A New "Raw"some Beginning... (yup - another one LOL)

[ldg]

Well, well, well, another fortiflora addiction! WHAT is with that stuff? :lol3: I have to agree - best to get them eating without it, and start over. You've already learned a lot about how and what they'll eat... and have a number of new ideas. :nod: "Re-setting" things worked before. Seems another reset is in order for those guys! Clearly Perkins and Presley LIKE the meat! So it's just a matter of figuring out how to get them to eat it on their own.

I hope you find they like fresh meat. It does help a lot to keep going if you know they like what you're trying to feed them! :lol3: I started with a tiny little sliver. Was able to move to small chunks right away - and for Shel, because he just swallowed those, I had to make long thin strips. Those he took the time to chew. :nod:

!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

I couldn't resist and did order another box of Fortiflora :anon: I just want to have it on hand for a back up to the back up's :lol3:. It works for Wilbur too and he has been not doing well lately in the eating department :sobbing:....

Good news: Walden and Wendall LOVE the Nature's Menu Turkey. I really believe that part of why those boys will eat anything is due to their starvation and abuse as kittens - they were only fed scraps anyway They are just willing to eat anything I put in front of them. But they DO seem to just love meat. They are my saving grace through all of this - if they were like the other four - I would seriously give this up and try again down the road.

The four P's. WELL - they have decided it is MUTINY OF THE RAW :sunk: - and have banned together in their fight against me and against the raw. I am even trying to get them to eat canned food again - :shocker: They all seem to be off their meals and not trusting their meals. ALSO - I refuse to give them the Fortiflora. This morning I fed canned Fromm Chicken - very simple, right ???!!! WRONG...... :stomp: WHERE IS THE FORTIFLORA, MOMMA!!!!! beg, beg, beg. I took all of their bowls away. Perla ran upstairs. The other three persisted and were hungry. SO I opened up a can of Wellness Beef/Chicken and they finally ate that without the Fortiflora. I have created very spoiled little monsters here and they are really driving me to the nut house :spin: :disturb:.......

When I went upstairs - Perla was waiting I rehydrated 1 1/2 ounce of S&C Lamb. She licked her plate clean. THANK goodness for S&C. I am forgoing raw at the moment because I am now freaking out that they are being picky about wet food too. It is too much of a worry and then having to deal with Wilbur possibly taking a turn for the worse.

I am feeding them all the bedtime meal of the rehydrated S&C. That seems to be working beautifully. I don't want to offer the NV right now because of the bones and I am a bit worried about that too as Walden and Wendall were getting constipated. Now that they are on Nature's Menu - their poops look better and they are more comfortable. I plan to start over with the four Pickies after a few more days of getting them eating well again for breakfast and dinner meals. Will offer the raw meat in the "raw morning circle party" that we have on the floor That works too for Perkins and Presley. But as soon as I put it on a plate :dash:........ they are truly going to make momma nutso. :wife: :slant:

I have not yet offered the fresh raw organic chicken breast I purchase at Costco yesterday. Will be trying that later :cross:

 

[ldg]

Yeah, if they're scared of what's in their bowls, it's time to reset the clock, so to speak. :nod: Seriously - if you're going insane, you just have to start fresh when it's comfortable for everyone. :nod: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I never know when to let them go hungry. Spooky didn't eat dinner... and now that we're on three meals a day, that means her last meal was around 8:30am. She didn't eat at 5:30pm... she'll get offered food at 10:30/11:00pm. :dk: At that point, she gets canned. :dk: I'm not going to go nuts doing this!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Perla will do that on many days like Spooky. For some reason, she just doesn't show up for the dinner meal :dk:... But she did that before raw began. She seems to just want two meals a day. I always have to try to get more into her in both of those meals.

