patties. They are bigger and there was nothing on the bag to tell you how many ounces each pattie weighs. Then on went the and I found the digital scale. Practically brand new too. Each Nature's Logic patty weighs 3.8 ounces. AND the S&C small patties each weigh about 1.5 ounce. That scale will come in very handy :bigthumb:

 

[feralvr]

OH.... :lol3: I forgot to add the good news and improvements that I have been seeing as well.

NO MORE CHIN ACNE - ZERO.... No dirt - no need to clean chins weekly anymore and Pipsqueak is totally off Prednisone Although, since I am starting over with Pip - he might have a flare-up but we will see - so far so good.

Wendall ALWAYS had teeny, tiny pieces of poop stuck to his bum.... NOPE all gone now - perfectly clean cute little bum now. Same for Perkins - he always had dried flakes (I know I don't know what else to call them) All butts are actually very nice and clean now! Wendall's tummy is still not as bloated either - wonderful sign to me.

Large urine clumps and less of them. Less poop in the pan and when there is poop - so easy to clean out now. Makes litter box cleaning so much easier now

Wendall and Perla ARE getting along SO much better, I just can't believe it. I think Wendall just feels better. Both Walden and Wendall would chew up those cardboard scratching pads while they waited for their food OR if they are hungry. There has been ZERO pieces of cardboard strewn about. Wendall and Walden are really 100% raw eating now and reaping the benefits in every way. Now .... if just my other four would cooperate.

I just LOVE LOVE the changes I am seeing in my cats... Just jumping for joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[carolina]

Carolina - thank you for telling me your introduction plan and how many days you take to fully incorporate a new brand/protein into the rotation. Question..... Once you have introduced that protein/brand into the rotation - are we good to go then the next time you get to that rotated brand - in other words - you could feed it at a higher percentage or 100% for a meal??? Am I making sense with that :lol3:

Yep - you are making total sense - and yes! once they have been introduced, the food is on full rotation :bigthumb: For example - I will feed 100% chicken for breakfast, 100% lamb for dinner, and 100% turkey for late night dinner - they LOVE it like that

I treat a raw intro like a mini- dry intro...... not as slow, but you get the point...... if there is trouble, I stay a little longer, or take a step back..... if everything is ok, move ahead :nod:
But the difference is the rotation - rotate the meals with no problems, like wet, once they have been introduced - and I can mix them too..... if I am running out of the proteins.....

 

[ldg]

OH.... :lol3: I forgot to add the good news and improvements that I have been seeing as well.
NO MORE CHIN ACNE - ZERO.... No dirt - no need to clean chins weekly anymore and Pipsqueak is totally off Prednisone Although, since I am starting over with Pip - he might have a flare-up but we will see - so far so good.
Wendall ALWAYS had teeny, tiny pieces of poop stuck to his bum.... NOPE all gone now - perfectly clean cute little bum now. Same for Perkins - he always had dried flakes (I know I don't know what else to call them) All butts are actually very nice and clean now! Wendall's tummy is still not as bloated either - wonderful sign to me.
Large urine clumps and less of them. Less poop in the pan and when there is poop - so easy to clean out now. Makes litter box cleaning so much easier now
Wendall and Perla ARE getting along SO much better, I just can't believe it. I think Wendall just feels better. Both Walden and Wendall would chew up those cardboard scratching pads while they waited for their food OR if they are hungry. There has been ZERO pieces of cardboard strewn about. Wendall and Walden are really 100% raw eating now and reaping the benefits in every way. Now .... if just my other four would cooperate.
I just LOVE LOVE the changes I am seeing in my cats... Just jumping for joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh that's FABULOUS news, Lauren! Oh I'm just all smiles now!

 

[feralvr]

Yep - you are making total sense - and yes! once they have been introduced, the food is on full rotation :bigthumb: For example - I will feed 100% chicken for breakfast, 100% lamb for dinner, and 100% turkey for late night dinner - they LOVE it like that
I treat a raw intro like a mini- dry intro...... not as slow, but you get the point...... if there is trouble, I stay a little longer, or take a step back..... if everything is ok, move ahead :nod:
But the difference is the rotation - rotate the meals with no problems, like wet, once they have been introduced - and I can mix them too..... if I am running out of the proteins.....

OK then ..... off we go to the next introduction which will be tomorrow or Sunday. I am going to pick up some Primal Turkey tomorrow at the new natural store I found BUT I will only add about 25% of the new and go from there depending on how they take to it. So far though, even with my two mistakes this week with intros, :lol3: Presley, Walden and Wendall have steel drums for tummies... no problems with those boys!

