My friend's biological clock!

yosemite · Jan 22, 2011

Wow! This thread is amazing.

If a couple (or even a single person) wants to have their own child, at any age, are mature and financially stable, loving and caring, who are we to say they are selfish /should adopt instead/shouldn't have a child?

A parent can die or get ill at ANY age so I don't believe age has anything to do with it except that if the parent is 15 or 16 years old they are hardly likely to be able to support a child physically or emotionally. Gosh they are just children themselves.

My boss's friend sat at the table with her children having breakfast (she was in her early 30's at the time) and she dropped dead on the spot from a brain aneurysm. Gee, how selfish of her to have children that were now orphans!

I personally am not the type of person who would be comfortable adopting a child so I certainly would not condemn anyone else.

I just don't understand how it is selfish to want your own biological child or even how it's anyone's business except the person wanting the child.

As for birth defects, I have 2 friends who have Down's Children and both were young when they had them. In fact one lady had a second child after her first which was Down's and the second child is a beautiful and very intelligent girl who is now a Chemical Engineer.

There are many easy tests today to determine if there are health problems in unborn children and if you ask any parent of a special needs child, I'll bet you they would say they wouldn't change a thing and that their child is just as loved as any other child.

Perhaps we are all just too judgmental these days and seem to think we know what is best for other people.

ut0pia · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Wow! This thread is amazing.

If a couple (or even a single person) wants to have their own child, at any age, are mature and financially stable, loving and caring, who are we to say they are selfish /should adopt instead/shouldn't have a child?

I think it's hardly this simple when we are talking about IVF treatments, whether it be their own eggs or a donor's eggs, and using a surrogate.
I don't think anyone would criticize someone who got pregnant naturally at any age, but that's just IMO, at least what I had to say was mostly because the woman was using IVF and was past menopause, so she couldn't naturally get pregnant.
I have nothing against someone at any age having children naturally.

carolina · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I think it's hardly this simple when we are talking about IVF treatments, whether it be their own eggs or a donor's eggs, and using a surrogate.
I don't think anyone would criticize someone who got pregnant naturally at any age, but that's just IMO, at least what I had to say was mostly because the woman was using IVF and was past menopause, so she couldn't naturally get pregnant.
I have nothing against someone at any age having children naturally.

Do you think it is simple for her? Do you think she is doing this because she is a spoiled brat? Have you met anyone who wen through cycles of IVF, and miscarriages to know how amazingly painful the process she is going through is? I am hoping you have, because it is an amazingly painful emotional ride... I am pretty sure this lady is not taking this lightly.... But this is her need... her personal need. Not based on your or anybody's beliefs, but her innermost needs... I know people who do not feel themselves complete without a child of their own... And have tried and tried for years, and lost, and tried again, with everything they got, as they were simply not whole not bearing a child of their own. This is a strong, powerful feeling inside of them. This is not being selfish or spoiled, and can't change.
Seeing threads like this really really saddens me... Judging people like that for their maternity choices? Really? What is this? Gee, does anyone need to fit a bill to be accepted? I would thought we were evolved enough by now to be a bit more tolerant with such a personal choice?
How is her choice affecting anybody here who is judging this woman?
I can not grasp this concept, quite frankly, I don't want to.

yosemite · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I think it's hardly this simple when we are talking about IVF treatments, whether it be their own eggs or a donor's eggs, and using a surrogate.
I don't think anyone would criticize someone who got pregnant naturally at any age, but that's just IMO, at least what I had to say was mostly because the woman was using IVF and was past menopause, so she couldn't naturally get pregnant.
I have nothing against someone at any age having children naturally.

And you know that she is past menopause? As a 64 year old I can tell you that not all women go through menopause at age 50.

As for IVF treatments, I think it's wonderful that science has advanced to allow women who otherwise would have remained childless and feel sorrow to now have the opportunity to have their own baby. Perhaps the feeling of having that child grow in her uterus is a feeling she wants to experience regardless of where that egg came from.

My BF's sister and her husband had IVF and have a beautiful little girl now. They tried a second time but were not lucky enough for it to take so they stopped trying. I see the joy and love in their lives from this little girl and can only say, how wonderful! I don't see anything selfish or bad about it.

I can't help but wonder if shelters wouldn't allow anyone over, say 60, to adopt an animal in case they might not live long enough to be sure the animal would not be left alone. I can imagine the uproar one would hear from a nmber of people.

kara_leigh · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by Trouts mom

Wow. I don't know how to put into words what I'm thinking.

I want children of my own, I don't give a sh!t if it takes until I'm 40. As a human with rights, and a woman this is important to me and my husband.