It is quite comical how backed off of their plates they have become. I think what I need to do is not offer raw at every single meal when we start up again. I am thinking I might go back to four "small" meals a day - and making one during the day just plain raw meat..... no canned. That way they will learn that every meal will not contain raw. The bedtime meal is always the rehydrated S&C - so that has been working quite well. SO if I can get at least ONE raw meat meal during the day then I would be happy with that. I would just cut back on the amount they get with the two canned meals a day to start. Not sure - I am just tossing around some ideas here. I learned that if the raw meat is offered at every meal and they are already presuming that they will not like the meal - then I am fighting a losing battle here. Especially with Presley. He finally tonight went to his bowl - slowly - without me having to gently push him to it. He sniffed and realized there was no raw again and he ate his whole dinner tonight.

I did a little test with Presley yesterday for dinner. I pulled out the BIG GUNS and their absolute favorite - yep - Fancy Feast. I offered Presley a small amount of just the Fancy Feast - he cleaned his plate. Then I took his plate to add some more and slipped in such a teeny amount of Nature's Menu Turkey - smaller than pea size. Set the plate in front of him. He took one smell, then another and then sat down looking at me. I took the plate back and got another plate and added the Fancy Feast and offered it to him again. Nothing but the Fancy Feast. He sniffed again, and then dug in and finished the plate. This is what I have been dealing with. All four of the P's seems to do the same thing.

Today - I cut up small pieces of the fresh organic chicken breast. Of course, Walden and Wendall LOVED the fresh meat. It was wonderful to see them chewing and chewing. I offered it to Perkins - sniffed and sniffed but no licking. Presley same thing. Perla looked at the meat and actually backed up like I was offering her something so God awful and gave me a disgusted look . Pipsqueak - forget it - he just kept turning his head away from the meat. Then I cooked the meat a little bit - and they ate some of the cooked chicken breast. SO I might have to sear the meat first just to get them started eating it. I would really like them to start enjoying the fresh meat a few times a week for their teeth. I would offer it at a special time of the day - separate from other meals. I think that is the trick - I have to offer the raw meats separate from their regular meals. AND offer the raw in another place other than the spots where they eat regular meals.

Sorry so long..... I am just thinking this through in here in my post :lol3:.... I really want to keep trying with these four fussies.

 

[carolina]

Man..... they made a pact.... I am telling you - the 5 PIA's (Lucky is included) made a pact to drive us insane. This is it. I figured all out

 

[ldg]

Hope things went well this morning!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Meal time went fairly well. Perla for some reason didn't want breakfast today .... We had to run out this morning so I will try to offer her something soon. The four P's just had canned food. I really won't report on them anymore until I decide to try again with them. It has taken way too much time to get these four pickies to eat and now I am having trouble getting them back on track with even canned food. I will be offering them a raw "treat" in the middle of the day and will see how that goes. I will put Fortiflora on the raw treat to try to get them to eat the meat. I realized I have used way too much fortiflora. I have gone through two whole boxes in 30 days :shocker:...... Not good. That is almost two packets a day - of course that includes Wilbur too.

Wendall and Walden had 50% NM Lamb and 50% NM Turkey They are doing great on the raw and just loving their meals .


HAPPY EATING KITTIES - ONE AND ALL :heart3: :rub: :cross:

 

[feralvr]

THUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PIPSQUEAK just ate one whole NV organic chicken by hand AND wouldn't you know - that is the ONE brand I want to stop feeding because of the sodium Montmorillonite Clay... and the bone shards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW what do I do :dk: I have a bag to finish up that is in the freezer and I just took out some for the lunchtime "treat" and it seems that the cat's will eat the NV chicken from my hand. Would it be alright to offer them one medallion a day ? Presley also gobbles down the NV org. chicken too as does Perkins. They all just eat it from my hand with nothing to flavor the meat. I tried this with the Nature's Menu Turkey - it was a no go with them. I wonder if it would be alright to keep offering the NV Chicken just once a day to get them back on some raw meat Any thoughts?

This JUST happened right now - Pipsqueak eating the meat like that BUT he won't eat anything else, only the NV Chicken - but that is a start right??!!

 

[feralvr]

WOOHOO!!! Just read in the Commercial raw thread that the Montmorillonite Clay... in Nature's Variety IS CALCUIM not sodium!!! CORRECT ??!!!!! I can safely go ahead with Nature's Variety then!!!! Just pick out the bone shards

 

[ldg]

THAT IS CORRECT! CALCIUM Montmorillonite Clay, NOT sodium!



