A New "Raw"some Beginning... (yup - another one LOL)

[mrsgreenjeens]

for another Raw thread!!!  (I can't wait until I have my own going)

ME EITHER.... Sally - HURRY UP!!!!!

If eating the Halo Liv-a-littles freeze dried chicken counts as raw, I guess I could start my thread NOW.  3 of mine are eating those now...and Sven actually ate some of them RE-hydrated

 

[ldg]

Oh Lauren! Poor babies! I'm SO lucky - only had one puking incident (and it wasn't even due to the raw! :lol3: ). But at least I've gotten the reminder, loud and clear - introduce new proteins slowly. When I was still mixing their food with canned, I didn't have to really think about that. But now that they're all raw.... guess I'd better.

to you and for the kitties! I'm guessing they feel fine now, and will have a normal meal later. :nod: :cross:

I do have disappointing news for you. We're not heading out to the shop today. Gary's making stew, and we'll be freezing it tomorrow... so I have to work down more raw for the kitties to have room for new food for them. I'd better find a freezer, fast. :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

Lauren, I'm puzzled - the cats all loved it and you know they ate too much too fast which caused the vomiting, so why would you NOT feed this again, just in smaller amounts, or smooshed down (or whatever) to slow down the pace of their eating?

Just curious.
AC

It just really scared me to see Pipsqueak that sick. He went on for twenty minutes retching even after all the food was out of his stomach. WELL guess what - I broke down at lunchtime because he was so very hungry. and wasn't interested in anything to eat other than dry :anon: So he had some dry - then proceeded to puke twenty minutes later..... It could be the virus he is still getting over and that made his tummy sick all morning :dk: OR when he puked up the venison he also was just medicated with Metronidazole and I think that came up too and the bitter taste made him go on and on, that was the foamy part in the end. But I get very concerned about Pip and don't want to see him sick like that again. I might try the venison with him - just a touch - in a few days. Perla and Perkins - yes - you are right and as the day has gone on, I realized I might have been to hasty in giving up on the venison - I might give it one more try. Just a tiny amount in the next few days again - just to see. My cat's are always famished by morning and they do eat fast for the morning meal - but I have never had puking like that. It must be because the raw is so filling - more so than wet food - right? so it was just too much in their tummies. Auntie

 

[feralvr]

I was wondering the same thing.  Also, what is Mack/Jack? 

Weruva's Mack and Jack - grain-free red meat tuna/mackerel based wet food. Cats go crazy for that stuff. Great in a pinch to get a cat to eat. I used that as an appetite stimulant for Perla last Fall when she became so picky and now she is addicted to tuna . BUT we are getting away from that now - and the Fortiflora is taking it's place. Better that than the tuna.

 

[feralvr]

Oh Lauren! Poor babies! I'm SO lucky - only had one puking incident (and it wasn't even due to the raw! :lol3: ). But at least I've gotten the reminder, loud and clear - introduce new proteins slowly. When I was still mixing their food with canned, I didn't have to really think about that. But now that they're all raw.... guess I'd better.
to you and for the kitties! I'm guessing they feel fine now, and will have a normal meal later. :nod: :cross:
I do have disappointing news for you. We're not heading out to the shop today. Gary's making stew, and we'll be freezing it tomorrow... so I have to work down more raw for the kitties to have room for new food for them. I'd better find a freezer, fast. :lol3:

AWWWW no raw shopping today - so sad :shame: because it is SO much fun for me too - buying raw meat for my kitties :heart3: YES - get that freezer - FAST :happy3:

 

[feralvr]

GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dinner was a slam-dunk NV Rabbit mixed with a teeny bit of Wellness Core - Pipsqueak's and Perla's had Fortiflora sprinkled on...... THEN - I had the back-up of the Fancy Feast Salmon for Perla so she would finish her meal :anon:..... it worked. I know - the rincess: has my number - but since we just started this raw about 12 days ago, I am still giving in to her demands :rofl:. No puking tonight. And so far so good with Pipsqueak - who puked up his dry food at lunch. I broke down as I posted earlier and gave him the dry at lunch because that is all he would eat and I wanted him to eat. So it might not have been the venison this morning - he is still recovering from that "Perla virus".... BUT this is good news that everyone had a nice fulfilling meal and that makes momma so happy inside :heart3: We had playtime and now everyone is napping and relaxing