Honestly, I won't feel whole if I am not able to have a child that comes from me and my husband. Maybe some people are cut out to adopt, and maybe some aren't.

People are allowed to want a baby SO much, it is one of our basic instincts as humans...well even any species!

I feel like your post is demeaning something very important to some people.

Originally Posted by Carolina

thank you... I just don't get this either.... I just feel like it is a shame that people think they have the right to judge someone for their innermost feelings and dreams of motherhood... What is this, and where are we? This is really a shame IMHO... It is her life, her dreams... Her choice. Why is she obligated to adopt? This whole discussion just baffles me. I, on my end, just send her tons of vibes for a healthy pregnancy and baby, and a wonderful future for her child and family!

As someone who has gone through 10 1/2 years of infertility and multiple miscarriages, I can understand where the woman is coming from. I have a desperate need to have more children (it has been my dream since I was a small girl to be a mommy to a bunch of kid), so my husband and I will try until I can't any longer to have another child. I don't think it is anyone's business but my husband and I what we do or don't do when it comes to this. It doesn't affect anyone else but us, so why does it matter to you?? Like someone else said, people can die at any time. My husband's parents both died in a motorcycle accident at 23 years old, when my husband was 3 years old (his brother was 1y/o, his sister 5y/o).

ma.vie.en.vert · Jan 22, 2011

Oy, reproduction, having kids, its a touchy subject for me.

I was adopted at birth by my parents who were 32 at the time. They had tried having kids for several years, weren't able to, took it as a sign and adopted.

Then at 39 my mom miraculously became pregnant and had my sister, then my brother at 41.

I believe that if you're not able to have kids naturally, and you're an older person, take it as a sign that maybe you're just not supposed to be able to have kids.

My brother and sister have loads of health problems due to crappy genes. It's sad but they've wished more than once that they were never born, especially after finding out that my parents weren't able to have kids.

Both of my parents have a lot of health problems and my brother and sister are only 13 and 15. They will be lucky to see them graduate.

I don't believe that reproducing is a right, it's a privilege. There are so many factors you need to take into consideration when planning for a child. I was recently diagnosed with endometriosis and told that my chances of having a child in the future are slim to none. It upset my boyfriend and I a lot, but at the same time, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. There are so many unwanted children out there, how can you not adopt?

I believe age is a huge factor is the babies development as well. Those may be 25 yr old eggs, but its still sitting in a 50 yr old uterus.

But at the same time, I'd rather see 50 yr olds having kids than 16 yr olds having kids. *shudder* Kids having kids... bleeeeccchhhhh.

cococat · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by kara_leigh

As someone who has gone through 10 1/2 years of infertility and multiple miscarriages, I can understand where the woman is coming from. I have a desperate need to have more children, so my husband and I will try until I can't any longer to have another child. I don't think it is anyone's business but my husband and I what we do or don't do when it comes to this. so why does it matter to you?.

Originally Posted by Yosemite

Wow! This thread is amazing.

If a couple (or even a single person) wants to have their own child, at any age, are mature and financially stable, loving and caring, who are we to say they are selfish /should adopt instead/shouldn't have a child?

A parent can die or get ill at ANY age.

Originally Posted by spudsmom

I just wanted to add to the title, in my head. "My friend's biological clock...IS.NONE.OF.MY.BUSINESS (or anyone elses)"
lol!

Originally Posted by Trouts mom

Wow. I don't know how to put into words what I'm thinking.
People are allowed to want a baby SO much, it is one of our basic instincts as humans...well even any species!

Originally Posted by Carolina

This whole discussion just baffles me.

Agree with all of these. But I also know there are people that find these decisions worth discussion because I have seen TV there were shows advertised about it before.

I am in my 20's and married happily for years and if we wait until our 30's to have children it will be for reasons that are very responsible with the child in mind first. The reasons are many. We are more than just a number on paper, there is so much more to life and decision making processes than one single number.

ut0pia · Jan 22, 2011

I think the reason why this discussion is taking place is because we all know it's not really about the Linda's friend, Linda's friend is just an example, she could be anybody in that same situation. While it's odd we are in a sense discussing her choice, at least to me it's a broader discussion of whether using IVF treatments at a later age is a good idea ....

I've always been against IVF treatments at any age, to me at least, conceiving in a way other than naturally is nothing but a whim, because there is always adoption..
That's just how I feel about it, for those who do it, I wouldn't personally judge them, I wouldn't question the kind of parents they would be. I'm sure there are wonderful parents and wonderful children out there who were conceived this way, but that's besides the point, what I'm discussing is the issue, and what I think of it.