So odd about our girls! Though Spooky has eaten at both meals today. :cross: for Perla!!!!

 

[feralvr]

Walden was at the vet yesterday . He was very, very uncomfortable yesterday about noon - and was in and out of the box straining to poop. He has been constipated on and off since starting raw. I wanted an xray. He was full of bones !!!!!! Dr. Mark is not worried and said these will pass BUT no more bone-in commercial raw food for him right now. Both Walden and Wendall have been eating up the Nature's Variety chicken and lamb that I have in the freezer. IF I feed that to anyone from now on - I will be picking through each and every medallion to de-bone..... But Walden will not be getting any bone-in raw meat right now. He loves the Nature's Menu - so that is all he will get right now. He is better today on the Miralax and pumpkin. Pooped comfortably this morning

NOW - good news is that Pipsqueak, Perkins and Presley ALL come around at about noon each day for a "de-boned" :lol3: NVorg. Chicken medallion. YEP Pipsqueak IS loving it and will eat it directly from my hand (which is good by hand - because I can feel if there are any bone shards) . Mealtime for the four P's has been going beautifully now that they are only eating canned food again with no raw mixed in. Presley is finally trusting his meals again, thank goodness. This just has been a freakin' joke :lol3: with these four PIA's. SO for right now - they are getting a little raw for lunch upstairs and of course, they get their rehydrated S&C at bedtime. Not too bad IMO. I just don't know when I will feel comfortable adding the meat into their wet meals again. I will start over and try again, but when ..... not sure

p.s. OH I did get Pipsqueak to eat a teeny, tiny piece of Nature's Menu Turkey from my hand today too BOY OH BOY - this IS the slowest process though - many steps forward and then many steps backwards and sometimes you get stuck in the backwards for a bit. OH WELL - so what....... life has been much easier for me lately

 

[ldg]

Oh poor Walden! :rub: I'm so glad he's already feeling better!

And on - well - the 3Ps wanting their NV organic chicken medallion at noon! :bigthumb:

And thank GOODNESS the kitties like their meals again. And if I understand it right, it seems that all but Perla are eating about 50% raw, so that in and of itself is great for them - and in such a way that it's not completely driving you insane.

It's a process, that's for sure. :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

Thanks, Laurie I AM a very happy momma this morning!! Walden and Wendall had NM Lamb for breakfast. The four P's had Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken. At about ten o'clock the four P's were in the kitchen (:anon: on the counter) looking for that "special" treat!!! YEP - looking for raw. SO I got out some NV Organic Chicken - deboned it - and served it up. Pipsqueak had a whole medallion, Presley had a whole medallion, and Perkins had a whole medallion :shocker:!! Perla just wanted the WL rehydrated - so I gave in and let her had some of that. THEN I decided to try the fresh organic chicken breast - rolled the pieces in WL. Perkins (who has been rejecting the fresh meat) ate about four pieces, chewed and chewed, and was looking and begging for more. Presley and Pipsqueak took a few lick!! Perla in her usual style gave me that God awful look of disgust and :dash: off, turned and gave me another one for the road .....

I am just so happy how this is working out right now. The cat's are now thinking that the raw IS a treat!!! It is going very well for me this way instead of making their meals about the raw - I am making the raw seem like a treat in the middle of the day!!!!! MOMMA IS SNEAKY :eyebrows:

 

[ldg]

I LOVE IT! Just when you decide to give up (well - you know what I mean: temporarily, just start over) - they decide they LOVE their TREAT!

YES! MOMMA IS SNEAKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3:

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

Very good news in "sneaking" the raw into them as treats! 

Ok, but what with all the issues with bones?  I already decided I was going to use either NM or Rad Cat because they don't use bones, but I had hoped that eventually I might be able to introduce some bones into their diet.  Maybe the bone meal is just as good?  But when if I ever get to the point where I want to toss them a chicken wing or something.  If they have never had any raw with actual bones in it, do you think that might cause an issue? 