Late night snack will be less than the 1/16 cup dry with a tiny bit of Lamb, just before bed. Breakfast menu - :scratch: Not sure. I have Lamb, Chicken and Venison () in the fridge thawing for the morning. I do have dogs that eat the stuff too

I looked over the spreadsheet today - :bigthumb: I might just order some Nature's Menu.... they don't use any bone meal - only calcium carbonate. That way I won't worry so much about too much bone content. :nod: I have to check out the website. :nod: I also have a bag of Nature's Logic Chicken in the freezer. They don't use bone meal either - it has whole eggs and egg shell meal. So that would be good to use in rotation as well. I do like the Nature's Logic - but it is not HPP .....

 

[ldg]

Neither is the Nature's Menu. Sticking to HPP REALLY limits the options. :nod:

But on a great dinner! I'm so glad Pip's OK. You're probably right - he threw up the metro, and the bitter taste kept it going. Hopefully it was just the one time thing! :cross:

 

[auntie crazy]

I understand why many of you want to start with HPP raw foods first, but keep in mind that kibble has the potential to contain as much - if not more - bacteria than any raw food. In addition, by virtue of it's composition, it slows down digestion and allows for a longer proliferation time, increasing the chance of illness.

Now - I believe cats can handle that, easily. What I'm saying is... don't limit yourselves to HPP raw foods without being aware that you're bringing in bacteria through other, not-so-healthy, foods.

Follow me?

AC

 

[feralvr]

I understand why many of you want to start with HPP raw foods first, but keep in mind that kibble has the potential to contain as much - if not more - bacteria than any raw food. In addition, by virtue of it's composition, it slows down digestion and allows for a longer proliferation time, increasing the chance of illness.

Now - I believe cats can handle that, easily. What I'm saying is... don't limit yourselves to HPP raw foods without being aware that you're bringing in bacteria through other, not-so-healthy, foods.

Follow me?
AC

Yes, I do get that now that you mention this. :scratch: Funny, isn't is, how I never before questioned the production, management and handling of the canned foods or dry foods that I have fed over the years. All of the sudden it is SO important to me now - what I am feeding my cats :nod: I guess when you hear the word's "raw" you immediately think ..... bacteria, e-coli, salmonella..... BUT in all reality - processed cat food can possibly contain environmental toxins and other coliform bacteria types..... I just honestly never thought about it before - I just "trust" that cat food manufacturers that the foods are in fact, safe. I think with raw - and new to commercially made raw - I are concerned with the "handling" of the raw meat before it was packaged because the risk seems higher for potential contamination than the other. :dk: Probably not true because the manufacturing and processing of any pet food, raw or not has the potential to be mishandled.

 

[ldg]

Well, the other thing that can help you on the comfort level, Lauren, is that you were feeding them Bravo as treats - and everyone was fine. :nod: So really, your kitties have been eating raw from that perspective for some time. :nod:

What you may want to think about doing, if you worry, is just feed Pip the HPP foods. That's what I'm doing with Laz right now. And even with him - I gave him the Vital Essences chicken at dinner as I was out of the NV chicken. :nod:

 

[carolina]

I understand why many of you want to start with HPP raw foods first, but keep in mind that kibble has the potential to contain as much - if not more - bacteria than any raw food. In addition, by virtue of it's composition, it slows down digestion and allows for a longer proliferation time, increasing the chance of illness.

Now - I believe cats can handle that, easily. What I'm saying is... don't limit yourselves to HPP raw foods without being aware that you're bringing in bacteria through other, not-so-healthy, foods.

Follow me?

AC

Yes, I do get that now that you mention this. :scratch: Funny, isn't is, how I never before questioned the production, management and handling of the canned foods or dry foods that I have fed over the years. All of the sudden it is SO important to me now - what I am feeding my cats :nod: I guess when you hear the word's "raw" you immediately think ..... bacteria, e-coli, salmonella..... BUT in all reality - processed cat food can possibly contain environmental toxins and other coliform bacteria types..... I just honestly never thought about it before - I just "trust" that cat food manufacturers that the foods are in fact, safe. I think with raw - and new to commercially made raw - I are concerned with the "handling" of the raw meat before it was packaged because the risk seems higher for potential contamination than the other. :dk: Probably not true because the manufacturing and processing of any pet food, raw or not has the potential to be mishandled.

