2 Litters.

[Kerskitty16]

I have 2 females. One gave birth 3 weeks 2 days ago. She was with her mother for 2 months before we got her.

The second gave birth early this morning. She was 3 or 4 weeks when we got her about a month later (begining if October) and was virtually raised by the first. It was fun watching her teach hunting lessons.

Now my problem. Mother 2 won't lay long for her 5 newborns to eat. She will lick them, they have eaten from her, all 5 seem very active (even more so then the first litter). Mother 1 is being a terrific mother to her litter and seems to want to help care for the new ones as well. I have seen her lick litter 2 and seen Mother 2 lick and allow litter 1 to nurse. I believe Mother 1 has let litter 2 nurse but I haven't seen that.

I didn't realize Mother 2 was to full term or I would have separated them before labor. I have now put Mother 2 in a large dog crate with a small litter box, food, water and a warming pad to lay on with the babies.

I hadn't seen signs of stress or anxiety from either mother before locking her up but even though I showed Mother 1 that all her litter was still with her and picked litter 2 up as a group with the cloth they had been on all day both mother's are now showing signs of anxiety.

Mother 2 was kept away from first group for 1 week after delivery but has been free to spend time with them since.

How should I proceed? I have reminders in my calendar to fix them but first I have to help these new babies survive.

As a side note what should I offer to litter 1 as solids and when? Today mamas got wet food, scrambled eggs with canned fish (people food prepared just for them no salt or pepper) and they have free access to dry food and water.

 

[StefanZ]

Its quite common friendly mommas do cooperate. Related or not. So this is nothing bad! Do observe of course, so you are sure nobody gets off side. Good if you take the weights of the kittens, so you notice everyone is gaining minimum 6 gram a day. A healthy kitten gains typically 10+ grams a day...

 

[Kerskitty16]

Should I worry about Mother 1 trying to care for all the kittens and over stressing her body? Should I worry about litter 2 getting mature milk instead of colostrum? I will weigh the kittens in the morning.

 

[StefanZ]

They get the colostrum early day 1, after it its more or less normal milk. Yeah, it may be a problem though if one momma gets the leion part of the nursing... Much pressure and strain on her body. Weighting of the kittens helps much to know if everyone gets enough.

 

[StefanZ]

If momma 1 gives extra much nursing, she must also have extra much nutrients. Your basic nutrition is good, be sure she get fats too (raw egg yolk is good) and extra calcium. There are commercial calcium additions, but you can also use simply egg shells crushed into fine powder, and sprinkle some on her food, alike salt. Goats milk, plain full fat yoghurt, some mild cheese are too good natural sources.

 

[Sarthur2]

I would allow the 2 moms to be together. Their anxiety over being separated is not worth it. Many bonded cats will co-parent and help each other out. It happens in the wild all the time.

Since the kittens were just born, it may take this new mom a couple of days to settle in. Having the other mom to help lead by example will help her to learn the ropes.

As Stefan said, as long as the newborns gain weight, it does not matter which mom nurses them.

Please let us know how this goes!

 

[Kerskitty16]

They all survived the night. Weights ranging from 118 grams to 134. Unfortunately they are all black (some facial markings) and Mother 2 (Quickshadow) isn't my biggest fan right now. I'm going to just leave the 12 all together since the older kittens can't get to the younger and stop worrying as long as the range grows appropriately each morning.

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, see how this goes.

 

[Kerskitty16]

I've spent the morning with them and put litter 2 with her when she was snuggling with litter 1. She let them eat until they all "fell off" sleeping. I transferred them back to the nursery box (litter 1 is starting to play rough). They were ribs and squishy before. After they felt like water balloons. Not give to the skin at all.

At least one good meal and there is a warming pad under the nursery box so they will be warm.

 

[Sarthur2]

Continue to supervise the older kittens with the newborns as they will be rough with them and bully them off nipples. Sounds like you've got a good handle on it though!

 

[talkingpeanut]

Glad you are being so vigilant.

Are you able to keep your mama cats completely inside until they are fixed?

 

[Kerskitty16]

They are outdoor cats and Mother 1 started going stir crazy after the 1st week. They wouldn't be the first cats that we had fixed while telling the vet to not tell us if he was also performing an abortion. These pregnancies were welcomed and all the babies will be handled so I can get them all to the vet when they reach 2 lbs. We live on a farm and will provide food for all to keep them all near the house so they will keep rodents away from the house.

We tried simply taking in other strays. Gathering them from up to an hour from our home and they all would run off or become prey. These 2 are the first to stick around and are dark so they aren't easy prey. About 15 years ago we had 18 fixed cats. Time dictated that they all passed.

I know how much food for a dozen cats will cost and would rather pay that and have animals for my kids to grow with then have mice near my home.

 

[talkingpeanut]

So you're letting them out? When are they being fixed? This is very hard on the moms, to be in heat and mating.

 

[Kerskitty16]

Yes they are free to come and go from the time I wake up until I go to bed. I lock them back in the enclosed porch with the babies so that predators can't get inside with the babies.

I have never seen the Tom in my yard (he lives in the neighbors hay stacks).

No I cannot guarantee that they won't go I to heat or mate before they wean their litters but when if they don't come back at night I know their litter is ready to be on their own so mama can be fixed. Mother 1 watches me very closely and know when I call I am closing her access. She comes on a dead sprint when she hears her name, even in the afternoon.

If someone can tell me the signs of her going into heat I will watch and try to keep them locked up when that happens.

Also they Mother 1 will not have free access for a week to Mother 2 in for recovery and maternal bonding. Mother 1 and litter 1 will be taking supervised outdoor excursions to let the babies experience grass and play.

 

[talkingpeanut]

Cats can get pregnant even when they're not in heat. I would really highly recommend that you keep them in until the kittens are at least eating solids. They won't like it, but everyone will be safe.

When do you plan to let the kittens outside?

 

[Kerskitty16]

Well i guess I've learned my lesson. Don't ask for help in trying to care for baby farm cats. Don't expect just help in keeping newborns alive. Expect to be told your completely wrong for letting cats be cats and letting said babies be concieved. Next time I will just stumble through without help from people who know more about cat problems them I do.

They aren't your cats, they aren't your problem.

Thank you to the first responders that were helpful and not judgemental.

Also litter 1 has started the outdoor excursions much to Mother 1's dismay. They can run farther and she has to look out for danger.

 

[talkingpeanut]

This is a pro spay/neuter site, which is in the site terms.

I don't mean to judge you, but my intention was to advocate the best way to keep your cats safe. Kittens will die if they are allowed outside to roam at such a young age.

 

[Sarthur2]

K Kerskitty16

We are here to help support our members in any way we can with pregnant cats and kittens. Please feel free to ask anything at any time.

I would love to see pictures of your cats and kittens!

 

[Kerskitty16]

Then let me repeat myself. Kittens outside for brief excursions supervised by me and their mother.

Spaying will happen when she no longer needs her overies to make milk and the time away won't kill the babies. In the meantime you keep an outdoor cat fully trapped for 6-8 weeks and she will never let you "help" her again if she gets injured. That i know.

So if she choses not to avoid the Tom that is kinda her problem. Most cats survive sex everyday. She knows what going around him felt like last time. I'm not her preist.

So I will spay and neuter all 12 cats and pay full price because i live In a rural area and there are no participating vets in the voucher programs I can find online. So I knew when I didn't spay her months ago I was looking at over $2,000 to control the cat population around my house. I would love to have collected strays. I tried.

 

[Kerskitty16]

Also i forgot to say, talkingpeanut , I didn't feel judged until the 3rd time i was told that I have to keep my outdoor cats trapped and stressed to help them.

Also if kittens die when they are outside at less then a month old how is there an overpopulation of strays? I'm lucky litter 2 was born inside at all. Quickshadow didn't want to come in Tuesday night. I had to put down wet food to get her to come in.