WORRIED, Angel having trouble peeing again!

[tobytyler]

Usually someone that would be helping me would kneel in front of him with their hands on his shoulders/sides. Not "holding him down, (he was a good boy) but just kind of letting him know he wasn't going anywhere. This way while they held him in place, I could squeeze the bag, to get it over with quicker. (the tech said to do that so it wouldn't take forever). It actually only took approx. 10 Min's ea. time.

(they marked the bag for me, looks like an inch & 1/2 ea. time)  My only dalima if I don't have an extra set of hands is getting him to stay still & not try to jump down, sense no one would be in front of him. I will need to be squeezing the bag & dealing w/ that long tube, & keep him still at the same time. Plus, I don't know if it's standard, but the needle is an 18 gage. It's huge! Poor baby!

But, the tech said anything smaller would just take to long. I guess I can try to stand in front of him & reach over him to deal w/ the bag, once the needle is in. I just like to try & hold the needle in place

I think that is the key, letting him know he's not going anywhere.  And if it does come out, I would wait until a bit later to finish the rest of the amount that he was supposed to get. 

You might be able to kind of steady him between your knees, I'm not sure how to explain it.  Then you can use both forearms to hold him and then your hands are free.  I got my routine down to under 5 minutes and never squeezed the bag,( it almost sounds like this would be too quick like it would squirt), but I was doing if for several years and had also done it on other kitties.

Yep, those green top needles are big!  I asked about that too and was told the same thing about the time.  I also hated it when the needle poked through the other side

 

 

[madcatlady]

Good lord, it sounds like you've had a rotten time of it, a friend of mine had a kitty who got cystitis and had crystals in his bladder and was told not to feed any dry for at least 6 weeks. My other friend who rescues swears by natural cranberry juice if you can tip a little bit into thier water or get them to drink a bit.

might be worth a try in the long run, probably talk to you vet first! X

 

[angels mommy]

"YIKES!!"  Thank goodness I never did that. The tech told me to make sure I didn't. She said to push trough, but not so much that it came out the other side.

I did hesitate ONCE, & will never do that again. That just hurts him. 

"Kind of a funny picture in my head of water squirting out the hole you poked though while trying to give the fluids!"

I'll have to take a picture of my set up, if my computer will respond!! I was trying to post a picture of Angel I took yesterday laying on my bed all tucked in a blanket after we got home.

His pupils were huge!!  "All drugged out." ...but my computer keeps saying "page not responding." I even brought it here to work w/ me today to see if it worked here. NOPE! but yet, this work computer is fine, so not the internet, but my computer........

 

[angels mommy]

Good lord, it sounds like you've had a rotten time of it, a friend of mine had a kitty who got cystitis and had crystals in his bladder and was told not to feed any dry for at least 6 weeks. My other friend who rescues swears by natural cranberry juice if you can tip a little bit into their water or get them to drink a bit.

might be worth a try in the long run, probably talk to you vet first! X

Thanks! I've never heard of that with cats. I didn't know they can have that. ( or a diluted amount anyway). I will ask about that. I have to call the vet's tomorrow to get the results from the culture they took, just in case. If it isn't bacteria this time, & they don't think it is sense they saw crystals, I'm not sure if it would help if not bacteria??

.........Laurie???? Carolina???

Yes, it was a stressful weekend! Between all of that, I also had a Dr's. (P.A.) appointment (Mon) I thought maybe I had a Hiatal Hernia or something. off & on for a few weeks, would randomly get this pain right up under the arch of my ribs. It felt like when you were a kid & accidentally swallow a hard piece of candy. OUCH! sometimes I would even feel it through to my back.

They think I have Gastritis, so the P.A. I went to likes to do things more holistic, (which is why I like her), so she said she doesn't like them, but suggested that I take Priloset (sp?)

the heart burn stuff, just for a couple of weeks. She thinks it may help the tissue lining that is inflamed & causing me pain. Also L-Glitimine, enzymes & probiotics. (which the latter two, I was already taking). 