Well, the other thing that can help you on the comfort level, Lauren, is that you were feeding them Bravo as treats - and everyone was fine. :nod: So really, your kitties have been eating raw from that perspective for some time. :nod:
What you may want to think about doing, if you worry, is just feed Pip the HPP foods. That's what I'm doing with Laz right now. And even with him - I gave him the Vital Essences chicken at dinner as I was out of the NV chicken. :nod:

Hello my Dearest Friends.... OMG - can I say I MISSED you I thing I got a little...... just "a tad" attached to you all :grphug:

This is the third time I am replying to this....... the other two my dearest Tapatalk deleted
I am replying to this before anything else on the threads, as I SO related it..... If there was one person freaked out about potential issues, parasites, etc..... was me, because of Bugsy..... I mean, Bugsy is Murphy's law impersonated..... if anything can go wrong with him, it will..... not only his immune-system is awful, but his digestive system is highly compromised as well - completely out of balance to say the least.
I couldn't even think of the possibility of what could happen if Bugsy got Salmonella....
Because of that, I started Bugsy on HHP...... NV.... Veeeeery slowly (Not by Laurie's definition of slowly :lol3 - he started with one teaspoon. And he did well. Next day, 2 tsp...... then 3, 4...... up to 100% raw!
He did wonderful...... But then I took a risk - with a wonderful food called Rad Cat......... and guess what? Bugsy did even BETTER
Rad Cat is by no means HHP. But his system was strong by then - his diarrhea was gone, and he was taking raw by strides - I noticed he was doing well - he was not acting like an immune compromised cat anylonger..... he was acting like a normal cat..... His poop was not that of a cat with IBD - it was of a normal cat..... so why wouldn't his system deal with another food just like any other cat? That was my thought process.....
And here is the key for me:
As long as I go slow - as Long as I introduce proteins and new brands slowly, Bugsy has been doing GREAT so far.
So...... HHP is not stopping me.......
To me, the first step was to make sure he digested raw properly..... and that I did with HHP...... it was great also to build MY confidence level...... But after that.... after seeing that his system was strong......... oh..... the "raw skies are the limit"
The only thing that I do with Bugsy is, I intro meats and brands slowly and measure his reaction to it - with him, by his poop - start with 25% for a day..... wait for the poop..... move to 50% on the next day..... wait for the poop..... move to 75% on the next day..... so on and so forth. :nod:

so, basically, 1- will they eat? Yes? GREAT! :bigthumb: 2- Do they do well on it? Yes? GREAT! :bigthumb: and 3- does momma like it? To me - this fits: Ingredients: no fruits and veggies is high on my list now :nod:; does it come from a good, reliable company, with no history of recall? Yes, great - let's give it a go :nod:
If it doesn't work out........ we go back to the basics - my basics right now is Rad Cat...... soon to move slowly into Frankerprey :nod:

 

[feralvr]

Well, the other thing that can help you on the comfort level, Lauren, is that you were feeding them Bravo as treats - and everyone was fine. :nod: So really, your kitties have been eating raw from that perspective for some time. :nod:
What you may want to think about doing, if you worry, is just feed Pip the HPP foods. That's what I'm doing with Laz right now. And even with him - I gave him the Vital Essences chicken at dinner as I was out of the NV chicken. :nod:

Yes, that is right, at least for the four boys - they were eating tidbits of the raw Bravo meat for months. Actually - they LOVE that brand. Might consider adding that in rotation as well. I am not as worried about Pipsqueak eating all HPP foods - but would prefer to at least for him. I do think he could manage a rotation though along with the other's. I totally understand you wanting to only use the HPP products for Lazlo's benefit. Absolutely get that. :nod:

 

[feralvr]