I don't understand why some people are offended simply because others have a different opinion than them. While none of us can make a choice for another person, we can definitely put their choices in the context of what's good for society, and this is what we are doing. It's been drilled into our heads as females that we need to become mothers, so of course some people don't take infertility well and they feel like an incomplete person. I see those people as victims, because IMO we put too much pressure on people and couples especially to reproduce and make the perfect baby, even though a lot of people don't even realize it. To me, it's the same as women who feel like they have to have breast implants in order to feel complete. Yes, to them it feels like something urgent and extremely important, but it's nothing but a desire to conform and be the perfect female according to society's standards...

cococat · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by ma.vie.en.vert

I was adopted at birth by my parents who were 32 at the time.

My brother and sister have loads of health problems due to crappy genes. It's sad but they've wished more than once that they were never born, especially after finding out that my parents weren't able to have kids.

Both of my parents have a lot of health problems and my brother and sister are only 13 and 15. They will be lucky to see them graduate.

There are so many unwanted children out there, how can you not adopt?

After reading your personal experience it doesn't really give me the impression adoption is a how can you not adopt type thing. You sound quite upset at the people who adopted you. And you state your teen brother and sister have crappy genes. This post makes me sad for you, your parents, and your brother and sister.

kara_leigh · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by cococat

After reading your personal experience it doesn't really give me the impression adoption is a how can you not adopt type thing. You sound quite upset at the people who adopted you. And you state your teen brother and sister have crappy genes. This post makes me sad for you, your parents, and your brother and sister.

I agree. If we ever adopt, and then get pregnant again afterward, I hope our adopted child doesn't feel that way about us.

I would be devastated to hear something like that.

KittenKrazy · Jan 22, 2011

My. Head. Hurts.....
I finally got through this entire thread.... just my two cents?

For the record, I'm 42 years old. Neither of us wanted children when I was younger, and about the time we decided that it wouldn't be the "worst" thing in the world for us if I got pregnant, I had to have a hysterectomy.. at 34 years old, and was told then that even as a teen I probably never would have been able to get pregnant. That was ok, it was our choice not to, no big deal. The great thing to me about this thread?

We live in a world that none of our grandparents could have ever imagined, re: life expectancy, improved health, medical breakthroughs and such.

We also live in a world where we are able to put some of those medical breakthroughs to use, ie: women giving birth to a baby when they are 50, if they really want to put themselves through that kind of trouble. Some countries tell you how many children you can have, even!

Most of us (all of us here, I think) live where we can at least share our opinions about things like this without fear of reprisal aside from someone taking offense to what is said....

Me, do I think she's wrong to have another baby now? Naah, but I do think she might just be crazy. If I were in her shoes, I'd adopt, but thankfully we have these options.

(and I'll get even about that crack about children w/o siblings....., lol!!)

calico2222 · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by ut0pia

I've always been against IVF treatments at any age, to me at least, conceiving in a way other than naturally is nothing but a whim, because there is always adoption..

A whim? Really? Do you have any idea what that costs? It's not like picking up a magazine or a candy bar while you're waiting in line at the grocery store. If you don't want kids that is fine, but some people do.

I've debated about posting here, because of my age and the fact that we are actively trying to have kids. I'm 41. I found out I was pregnant last March, and it was a shock! I miscarried. I didn't realize I wanted I child until I found our we were expecting. So we tried. And I got pregnant in August and carried until October. That miscarriage started on our wedding anniversary. Now, I'm worried about trying again. First because I don't know if I could go through the heart break again, and second because I'm worried about what people will think....a 42 yr old giving birth (omg, she couldn't possibly have the energy to take care of a baby, and she will die before the child graduates).

The thing is, those two babies have names. They left two holes in my heart and I cry for them. They were two little babies that didn't make it, and it was my fault. Stale eggs. Yes, I know the risks but my clock didn't start ticking until last year.

And yes, we could adopt. But I don't want to. Which is funny since I was adopted at 5 months in a closed state adoption. I spent my entire life knowing my eyes, my nose, my chin etc didn't come from my parents. I would LOVE to be able to look at another human being and be able to say "that's my hair", or "she has my eyes". Is that selfish? Yes. But I don't apologize for that because that is how I feel.

Bottom line is CONGRATS to them for having their first child. And if they want to have another if is nobody's business. Maybe we should be more concerned about the highschool kids having kids rather than older people that can actually support their children and are mature enough to take care of them.

kara_leigh · Jan 22, 2011

Originally Posted by calico2222

A whim? Really? Do you have any idea what that costs? It's not like picking up a magazine or a candy bar while you're waiting in line at the grocery store. If you don't want kids that is fine, but some people do.

I also think it's funny to hear people say that IVF shouldn't be used b/c if our bodies won't conceive than we just aren't meant to become parents. Saying that if our bodies won't work and conceive naturally, than it just isn't meant to be. Would you say that to someone that needs a heart transplant...or needs dialysis?? You might as well, b/c it's the same thing. Yes, IVF may not save a life, but it is the same line of reasoning. A part of our body does not work, so we bypass mother nature and do it ourselves.

going nova · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by ut0pia

To me, it's the same as women who feel like they have to have breast implants in order to feel complete. Yes, to them it feels like something urgent and extremely important, but it's nothing but a desire to conform and be the perfect female according to society's standards...

I'm surprised that some posters feel they're in a position to judge someone else's decision to have children... especially given that the mother-to-be in question has both the means and the desire to provide a comfortable life for her offspring. To me, the discussion is not about age and IVF.

I don't draw parallels between breast implants and having children. People don't usually have a biological (chemical) urge to undergo plastic surgery. On the other hand, hormones drive the desire to reproduce. It doesn't have to do with gender roles.

lady rowan · Jan 23, 2011

They were two little babies that didn't make it, and it was my fault. Stale eggs.

How can you say it is YOUR fault that that happened???!! It is NOT your fault, it is NO ONES fault. It happened unfortunately, but don't blame yourself!

I don't think IVF treatments are completely worthless in this day and age due to the fact that a lot of unnatural factors have women having trouble to become and sustain a pregnancy nowadays, but I feel sometimes people are just a TAD over the top with.

ut0pia · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by Going Nova

I'm surprised that some posters feel they're in a position to judge someone else's decision to have children... especially given that the mother-to-be in question has both the means and the desire to provide a comfortable life for her offspring. To me, the discussion is not about age and IVF.

I don't draw parallels between breast implants and having children. People don't usually have a biological (chemical) urge to undergo plastic surgery. On the other hand, hormones drive the desire to reproduce. It doesn't have to do with gender roles.

Hormones drive the desire to have sex, and even infertile people have no problems in that area, lol..But to actually give birth??? I don't think that has to do much with hormones...

And, if this thread was about the mother to be in question I honestly see no point of having any discussion at all!! Well, in any case she's not what I'm discussing, I'm speaking in broad terms, like I said to me she could be anybody..but I don't know about anyone else...

spudsmom · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by calico2222

A whim? Really? Do you have any idea what that costs? It's not like picking up a magazine or a candy bar while you're waiting in line at the grocery store. If you don't want kids that is fine, but some people do.

I've debated about posting here, because of my age and the fact that we are actively trying to have kids. I'm 41. I found out I was pregnant last March, and it was a shock! I miscarried. I didn't realize I wanted I child until I found our we were expecting. So we tried. And I got pregnant in August and carried until October. That miscarriage started on our wedding anniversary. Now, I'm worried about trying again. First because I don't know if I could go through the heart break again, and second because I'm worried about what people will think....a 42 yr old giving birth (omg, she couldn't possibly have the energy to take care of a baby, and she will die before the child graduates).

The thing is, those two babies have names. They left two holes in my heart and I cry for them. They were two little babies that didn't make it, and it was my fault. Stale eggs. Yes, I know the risks but my clock didn't start ticking until last year.

And yes, we could adopt. But I don't want to. Which is funny since I was adopted at 5 months in a closed state adoption. I spent my entire life knowing my eyes, my nose, my chin etc didn't come from my parents. I would LOVE to be able to look at another human being and be able to say "that's my hair", or "she has my eyes". Is that selfish? Yes. But I don't apologize for that because that is how I feel.

Bottom line is CONGRATS to them for having their first child. And if they want to have another if is nobody's business. Maybe we should be more concerned about the highschool kids having kids rather than older people that can actually support their children and are mature enough to take care of them.

You shouldn't care what people will think! If you want a baby at any age, that's between you and your spouse.
I think why I had such a reaction to this whole thread in the first place is because of my daughters situation. She had her son at 32 and that boy is the sunshine in my life and I thank God everyday for that gift! My daughter is in a same sex marriage and had never expressed any interest in her younger life to have children. In fact, she used to say "I'd rather have vacations than children."

That was before she met her soul mate. Of course, they can't have children "naturally", and no accidents there. There was a lot of thought and planning and legal hoops to jump through. This wasn't done on a whim, they made sure all of their i's were dotted and t's crossed legally. They used a dear childhood friend of my daughter's for AI. Luckily it worked on the first try and now we have wonderful baby B.