SO, it's been a lot to keep up with between the two of us!!

 

[tobytyler]

"YIKES!!"  Thank goodness I never did that. The tech told me to make sure I didn't. She said to push trough, but not so much that it came out the other side.

I did hesitate ONCE, & will never do that again. That just hurts him. 

"Kind of a funny picture in my head of water squirting out the hole you poked though while trying to give the fluids!"

That's exactly what it looks like

.  It will happen, no big deal.  You'll just have to wait a bit and try again.  The vet techs told me it even happens to them! But when you can feel - or see the fluids, that's what you've done.   Also, keep in mind that cats have very little feeling there.  And I don't think there's anything that you can damage, unless you were being really careless which I highly doubt you would be doing. 

I admire cat owners who are willing to do this proceedure, I also think it gains you a bit of respect from the vet/vet techs and shows that you are interested in your cats health and will do anything to improve their health. 

 

[otto]

Cranberry will make the urine more acidic, but it can make the urine TOO acidic and then you get oxalate stones. So don't use any urine acidifier without speaking to the vet.

Giving fluids is just something you learn how to do as you go. I gave fluids to Ootay for four years, and the skill has come in handy for my other cats too. I've never had any help with it. I sit in a chair or on the couch and hold them on my lap. With an 18 needle 150 ml of fluid takes 7 minutes. I never squeezed the bag, I never trusted that method for some reason. Rub the spot the fluids are flowing into, and lift the skin, to help the fluids disperse, this reduces the discomfort of the skin being too tight.

I've also pushed the needle too far and the fluid was coming out the other side. Also there were times the needle had slipped out and I didn't notice until releasing the cat and finding a wet lap. There was the time I hung the bag wrong so I couldn't see the numbers. And how many times have I stuck myself with those sharp sharp needles!:lol3:

You and Angel will do great. Keep us posted on him.

 

[angels mommy]

That's exactly what it looks like

.  It will happen, no big deal.  You'll just have to wait a bit and try again.  The vet techs told me it even happens to them! But when you can feel - or see the fluids, that's what you've done.   Also, keep in mind that cats have very little feeling there.  And I don't think there's anything that you can damage, unless you were being really careless which I highly doubt you would be doing. 

I admire cat owners who are willing to do this procedure, I also think it gains you a bit of respect from the vet/vet techs and shows that you are interested in your cats health and will do anything to improve their health. 

I never thought I could do something like that, but when your baby needs it, you do whatever you have to!

Otto, I wish Angel would sit on my lap, but he has never been a lap kitty. He is one independent big boy!  He only lets me hold him for a few seconds, to a couple of minutes at a time,

then he's like, "let me down!"  So I have to wait for him to be snuggled up against me at night to get in some real cuddle time. (No wonder I don't want to get up in the morning!)

(& yes, I don't think I will be trying the cranberry juice, don't want to take any chances. Besides, while he's on fluids, he hardly drinks his water at all, but is usually a good water drinker).

 

[tobytyler]

It is such a handy skill to have, and it will get easier as you do it more.  I recently had to have my 13 yo Cricket's teeth cleaned.  I asked the vet if I should bump up his hydration prior to anesthesia, and so Cricket had two fluid sessions in the days leading up to his proceedure.  And now I have a youngster with a cold, and have the fluids on hand just in case I see he's getting dehydrated. 

otto, thanks for reminding me of those needle sticks...

 

[angels mommy]

I agree, & I stuck myself the first time I did it back in August. Yea, those are pretty thick needles!!!!

Thanks for telling me about moving the skin around to help disperse the fluids. I am always scared to let the skin around the needle move, because I don't want it to pop out.

Plus, I feel like the needle moving around would hurt. ?? ...Like when we have one in out arm, before they tape it down.  ??  I guess it hurts like that to us, because it's in a vein, & his is not.

Still..

