Kitten drops to lethargy and out

Kittens Mom said:

 
I'd still use a flea comb and perhaps very carefully some not to sticky scotch tape to gently dab at the fleas on the kitten. If you put things in a priority getting food into the kitten and having bowel movements is going to be a priority for the kitten to live. 

I think there are several types of diatomaceous earth. Not sure they are all safe. If the baby can get enough strength a second bath in Dawn would be better.

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It must be labelled human grade / food grade.  The other types are dangerous to cats.

It had healthy stool yesterday just before I got to sleep. Long, soft and yellow.

Today I was awaken by kitten's cries. Her movement is erratic, can't tell if it is from weakness or bone problems. It probably is not deaf but probably is blind.

Suckled hungreily 6-7 ml KMR (no pedialite), and then it went into calmness and then slept.

During the whole procedure my house cat became very agitated and responded to kittens cries with howling to the door and aggressive posture.

I believe there is probability to go into coma after each feeding. Should it be stabilized during the next 4-5 feedings, is it safe to bring it to its mom?

George Chr said:

 
It had healthy stool yesterday just before I got to sleep. Long, soft and yellow.

Today I was awaken by kitten's cries. Her movement is erratic, can't tell if it is from weakness or bone problems. It probably is not deaf but probably is blind.

Suckled hungreily 6-7 ml KMR (no pedialite), and then it went into calmness and then slept.

During the whole procedure my house cat became very agitated and responded to kittens cries with howling to the door and aggressive posture.

I believe there is probability to go into coma after each feeding. Should it be stabilized during the next 4-5 feedings, is it safe to bring it to its mom?

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Wonderful about the more normal bowel movement. The kitten is/has been very sick. Some weakness is to be expected. I guess that it's a matter of time and if you see improvement.

Just found this thread-yes DE food grade is safe! just becareful of breathing it in-I would put a tshirt or similar fabric around the head to shield the nose from breathing-stick hands in DE and run it back and forth in the fur-this will kill the fleas. wait half an hour-comb out. Repeat this later in the day. It works and better than wetting the kitten. At this point its vital that you keep the body temperature up as they can't regulate their temp yet. Then when warmed up-feed-stimulate-comb out fleas-rinse and repeat until no more fleas visible.

If you have a hardware store that sells pet supplies like horse feed and cattle supplies-theywill have it-just make sure Food Grade-most people in the farming industry have been using this method for years. They also add to food to kill parasites in the cattle feed/horse feed. kills weevils etc.

Thank you for trying to save this baby!

My main problem r now is that while it resists to eat when it should be hungry.

It is calmly sitting on its spot, awake.

I fed it before 3-4 hours, 6-7 ml and when I attempted to feed again a moment back it denied to suck and rejected the bottle. Should I force it? Should I return to KMR+pedialte?

PS. That was its exact feeding pattern before it went under assuming it was not feeding from its mom at all.

Do you have a needleless syringe you can try feeding the kitten with?  Kittens with a mom to nurse from don't like bottles.

Yes I was feeding it with a syringe when it was in coma. I will try force feed it again.

It has no problem wtih the bottle. When it is hungry it sucles from the bottle passionately. It just seems it  is hungry 2-3 times per day, and even then not for more than 6-7 ml.

6 - 7 ml 3 times a day is not enough food for the kitten.  It will slowly starve to death if it doesn't get more food. 

can you get some new makeup sponges? you can have kitten suckle from sponge and syringe formula on the sponge to saturate it. Or just keep trying with the needleless syringe. a drop at a time at the corner of the mouth-I am sure someone already said=belly down-head up.

Kitten isn't resistant to the device that feeds it but to the milk. It accepts the bottle in its mouth but when tastes milk it reluctantly swallows and then averts its muzzle. I will try to force feed it 6 ml per 2 hours for a day and hope that when it gains its strength back it will be more eager to eat.

is the milk warmed up? Or try goats milk warmed up? Has to be warmed up-not room temp but warmer...maybe someone will chime in!

George Chr said:

 
My main problem r now is that while it resists to eat when it should be hungry.

It is calmly sitting on its spot, awake.

I fed it before 3-4 hours, 6-7 ml and when I attempted to feed again a moment back it denied to suck and rejected the bottle. Should I force it? Should I return to KMR+pedialte?

PS. That was its exact feeding pattern before it went under assuming it was not feeding from its mom at all.

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Its not unusual orphaned kittens have a sort of crisis when they are about 3-4 weeks - they are contend with just a part of what they need, and refuse to take more.   If that happens, its necessary to trick into them - or even forcefeed, more, because they DO need more.    

Im pretty sure especielly the very experienced Catwomen707 did mentioned this several times, to explain difficulties our forumites have sometimes when kittens come to this age.

Exactly how much is; 8ml / oz and day, it will give roughly at least 80 ml here...

So yes, you must give more - if you can get goat milk, try with this too, otherwise, continue with what you already have.