Hello my Dearest Friends.... OMG - can I say I MISSED you I thing I got a little...... just "a tad" attached to you all :grphug:
This is the third time I am replying to this....... the other two my dearest Tapatalk deleted
I am replying to this before anything else on the threads, as I SO related it..... If there was one person freaked out about potential issues, parasites, etc..... was me, because of Bugsy..... I mean, Bugsy is Murphy's law impersonated..... if anything can go wrong with him, it will..... not only his immune-system is awful, but his digestive system is highly compromised as well - completely out of balance to say the least.
I couldn't even think of the possibility of what could happen if Bugsy got Salmonella....
Because of that, I started Bugsy on HHP...... NV.... Veeeeery slowly (Not by Laurie's definition of slowly :lol3 - he started with one teaspoon. And he did well. Next day, 2 tsp...... then 3, 4...... up to 100% raw!
He did wonderful...... But then I took a risk - with a wonderful food called Rad Cat......... and guess what? Bugsy did even BETTER
Rad Cat is by no means HHP. But his system was strong by then - his diarrhea was gone, and he was taking raw by strides - I noticed he was doing well - he was not acting like an immune compromised cat anylonger..... he was acting like a normal cat..... His poop was not that of a cat with IBD - it was of a normal cat..... so why wouldn't his system deal with another food just like any other cat? That was my thought process.....
And here is the key for me:
As long as I go slow - as Long as I introduce proteins and new brands slowly, Bugsy has been doing GREAT so far.
So...... HHP is not stopping me.......
To me, the first step was to make sure he digested raw properly..... and that I did with HHP...... it was great also to build MY confidence level...... But after that.... after seeing that his system was strong......... oh..... the "raw skies are the limit"
The only thing that I do with Bugsy is, I intro meats and brands slowly and measure his reaction to it - with him, by his poop - start with 25% for a day..... wait for the poop..... move to 50% on the next day..... wait for the poop..... move to 75% on the next day..... so on and so forth. :nod:
so, basically, 1- will they eat? Yes? GREAT! :bigthumb: 2- Do they do well on it? Yes? GREAT! :bigthumb: and 3- does momma like it? To me - this fits: Ingredients: no fruits and veggies is high on my list now :nod:; does it come from a good, reliable company, with no history of recall? Yes, great - let's give it a go :nod:
If it doesn't work out........ we go back to the basics - my basics right now is Rad Cat...... soon to move slowly into Frankerprey :nod:

AWWWW I know how you feel about getting attached :grphug: :heart3:

I also feel that using the HPP products in the beginning is very, very important to me ... at least I feel it is a bit safer to start with. YES - I absolutely want to try other brands and the rotation is very important to me. Since I will not be going homemade raw or the Frankenprey route right now - commercially made raw is right for me and my kitties at the moment. Maybe down the road - I will start to incorporate some homemade or frankenprey. It is just too soon for me and we are still figuring this all out - both me and my kitties - BUT it is SO very, very rewarding. I just hope I am feeding them enough :dk:..... Is 4 ounces of raw a day enough for the kitties.... plus I do add a teeny bit of grain-free wet at each meal.....

Losing posts...... Ooooooo :stomp: I HATE that.... and almost have a crying fit :sobbing: when I lose a WHOLE post from the stupid computer crashing or freezing up... Hopefully your 'puter will cooperate for you today so you can stay connected to us :heart3: Have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[auntie crazy]

Generally-speaking, Lauren, raw-fed cats should be eating about 3% of their body weight in ounces. I have a handy calculator that whips out those numbers if you want to post their respective weights (and if, in your opinion, they're under- or over-weight).

AC

 

[feralvr]

BREAKFAST couldn't have gone better today!!!! No problems what-so-ever with vomiting AND I even added a teeny bit of Venison with the Lamb and no tummy problems!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really think that this virus - you know Pipsqueak was at the vet last Saturday - fever - eyes - diarrhea.... I just think Perkins got a touch of it too because he has had some diarrhea as well overnight and his eyes seem a bit runny. AND Perla puked up her dry nighttime snack last night right after eating. So I know it is not the raw - I am still dealing with the lingering's of this viral infection I am not worried though and staying positive that soon we will all be healthy and this will be behind us.