 

[feralvr]

Oh that's FABULOUS news, Lauren! Oh I'm just all smiles now!

back at ya :heart3:

SO.... tonight - WELL let this tell you the story... My 50/50 Venison and NL (Nature's Logic) chicken was a hit..... Pipsqueak had about 1/2 of his meal and then was done meowing for what he thought was coming. Poor guy, it didn't come Everyone ate very well. Yes, I had to add a little Fortiflora here and there for the four P's - but they ate well. Walden and Wendall don't need any topper's. MAN those two are just the easiest kitties on the planet to feed. They are total raw converts now. SO the day began well and is ending well. They will get their bedtime snack of course, EVO. I am thinking of offering instead of the bedtime EVO - the Vital Essential's freeze-dried chicken OR the S&C freeze dried chicken. So foregoing all dry food and use the freeze-dried raw in it's place.

I am also starting to see if I can find a full-time petsitter. Someone that would basically "move" in while we were gone. Then I wouldn't have to worry so much about keeping kibble in the mix right now and focus more on transitioning to 100%. A friend of mine has a great lady that does that. She never leaves. If I could find someone like that then I could even leave my boys Wilbur and Henry home too. They require frequent potty breaks and Wilbur is a bit of work too with his meals. I would need someone to stay around the clock. Henry has a serious separation anxiety disorder so he needs to be with someone 24/7. High maintenance - YES :lol3: All of my pet's seem to be that way - except the sweet, darling boys Walden and Wendall. AWWWWW they are just so happy to have such a wonderful, stable home that I think they are just so happy to have anything I have to offer. Such dear boys those two :heart3:

 

[carolina]

So foregoing all dry food and use the freeze-dried raw in it's place.

Hummmmmmm yep - IMHO that's the step that will make your transition that much more successful..... and it will help them eat. They WILL eat better if you drop the kibbles..... IMHO they will always have that in the back of their minds - "I have a choice here..... If I don't eat, mom will give me kibbles later" To me, a bit of wet while they are going through introduction (if Pipsqueak is still eating for example - not as a treat..... and raw/freeze dry treat :nod: that's what I would feed them..... if you intend to transition them to 100%. I do understand your fear though It is hard for us But you can do it :bigthumb:

I am also starting to see if I can find a full-time petsitter. Someone that would basically "move" in while we were gone. Then I wouldn't have to worry so much about keeping kibble in the mix right now and focus more on transitioning to 100%.

I do this..... Sure, Kelly works at day time, but she does move in.... It is a great comfort to me knowing that Bugsy has someone to cuddle at night, that they are being watched closely, receiving love... and that their routine is maintained..... It is not cheap, but they are my babies..... and babies are not cheap, are they :lol3:
It is the only way I can possibly bear to be away :nod:

 

[feralvr]

Hummmmmmm yep - IMHO that's the step that will make your transition that much more successful..... and it will help them eat. They WILL eat better if you drop the kibbles..... IMHO they will always have that in the back of their minds - "I have a choice here..... If I don't eat, mom will give me kibbles later" To me, a bit of wet while they are going through introduction (if Pipsqueak is still eating for example - not as a treat..... and raw/freeze dry treat :nod: that's what I would feed them..... if you intend to transition them to 100%. I do understand your fear though It is hard for us But you can do it :bigthumb:
I do this..... Sure, Kelly works at day time, but she does move in.... It is a great comfort to me knowing that Bugsy has someone to cuddle at night, that they are being watched closely, receiving love... and that their routine is maintained..... It is not cheap, but they are my babies..... and babies are not cheap, are they :lol3:
It is the only way I can possibly bear to be away :nod:

I have to order the Whole Life treats for Pipsqueak and see if he likes them. He will not eat the freeze-dried raw food - I tried again last night with the Vital Essentials. He is going to be a real tough one to transition.

As for the petsitter - - I really need someone to be here ALL day - because of my older dog's now. They require so much attention. I am going to ask my friend if her lady would be interested :cross: I already pay mega bucks anyway. Boarding two dogs and having a cat sitter come in three times a day. I know... that is a lot, but I feel better that they are getting looked at three times a day with extra attention. So a live-in would probably be the same daily cost as what I am already paying :happy3: NOW just to find such a trustworthy person

 

[feralvr]

Morning !!!!! Breakfast was great for everyone except Pipsqueak..... Perla ate almost 2 ounces of raw plus some added Weruva canned. I was SO happy about that. Everyone else enjoyed the Nature's Logic Chicken this morning. BUT Pipsqueak - I only gave him 25% NL chicken and the rest Weruva canned. He only ate about half of his meal. He was fine for over an hour and I thought YAY - ALL IS GOOD. NOPE - it all came up and he was pretty ill AGAIN. I have decided to stop all raw with him UNTIL I can discern IF this is the raw OR is he still sick and needs a vet. I will wait at least five days. If no vomiting - then I will start him back up on Nature's Variety - as he takes to that raw just fine - the chicken and rabbit - not the venison. I am not going to rotate the venison anymore because now the other three P's decided they don't like the venison anymore and I have to keep topping it with the "drugs" :lol3:. Walden and Wendall are dong just great though. I am just worried about Pipsqueak and this vomiting. I have to eliminate what is new and see if stops. :cross: