Young Kitten Homing Advice

Hi folks!

Bit of a conundrum, just looking for a little advice.

My partner and I bought our first home last year and have decided on getting 2 kittens. We responded to an on-line advert for 6 week old kittens, ready for homing in 2 weeks time - perfect we thought, 8-9 week old kittens by the time we can collect! On visiting the kittens, the plot thickened somewhat.

The mother (bless her) is only 9 months old, and has managed to safely deliver a litter of 6 kittens, and has seemingly done a great job thus far looking after her little family. The visit did however flag up one important issue - I do not believe these kittens are 6 weeks old, and potentially 4 weeks at best. (Opinons on their potential age very welcome, please see the video I took of them:



It also transpires that the family who own the mummy cat are imminently moving abroad, and only plan on taking her with them - which explains why they might be keen for me to think they are older. I have since spoken to the seller to see if there would be any wiggle room on how long they can spend with mum, but unfortunately they are due to leave in exactly 2 weeks time - at which point the kittens will be separated from mum regardless as they cannot take the kittens abroad with them.

Some people have advised to just walk away, but I cannot bring myself to do that - I feel that we can offer them a very loving and supporting home, and the alternative is that they end up in a shelter or rescue or sold off individually to potentially unsuspecting owners, whilst at least if we take on 2 they will have a sibling for some stability. I just wish they could spend more time with their mum, but that is simply impossible

Has anyone here had any experience in taking on kittens potentially as young as 6 weeks? I am current engrossed in 3 kitten books, not to mention copious web articles on the subject to make sure we are as prepared as possible. I am fully aware that being that young will leave them at a serious disadvantage in terms of social skills and potentially immune system - Any pointers or advice would be very gratefully received.

Many many thanks!

Ben

Oh yeah- those kittens are definitely not 6 weeks old. I think the estimation of 4 weeks sounds about right, though they still may be closer to three. Their ears haven't even unfolded yet!  

You are indeed in a pickle and I understand fully why you don't just want to walk away. Thank you for being so committed to them and actually considering what their alternate future is! 

While it is certainly not ideal, there are millions of kittens who never have a Mom and are raised by humans from birth who go on to be perfectly well adjusted cats. So, it's not a totally off the wall idea. 

Theoretically by 5-6 weeks they should be eating and drinking on their own and should be training to the litterbox. While they would still nurse for another 6 weeks or so they are not dependent on it, and most of what they learn from Mom after they start on solids is behavioral. When you get them, the biggest things they are going to need help with is finishing that training (it's pretty simple and we can walk you through it), as well as teaching them how to play appropriately. You are smart in wanting two and they will learn a lot of that from each other but you will want to be diligent in teaching that hands are not toys and couches aren't for scratching. Again, pretty simple, just requires consistency. It would be unlikely that they would need supplemental bottle feeding and if anything will be able to drink a kitten milk replacer out of a saucer. They may not be able to eat kibble yet but should be at least lapping up wet food. 

The biggest "problem" I ever really see in kittens weaned too early is that they have a tendency to develop suckling problems. This is something you will want to watch closely for and head off as soon as the behavior begins. There was a thread on this the other day that explains some of the basic techniques used: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262466/foot-sucking#post_3385359 . 

The final thing is that being so young they likely won't have any vetting done. At a minimum they will need to be de-wormed, altered, and given the basic set of kitten vaccines. So, be sure you are financially prepared for that (which I am assuming you are). 

One thing that wasn't clear to me from your post is: can they stay with Mom for these last two weeks or do they need to go ASAP? If they can stay with Mom and you can handle these basics and are ready for the commitment then I absolutely think you should adopt them. If they need to go ASAP it's going to be more work but in the same areas. I would try to reason with the family to get that extra time with her but if it's you or the shelter and you want them then I would still take them. 

If you do decide to adopt them please know we will be here to answer any and all questions. We have some super knowledgable posters in the Pregnant Cats and Kitten section and I have no doubt whatever presents itself can be worked out if we all put our heads together. 

The bottom line in choosing a kitten is not that we pick them but that they pick us. If these are your babies then adopt them and take it as it comes. But, if you are just considering it because you fear the alternative then maybe you can try to help them in a different way (perhaps by looking for an adopter for them yourself, or finding a no kill shelter where they can potentially be taken into foster). If you are that on the fence and can find a no kill shelter I would contact them and see if you can foster these two kittens. You may get some financial support with their vet bills and it gives you a chance to see if it's the right fit. If it's not no harm, no foul, as 99% of shelters are legally barred from adopting out kittens younger than 8 weeks and they must be altered before they go (in the US anyway. Other Countries vary). So, what you would be doing is keeping them out of a cage. And, if you decide to keep them, all the better! 

Please continue to ask questions as you need to, and let us know what you decide. Best of luck and Welcome to the Forums! 

Thank you for the swift and detailed reply! I am glad it’s not just me – I just kept thinking to myself, they seem nowhere near 6 weeks! In answer to your question about the timing, the kittens will remain with their mum for another 2 weeks exactly (we will collect them on evening of the 16^th August, as the family fly on the 17^th, so this is literally as long as they can possibly be with mum.)

Good to know that other kittens have gone on to lead normal lives even after an early separation, and we are more than happy to pick up the training where mum left off as best we can. I will take a good look through the link you posted and keep an eye out for any suckling issues as you suggest, and stock up on kitten milk re-placer.

With the vet trip – would it be advisable to get them in for an appointment as soon as we can after we take them home, or give them some time to adjust? Either way isn’t an issue for us, we are financial prepared for the costs and have 3 vets within a 5 minute walk of our front door.

Thank you so much for your offer of support, I will very much be popping on here regularly – I am very keen to learn! J

As for the bottom line, we have already fallen very much in love with these little fluff balls, the two we have chosen were particularly comfortable with us when handled, and just seemed more interested in us – our commitment is 110% to giving these Kittens a loving home for life.

Thanks again for your reply J

Ben

Yeah they are def about 3-4 weeks old. I've raised many kittens without mom and they all turned out fine and its good that you will be taking two since they learn bite innabition from thier littermates. The only prob you might run into is if they arnt completley weened yet. I usually start mine around 4 and half weeks but some havent been complteley off the bottle til almost 7 weeks. Good luck keep us posted.

Mankindben said:

With the vet trip – would it be advisable to get them in for an appointment as soon as we can after we take them home, or give them some time to adjust? Either way isn’t an issue for us, we are financial prepared for the costs and have 3 vets within a 5 minute walk of our front door.

Thank you so much for your offer of support, I will very much be popping on here regularly – I am very keen to learn! J

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Do you have any other animals in the home? If you do I would probably get them to the vet's straight away. That way you can be sure they don't have anything blatantly contagious happening. Otherwise, maybe give it a few days and then take them. Sometimes underlying illnesses (like  respiratory or eating problems) may develop with the stress of the move, or you may notice some things about their health/behavior that you want to have looked over. Waiting a couple of days keeps you from having to take them back. 
 

Thankfully kittens are pretty adaptable and so it shouldn't be too traumatizing. That said, you can minimize stress by taking a blanket over to their house now and asking the family to use it. When you get the kittens bring the blanket back too. It will have the familiar scents on it and will be very comforting to them. 

Also, for the first few days keep them confined to one area of the house (most likely the bedroom). They are too small to have full reign and need to be close to the litterboxes (have several small ones set up). It will also help with the adjustment process and won't be as overwhelming. Spend a lot of time with them but also give them some privacy to explore at their own pace. 

Before they arrive make sure you kitten proof the heck out of that room. They will be into anything and everything! Lay on your stomach on the floor and look around- that way you can see things from their perspective. Breakables should be moved off shelves, small hidey holes should be blocked off, cords should be secured down, and anything small and digestible should be thrown away. If they can get to it they WILL put it in their mouths, explore it with their paws, flick it with their tails, curl up and take a nap in it.... you get the picture! Also, make sure you have plenty of appropriate things for them to explore- scratching posts, interactive wand toys, floor toys, and their own beds are all critical. Start teaching them now what is okay and what is not. 

So excited to be a part of this journey that you are all about to take! 

Hi Sheltielover - good to hear that! I will indeed keep posting as things progress.

Hi again EB24 we do have one other animal, a bearded dragon. She lives in a vivarium and only comes out for a short run every day or so under our supervision. Planning to not let cats in the room when we do that, and the rest of the time her Viv will be locked shut to stop any exploring the cats might do as they get older!

We took a blanket over today as you suggested, so that should be a good start! We've also started kitten proofing a room and buying toys and scratching post etc. for them when they arrive!

In terms of teaching them what's ok and what's not - how would we best achieve that?

We are so very excited - you can expect regular updates on their progress and links to photos

Mankindben said:

Hi again EB24

we do have one other animal, a bearded dragon. She lives in a vivarium and only comes out for a short run every day or so under our supervision. Planning to not let cats in the room when we do that, and the rest of the time her Viv will be locked shut to stop any exploring the cats might do as they get older!
 

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Haha yes, a good pet, but not the kind I had in mind.   You guys should be fine waiting on the vet if you want. 

While you are smart to keep them separated eventually you may want to try and teach the kittens how NOT to play with her just in case she were to ever get out. Granted, that might be easier said than done!

Mankindben said:

In terms of teaching them what's ok and what's not - how would we best achieve that?
 

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Part of this is just going to be waiting and see what areas they need help with. But, in general, a big thing is going to be teaching appropriate play. With kittens this age I ALWAYS have a soft toy in my pocket. When I get on their level to play inevitably someone will go for hands. When they do, I gently push my hand BACK into their mouth and let out a cry (the same one the sibling will make when play gets too rough- you will know it). Pulling the hand away triggers the predator instinct and makes them want to get it. Pushing inwards is a dominance thing- they will hate the feeling and will automatically release. When they do let go I pull the toy out and get them going with that. 

Doing this teaches them that: they have played too rough (with the cry), that hands are no fun (with the push), and this other toy is way better. 

In order for it to work however you both must be absolutely consistent. If they are insistent with hand play you wait until they are doing it, release them, and get up and walk away. This teaches that hand play = no more play. Do it enough and they will get the picture! If you get frustrated and want to "discipline" (we all get there) remember: their memory for these types of things is about 3 seconds. If what you do isn't immediate they won't draw the connection. So, discipline never works, and you have to be on the ball in following these steps to ensure they are connecting the behavior to the consequence. 

Making sure they have lots of enrichment items (aka toys, scratching posts, play tunnels, crazy circles) is also critical. Otherwise, they will entertain themselves with your things. Anytime you catch them doing something they aren't supposed to be doing re-direct them to something more appropriate. Scratching on the side of the couch? Move them to the scratching post and run their paws down it. When they do scratch it, reward the behavior with treats. If they are insistent about something (scratching a certain place, ect) move something to that area. So, if they keep scratching the couch move a scratching post right to that spot and then try redirecting. You can also cover furniture in the plastic wrap that movers use or get double sided no scratch tape at the petstore and put it there to deter scratching. If you do have to move something remember you can always move it back. The key thing is to get them using it for the behavior, and then slowly move it back to the desired location. 

I am also a huge believer in changing behavior via food. Anytime they are doing something "good" (even if it's just laying in their bed) reward them with a treat! Soon, I promise you will see them doing those things more and more in the hopes that the treats will come. 

I do think we need to briefly (like I'm ever brief) address the food and litter situation. Make sure you get from their current home at least a weeks worth of food and find out what litter they have been using (even better if you can just get some of it). Younger than 8 weeks I still highly recommend a non clumping litter. Clumping litter is meant to expand when wet, and, if the kittens ingest any of it, it can cause a life threatening blockage. I personally use Worlds Best. It's made of corn so clumps differently. It also has very low dust and is biodegradable. You can even flush it! The reviews on WB are very mixed and it seems people either love it or totally hate it. It's just a personal choice. 

You will want to make sure you have several litterboxes set up throughout the room. If they have an accident (and they will) clean up what you can of it and put it in one of the boxes. Also make sure you clean the area really well with an enzyme remover like Nature's Miracle to prevent remarking. Also, observe them and make sure the boxes work. They may be too large (or later too small) for them. For kittens this age I recommend having at least one regular size box and at least two small boxes (I get mine at petco). Over time you can pull the small ones but at least you know they can get in and out. 

As for food: make sure you have some KMR and bottles on hand just in case. Hopefully they are on dry kibble and wet food already and will keep that up, but you may have to use the KMR. I've used it so little I'm not good with the dosing amount so post here if that's the case so someone else can help. As for their future diet: that is up to you. The best thing for them is a raw diet, followed by an all wet diet. If you have to keep dry in the picture (it happens so don't feel bad) make sure you get them on a high quality grain free variety. My favorites are Orijen, Acana, and Natures Instinct, though Blue Buffalo and Wellness both make a good grain free variety. And, make sure you have them on wet food at least once a day to keep their hydration levels up. I love TikiCat, BFF, and Weruva, though there are tons of great brands. I would urge you to look through the threads in the nutrition section for more information on the best ways to feed. But, to start, just slowly transition them off of whatever they were on. Don't go too fast or they will get diarrhea. 

A final word: you may hear/read about using things like a can full of pennies or a misting water bottle to deter behavior. It is my strong personal belief (as well as the general stance of this site) that these types of negative reinforcement never need to be used, and that there is always a positive reinforcement technique that will equally get the job done without the risk of long term behavioral effects. There was recently a thread debating this issue that may be of interest to you: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261565/...on-trying-to-keep-kitten-indoors#post_3384461 . Ultimately, you won't get in trouble or anything for using these techniques, just understand there may be negative side effects. As I already said we are here to help you so try and get some positive reinforcement ideas before you go this route. I have two perfectly well behaved felines (one that was born here so I know everything I'm telling you does work) and only used positive reinforcement. Of course, you will hear the same argument from the other side but if you can achieve it without going there then why wouldn't you? A great book you may want to consider reading is "How to Think Like a Cat" by Pam Johnson-Bennett. It does a great job of getting you in the cat mind frame. And, while it doesn't have to do with kittens per se and there is a huge human element in the book, you may like "Cat Daddy" by Jackson Galaxy. I just finished it and thought it was amazing. It really changed my whole perspective on feline behavior and helped me understand them that much more. 

Hopefully you are on information overload now and your brain is swimming. I promise, it won't be as difficult as it may sound, you just want to try and be prepared for anything and everything!

Keep the questions coming, though if I have to keep responding with novels I'm going to start charging you! 

Hi again! Sorry for the delay - a hectic 3 day weekend with birthdays and cat-related shopping! Many thanks for the very long reply! I have given it a good read, and its fantastic - I'll try to reply to as many points as possible below. I feel its worth me mentioning that I am based in the UK, so the brands of food and litter and such are quite different

Good to hear the beardie wont be an issue! We will look into introducing them at some point, there seem to be a lot of articles on the subject, so that's good! Ill get the Kittens booked into the vet a few days after they arrive, just so they can relax a bit before we put them back into carriers for another excursion. 

I have had a very thorough read of your advice on teaching them what's ok and not ok, and will be following that once they arrive! I will let you know how we are getting on with it

As far as enrichment items is concerned, we have (so far) got some toy mice, cardboard play boxes, a couple of scratching posts with dangley things, a wand toy, and a laser pointer thing - we plan on getting some more things soon We have also purchased some 'bitter apple' spray just incase we need to make anything taste bad, but I will look into the double sided tape you mention to deter scratching

You mention using treats to reward good behaviour, are there treats suitable for young kittens, or is there an age requirement?

We have taken note of the litter used at their current home, and the food so that we can keep things as similar as possible. They are currently using 'Catsan' which is non clumping, but Im keen to gradually change this over to 'Bio-Catolet' which is a lightweight non-clumping recycled paper cat litter suitable for flushing. We have already bought several litterboxes as you instruct, so no worries on that front. Also picked up a cat and kitten specific cleaning product just to be safe. We will keep a close eye and make sure they can use them without too much hassle

I have KMR on order, and we spotted bottles in a local pet store the other day, so I will probably go and grab one just to be on the safe side! The current family seem pretty convinced that they will be on solids before we collect, but I have no idea what makes them so sure! As for their on going diet, I will do my research on UK brands and see whats what!

Point taken on the postive vs negative reinforcement - it makes sense. I will take a look through the link you provided on the subject at any rate, but Im not keen on the idea of 'punishing' any animal. 

As an update - apparently mum is now litter training her little ones (as of about Friday) so thats encouraging to hear

We are soooo excited >_<

It sounds like you've got everything covered! Just a tip for pet supplies - zooplus.co.uk has a pretty good selection (including various qualities of food) and fast shipping. Their Cosma dehydrated meat treats have always been a huge hit with kittens and cats here, though I've never given them or any other treats to really young kittens.

Cheers jcat! I will check out zooplus.co.uk and see what they have! We are now just waiting for various items to arrive, and brushing up on our kitten knowledge in anticipation of next Friday.

Hi folks! Well, yesterday we got a call from the family who we were getting the Kittens from - essentially we had to pick them up a day early, which was a shame but unavoidable with them leaving the country. 

Kittens are now back at our house, with their safe room set up. They have very quickly adjusted and are into just about everything! Eating both dry and wet kitten foods, plus KMR from a saucer. Playing with their toys, using their scratching post, playing with each other - its brilliant Both have used the litter tray for a wee, but only one has had a number 2 so far. The one that hasn't gone yet is the one that took a little longer to warm up to the wet food (we are now 24hrs in, so I guess it wont be long!).

Things seem to be going pretty swimmingly so far - which is fantastic Here is a link to a few video clips of their first afternoon / evening with us  



Thanks to everyone (Especially EB24) for the help and advice thus far As you can see in the video, they are very definitely not 8 weeks old like we'd been told, but they seem to be doing very well indeed!

Oh that video is just too sweet and they are absolutely adorable!!!! Are they both female? (Im assuming as it looks like a calico and a tortie). Have you settled on names yet?

You are right that they are definitely not 8 weeks but seem to be developing perfectly. One thing to keep an eye (I think I mentioned this already but I can't remember) is them suckling each other. If they start use the bitter apple- hopefully it will stop the behavior quickly!

As for treats, I LOVE the PureBites brand. They are 100% meat and easy to break into smaller pieces. They are also very light and so you can feed a lot if them without them filling up (versus a heavier jerky type) which is why I like them for training. It's what I used to clicker train my little guy and he still goes bonkers for them! If you search you will find some reviews on TCS (sorry I'm on my phone and can't find the link). I'm also pretty sure that they are sold in the UK.

Now that you have them in the home more questions will arise so don't hesitate. Also, don't be skimpy with the updates! I NEED pictures and details so I can get my kitten fix!

Hope the vet appointment goes well- let us know what they say. Congrats again on the new family members!

They are indeed both female (at least, thats what the guy thought and we concur... the vet will know of course, but I think its pretty much a cert now!) We have named them Florence (Calico) and Pepper (Torty). No signs of suckling behaviours so far, but we are being very vigilant! I will keep an eye out of the treats you mentioned, there must be something of that type in the UK somewhere

As for the kitten fix, here are some photos from last night and this morning https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153280000535727.1073741829.634475726&type=1&l=7bc5041cc1 its a public link, so should work fine

As of last night, both have poo'd (several times) and seem pretty settled down. Last night I took them through to the living room on a cuddly bed and stroked them whilst they slept for a good half an hour before popping them back into the safe room over night.

With them being so relaxed its hard to know - how long should we be keeping them shut into the safe room over night, we are toying with the idea of giving them free reign over the hall and stairs, but shutting the doors to the kitchen and living room etc incase they want to run about a bit more... not sure yet

Hope you enjoy the photos!

They're adorable, and I especially loved seeing Florence going to town on her dinner! That wide-eyed kitten curiosity is irresistible.

I've embedded your YouTube video, as that's what the Forum Rules call for. There are instructions on how to do it here:
How to embed YouTube Videos

I love the kitten fix! They are both so cute! Miss Florence has definitely stolen me ( don't worry, Pepper is equally as stunning) but I have never had a calico kitten in foster and think she's precious! I guess I've never had a tortie either but one of my residents is one so im very familiar with the look- its so regal. I think they are both going to grow into stunning looking cats!

As far as expanding their space: remember, you can always give them more but it's very,very hard to take it away. Right now that safe room is their world and they don't know there is anything beyond it. The choice is ultimately yours (just add more boxes as you need to) but I usually don't let my fosters go full roaming until they are 7-8 weeks and have a little more bladder control and are less like Hoover vaccums eating every scrap off the floor. Even if you don't want to wait that long I would at least wait until after the vet appt just in case any illnesses manifest. It's so much easier to deal with those things in a small area!

As you do expand their space be sure every expierence is a positive one. The next few weeks are critical and will help shape their personalities. So, go slow but also be normal. They need to know the sound of the TV, the vacuum, the blender- all those normal household things so they aren't scared of them later. And, once they get the vet okay start having as many people as you can over (taking proper hand washing precautions on both ends) and work on their socialization. You want them exposed to as many types of people (including careful children though they should be a little bigger before that) as possible so they have a good range. Everyone should get down on their level and treat them regularly.

I hope this isn't taken out of context, but I have often wondered if cats have any concept of "race" or if they respond differently to people with a different skin tone than their owners. I have never noticed any difference but I also live in a pretty homogenius town. Just something to think about I suppose if you have a very diverse group of friends in your lives.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks JCat - Ill try to bare that in mind next time I post a video >_< Florence still eats like that, but its not quite so bad now she's learning fast

Thanks EB24 - We have slowly expanded their space, and yesterday they discovered they can climb the stairs so slowly branching out now! Vet appointment is tomorrow evening, so that should be good! They are still continuing to eat and drink plenty, although Florence has suffered one or two slightly less well formed poops (probably due to change of diet) Often her backside appears to be wet as well, and yesterday we thought her bottom looked a little sore (nothing major however) so we will be pointing that out to the vet tomorrow.

Normal life in the house is continues, hoovering, dishwashers, TV, Radio, flushing toilets and other loud noises as you recommended hopefully they will be well used to it in a few weeks. We've also had plenty of visitors to ensure that they get a good socialising with different people all going well so far!

Their favourite thing at the moment seems to be sitting on me if I sit down with them, or otherwise chasing us around the house as we go about normal activities!

Quick update: Vets trip went well, she was very impressed with how well they are doing all considered and thinks that we have everything covered! Due to start vaccinations and such in about 3 weeks time (due to the unconfirmed age) and have now started them on wormers (especially as their little tummys are quite round and firm, apparently a sign of potential worm problems!). Gave them their first batch of that last night, poor Pepper got the short straw as she sadly ended up with a little more than we had thought in her mouth (Its the weird notched plastic syringe jobby) and went around trying to spit as much out as possible - pretty sure enough went in tho!

All in all, things are looking good Pepper has learnt how to 'pounce' on things now, but this currently consists of jumping onto her target and then standing there looking confused

Poor Pepper - she'll get the hang of things in a couple of days or weeks. :lol3: Kittens are so funny (and so much fun) at that age.

Hi folks!

Wow - what a week! We have both been off work to spend time with the Kittens and help them adjust to (most of) the house as their territory now. By the Vets reckoning they are now about 7.5 - 8 weeks old which is great. They both seem to be very healthy, and are eating/drinking/pooping well. 

I've added a few more photos you might all enjoy to this public album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10153280000535727.1073741829.634475726&type=1&l=7bc5041cc1

There are only a couple of questions I have, and I will try to explain below;

1) Pepper is still the less confident of the two. Its not too serious, as most of the time she is pretty brazen and will come right up to you for affection - but sometimes she gets quite nervous of the smallest things and on occasion will run and hide. This is improving slowly, but any advice on how to build her confidence in these important weeks would be much appreciated.

2) Florence seems to struggle with the concept of covering up her poo in the litter tray. Sometimes she scrapes the litter and manages to cover it a little, and sometimes she simply doesn't bother! Any pointers on how to help her learn?

They are now learning how to pounce properly, and tearing around the house at 100 miles per hour, which is good to see The best part (for me at least) is that in the evening they like to sit on our laps/on the sofa with us and sleep/watch TV for 30 mins or so at a time, which is wonderful

Ben they are gorgeous. Did you take the photos yourself, because they are very good.