I was a little worried this morning because he hadn't used the litter box before I left to go to work, but he was going a few times last night before bed. He just hadn't gone over night, or

this morning. I felt his bladder & it felt fine. SO, I am thinking he is just all peed out sense his fluids at the vet's Monday. He is due tonight. They have me doing every other day.

I may run home this afternoon to check on him. I don't live close to work, but, may still do it just for my piece of mind, sense there were crystals this time.

.........Okay, I just called the vet's, just to ask them. They said he is fine as long as he's not straining, which he's not, & he was going last night. Also that his belly felt okay, (I mixed water in his food)

& he's getting fluids tonight. So, I think it's just as I thought, Just all peed out!  I think he will be fine until I get home. I am off at 5:00.

 

[tobytyler]

That's tough when you have to be away from them.  I'm also a worried hovering mom

 when they are sick.  You are all going to be fine and Angel is a very lucky kitty to have you for his mum!

 

[ldg]

Aw hun....

And yeah, good to know about dispersing the fluids. Spooky gets a bubble, and sometimes it dribbles out.... .

And I'm SO sorry to hear about Sheba. RIP, little angel. :heart2:


Also, while I'm glad you're going to skip the Cranberry juice (there IS stuff in cranberry that is not good for kitties), I DO recommend getting pH test strips if you think you can stick one in his pee stream when he's peeing. I can with Spooky, no problem. I'm using 500mg - 750mg of methionine (an acidifier - an amino acid found in meat (which is one of the reasons a raw diet is naturally acidifying)) daily with Spooky, keeping her urine pH at 6.25 - 6.5. When - and if - you can keep an eye on his urine pH (even if it's just every few days you're able to test), IF it's not in that range, you might want to chat with the vet about using methionine. I just bought NOW capsules and sprinkle it on her food.

And I also think it's a good idea to skip the kibble altogether. (Though you are using the EVO turkey, right? It really shouldn't be a trigger - it has very little carbs, and turkey has the most methionine of any meat). Anyway, the point of my story is that there may be no trigger for THIS event - it may simply be that he still had some sandy struvites in his bladder - and THOSE increase the urine pH and make more struvites. So unless he gets completely cleared out (which you can keep an eye on with the urine pH test strips), the problem will keep coming back, no matter what you do as re: stress and/or diet. This is what's happening with Spooky - we need to give her more aggressive fluids and for longer than before, because the sandy stuff never got completely cleared out.

 

[angels mommy]

That's tough when you have to be away from them.  I'm also a worried hovering mom

 when they are sick.  You are all going to be fine and Angel is a very lucky kitty to have you for his mum!

Thanks Toby, "YUP! I'm a hover mother too!"

 Can't help it.he's my only baby, & love him sooo much!! - Although if he keeps this up, he's gonna have to get a job!

It's tough being a single Meowmy!

 

[angels mommy]

Aw hun....

And yeah, good to know about dispersing the fluids. Spooky gets a bubble, and sometimes it dribbles out.... .

And I'm SO sorry to hear about Sheba.

RIP, little angel.

Also, while I'm glad you're going to skip the Cranberry juice (there IS stuff in cranberry that is not good for kitties), I DO recommend getting pH test strips if you think you can stick one in his pee stream when he's peeing. I can with Spooky, no problem. I'm using 500mg - 750mg of methionine (an acidifier - an amino acid found in meat (which is one of the reasons a raw diet is naturally acidifying)) daily with Spooky, keeping her urine pH at 6.25 - 6.5. When - and if - you can keep an eye on his urine pH (even if it's just every few days you're able to test), IF it's not in that range, you might want to chat with the vet about using methionine. I just bought NOW capsules and sprinkle it on her food.
And I also think it's a good idea to skip the kibble altogether.