ANYHOO.... all went well this morning. Except for Pipsqueak - he did eat and seemed hungry - but did not eat too much. I will be trying to offer him some more food at lunchtime. I just think he is still recovering too. Walden and Wendall had all venison this morning. The cats really seem to love that protein. Today I will pick up the S&C Duck. I opened my bag of Nature's Logic Chicken and have some thawing in the fridge. Will incorporate that into their rotation plan tomorrow morning. Hope they like that one too :cross:

This is just amazing the changes I am seeing in Perla though. First off, her eye is slowly getting better - but my goodness - it is taking forever. The watering has slowed WAY down - but the redness/crusty eye lid is still slightly there too. Perla has never been a lap cat - not by any stretch. The last three nights now - she has come to lay by me on the couch :heart3: :heart2: My heart just melts. I SO love having her near me like that AND>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you ready - this morning when I awoke - Wendall was laying on one side of the bed and Perla on the other side of the bed. Not anywhere near each other but they were on the bed at the same time TRIPLE My eyes almost popped out of my head :shocker: HUGE behavioral changes for me at my place since feeding raw - It really has made this momma THE happiest momma on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Generally-speaking, Lauren, raw-fed cats should be eating about 3% of their body weight in ounces. I have a handy calculator that whips out those numbers if you want to post their respective weights (and if, in your opinion, they're under- or over-weight).

AC

Oh thank you, I would appreciate that Auntie. I will go weigh them all one by one and be right back :dash:

I am back :lol3: OMG they all have gained a few ounces since I last weighed them one month ago. I will give you the weights and my comment's on their condition.

1. Pipsqueak - 11.8 lbs. - he has a hanging belly and very loose skin, always had the loose skin - but when you look down on him from above - you can see the indentation of the waist. But I think he is slightly overweight.

2. Perla - 12.1 lbs. I think she is just perfect - a bit of a belly and in good flesh - vet says she could lose a pound :dk:

3. Perkins - 14 lbs. :shocker: He used to weigh 12.8 lbs. He could lose a little, I guess

4. Presley - 13.2 lbs. - :anon: He used to weigh 11.8 lbs. He could lose a little too, I guess :lol3: But I think he looks good..... :dk:

5. Wendall - 13.2 lbs. (same as Presley - but a much smaller cat) Wendall is very overweight and should weigh maybe 11 pounds ...... and he is always around begging for food people, dog, cat whatever he can. He was starved before.

6. Walden - 13.9 lbs. OMG he used to weigh about 12 pounds. He is getting very fat and even Larry commented on him.

OH DEAR - my cats are mostly overweight.... :anon:.....

 

[auntie crazy]

Where's the "LOVE THIS!" button?

 

[feralvr]

Where's the "LOVE THIS!" button? :bigthumb:

:lol3: WE DO NEED one of those..... I am sure Laurie or Carolina have one of those buttons in their neat and handy new "smiley" links........ Come on, girls, let us have the LOVE THIS smiley..... :wait:


p.s. Auntie - Pipsqueak is a bit overweight too :anon: He is my smallest kitty and really should be about 10 pounds or under..... he has a fat chest too. But he is sooooo adorable :heart3: Can't wait to see your calculations on how much I should be feeding them and

 

[auntie crazy]

This post....

Where's the "LOVE THIS!" button?

...was totally meant for this post!....

BREAKFAST couldn't have gone better today!!!! No problems what-so-ever with vomiting AND I even added a teeny bit of Venison with the Lamb and no tummy problems!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really think that this virus - you know Pipsqueak was at the vet last Saturday - fever - eyes - diarrhea.... I just think Perkins got a touch of it too because he has had some diarrhea as well overnight and his eyes seem a bit runny. AND Perla puked up her dry nighttime snack last night right after eating. So I know it is not the raw - I am still dealing with the lingering's of this viral infection

I am not worried though and staying positive that soon we will all be healthy and this will be behind us.