My daughter wanted to carry a baby and when they try for another, her spouse wants to experiance that wonder. They are not opposed to adopting but very much wanted to have a biological child. They are absolutely awesome parents. Maybe not "traditional" but they love and care for my grandbaby. In fact my daughter just quit her job to stay home with B, and luckily they can afford that and feel it's best for B, who is now 14 months old. So you see, my grandbaby didn't come about the "traditional" way and there has been plenty said about being raised by two mommies. Neither they or I give a fig what anyone thinks. It's no one's business and I couldn't even imagine a more loving environment for my grandson. People will stick their nose where it doesn't belong and I can't for the life of me understand why!

natalie_ca · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by spudsmom

I think why I had such a reaction to this whole thread in the first place is because of my daughters situation. She had her son at 32 and that boy is the sunshine in my life and I thank God everyday for that gift!

32 is a whole different thing than 49 or 51!

When a woman hits the age of menopause, she's too old to have kids! Period!

I don't care if the woman can run circles around someone 25 years old. She's still too old to have kids! I'm thinking of the kids, not the woman. It's grossly unfair to the child who will be in the prime of their life when they should be concentrating on college and starting a career, not worrying about a Mother who is in her 70's and likely dependent on him/her for living/care.

My friend having a baby at the age of 49 years old, and contemplating another when she's nearly 51 years old, is purely selfish. I don't care if others disagree with me. It's selfish and places a huge burden on the children she brings into this world....all to satisfy her driving need to have a child. She should have thought of that 15 years ago, not when she's nearly 50 years old!

lady rowan · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

32 is a whole different thing than 49 or 51!

When a woman hits the age of menopause, she's too old to have kids! Period!

I don't care if the woman can run circles around someone 25 years old. She's still too old to have kids! I'm thinking of the kids, not the woman. It's grossly unfair to the child who will be in the prime of their life when they should be concentrating on college and starting a career, not worrying about a Mother who is in her 70's and likely dependent on him/her for living/care.

My friend having a baby at the age of 49 years old, and contemplating another when she's nearly 51 years old, is purely selfish. I don't care if others disagree with me. It's selfish and places a huge burden on the children she brings into this world....all to satisfy her driving need to have a child. She should have thought of that 15 years ago, not when she's nearly 50 years old!

This was what I was trying to explain my view was.

I mean my mom had me when she was 30 and my brother when she was 37, she is 53 now, she is still pretty young in mind and body, but I cannot imagine her wanting to have a child at her age! and if I asked her, she would probably say "Omg I can't even imagine it!" knowing her, or she'd make a sarcastic joke about keeping up with a 16 yr old and 23 yr old who drain her as it is. But, 30's (and even early 40's) is way different than when a woman's body is priming themselves to stop having children in late 40's/early 50's. I'm sorry, but it IS unnatural for a woman to have a child at that age, it was how we were made. JUST because we have advances in technology does not mean it is automatically "okay" to continue to do so, it is still hard to concieve even WITH technology, so I don't understand why this woman is just not happy for the child she is blessed to have. TO ME it is purely selfish to want another one of "her own" when she doesn't even CONSIDER adoption to a potentially equally wonderful child who is in need of a family, if she wants a sibling for her current child or another child. To me it sounds like she doesn't believe an adopted child is equal to her own or good enough for her family or something (maybe it is an assumption, or a possible bad one at that, but it makes me kinda annoyed at her thinking since to me it sounds that way from how the OP describes it).

tara g · Jan 23, 2011

Originally Posted by Carolina

Seeing threads like this really really saddens me... Judging people like that for their maternity choices? Really? What is this? Gee, does anyone need to fit a bill to be accepted? I would thought we were evolved enough by now to be a bit more tolerant with such a personal choice?
How is her choice affecting anybody here who is judging this woman?
I can not grasp this concept, quite frankly, I don't want to.

This branches off a little from the original topic, but why do parents or people who want kids quite often judge someone that DOESN'T want a baby then? The choice for me to not want any kids always ends up with people telling me I have to, I'm selfish, how terrible I am, yadda ya. But my choice has ZERO affect on their lives. :dunno:

Back on the topic though, I still agree with Linda that at her friend's age, it's getting to the point of selfishness. I cant understand how people just dont want to enjoy what they have already. I recall that since I was in elementary school, I worried about how much older my dad was than all the other kids' dads. I always worried he'd die before I got through high school (back in 3rd grade, someone in their 50s was old, when other parents were in their 30s!). I'm 24 now, and he'll be 70 in December.

But honestly, people can do whatever they want. I wont tell someone "you shouldn't have kids." As long as people respect my decisions in life, I tend to respect theirs, even if we don't agree.

My friend's biological clock!

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