(Though you are using the EVO turkey, right? It really shouldn't be a trigger - it has very little carbs, and turkey has the most methionine of any meat). Anyway, the point of my story is that there may be no trigger for THIS event - it may simply be that he still had some sandy struvites in his bladder - and THOSE increase the urine pH and make more struvites. So unless he gets completely cleared out (which you can keep an eye on with the urine pH test strips), the problem will keep coming back, no matter what you do as re: stress and/or diet. This is what's happening with Spooky - we need to give her more aggressive fluids and for longer than before, because the sandy stuff never got completely cleared out.

Hi Laurie,  I think i may still have some old pH strips from years ago when I worked at the co-op. I will have to check. I don't think those will go bad. LOL!  As for the kibble, no, I was using the Natures Variety Limited Ing. Turkey, but after that ran out & all of the good follow up visits, & over a month passed, I decided to try the Natural Balance Duck & Green Pea again. He had only had that for a couple of weeks when this all came back, so.....

  I am going to the Natural food pet store this week to try & find a treat/snack he can have.  We've had a sample of some freeze dried beef he liked, don't remember what brand though. (was actually for dogs, but the staff said it was fine for cats). I just had to cut up the pieces, because they were a little large. I also sometimes would put a little warm water on them to soften them up.

I get paid tomorrow, so will have to head over there after work. I also have to check calories. Because my big boy gained 2 lbs in 2 months!

He weighs 16lbs now! I want to get him back down to 14lbs. The vet looked up Bravo Patties on a site that had all the calories protein, carbs etc.. & said for weight loss, he could have as much as one & 1/4 a pattie a day. That's about what he was eating. Approx. 1/2 a pattie at each meal, so a pattie a day. Sometimes a smidgen more, if he was still hungry. I think the little bit of dry (approx 2 tbs/day between meals to snack on)  was what gave him the extra calories.

After reading the discussion on Oakshimmers thread about the sardines, I was thinking, maybe Angel's not really still hungry, per say, but likes the dry for a different texture? Makes sense to me! I have been looking for some clean ones in just water, & not farm raised, like one of you said,

but haven't seen any yet. I mentioned it to the vet, & she said as long as I subtract the difference from his food if I do, it was o.k.

I don't know if I will find any fresh water, but can find some in just water. IF he would eat it. I think I would have to cut them in pieces.

 

[angels mommy]

Well, I did it!  I gave Angel his fluids last night by myself. ("I a big girl now"

100_3596.JPG

• angels mommy
• Nov 1, 2012

This is the picture from Monday after the vet's.

100_3592.JPG

• angels mommy
• Oct 30, 2012

 

[otto]

Well done!!!

No of course Angel isn't spoiled, he's LOVED. (and, he would tell you, Entitled)

 

[ldg]

Well done!!!
No of course Angel isn't spoiled, he's LOVED. (and, he would tell you, Entitled)

YAY!!!!

 

[angels mommy]

"Thanks guys!"  Yes, VERY Loved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 I'm sure if he could talk he'd say, "Moooom, you've already kissed me 100xs today, stop already!" 

 

[angels mommy]

Here's a picture of how I set up the bathroom.

100_3598.JPG

• angels mommy
• Nov 4, 2012

Here's how I get Angel to stay in place.(All tthe rice packs!)  Friday he hissed at me twice!!   No hissing today, but he let me know he wasn't happy about it.

100_3611.JPG

• angels mommy
• Nov 4, 2012

Finally was able to get a pH stick under him yesterday afternoon. Looks like he's good!

100_3604.JPG

• angels mommy
• Nov 4, 2012

 

[tobytyler]

Wow, that's a puurrrfect setup

  The enclosed space of the bathroom comes in handy for many medical treatments. 

I love the rice pack idea, I wish I would have known that when I was giving fluids to Toby

 

[otto]

Awww..lookit him the sweet boy! That's for when he gets his fluids?

Mazy actually TELLS me now when she is going to go down to the boxes to pee, in case I want to stick a strip under her, or a test tube or something. She doesn't know WHY I do these things, but she does know it is important to me, and so she lets me know.