ANYHOO.... all went well this morning. Except for Pipsqueak - he did eat and seemed hungry - but did not eat too much. I will be trying to offer him some more food at lunchtime. I just think he is still recovering too. Walden and Wendall had all venison this morning. The cats really seem to love that protein. Today I will pick up the S&C Duck. I opened my bag of Nature's Logic Chicken and have some thawing in the fridge. Will incorporate that into their rotation plan tomorrow morning. Hope they like that one too

This is just amazing the changes I am seeing in Perla though. First off, her eye is slowly getting better - but my goodness - it is taking forever. The watering has slowed WAY down - but the redness/crusty eye lid is still slightly there too. Perla has never been a lap cat - not by any stretch. The last three nights now - she has come to lay by me on the couch

My heart just melts. I SO love having her near me like that AND>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are you ready - this morning when I awoke - Wendall was laying on one side of the bed and Perla on the other side of the bed. Not anywhere near each other but they were on the bed at the same time TRIPLE

My eyes almost popped out of my head

HUGE behavioral changes for me at my place since feeding raw - It really has made this momma THE happiest momma on the planet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guess I need to use the "quote" function a little more often!!!! 

*************************************

Lauren, here's what I come up with for you (this is the calculator I used) for each cat at 3% (I did a little rounding of numbers):

1. Pipsqueak (rounded his weight up to 12 lbs) = 5.75 ounces of raw food per day.
2. Perla (rounded her weight down to 12 lbs) = 5.75 ounces of raw food per day.
3. Perkins (14 lbs) = 6.75 ounces of raw food per day.
4. Presley (rounded his weight down to 13 lbs) = 6.25 ounces of raw food per day.
5. Wendall (rounded his weight down to 13 lbs) = 6.25 ounces of raw food per day.
6. Walden (rounded his weight up to 14 lbs) = 6.75 ounces of raw food per day.

For a total daily fed of 2 pounds and 5.5 ounces of raw food a day.

Now, assuming you're correct and most, if not all, your kitties could stand to lose some weight, they'd be fed as follows at 2% (there's some rounding in here, too):

1. Pipsqueak (12 lbs) = 3.85 ounces of raw food per day.
2. Perla (12 lbs) = 3.85 ounces of raw food per day.
3. Perkins (14 lbs) = 4.50 ounces of raw food per day.
4. Presley (13 lbs) = 4.25 ounces of raw food per day.
5. Wendall (13 lbs) = 4.25 ounces of raw food per day.
6. Walden (14 lbs) = 4.50 ounces of raw food per day.

For a total daily fed of ~1 pound and 9 ounces of raw food a day.

*************************************

I would recommend, however, you either work with your vet to ascertain your kitties' best weights, or have someone you trust with some knowledge of body condition take a look at your cats to see if they really are overweight before you start feeding them at the 2% level. Since you're just starting, I like to err on the side of a little more food than they need rather than a little less than they need.

You should be able to tell from the scale if they're gaining or losing weight within two or three weeks of feeding a measured amount, and you can adjust accordingly from there.

Is that helpful?

AC

 

[feralvr]

Quick update for dinner then I have to :dash: and get off the computer. Larry is home from being out-of-town and I really should spend some time talking with him and not being on TCS.....


SO tonight's dinner was SUPER DUPER!!!!!!!!!! Kid's all had rabbit, their favorite topped off with Weruva's Cat's in the Kitchen pouches - the pumpkin chicken grain-free. I like to use these because they have a lot of liquid in them and mix very well with the raw. I just use on 3 oz. pouch for six cats and it is just a little bit on each. I also started "sqooshing" down the raw meat so they have to eat slower. Thanks, AC, it makes them work a bit harder to get at the meat. I just love the chewing too :rub: Makes me SO happy to see them eating this way now. OH....... :anon: I had to follow Perla around with her bowl again... then I said "OH FORGET IT, PERLA!! If you want it, come and get it but you don't have much time!!!! I won't wait ALLLLLL night for you, rincess: !!!!" So I went back where I feed the cats and did some cleaning and she came back and jumped on her spot. :lol3: She really has to make a dramatic entrance and be fashionably late, I guess ...


QUESTION please.......... Since Perla sometimes delays eating her plate of raw food - HOW long is it safe for me to "hold" her plate for her until she is ready to eat?? It usually isn't more than twenty minutes before she decides to come to the "raw" party - but I worry that her food sits there for a bit. Thanks, friends, and will try to log on later tonight. :cross: