When To Introduce New Kittens

I think I have to cut down the togetherness time for a while. They seem to run out of tolerance at around an hour or so. I'll have to watch and cut it down to 30 to 45 minutes

A few things are coming together right now that will probably slow things down: Barry is getting more confident - he walks around with his tail up (question-mark tail) and comes out of his room much more. He still darts into his room a lot, but he is coming back out quicker and he is playing more both with me and by himself. On the other side of the coin, Duncan definitely needs to be neutered - that's next Thursday. The fact that there is a second cat in the house distracts Duncan to no end. Anytime he is near the gates, he stares for Barry, meows and whines at the gate. Anytime there is a sound from downstairs, he runs and looks though the gates. Duncan definitely wants Barry to know he's the boss, problem is, Barry backs down but once cornered, he fights back and is the bigger meaner cat.

Now a fun question: Do cats get jealous? It seems that Duncan does not want to share his space or his people. They co-exist better until I pay any attention to Barry and then Duncan really ramps it up.

Cutting down the time is a really good idea.
Yes cats do get jealous, it could turn into them avoiding you or taking themselves off, it can also turn to aggression. Duncan is displaying some jealous tendencies, once they sort out the hierarchy & learn to tolerate each other that will stop & they'll more than likely play lovely together.

So last night I took down the gates and Duncan ran right into Barry's room - pretty much what he does every time. There were the usual sniffs, swats and stalking but nothing too bad. The hissing has gone down but not gone away. Every once in a while I had to give Duncan a nudge to break his stalking trance. After about an hour they had a bit of a dust up. I watched both cats while this went on. There was some pretty intense boxing, but for the most part, their ears stayed up and they didn't puff up either. Barry pulled his ears back for a little bit, but only a second or two. I tried to distract them with treats and eventually got them apart and ended playtime for the evening.

After that, I spent an hour downstairs with Barry. I pretty much sit and read and swish around a wand toy. He came out of his room fairly quickly, played with the wand toy, and then came in for pets, lots and lots of pets. He looked like he was going to jump up on the recliner with me, but not quite. He was pretty skittish last night and if everything wasn't just right he would run back to his room. He kept coming back though.

This morning, I was able to alternate giving both cats treats by hand and Barry didn't run away when I was standing up. He's figuring out that I'm friendly, finally.

This sounds like you're making progress as the hissing is getting less.
When they box are they making any noise, (hissing, growling, etc), if theyre not then it could just be a play fight. Play fighting can look very aggressive, my two play fight all the time & they stand on their back legs & box. Are they relatively easy to split up, if so they could just be play fighting. Keep an eye on it.
It's great that Barry is slowly coming out of his shell & seeing you as his human dad. Keep taking things slowly with him & no sudden movements & he'll come round.
You are doing everything right, well done.

flojo75 said:

This sounds like you're making progress as the hissing is getting less.

When they box are they making any noise, (hissing, growling, etc), if theyre not then it could just be a play fight. Play fighting can look very aggressive, my two play fight all the time & they stand on their back legs & box. Are they relatively easy to split up, if so they could just be play fighting. Keep an eye on it.

It's great that Barry is slowly coming out of his shell & seeing you as his human dad. Keep taking things slowly with him & no sudden movements & he'll come round.

You are doing everything right, well done.

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It's like CSI with these cats. I did a little research on fighting vs. playing, and that play is silent came up. They are not totally silent but there's not a lot of hissing, growling or meowing, so I don't know where this falls on the spectrum. They are relatively easy to get apart once I feel its gone far enough - I usually just walk towards them and they split up. I only had to use a squirt bottle once a couple of days ago. Duncan will also slink up to Barry on his back or front shoulder - haven't figured that one out yet, but it is not a very good offensive position.

Barry is not very vocal at all. He hisses some, but I don't think I have heard him growl. He's meowed just two or three times to me. Duncan is very vocal to Barry and us.

It could very well be that they are rough play fighting. Are their claws out or are the retracted when boxing, if they are retracted this is also a good sign that they are play fighting. When cats are really fighting it is very hard to seperate them as they are intent on hurting each other.
See how they go today & have a close look at them.

I cannot tell if the claws are out or not. I'll have to watch them tonight.

Barry is too shy right now to inspect for injuries but when I pet him I don't feel any scabs just really thick fur. Duncan has gotten two small scratches that I can tell.

Just try & see if they are clawing each other, if it's just boxing each other with claws retracted it's more than likely play.
The scratches were more likely from when they first met & really had a scrap.

Well u may not like wut I'm about to tell you but the 1st thing u need to do is get rid of the water bottle. Throw it away No More Squirting with water. It only makes them mean. Trust me I had a cat wen my daughter was 3 years old and it used to bite my husband n I in the middle of night -and also used to jump in window and growl and hiss and we would squirt it and it made it worse. Well I've learned things since I was 24 years old never to ever do tht again. I now have 2 kittens Kallie and keke9 months and 7 months keke was fereal and would bite but wen she would bite us in bed I would tell her NO and put her down on the floor. It worked it took a couple weeks but worked and everytime she would bite I would tell her No and quit playing with her. She now doesn't bite anymore she play bites. So it does work. -As for both cats u have already kept them separated so possibly put a gate up and let them see each other and wen there no more groweling put food down for them to eat together. They r gona play and wrestle thts wut they do just as long as other cat doesn't get bit or cry they r fine. So u can take this for wut it's worth- but I have 2 loving cats and my Keke doesn't bite anymore. Hope this helps[emoji]128570[/emoji]

chrisszy said:

Well u may not like wut I'm about to tell you but the 1st thing u need to do is get rid of the water bottle. Throw it away No More Squirting with water. It only makes them mean. Trust me I had a cat wen my daughter was 3 years old and it used to bite my husband n I in the middle of night -and also used to jump in window and growl and hiss and we would squirt it and it made it worse. Well I've learned things since I was 24 years old never to ever do tht again. I now have 2 kittens Kallie and keke9 months and 7 months keke was fereal and would bite but wen she would bite us in bed I would tell her NO and put her down on the floor. It worked it took a couple weeks but worked and everytime she would bite I would tell her No and quit playing with her. She now doesn't bite anymore she play bites. So it does work. -As for both cats u have already kept them separated so possibly put a gate up and let them see each other and wen there no more groweling put food down for them to eat together. They r gona play and wrestle thts wut they do just as long as other cat doesn't get bit or cry they r fine. So u can take this for wut it's worth- but I have 2 loving cats and my Keke doesn't bite anymore. Hope this helps[emoji]128570[/emoji]

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I'm not a big fan of the squirt bottle, but after six weeks of putting him on the floor, locked out of the room, etc. and six weeks of no sleep, we gave the squirt bottle a chance. It worked after two tries and we've only had to reinforce it twice since then.

flojo75 said:

Just try & see if they are clawing each other, if it's just boxing each other with claws retracted it's more than likely play.
The scratches were more likely from when they first met & really had a scrap.

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It's really hard to see if their claws are out - their paws seem closed.

Last night was a short night - I stayed in the city late.  Gave some individual attention to each cat and then went to bed.  Barry is letting his playful and friendly side show which is great.  He's "lounging" near me and comes over for treats and pets pretty readily.  Still skittish and runs away, but he comes back in a minute.

This morning was fine with just a little boxing and posturing, and then the lay down near each other.  Barry came for pets while Duncan was watching, so both cats got alternating pets and there were no fights afterwards.

Gonna be a cold cruddy weekend, so we might let them out together for a long while and see how they do around nighttime.  Or not.  Let's see what the cats decide.

It's good that Barry is being more receptive to you & playing more. He sounds like he is coming along nicely.
It sounds very much like they are play fighting to me. Yes the cats will dictate how long they can tolerate each other over the weekend but don't push it to much.
Let me know how it goes.

If you have an email address I can show you my two cats play fighting & you can compare.

Well ok then.

I think we are in the home stretch now.  On Saturday morning there was a quick fight and a little lost fur.  I separated them, and they didn't seem any worse for wear.  They spent the afternoon boxing and chasing, but no real fighting at all.

On Sunday morning there was a quick fight that I think put Duncan in his place and I think shows that most of this is just play with a slightly older and much more reserved cat getting tired of kitten antics.  I was petting Barry when Duncan came in and watched.  Barry loves affection, but just on his terms, so Barry was on his back getting chin face and ears rubs and purring like a motorboat.  I was spreading the affection around, but Duncan was too curious and jealous about Barry so he didn't get much.  After Duncan had all he could stand, he got behind Barry and wrapped his front legs around Barry's waist.  Barry swatted the sh!t out of Duncan and then hid.  Duncan spent the next 30 minutes trying to get to Barry (he can't figure out how Barry gets in) and I think Barry spent a lot of that time teasing Duncan.

After a while, Duncan give up, Barry comes out, and then it gets real quite.  Turns out they fell asleep in the two beds in Barry's room.  Since then Duncan still chases Barry, but Barry goes after Duncan too.  Now Barry just has to venture out of his room more - Duncan seems to guard the door.  Relatively quiet with the fighting too.

Odd thing:  Yesterday after they settled down, Duncan pooped in Barry's box - right in front of Barry and he was fine with that.  I think Barry has used that box again too.

The East Coast is going to get slammed with a storm tomorrow, so there will probably be another full day of supervised togetherness.

It really does sound like you are getting there. By what you describe is a lot of play & it's great that they are chasing each other no just the same cat chasing the other.
It's fantastic that they were both comfortable enough to sleep together. Great stuff, keep going.

Last night I did not separate the cats, and it seemed to work.

I spent extra time with them before bed and made sure that they were basically OK with each other. Extra treats and I had them both out in the family room downstairs taking treats from my hand when they were maybe 4 inches apart. They tolerated each other and I figured - what the heck.

So, after lights out, they chased either around for an hour and then went to sleep or at least got quiet. No fights! This morning Duncan was in our bed and Barry was in his room. and this morning was a little craziness and chasing.

Barry is hiding - but the storm might have him freaked out. Let see how today goes and if I can get two nights in a row.

That is fantastic progress, I think if they have tolerated each other through the night then they will be fine from now on. There may be the odd spat but nothing serious.

So, two nights in a row in peace. Not so bad. Last night there was no chasing and Duncan hopped into our bed earlier. Barry still needs to get out of his room more when Duncan and the humans are out and about, but that might just be a function of time.

I'm not quite ready to call it a total success yet as they haven't spent the day together unsupervised yet, but this is what seemed to work:

1) Gave the new cat time to adjust. A lot longer than I thought would be necessary. As of last Friday, we had Barry for a month and Duncan for 3 months. I honestly thought that I could get them integrated in a week. It took a week just for Barry to accept me being in the room with him and stop hiding. I spent a lot of time just sitting in his room reading and talking to him. An hour or so every night. I will say that once the new cat started adjusting, things sped up a little bit. It used to take ten minutes to get him to take a treat and even longer for pets. Now he will take a treat from my hand right away and pets are pretty quick too.

2) "Feed them on either side of the door" Didn't work at all. Barry never paid attention to Duncan and Duncan wouldn't eat away from his spot. I put up a baby gate so that they could see each other instead - Drove Duncan crazy. Once Duncan figured out that he could jump the gate, doubled gates drove him even crazier. But they could safely interact.

3) Expanded the new cat's safety zone. I split the house into upstairs and downstairs with the baby gates. This gave Duncan most of the house to keep but let Barry get a bigger area to explore and own. They were separated like this while we were at work and overnight. At least 20 hours a day, but they could still interact between the baby gates. This boosted Barry's confidence and I think was the most important step.

4) Supervised visits that grew longer and longer. After the initial investigation and posturing (and sometimes fighting) the cats just started ignoring each other. Either staying in the same room or moving about. Duncan tends to herd Barry into his room which needs to be overcome, but like I said, that might just take time. Initially, I tried to break up the "fights" but they weren't really fights so I let them go (mostly) until the last big one which seemed to set the hierarchy and created a detente between them. Duncan is still a kitten and wants to stalk and play, but he is also not neutered, so there are the hormones in play. (that gets taken care of tomorrow)

I didn't do much scent exchange or any site swapping. Barry was too shy to try to force to move and Duncan would just barge into Barry's room anyway

It sounds like everything is going so well. Well done you!!
The room thing with Barry will just take time, he sees it as his safe zone at the minute but he will get over that.