Oh, and I think Carolina said the WL dehydrated chicken isn't actually raw afterall.  I asked that question once before and was told it was.  Does anyone actually know?

  I might have to contact the company if no one has already! 

Anyway, great news on the THREE P's.  Maybe at some point Perla will see what she's missing

 

[ldg]

I'm 99% sure the WL chicken is dehyrated boiled chicken. :nod: When you rehydrate it, it LOOKS like boiled chicken, not raw chicken. :dk:

Bones. Cats need bones! But the bones in commercial raw are not necessarily the bones they need - or the right quantity. In the NV, the formula is 15% bone. Frankenprey is 80% muscle meat, 8-10% bone, and 3-5% liver, and 3-5% other "secreting organ." (Not heart, gizzard or lung - these are muscle organs, so count as muscle. They're important to include in rotation, but aren't the 3-5% "other secreting organ." ).

Now - cats in the wild pick and choose what they're going to eat. They might not eat the head of a mouse or rabbit. That's a lot of bone. And if scavenging on a dead cow, they'll maybe eat muscle or organ - but they're not going to tackle a leg bone, you know? And commercial raw companies are still in it to make money... so if they use more bone, they have to use less meat.

And the issue with bone meal is... it's usually from old cows. A lot of "structural" bones - and those don't necessarily have the ratios of calcium and phosphorous a cat needs anyway, and are HIGHLY likely to be difficult for a cat to digest. :dk:

So ultimately, with frankenprey, at least you're offering cats bones they MIGHT eat in the wild. Small bird bones, or rabbit bones.

But with the ground mixes and NV stuff.... there are plenty of small, round bones, and it's easy to pick out the larger, sharper ones. :nod:

 

[feralvr]

YES- Sally..... Laurie said it all . I am still using the Nature's Variety chicken and just pick out the larger sharp bones now. The ca'ts are just not digesting them as readily and easily YET. In time, their systems will become much more efficient in digesting bones. I do think NV has too many bones in their ready made meats - but now my cats are liking the chicken so I can't give that up Frankenstein Prey :lol3: IS much more natural for the cat's to eat and digest because that is what they would instinctively catch and eat in the wild. The bones would not be those large, sharp ground up pieces of bone in the commercially ground raw products. It is fine to use them - just don't serve the medallion without going through it with your fingers and picking out the large pieces.

Oh - I don't think the WL is raw. But Perla just loves it and I do give that to her as a snack mid-day. I want her to get used to the "snack" time and hopefully she will be brave enough to try some of the raw "treats" soon. She is the most timid cat I have and will back off totally if the other pushy boys come around and get nosey. They are a real PIA when I am trying to give Perla special momma time with treats.... the boys just ruin everything :wife: :lol3:

 

[feralvr]

I LOVE IT! Just when you decide to give up (well - you know what I mean: temporarily, just start over) - they decide they LOVE their TREAT!
YES! MOMMA IS SNEAKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol3: :lol3:

RIGHT I am certainly figuring out ways to outsmart them

 

[feralvr]

Perkins has some diarrhea tonight. Could the fresh chicken cause this? He did probably eat about 1 ounce of it at lunchtime... First time eating it too.

Dinner went very well - as expected. The two W's had NM Turkey. The four P's had Tiki Cat Chicken and Egg. They LOVED it. I am really getting them on some new canned food - chicken shredded so I can begin mixing in the NV chicken again :cross: OR some fresh chicken. SOON I am thinking of trying that again. I had better not rush it though. So far this plan is working for us and they are getting 50% raw :happy3: :lovegrin:

 

[carolina]

Lauren - you are making progress.... seems that from 4 PIA's you are going down to 3.... or maybe 2.... now that Pips is eating NV from your hand
Weird that Perkins had diarrhea..... is it diarrhea diarrhea, or just soft poop?
He shouldn't have it..... Especially since he has been eating chicken before.... hasn't he? Or he never ate a full meal of raw chicken?
Hope he gets better soon...... and I LOVE IT that he loves the chicken!!!