This also means, its not sure the kittens refuse to eat more eat because its sick and weak, but its in part a stadium in its development - which you must get it through - otherwise it may die for real, not because its sick, but because it didnt got enough.

StefanZ said:

 
Its not unusual orphaned kittens have a sort of crisis when they are about 3-4 weeks - they are contend with just a part of what they need, and refuse to take more.   If that happens, its necessary to trick into them - or even forcefeed, more, because they DO need more.    

Im pretty sure especielly the very experienced Catwomen707 did mentioned this several times, to explain difficulties our forumites have sometimes when kittens come to this age.

Exactly how much is; 8ml / oz and day, it will give roughly at least 80 ml here...

So yes, you must give more - if you can get goat milk, try with this too, otherwise, continue with what you already have.

This also means, its not sure the kittens refuse to eat more eat because its sick and weak, but its in part a stadium in its development - which you must get it through - otherwise it may die for real, not because its sick, but because it didnt got enough.

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I don't know if anyone asked but is there a rescue near you that could be of some help.

Definitely keep up with giving the milk. You probably don't have a feeding tube, but that would be my suggestion of there was a vet near you who could sell you one.

Have you offered any solids? It may be worth a try. Baby food on your finger or a tiny piece of chicken or even tuna. Sometimes you have to put it right on their lips or in their mouth so they can taste it and then they might become interested.

Edit: and still give honey on the gums for energy

Don't worry overmuch if the kitten is blind, although it will need to be an indoor only  cat.  Blind cats can live incredibly happy and full lives.

Right now, though, the feedings need to be small and frequent, even if  you have to force-feed.  I know you are exhausted.  Is there anyone, a friend perhaps, who could come in and feed while you get a long nap?

I am already in a 2 hour feeding pattern providing 8 ml milk via syringe. Yes I dip the syringe tip in honeywater before each dosage, it helps a lot. I am tempted to add to the formula 1/4 spoon honey.

Its health / activity is slightly increased after each time I see it, not its appetite though.

I am still worried it might be deaf and/or blind, if both it would be a huge issue.

I will try weaning some solids next time it actively seeks to be fed.

Okay so the deaf and blind thing, I highly doubt this and what you are seeing that makes you think this might be is due to the kitten being consumed with surviving, basically ignoring sights and sounds.

My bottom line advice is, the very best chance you give this kitten is through vigilant feeding, like it or not. (kitten I mean!)

A normal healthy kitten can decide how much he drinks of formula, but a debilitated unwell kitten needs you to decide this, because they are NOT going to take in what their body needs.

This is why a scale is so important. If you were able to weigh kitten, then we would know the exact amt to be feeding daily.

THIS is what will give this baby the best chance of making it or not.

Any vet will weigh for free, I have even advised sneaking kitten to a grocery store and weighing it in the produce section! The post office, any place with a grams/ounces scale anywhere possible?? If really not, how about trying even a primitive method by taking 2 identical large bowls and using water you can compare, maybe start with 8 ounces, put a cup of water in the bowl, you know that weighs 8 ounces, then the kitten in the other bowl and lift, pick them up repeatedly, you will be able to tune yourself in and know which is heavier after a few times. Funny advice huh?! Hey, whatever works!  

An average kitten at 3 weeks weighs about 12 ounces. So 12 x 8 (mls per day needed, 8 mls per ounce per day) =96 mls a day.

I am assuming kitten is not ave weight though, so let's say weight is maybe 8 ounces. 8 x 8 mls=64 mls needed per day. Minimum intake.

Be sure formula is toasty warm, you can take a mug and fill it with very hot water, then float a small dish or cup on top of the mug water and syringe the milk from that so it stays warm. Kittens hate cold milk and it's gas causing and upsetting to their bodies anyway.

When she is not swallowing, she risks inhaling the milk, so take your time, just a few drops in to her cheek at a time, we don't want any chance of pneumonia, she's got enough going on already!

If you are using a larger syringe, you can every now and then just drop the full syringe right in to the hot water to re-warm it during feeding.

When you get a good, solid amt fed, then go take a good nap. Wake and feed again.

You are going to tire and burn yourself out if you don't renew your own energy.

It can take days for this one to stabilize, or pass if that's the case, so you must rest yourself too.

8 mls fed every 3 hours on the hour (meaning regardless of how long feeding takes) for instance feed at 9, 12, 3, 6, etc will help know exactly how much you are actually feeding per day.

Don't worry about pottying so much, once kitten is taking in enough it will go on it's own.

As for flea treating, I have treated super young babies with a small drop or two of advantage, but would not treat this one, it's more than the body can handle right now.

However, if you see more than 1 or 2 fleas, this is a problem and only helping the kitten's weakness.

The most effective way to bathe with dawn soap is, take a washcloth and put it over your first 2 fingers, wet it good and squirt the dawn soap, a good amt on to the cloth, then high up on kitten's neck you will create a thick sudsy soap ring first. This works as a barrier from the fleas climbing up in to her eyes/nose/ears, which is what they will do right away.

Once you have applied the soap using a circular motion so it gets down on to her skin well, then proceed to wet and soap up the rest of her body.

It takes from 10-15 minutes for a flea to finally be unable to breathe and forces them to let go of her skin and will rinse down the sink, so take your time, soap well all over, under tail, underarms and between legs, even wipe her with the toothbrush during this, she will love how this all feels.

Don't rinse her until the soap has had time to sit and suffocate the fleas for a while. You should re-wet cloth now and then so she stays warm too. If you need more soap after doing so then add more.

Either this, or you can drown them simply by making the neck soap ring and holding the rest of her body under water for a full 10-15 minutes in a large bowl or water filled sink.

When done, be sure ALL the soap is completely rinsed, she should feel squeaky clean.

Wrap well in a warm towel, you can even toss in a dryer while bathing her for cozy warmth.

Get her as dry as possible with towel, then wrap her in a clean dry towel.

I use a blow dryer but this is tricky, the hot air can very easily burn her skin so I place my hand between kitten and air so I can feel the heat and will constantly move it around.

So just depends on how many fleas we're talking here.

Fleas alone can and will kill a kitten, but telling me her gums are pink means she should not be or at least if she does now, hasn't always been loaded with fleas too much.

Mamanyt1953 said:

 
Don't worry overmuch if the kitten is blind, although it will need to be an indoor only  cat.  Blind cats can live incredibly happy and full lives.

Right now, though, the feedings need to be small and frequent, even if  you have to force-feed.  I know you are exhausted.  Is there anyone, a friend perhaps, who could come in and feed while you get a long nap?

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Yes blind or deaf is okish, being both is what I am afraid. Its very probable that it is disinterested in giving attention to anything it listeans to or sees. Anyhow I think 3-4 week old kittens still see blurish, and until the 7th-8th week vision is a secondary sense for them. It remains to be seen.

Unfortunately I can't keep it. Before 2 years I hand reared 3 kittens and had to give 2 of them out. Additionaly the one I kept, my house cat is very antisocial / hostile to anyone but me, human or animal.

No, there is none that I know of that would have the patience to force feed, but I am ok. I have to have 6 hour nap like yesterday but keeping a 2 hour / 8 ml schedule means abt 75-80 ml in a day including the 2 lost meals during my nap.

George Chr said:

 
I am already in a 2 hour feeding pattern providing 8 ml milk via syringe. Yes I dip the syringe tip in honeywater before each dosage, it helps a lot. I am tempted to add to the formula 1/4 spoon honey.

Its health / activity is slightly increased after each time I see it, not its appetite though.

I am still worried it might be deaf and/or blind, if both it would be a huge issue.

I will try weaning some solids next time it actively seeks to be fed.

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Excellent!  You have raised the total food intake quite a lot, into the adequate levels now.      And yes, you may add a little honey into the formula.

If you manage some solids, alike wet cat food, the  calorie density is somewhat higher than in formula.  So it wont be necessary to give as much in ml.  although I presume you will water down at first, if you must give with syringe.

The tube feeding mentioned is effective with weak kittens and refusing kittens, and also some prematures.  The problem is, its dangerous if you dont exactly know how to do it.  And it seems, many vet dont know either.   also, you must have gears.  That is why we seldom mention it.  Normally, skilly use of syringe is enough.

So its a good trick for somebody whom often does rescuers, but nothing for a newbe, unless shown properly by someone experienced.

But yes, if all vets knew how to do it, AND were willing to show, and sell the suitable gears, the picture and statistics would change quite a some...

I have had a case with a rescuer who did fought, oh so she did fought with her reluctant kitten,  she even went to four  different vets...  That is this way I do KNOW most vets dont know nothing about tube feeding...

Today I would probably advice her to google, look up several sites, and try on her own hand...  I did learned the lesson the hard way...

@chipmunk-kim

You are doing an amazing job for this kitten.  My heart has been in my mouth reading through from the start of this thread and waiting to see how the little creature is doing.   Keep following the advice you are being given, and asking questions when you are not sure about something.  You have already extended this little one's life and each day is a day with potential to get stronger.   

I agree with others: not to worry so much about sight and hearing, esp now when this kitten has so many other priorities.  It is too early to know whether hearing is there as all the energy is going in to basic survival.   Sight is not important to very young kittens and is not as important to cats in general.  Their other senses such as smell and touch through their whiskers are much more useful to them than we humans tend to expect because even as adult cats their sight is not as acute as ours.  (Their eyes have developed to detect movement rather than detail).  If senses are missing from birth it is amazing too how other senses develop to compensate.  Once your little one is stronger it will be much easier to tell whether there are any sensory difficulties - until then getting food / liquid, sleep, growth, warmth and  gentle grooming contact to control those fleas are the priorities for all of his or her energies.